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Josh Allen vs Quinnen Williams

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Teach me, oh wizard of football knowledge.  

You've obviously have an "agenda" with this. 

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

If that rumor really was true it is definitely a black mark for Douglas.

I think he was so early in the job that making a move that big was a bit of a reach in his mind but the signs were there already that Quinnen was nothing special.

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Is josh Allen trying to lose? 
 

Big Head GIF by memecandy

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5 minutes ago, Larz said:

Is josh Allen trying to lose? 
 

Big Head GIF by memecandy

Which one ? :)

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It’s difficult to fathom that damage that Mike Maccagnan caused the Jets franchise. There’s some blame to be spread around for the current state of the team but Maccagnan is by far most at fault. 

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Just now, Saul Goodman said:

It’s difficult to fathom that damage that Mike Maccagnan caused the Jets franchise. There’s some blame to be spread around for the current state of the team but Maccagnan is by far most at fault. 

Difficult? Look at the roster and it's easily apparent :)

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Once again, as much as I despise Mccagnan and consider him one of the worst GMs in the history of the modern NFL, I'm not going to condemn him for the Quinnen Williams pick over Josh Allen.  Q was considered a can't miss by many of the "experts". Someone who could stuff the run and also rush from the inside like Aron Donald.  Josh Allen was also highly regarded but he came from a less prestigious program although he did put up good numbers in the SEC.  It was a close call. 

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2 minutes ago, TMAC said:

Once again, as much as I despise Mccagnan and consider him one of the worst GMs in the history of the modern NFL, I'm not going to condemn him for the Quinnen Williams pick over Josh Allen.  Q was considered a can't miss by many of the "experts". Someone who could stuff the run and also rush from the inside like Aron Donald.  Josh Allen was also highly regarded but he came from a less prestigious program although he did put up good numbers in the SEC.  It was a close call. 

 

So many great players fell to us.  4 out of 5 years we got the best player in the draft.  It's a wonder why Macc didn't get us 3 Super Bowls.

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As sh!tty as this season has been and with so many other things to quibble about, the Q attacks are amusing (and I wanted Allen over Q last year ). Let's set aside that Allen's position produces more sacks than Williams' position. 

They both have the same # of sacks this year

PFF in 2020

Allen: 72.5

Q: 71.2

 

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2 minutes ago, TMAC said:

Once again, as much as I despise Mccagnan and consider him one of the worst GMs in the history of the modern NFL, I'm not going to condemn him for the Quinnen Williams pick over Josh Allen.  Q was considered a can't miss by many of the "experts". Someone who could stuff the run and also rush from the inside like Aron Donald.  Josh Allen was also highly regarded but he came from a less prestigious program although he did put up good numbers in the SEC.  It was a close call. 

The warning signs where there.  Bama kicks the shi* out of everyone an with such a stacked team some guys looked unreal because they have everything going their way.  Other teams are down by 21 after the 1st quarter and pass all game.

He was a non entity in the nat champ game vs clemson.

He had one year of production even then he had 8 sacks and a career total of 10.

On top of the the Jets did not need a DT badly and did need a rusher badly and we just went through the whole scenario with leo williams.

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13 minutes ago, maury77 said:

As sh!tty as this season has been and with so many other things to quibble about, the Q attacks are amusing (and I wanted Allen over Q last year ). Let's set aside that Allen's position produces more sacks than Williams' position. 

They both have the same # of sacks this year

PFF in 2020

Allen: 72.5

Q: 71.2

 

 

lol PFF.

You do realize that interior DL get inflated grades because they put run stuffing on equal footing with pass-rushing?  You see Nose Tackles get grades of 85+ all the time. 

The same argument that defends QW for playing a "different position" overly values him for stopping the run.  Run stuffing just doesn't matter in the NFL in 2020.  Like, at all.  The Jets have been one of the better run stuffing teams in the league over the  last decade.  Where has that gotten us?  When you take a DT # 3 overall, he needs to be a pass rusher.  Period.  QW just isn't that.

Meanwhile, PFF has no gradient system in place to establish positional importance as part of their scores, which completely limits its credibility.

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58 minutes ago, bitonti said:

2020 Josh Allen 2 sacks

2020 Q williams 2 sacks

 

Josh Allen has actually missed the last 2 weeks with a knee injury 

I doubt OP knew that or even watches the mighty Jacksonville defense 

 

These same people who are loving Allen now and trashing QW were bashing him before the 2019 draft as having “no pass rush moves” “he just runs around the tackle in his tape”

 

meanwhile

442320C4-7CCD-44D0-B4D8-91179FB46618.thumb.jpeg.a3833a934f6e22fdcc1163af497537ad.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Allen has appeared on 56 % of the snaps for Jacksonville.

As for the dropping into coverage aspect, I really don't care.  Both were billed as pass rushers, and only one of the 2 is doing it with any consistency.

Allen had an excellent rookie year and has come back to earth this year.  So by consistency I guess you’re ignoring 2020?

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I still don't get it.  We desperately needed an outside pass rusher, and he was there to take.  But again, we went for the defensive tackle.

The stupidity is endless.  

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We’re at an all-time low. I don’t care what anyone says. 

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2 hours ago, Pac said:

Now do one for this year.  When Q isn't missing games or playing with a high ankle sprain.

Garbage thread.

So far this season they're playing about the same with similar PFF grades (72.5 for Allen, 71.2 for Williams).

QW is in the Top 11 at his position in the NFL in Tackles, Assists, Sacks and Forced Fumbles.  I think he's making progress in Year 2.

 

1910474301_ScreenShot2020-10-22at2_26_28PM.thumb.png.569488ffa91686b372dea65c210cd456.png

138667095_ScreenShot2020-10-22at2_27_10PM.thumb.png.6e6db9c3c168d45242cf7161c5152670.png

 

 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He disappears as much this year as he did last year.  Must have been one hell of an ankle sprain!

Agreed. Allen disappears most of the game. He makes a few big plays here and there then he’s invisible. He also plays a completely different position, one that should get him better stats. 
 

Allen 2020 stats •

Solo tackles - 4

ast tackles - 3

sacks - 2

ff - 2

 

Q 2020 stats •

solo tackles - 12

ast tackles - 12

sacks - 2

Yes

ff - 1

Allen is nothing special, he sure as hell isn’t the next LT like some of you guys were saying. 

 

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3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Can you tell us the snap count for each and how many times they drop into coverage? Yes, GW has Q dropping into coverage and plays him about 50% of the defensive snaps.

Josh Allen is and edge player - how many double teams has he occupied in the middle of the line? They don't even play the same position. It's like comparing a linebacker to a corner back.

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https://www.bengals.com/news/matchup-of-the-game-emerging-jonah-williams-faces-the-myles-marker-again
 

Williams is coming off what Pro Football Focus charted as his best game. Playing primarily against Colts defensive end Justin Houston, the savvy-10-year-strong-as-an-ox rusher whom came into last Sunday's game sixth on the active sacks list, Williams allowed no pressures on 42 pass snaps. Houston is still sixth on the list.

According to PFF, that effort moved Williams up to No. 24 among tackles for blocking and allowed pressures. That puts him a slot ahead of Browns rookie left tackle Jedrick Willis, Jr., his old Alabama teammate Cleveland took with the 10th pick this year. That's two slots ahead of Buccaneers rookie right tackle Tristan Wirfs, this year's 13th pick. The only 2020 rookie tackle ahead of him in the PFF rankings is the Niners' Colton McKivitz, a guy that has taken all of 14 snaps.

And Williams has allowed just one sack, PFF says, while Willis has allowed three and veteran left tackles such as the 49ers' Trent Williams (four) and the Eagles' Jason Peters (three, thanks in large part to the Bengals' Carl Lawson) and the Bucs' Donovan Smith (three) have allowed more.

"He's getting better every time he steps on the field," says Bengals offensive coordinator Brian Callahan. "He's banking the experiences of every one of these pass rushers he faces. He's improving his play speed, his technique. All the things you'd expect him to improve. He's been a very solid performer."

 

Callahan knows something about offensive line play. Bill Callahan, his father, has been one of this century's NFL offensive line gurus and is the architect of Cleveland's No. 1 rushing attack as the Browns offensive line coach.

Brian Callahan has watched Williams pick up something new every game. A hand move here. A counter move there with a pass set. Maybe a counter-counter move with the angle.

In his debut against Chargers Pro Bowler Joey Bosa, PFF had him for three pressures on 45 passes. In that first game in Cleveland he allowed just one hit on Burrow and three hurries on 72 pass sets. And Garrett's game-changing play, a goal-line sack and strip, came inside.

Williams gave up one of the eight sacks in Philly, but came back the next week and helped shut down the speedy and athletic Jags rusher Josh Allen with just one pressure out of 41 snaps. He didn't allow one of the seven sacks in Baltimore and allowed just one hit of Burrow during the Ravens' blitz that occurred on nearly 60 percent of the 39 drop-backs.

"I think one of the reasons he's learning so quickly is because of the caliber of rushers he's facing," Brian Callahan says. "Those are things you learn the more and more you play as you start to see all these guys and the repertoires of their rush moves and he gets to cement his counter attacks. That part has been fun to watch. His growth has been good for us. We've gotten better and better at pass protection as the year has gone on."

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why doesn't QW have more TFL's than Josh Allen?  That's supposed to be his territory and Allen has him beat.  

Allen is a situational EDGE rusher and QW is supposed to be a pass-rushing DT.  They're both supposed to disrupt the QB, and that only shows up in the numbers of one of them.  I'm not compared a hockey player to a track runner here.

Thanks for the contribution to the discussion!

Dude, he EATS space and takes on multiple double stacks per game!

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Agreed. Allen disappears most of the game. He makes a few big plays here and there then he’s invisible. He also plays a completely different position, one that should get him better stats. 
 
Allen 2020 stats •
Solo tackles - 4
ast tackles - 3
sacks - 2
ff - 2
 
Q 2020 stats •
solo tackles - 12
ast tackles - 12
sacks - 2
Yes
ff - 1
Allen is nothing special, he sure as hell isn’t the next LT like some of you guys were saying. 
 


Never compared him to LT, lol. FFS.

I merely am arguing he would have been the superior pick to QW.

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3 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

It’s difficult to fathom that damage that Mike Maccagnan caused the Jets franchise. There’s some blame to be spread around for the current state of the team but Maccagnan is by far most at fault. 

Mac had an incredible run of wasted draft picks and wasted cash.  Unprecedented, really.

 

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58 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Josh Allen is and edge player - how many double teams has he occupied in the middle of the line? They don't even play the same position. It's like comparing a linebacker to a corner back.

It's not me comparing them. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


Never compared him to LT, lol. FFS.

I merely am arguing he would have been the superior pick to QW.

 

I guess you don’t remember saying that J Williams was never going to play OT and shouldn’t be drafted till later round because he’s a OG and I have no idea what I’m taking about because I only watched the bowls games. J Williams is who the Jets should of drafted because their Oline was and still is complete sh*t. 

Q has been just as good if not better this year and Allen nothing special. He’s pushed out of more the half the plays or gets to the QB after the ball is gone. I thought he was the next LT a once in a lifetime unstoppable defensive force, a can’t miss, a game changing superstar that was going to get the Jets to a SB. 
 

I agree Q was a stupid pick because the Jets needed to protect the QB and neither Q or Allen can do that. 
 

I was right about Gase and the worthless Red Flag Hobbit, I was right about Allen, I was right about Williams, I was wrong about Metcalf but wanted AJ Brown instead who is still good. 
 

 

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10 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said:

The minute after he went safety-safety in the first 2 rounds he should’ve been terminated

Maye over Cook for Christ’s sake

Nope. The minute he drafted Hackenberg.

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No, cmon, if the Jets drafted Allen he would be playing like Vernon Gholtson and whoever selected Q he would be playing like Donald.

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21 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

This pisses me off. I don't understand how I could see this happening before the draft and this guy didn't. It was our BIGGEST ******* NEED

Just like many GMs are c*nts when it comes to drafting a QB in the 1st Rd, you whiff and unless your name is Elway, you’re done.

Much higher bust rate with so called Pass Rushers coming out of college just like QBs.  Consenus and Mel Kiper had Q Williams as the safest pick....done deal for that Stumblebum moron Maccagnan.  Could have actually had a computer making EVERY pick or even some sharp Fantasy Football kids making the pucks and the Jet Roster would look 100x better than what Maccagnan and Idzik did.

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