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A real catch-22 for Jets fans the next month or so

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Even if all the young players on O play well the defense is like a sieve and will lose all the games

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34 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Best case scenario, Mims is a STUD, we start scoring more points, Darnold even starts clicking but the defense can't hold up their end & we keep squeaking out losses. We KNOW the defense sucks. 

this is what i was thinking.  i would love to lose some games 35-31.

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Mims is a pipe dream at this point. And we are saving Perine for his second or third contract. We don't want to overwhelm him and stunt his growth. 

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Im hoping for wins because 

a) I want to see these players who will be on our team next year actually show they are good 

b) I don’t want the 1 pick and forced to take Trevor. Build around sam with a top 5 pick

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Perfectly content with all those guys looking good and having a top 5-10 pick still. Better that way actually. 

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4 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

Perfectly content with all those guys looking good and having a top 5-10 pick still. Better that way actually. 

Unless it means we keep Gase. And that’s the problem. 

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I don't know if a couple of guys playing well will be enough to change some of these games from losses to wins. I'll always root for the jets in the moment but unfortunately, I think for the long term, its better if the jets get this first pick and start over with TL. I like Sam but this franchise completely screwed him. he'll get another chance elsewhere, have a chance to pick where he can go and maybe he can turn things around in a more competent atmosphere. By next year Sam will be in year 4 and the jets will have to decide if they want to pick up a 5th year option. With the current state of this team, its better just to hit the reset button and give this franchise some more time with a cheap, high upside QB vs a QB that cannot stay on the field with an expiring contract. 

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2 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

In my mind, a dream scenario would be getting the #1 pick after finishing with a 1-15 record and having many of our key players look good (Darnold, Becton, Mims

Teams with Qb, wr1 and Lt playing good football generally dont go 1-15

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We'll stumble into a couple close games the remainder of the season.  Maybe even win a game.  But it won't be because the team is playing well.  It'll be because the other team we're facing plays horrifically bad, and we just happen to not be quite as bad on that day. 

Not one of the Jets' remaining games will leave the fans entertained or remotely satisfied with their performance.  Not one.  Even the '76 Buccaneers (0-14) had 3 games decided by 5 points or less, after all.  Do you think anyone was entertained when they lost 14-9 to the Bills or 13-10 to the Seahawks that year?  Of course not. 

That's what we can expect out of the Jets over the final 10 games.  7 or 8 games where the Jets are blown out in dominant fashion, and 2-3 close but terrible games where no one watching is happy that they tuned in.  

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3 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Nothing wrong with losing a lot of 24-17 type games where all of the rookies you mentioned, and Darnold, look good and competitive.

A season like last year where the Jets finished 6-2, gave us some hope, and still got the LT that looks like he was worth a Top 5 pick turned out to be great.  In other words, drafting 6th, 8th or 11th last year didn't really matter.  I think we got the right guy.  This year's colossal step backwards was unexpected by most and due to a variety of things - the active removal of talent from the roster, injuries, poor free agent signings, a bad HC and a QB unable to rise above all that.

In my mind, a dream scenario would be getting the #1 pick after finishing with a 1-15 record and having many of our key players look good (Darnold, Becton, Mims, Zuniga, Davis, Perine, etc.).  This would give JD lots of options including taking Lawrence, getting great trade value for Darnold after he finishes well, etc. and spare us the embarrassment of going winless.

 

If we are 1-15, Darnold didn’t play well enough to move forward with. That’s the bottom line. 

Darnold probably has to win a minimum of 4-5 games to keep his job, IMO. 

Otherwise, Douglas will be staring at one of Lawrence, Fields, or Lance with a chance to reset the rookie QB contract window.

street fighter GIF

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3 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I've been thinking a lot the last few days about how the next month or so could be really difficult for us Jets fans, but in a different way then it's normally difficult.

We are start to finally see some of our Young pieces on the field, together.  Becton, Mims, Perine and even probably guys like Zuniga and Hall.  That's actually relatively exciting and reason to watch.  

But what if all of them turn out to show promise?  It's entirely possible that if they all play well(along with Darnold improving), we could kiss that #1 pick goodbye.

On the other hand, if they all underwhelm, then yippee we get the 1st pick, but are not any closer to a competitive roster than we were a year ago. And the GM would have some questions to answer.

Then again, Gase is the coach so maybe both things can happen and he just costs us the game from his ineptness. 

Cheer up. They can still play well and lose. But what it will show is how many deserve to be held over to next season. From here on out the players will be auditioning for next year. They need to make the most of it.

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5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

What does this even mean?

He hasn't played, and the idea of him actually dressing seems impossible. Sorry it was hard for you to decipher.

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Just now, pointman said:

He hasn't played, and the idea of him actually dressing seems impossible. Sorry it was hard for you to decipher.

Yeah, when something makes that little sense you think there must be another meaning even if you can't figure out what it is. I'm sorry for the American Education System.

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2 hours ago, shuler82 said:

Unless it means we keep Gase. And that’s the problem. 

Choosing to keep Gase is like choosing to keep colon cancer.

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19 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Yeah, when something makes that little sense you think there must be another meaning even if you can't figure out what it is. I'm sorry for the American Education System.

 

LOL. Its OK. Appreciate it though. We can't all be home schooled like you.

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1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

If we are 1-15, Darnold didn’t play well enough to move forward with. That’s the bottom line. 

100% If Darnold plays well we won't be 1-15, nevermind Mims and becton

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5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I've been thinking a lot the last few days about how the next month or so could be really difficult for us Jets fans, but in a different way then it's normally difficult.

We are start to finally see some of our Young pieces on the field, together.  Becton, Mims, Perine and even probably guys like Zuniga and Hall.  That's actually relatively exciting and reason to watch.  

But what if all of them turn out to show promise?  It's entirely possible that if they all play well(along with Darnold improving), we could kiss that #1 pick goodbye.

On the other hand, if they all underwhelm, then yippee we get the 1st pick, but are not any closer to a competitive roster than we were a year ago. And the GM would have some questions to answer.

Then again, Gase is the coach so maybe both things can happen and he just costs us the game from his ineptness. 

I look it as a win/win. Either we suck and get Lawrence or the young players make an impact we win a few games and still get a top 3-4 pick to help rebuild around a core that may be more promising than we thought. 

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I've been thinking a lot the last few days about how the next month or so could be really difficult for us Jets fans, but in a different way then it's normally difficult.
We are start to finally see some of our Young pieces on the field, together.  Becton, Mims, Perine and even probably guys like Zuniga and Hall.  That's actually relatively exciting and reason to watch.  
But what if all of them turn out to show promise?  It's entirely possible that if they all play well(along with Darnold improving), we could kiss that #1 pick goodbye.
On the other hand, if they all underwhelm, then yippee we get the 1st pick, but are not any closer to a competitive roster than we were a year ago. And the GM would have some questions to answer.
Then again, Gase is the coach so maybe both things can happen and he just costs us the game from his ineptness. 

Or... these rooks show improvement but it’s not enough fire power to get it done in the win column.
At this point I’m really looking forward to some of these guys getting on the field to chalk up their first NFL playing time.
Mims, hall, perine and Clark are gonna be studs. The more we can see them the better.
Gase sucks


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5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I've been thinking a lot the last few days about how the next month or so could be really difficult for us Jets fans, but in a different way then it's normally difficult.

We are start to finally see some of our Young pieces on the field, together.  Becton, Mims, Perine and even probably guys like Zuniga and Hall.  That's actually relatively exciting and reason to watch.  

But what if all of them turn out to show promise?  It's entirely possible that if they all play well(along with Darnold improving), we could kiss that #1 pick goodbye.

On the other hand, if they all underwhelm, then yippee we get the 1st pick, but are not any closer to a competitive roster than we were a year ago. And the GM would have some questions to answer.

Then again, Gase is the coach so maybe both things can happen and he just costs us the game from his ineptness. 

OR...what if they play well, and we realize we really aren't as bad as we thought, so we don't need the number one pick overall?

 

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4 hours ago, CTM said:

Teams with Qb, wr1 and Lt playing good football generally dont go 1-15

True.

But of those three guys and the 18 possible games that could have been played between them we've seen what, 7 or 8 player-games so far?  Darnold has missed a couple, Becton missed a couple, Mims has missed all of them.  Last week included NONE of those 3.

It would be nice to see at least 4 games before this season ends that includes all of Darnold, Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Becton, McGovern, Lewis, and Fant on the field.  I don't even care what RB or TE is out there, or if GVR, Josh Andrews or whoever plays RG.  But we have yet to see that group play together once and most often it has been missing at least 2 or 3 of them at all times.

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28 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

True.

But of those three guys and the 18 possible games that could have been played between them we've seen what, 7 or 8 player-games so far?  Darnold has missed a couple, Becton missed a couple, Mims has missed all of them.  Last week included NONE of those 3.

It would be nice to see at least 4 games before this season ends that includes all of Darnold, Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Becton, McGovern, Lewis, and Fant on the field.  I don't even care what RB or TE is out there, or if GVR, Josh Andrews or whoever plays RG.  But we have yet to see that group play together once and most often it has been missing at least 2 or 3 of them at all times.

Sure, all i;m saying is this idea that we get the #1 pick and Darnold, Mims and Becton all play good football these last 10 games is likely mutually exclusive. One or the other, you're wishing for your cake and to eat it too. I've got news for you tho, Crusher already at all the cakes

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49 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

True.

But of those three guys and the 18 possible games that could have been played between them we've seen what, 7 or 8 player-games so far?  Darnold has missed a couple, Becton missed a couple, Mims has missed all of them.  Last week included NONE of those 3.

It would be nice to see at least 4 games before this season ends that includes all of Darnold, Perriman, Mims, Crowder, Becton, McGovern, Lewis, and Fant on the field.  I don't even care what RB or TE is out there, or if GVR, Josh Andrews or whoever plays RG.  But we have yet to see that group play together once and most often it has been missing at least 2 or 3 of them at all times.

Yup.  The team stinks, but I am hoping we see that there are a few more pieces in place for next season than might be apparent.

 I don't think it is crazy to think we may have at least 3 spots on the OL locked down.  Becton at LT, Fant or Edoga at RT.  Edoga has looked good when he has played, woudl be really encouraging if he shows he can be a starting RT .  Then either McGovern returns to form where he has been a solid C,  or maybe Clark can do something if he gets a chance.  We will still need to add a piece or two next season, but we could hve a decent foundation.

And at the WR position, we know Crowder is an above average slot guy.  Mims is the key though.  Once he gets ont he field (if he gets ont he field) if he proves he can be the X we have needed for so long and if the Smiths can be decent 4th and 5th receivers, we may only need a strong Z to round out the group.  Mims is the key -- if he sucks, we are pretty much exactly where we were headint into this season.

RB and TE are disasters.  Looks like those positions may need total rebuilds.  And of course we will probably stillb e looking for a QB.  But maybe, just maybe the cupboard is not quite so bare as it appears right now.

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44 minutes ago, CTM said:

Sure, all i;m saying is this idea that we get the #1 pick and Darnold, Mims and Becton all play good football these last 10 games is likely mutually exclusive. One or the other, you're wishing for your cake and to eat it too. I've got news for you tho, Crusher already at all the cakes

And if some of the young guys can perfrom, and we win a handful lof games and pick 5th.  Is that really so bad.  Maybe it is because I am not completely sold on Lawrence as the next great QB.  Besides when is the last time the "next great QB" really was the "next great QB".

How many of the best QBs in the game went 1 overall.  Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brees.   All great QBs, all Super Bowl Champs.  Not a #1 overall in the group.  We might be better off if some of the young OL, WRs & Darnold show they can play and we win a few games.  You know where you find most of the #1 overall picks -- ranked 21 and below in QBR this season: Stafford, Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Newton.  Plus #2 overall Wentz & Trubisky.  And Darnold at #3.  All in the bottom 12.  And that doesn't include Jameis Winston who is on the bench.  Only top 3 overall QBs in the top 20 are Goff and Ryan.

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1 hour ago, CTM said:

Sure, all i;m saying is this idea that we get the #1 pick and Darnold, Mims and Becton all play good football these last 10 games is likely mutually exclusive. One or the other, you're wishing for your cake and to eat it too. I've got news for you tho, Crusher already at all the cakes

Yup, I probably painted an idealistic scenario.  But I'd still like to see a good group of the guys who expect to be here for at least a couple more years demonstrate some competence and competitiveness.....and lose a lot of close games.

 

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

And if some of the young guys can perfrom, and we win a handful lof games and pick 5th.  Is that really so bad.  Maybe it is because I am not completely sold on Lawrence as the next great QB.  Besides when is the last time the "next great QB" really was the "next great QB".

How many of the best QBs in the game went 1 overall.  Wilson, Rodgers, Mahomes, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brees.   All great QBs, all Super Bowl Champs.  Not a #1 overall in the group.  We might be better off if some of the young OL, WRs & Darnold show they can play and we win a few games.  You know where you find most of the #1 overall picks -- ranked 21 and below in QBR this season: Stafford, Mayfield, Burrow, Murray, Newton.  Plus #2 overall Wentz & Trubisky.  And Darnold at #3.  All in the bottom 12.  And that doesn't include Jameis Winston who is on the bench.  Only top 3 overall QBs in the top 20 are Goff and Ryan.

Great post.  I have no idea if Lawrence is better than Darnold.  Some here are convinced of it for whatever reason (scouting reports, level of competition, QBASE scores, playing at USC vs. playing at Clemson, etc.).  But none of us can definitively say, with all things being equal, who would turn out to be a better QB.  But I CAN say with a high degree of confidence that no young QB will play very well here with the kind of coaching and roster the Jets currently have.

It just doesn't matter who the QB is right now.  Nobody is good enough to overcome Gase's coaching and fake handoffs to Frank Gore while hitting Braxton Berrios for big plays while Chuma Edoga is blocking for him.  Sure, there are probably some QBs who could get this Jets team to 2 or 3 wins, but nobody is having sustained success.  So, why not build up the team and the roster and have a nice landing spot for a future QB rather than doing the opposite?  Why continue to put highly drafted, high quality QB prospects in horrible situations where they are the only bright spot on a team that needs to rebuild for 2-3 years?

Fix the team first, then add the QB like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, like the Ravens did with Lamar, like Tennessee did before adding Tannehill, etc.  Lots of the NFL's best teams took their QBs at #10 or later in the Draft (Packers, Bills, Chiefs, Seahawks, Steelers, etc.).  This idea that you need to have a Top 2 or 3 pick to get a franchise QB is horsesh!t.  It only mattered when we had Maccagnan because he couldn't scout and had to look at concensus rankings to know who he wanted.  A real GM finds a QB who he can win with.  Again, Baltimore, Tennessee, Kansas City, Buffalo are all good examples.

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56 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

Great post.  I have no idea if Lawrence is better than Darnold.  Some here are convinced of it for whatever reason (scouting reports, level of competition, QBASE scores, playing at USC vs. playing at Clemson, etc.).  But none of us can definitively say, with all things being equal, who would turn out to be a better QB.  But I CAN say with a high degree of confidence that no young QB will play very well here with the kind of coaching and roster the Jets currently have.

It just doesn't matter who the QB is right now.  Nobody is good enough to overcome Gase's coaching and fake handoffs to Frank Gore while hitting Braxton Berrios for big plays while Chuma Edoga is blocking for him.  Sure, there are probably some QBs who could get this Jets team to 2 or 3 wins, but nobody is having sustained success.  So, why not build up the team and the roster and have a nice landing spot for a future QB rather than doing the opposite?  Why continue to put highly drafted, high quality QB prospects in horrible situations where they are the only bright spot on a team that needs to rebuild for 2-3 years?

Fix the team first, then add the QB like the Chiefs did with Mahomes, like the Ravens did with Lamar, like Tennessee did before adding Tannehill, etc.  Lots of the NFL's best teams took their QBs at #10 or later in the Draft (Packers, Bills, Chiefs, Seahawks, Steelers, etc.).  This idea that you need to have a Top 2 or 3 pick to get a franchise QB is horsesh!t.  It only mattered when we had Maccagnan because he couldn't scout and had to look at concensus rankings to know who he wanted.  A real GM finds a QB who he can win with.  Again, Baltimore, Tennessee, Kansas City, Buffalo are all good examples.

You are entirely correct - nobody knows for certain what any college player will become - including Lawrence 
 

But the other big issue is financial. Having your QB on year 1 of his rookie contract is an enormous advantage going forward 

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