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29 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Hey, I love Sam, but he's injury prone, hasn't shown consistency, and lacks that eye of the tiger.

If we don't get Lawrence we must get a starting quarterback either to replace Sam or compete with him, push him, make him better.

The point is, unless Sam has an amazing last 10 games this season, it's too big a risk to just ride him out and not leverage the best QB since Elway to get a legitimate veteran NFL replacement.

SAR I

Sam isn't injury prone. He got sick last year and didn't miss a game after that and got rag dolled on a sack. Honestly, I don't know why a sack like that didn't draw a flag. It was excessive. 

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6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Just saying there is a third scenario.  One where Lawrence won't play here and Darnold isn't our future.  And in that case, any trade down for a haul of picks must also include a bonafide NFL starter. 

My opinion, that's the most likely scenario.  So the sooner we start thinking about what other team's starting quarterback we want, the sooner we can have meaningful dialog.

SAR I

Matt Ryan is nobodies future. 

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3 minutes ago, ChuckkieB said:

If the Jets end up with the #1 pick, it likely means that Darnold was unable to raise his play enough to propel him to franchise QB status here, and the Jets would NEVER pass up drafting Lawrence under that scenario.  In fact, there is no scenario in which they would ever trade the #1 pick.

If Darnold lights it up, they Jets won't end up with the #1 pick, and if he poops the bed, they'll get it and draft Lawrence.  The Darnold decision is going to basically make itself.

Very ******* cool avatar picture, man. 👍

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1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

Sam isn't injury prone. He got sick last year and didn't miss a game after that and got rag dolled on a sack. Honestly, I don't know why a sack like that didn't draw a flag. It was excessive. 

And Herndon was right there and did nothing except walk back to the huddle.

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40 minutes ago, SAR I said:

There's another line of thinking that says Lawrence doesn't want to play here and Darnold isn't the man.  In that case we need to use the pick to leverage someone else's starting quarterback in a trade.  You have to look at it from a standpoint that no free agent is going to want to come here and no great college prospect either.  So the only way to get a quality starter is an established starter on another team who is looking to prove himself for his second act.

Matt Ryan
Nick Foles
Matthew Stafford
Derek Carr
Kirk Cousins
Carson Wentz
Jimmy Garropolo
Ryan Tannehill

Something like that.  So we get the typical haul for the #1 in the form of multiple 1's and 2's and we also get their established starter who can step in right away and play.  The Jets target the starter they want, approach that team, and call the shots.  But it must include a bonafide NFL starter or we're dead.

SAR I

Theres not one single line of thinking that TL doesnt want to play here.  Just a bunch of negative Jets fans thinking its just a "jetsy thing" that he wont.  Not one word from him.  

There are people who think that Fields will be as good or the better NFL QB over TL.  If JD feels that way, then the trade down is an option just as it is if he, like many, believes that Sam @ 23 isnt done and believe that with the right HC to lead the way, a better OL and some talent at WR he can still be a top QB.

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

None of the QB's you listed will be traded. You are thinking the other GM is stupid and why would you want Wentz, Files, or Cousins. They aren't that good. 

From a GM perspective, they get to move on from their older quarterback and get a reset on their careers and the franchise.  It's a way for a GM to keep his job and potentially make a legendary move by bringing in the next John Elway.

From a Jets perspective, we get a haul to fill many of the 28 spots on the roster occupied by guys on 1 year deals, especially the skill positions like WR and CB and Edge.  

If the Jets had, say, Matthew Stafford or Nick Foles on this team right now, even in its injured/traded/opted condition, we'd be 3-3.  

Clearly, the best scenario is that Darnold finds his game and we can trade the pick knowing we have a franchise quarterback.  But that looks unlikely unfortunately.  So the next-best thing is to trade the pick for a haul, rebuild the bad roster in light-speed, and get someone else's bonafide starter.  Kills all birds with one stone.  Having a veteran, dependable, quality NFL starting quarterback is good for this young team, gives them leadership, gives them a chance of winning some games and building their confidence.

SAR I

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Just now, UntouchableCrew said:

If we have the top pick we're taking Lawrence. Entertaining other ideas is a waste of time.

I hope your wrong It's the Jet's though, so your probably right

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2 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

No amount of draft picks is worth it. You stay there and take TL.

Would the chiefs trade Mahomes for 3 1st rd picks? Hell no.

He's a proven commodity surrounded by top talent. No comparison. To me,anyway.

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1 hour ago, genot said:

I think we can win with with Sam. Look at what he did the last 10 games last year with mediocre talent,at best Are we judging him on his bad play the first three games this year. Hogan,berrios, and an invisible TE?

And that cross eyed f#$% Gase!

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23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

From a GM perspective, they get to move on from their older quarterback and get a reset on their careers and the franchise.  It's a way for a GM to keep his job and potentially make a legendary move by bringing in the next John Elway.

From a Jets perspective, we get a haul to fill many of the 28 spots on the roster occupied by guys on 1 year deals, especially the skill positions like WR and CB and Edge.  

If the Jets had, say, Matthew Stafford or Nick Foles on this team right now, even in its injured/traded/opted condition, we'd be 3-3.  

Clearly, the best scenario is that Darnold finds his game and we can trade the pick knowing we have a franchise quarterback.  But that looks unlikely unfortunately.  So the next-best thing is to trade the pick for a haul, rebuild the bad roster in light-speed, and get someone else's bonafide starter.  Kills all birds with one stone.  Having a veteran, dependable, quality NFL starting quarterback is good for this young team, gives them leadership, gives them a chance of winning some games and building their confidence.

SAR I

I have a few friends who are Philly fans, some family down their as well. They all are not sold on Wentz being the QB for the eagles. Foles also has not had a good career other than the SB. I have no idea why you want another teams trash. This is the same as bringing in Bell except you are doing it at QB. Also, we have not had a proper 3 seasons to evaluate Darnold so nobody can possibly know if he is or isn't the guy. You can't make a judgement when he has nothing to throw to except TE and RB's his whole career unless the TE is Gronk and the RB is Barry Sanders. We really don't know so how you can possibly know is really unbelievable. 

The smart thing is to find out if Sam is your FQB unless you can get Lawrence. I honestly don't even know if Lawrence will be the guy. If anyone can break him, it's us. 

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

If Jets pass on Lawrence then the franchise deserves to be contracted.

Our ownership alone is reason for contraction.

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

I agree that the roster has been sh-t and it has impeded Darnold.  No question about it.  But there's another side of his play that has nothing to do with the receivers or the coaching and has everything to do with retaining what he's been taught.  He's making mistakes that he should have experienced, processed, and corrected in high school or college. 

Let's not turn this into another Darnold thread.  Let's just leave it at there is enough doubt that it warrants exploring another option either through the draft or someone else's starter.

SAR I

Getting an old QB to be on this team makes no sense for the Jets or the old QB. This is a Mac move you are drawing up here. We will suck noatter who the QB is this year. Not a playoff team and won't be for a long time, probably 3 or 4 years due to all the he's that need filling. We need an entire team. I rather do it with Sam than something some other team is happy to get rid of.

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1 hour ago, genot said:

What do we do about C,RG, WR,TE, CB, ILB, EDGE,etc,etc. You get my point. 

Address them with other picks and acknowledge that this will take time, while hopefully having a great player at the most important position in place?

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Gase is the one who will make the decision and he clearly is impervious to what other people think.  So trading out of the spot is definitely plausible.  

The tank isn't for Lawrence; it's for the haul of picks.  We have 28 players on 1 year deals and we are the least desirable destination in the NFL.  If this draft replenishes us profoundly we can shave 2 years off the rebuild and get back to the playoffs far faster.

SAR I

Not without a QB we can't.

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2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Address them with other picks and acknowledge that this will take time, while hopefully having a great player at the most important position in place?

Hopefully having a great player. Way too risky when we have all these other needs. They said that about Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf,Tim Couch. The list goes on and on..

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47 minutes ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

No amount of draft picks is worth it. You stay there and take TL.

Would the chiefs trade Mahomes for 3 1st rd picks? Hell no.

Lawrence is pat mahoomes now i see, a guy that was not drafted until the 10th pick.

The overrating of this player is astounding.  He may be worth the #1 pick (for me that depends on how he plays in the college playoffs this year).

 

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

Right now, I'm leaning in this direction.

The haul would be MASSIVE.  If executed properly, the best influx of young talent we've ever had on this team instead of putting it all on the shoulders of a kid.

Plus; you could still be in play for Fields/Lance if that was your preference or yeah, float something for Ryan or sign Jameis Winston, etc.

 

Everbody seems to be forgetting about Fields.  No, he doesn't appear to be on the level of Lawrence, but he looks like an excellent prospect. IMO if the Jets only have 1-2 wins, means Darnold is done in NY

Winston?  Oh man, that would be fun.  At one time I thought Winston was going to be the next great one.  Like Mayfield he just doesn't seem to be able to get the stupid out of him.

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3 minutes ago, genot said:

Hopefully having a great player. Way too risky when we have all these other needs. They said that about Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf,Tim Couch. The list goes on and on..

Indeed, players can bust.

Again, I'm not even saying your strategy is a bad one, just that no GM is likely to enact it when a Lawrence type prospect is available and your team doesn't have a QB.

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If you get the first pick and Lawrence declares you draft him and try to get a 2nd round pick for Darnold. You can't saddle a new coach with Year 4 of Darnold, that's going to limit whose interested in the job by a huge margin. A new coach is going to want to come here with his guy, and who better to give them than Lawrence?

That's not even taking other things into account like Darnold's upcoming extension, injury concerns, and quite frankly mediocre play on the field.

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Let me put it this way. Would you rather have TL,or. Darnold,Ridley, Creed Humphrey, Deonte Brown, Caleb Farley, and an impact ilb and edge rusher. 

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No way in hell would I trade the #1 pick Trevor Lawrence for Matt Ryan who has won nothing in the NFL and multiple "what if" draft picks. 

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5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Indeed, players can bust.

Again, I'm not even saying your strategy is a bad one, just that no GM is likely to enact it when a Lawrence type prospect is available and your team doesn't have a QB.

Im not down on Sam the way some are. Im not even thinking his first three games this year. It was a complete shi.show as far as what he was working with. Last year coming back from mono he strung together a bunch of good games with marginal talent. I think Sam needs some talent that can manage to stay healthy and work with him game in and game out. 

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1 hour ago, Darnold Schwarzenegger said:

No amount of draft picks is worth it. You stay there and take TL.

Would the chiefs trade Mahomes for 3 1st rd picks? Hell no.

Mahomes is a proven player.

Lawrence is a prospect.

Huge differences.  

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38 minutes ago, genot said:

Im not down on Sam the way some are. Im not even thinking his first three games this year. It was a complete shi.show as far as what he was working with. Last year coming back from mono he strung together a bunch of good games with marginal talent. I think Sam needs some talent that can manage to stay healthy and work with him game in and game out. 

Doesn't matter the degree to which you feel Darnold may still have some upside.  It's been 3 years, he's never played a full season.  He's statistically been one of the worst QBs all three years.  Job on the line, you're not passing on the "best prospect since Luck/Manning/Elway."

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7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Doesn't matter the degree to which you feel Darnold may still have some upside.  It's been 3 years, he's never played a full season.  He's statistically been one of the worst QBs all three years.  Job on the line, you're not passing on the "best prospect since Luck/Manning/Elway."

What if we do it your way and TL isn't the second coming. Where does that leave us.  We'll be dead and buried before the Jet's win 10 games

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18 minutes ago, genot said:

What if we do it your way and TL isn't the second coming. Where does that leave us.  We'll be dead and buried before the Jet's win 10 games

We'll be dead in the water for at least 3 to 5 more years.

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20 minutes ago, genot said:

What if we do it your way and TL isn't the second coming. Where does that leave us.  We'll be dead and buried before the Jet's win 10 games

I mean, it leaves us with another 2021 1st round pick, and 2 2022 1st round picks.

It seems like your struggling to differentiate between your point about a strategic decision to add a lot of talent to the team, and my point that no GM, who's job is on the line, without a QB, is going to pass on Lawrence, if he continues to be considered a "generational prospect."

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3 hours ago, SAR I said:

1st rounders in 2021, 2022
6th rounders in 2021, 2022
Matt Ryan

SAR I

I don’t know whether to laugh or call the FBI

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1 hour ago, genot said:

Let me put it this way. Would you rather have TL,or. Darnold,Ridley, Creed Humphrey, Deonte Brown, Caleb Farley, and an impact ilb and edge rusher. 

TL

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So let’s say we are picking 1st and the Falcons are picking 3rd, what would it take for me not to lose faith in this organization for not taking Lawrence?

3rd pick, 2nd round 2021, 3rd round 2021, 1st round 2022, and Calvin Ridley.

Im not sure if I would do that but that’s the break even point for me. I’d leave it up to the new coach to decide who he wants at QB.

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Lawrence is pat mahoomes now i see, a guy that was not drafted until the 10th pick.

The overrating of this player is astounding.  He may be worth the #1 pick (for me that depends on how he plays in the college playoffs this year).

 

All I was trying to say is that you draft the franchise qb. You don't trade him away.

No amount of draft picks is worth trading away pat mahomes. No amount of draft Capital is worth trading away Trevor lawrence. Thats just my opinion.

Not sure what you need to see from him in the college playoffs that he hasn't already accomplished in his previous 2 years at clemson.

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