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Justin Herbert

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You mean like how Phillip Rivers did when he threw for a 23/20 TD:INT ratio last season with the same weapons?  And wasn't Anthony Lynn getting roundly criticized (with some thinking he is on the hot seat) earlier this season when Tyrod Taylor was under center?  Those complaints sure went away quickly!

If WR's truly make the QB, then why do franchise QB's have success for so long?  Why aren't they completely reliant on their weppinz to succeed?  Why have even "middling" franchise QB's like, say, Matthew Stafford, continue to produce year after year even in times where they have crappy or mediocre receivers?

It can be simultaneously true that Herbert is already far better than Darnold AND has vastly superior weapons, you know.  These aren't mutually exclusive points.

Justin Herbert hasn't had the golden opportunity that Sam Darnold has had to develop into a shell shocked almost was. 

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32 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Justin Herbert hasn't had the golden opportunity that Sam Darnold has had to develop into a shell shocked almost was. 

Herbert's college situation was as bad as Sam's is pro situation is now. Probably worse.  In his freshman year, the entire team mutinied on Helfrich, two classes of incoming skills players either were ineffective, quit or got arrested. Then the entire coaching staff that recruited him was fired.  Willie Taggart installed an entire new offense then left before the season was even over.  Mario Cristobal then installed another new offense with the same bunch of nobodies at WR and TE.   Also his OC basically took the ball away from him his senior season until they had no choice but to use him in the Rose Bowl.

And this was an 18 year old from Eugene...  not Mr. Big Thicc Coastal Boy out of USC.  So any staff Oregon migbt have had to help prepare him for the pros... we'll there were none.  So Justin Herbert hasn't had the opportunity to be shell shocked?   Outside of a decent line his last two college years hes been given absolutely zilch.

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8 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Herbert's college situation was as bad as Sam's is pro situation is now. Probably worse.  In his freshman year, the entire team mutinied on Helfrich, two classes of incoming skills players either were ineffective, quit or got arrested. Then the entire coaching staff that recruited him was fired.  Willie Taggart installed an entire new offense then left before the season was even over.  Mario Cristobal then installed another new offense with the same bunch of nobodies at WR and TE.   Also his OC basically took the ball away from him his senior season until they had no choice but to use him in the Rose Bowl.

And this was an 18 year old from Eugene...  not Mr. Big Thicc Coastal Boy out of USC.  So any staff Oregon migbt have had to help prepare him for the pros... we'll there were none.  So Justin Herbert hasn't had the opportunity to be shell shocked?   Outside of a decent line his last two college years hes been given absolutely zilch.

I hear Kingsborough CC was a really good situation, very comparable to the NFL

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You mean like how Phillip Rivers did when he threw for a 23/20 TD:INT ratio last season with the same weapons?  And wasn't Anthony Lynn getting roundly criticized (with some thinking he is on the hot seat) earlier this season when Tyrod Taylor was under center?  Those complaints sure went away quickly!

If WR's truly make the QB, then why do franchise QB's have success for so long?  Why aren't they completely reliant on their weppinz to succeed?  Why have even "middling" franchise QB's like, say, Matthew Stafford, continue to produce year after year even in times where they have crappy or mediocre receivers?

It can be simultaneously true that Herbert is already far better than Darnold AND has vastly superior weapons, you know.  These aren't mutually exclusive points.

Goddamn, you are a broken record. We get it. You hate Darnold. Get a hobby already. 

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If Lawrence is available draft him. That said in semi defense of Darnold THE franchise QB Gardner Minshew II I believe has 3 300 yd games this season. Some guys are in systems/positions where they can air it out.

 

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22 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

I hear Kingsborough CC was a really good situation, very comparable to the NFL

Yet a kid comes from the exact same conference as Sam, plays around the same time, with completely sh*tty circumstances (has around two months with a decent pro QB coach for the first time in his life...) puts up record numbers. 

I'm not saying that Sam wasn't thrown into the fire.  But to say that "one hasn't had a chance to be shell shocked."  He already was..  he was just more well conditioned and talented enough to overcome it.  Sam's in a big pond so everybody saw him hurt.  Herbert went to a big pond too and had 10 minutes after Tyrod got deflated to become a decent QB.   But "metal strengthens metal" as Cristobal says about his players. And some swim and some don't...

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This many games in and Sanchez had failed to reach 200+ yards in 3 of his first 4 starts, completed just 57 % of his throws, and had a 4 TD / 5 INT ratio.

He never looked like Steve f**king Young.  

Well, Tampa Bay Steve Young,  maybe...just without the running and stuff.

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11 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

Yet a kid comes from the exact same conference as Sam, plays around the same time, with completely sh*tty circumstances (has around two months with a decent pro QB coach for the first time in his life...) puts up record numbers. 

I'm not saying that Sam wasn't thrown into the fire.  But to say that "one hasn't had a chance to be shell shocked."  He already was..  he was just more well conditioned and talented enough to overcome it.  Sam's in a big pond so everybody saw him hurt.  Herbert went to a big pond too and had 10 minutes after Tyrod got deflated to become a decent QB.   But "metal strengthens metal" as Cristobal says about his players. And some swim and some don't...

Stop comparing the Pac 10 to the NFL

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9 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Stop comparing the Pac 10 to the NFL

Don't worry.  I won't.  It's not worth arguing.

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3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In 4 career starts to date, Justin Herbert has two 300+ yard games and two 3+ TD games.

In 30 career starts to date, Sam Darnold has four 300+ yard games and three 3+ TD games.

The Chargers are a bad team (1-4).  

So what gives?

What gives? Sam had Bowles and Gase. Thats what gives.

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I can certainty see how you would confuse keenan allen, hunter henry, mike williams with the vast array of jets weapons. 

And also know that with Adam Gase Herbert would be throwing for 400 yards a game and 5 tds per game.

I sort of agree with you and I sort of don't.   Would Darnold likley be a better player today had the Jets surrounded him with better weapons and had he been supported by a better coaching staff.  Yes, probably.  But he hasn't been.  I was a big fan of Sam when we drafted him, and still expected him to take a big step forward this year.  But when I watch his tape in 2020, I see a guy who is lost.  He locks onto receivers, rarely making it to a second or third read.  Does not see the field well, lacks pocket presence, poor footwork, bad decisions, poor reads.  He is a mess in the pocket -- still makes some plays when the play breaks down, but in the pocket he is a mess.

Regardless of reasons why, I think he is a project at this point.  Can he be broken of bad habits and rebuilt -- sures, he is only 23.  But can we afford to be the ones committing to reubuilding him, I don't think so.  I m hoping he changes my mind over the next 10 games, but I see a guy who needs to go somewhere else as a back up and maybe in 2 to 3 years he can reinvent himself and be a good QB.  I just don't think it is likely to happen here.

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28 minutes ago, Lith said:

I sort of agree with you and I sort of don't.   Would Darnold likley be a better player today had the Jets surrounded him with better weapons and had he been supported by a better coaching staff.  Yes, probably.  But he hasn't been.  I was a big fan of Sam when we drafted him, and still expected him to take a big step forward this year.  But when I watch his tape in 2020, I see a guy who is lost.  He locks onto receivers, rarely making it to a second or third read.  Does not see the field well, lacks pocket presence, poor footwork, bad decisions, poor reads.  He is a mess in the pocket -- still makes some plays when the play breaks down, but in the pocket he is a mess.

Regardless of reasons why, I think he is a project at this point.  Can he be broken of bad habits and rebuilt -- sures, he is only 23.  But can we afford to be the ones committing to reubuilding him, I don't think so.  I m hoping he changes my mind over the next 10 games, but I see a guy who needs to go somewhere else as a back up and maybe in 2 to 3 years he can reinvent himself and be a good QB.  I just don't think it is likely to happen here.

Despite what people on here tell us all, how much more of a sure fire thing is lawrence and fields, especially facing the joke of a situation we have put our QB in.

Hey if they want to dump darnold by all means but if they actually want a different result they better get a coach and actually build the roster.

 

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Just now, Beerfish said:

Despite what people on here tell us all, how much more of a sure fire thing is lawrence and fields, especially facing the joke of a situation we have put our QB in.

Hey if they want to dump darnold by all means but if they actually want a different result they better get a coach and actually build the roster.

 

This time, I don't sort of agree with you.  I completely agree.  There is not such thing as a sure thing in the draft.  Especially at the QB position.  We need to build around our young QB, whether it is Darnold, Fields or Lawrence.  Or somebody else.  The way we have mishandled Darnold is criminal.

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Another game, another 300+ yard, 3 TD performance for Herbert.

He makes a lot of big plays. 

Fun player to watch so far. 

 

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On 10/24/2020 at 5:19 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

What was the excuse when Bates was OC?

He was the youngest starting QB in NFL history?

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12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 


lol. Always something to excuse that giant baby.

 

Did anyone watch how Josh Allen made plays today? 

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On 10/24/2020 at 3:56 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

In 4 career starts to date, Justin Herbert has two 300+ yard games and two 3+ TD games.

In 30 career starts to date, Sam Darnold has four 300+ yard games and three 3+ TD games.

The Chargers are a bad team (1-4).  

So what gives?

Do ya think it helps a QB to have targets like Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry?  Oh  and an OL that actually affords Herbert with a clean pocket.   Ask yourself this - Has Sam Darnold had anyone even remotely as talented as Allen, Williams or Henry?????????  Not to mention that Gase's offense looks like a scheme intended to compete in the special olympics.

During Sam's rookie year, the first thought in his mind was to throw the ball downfield.  Last year and this year the first thought in Sam's mind is how much insurance does he have.

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Do ya think it helps a QB to have targets like Keenan Allen, Mike Williams and Hunter Henry?  Oh  and an OL that actually affords Herbert with a clean pocket.   Ask yourself this - Has Sam Darnold had anyone even remotely as talented as Allen, Williams or Henry?????????  Not to mention that Gase's offense looks like a scheme intended to compete in the special olympics.
During Sam's rookie year, the first thought in his mind was to throw the ball downfield.  Last year and this year the first thought in Sam's mind is how much insurance does he have.



Yawn
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On 10/24/2020 at 3:56 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

In 4 career starts to date, Justin Herbert has two 300+ yard games and two 3+ TD games.

In 30 career starts to date, Sam Darnold has four 300+ yard games and three 3+ TD games.

The Chargers are a bad team (1-4).  

So what gives?

Is this a trick question?

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55 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


lol. Always something to excuse that giant baby.

 

Not even the mustache helped today. True sign of utter helplessness. 

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On 10/24/2020 at 4:11 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

This many games in and Sanchez had failed to reach 200+ yards in 3 of his first 4 starts, completed just 57 % of his throws, and had a 4 TD / 5 INT ratio.

He never looked like Steve f**king Young.  

In all fairness he said Sanchez looked like Steve Young Jr. not Steve Young. 

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Another game, another 300+ yard, 3 TD performance for Herbert.

Herbert is amazing. He’s going to embarrass the Jets secondary. Chargers have lost nail biters vs. very good teams. And are putting up points. Rookie of the year.

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Everyone knew Darnold was a gunslinger, too young and not enough experience. He’s a diet Favre / diet Steve Young mashup. He will be successful somewhere.

But he is not ready to carry an entire roster. That’s unfair.

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On 10/24/2020 at 9:56 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

In 4 career starts to date, Justin Herbert has two 300+ yard games and two 3+ TD games.

In 30 career starts to date, Sam Darnold has four 300+ yard games and three 3+ TD games.

The Chargers are a bad team (1-4).  

So what gives?

Wowoeosjdndoaoaknnzzzzzz!!!

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50 minutes ago, Vader said:

Everyone knew Darnold was a gunslinger, too young and not enough experience. He’s a diet Favre / diet Steve Young mashup. He will be successful somewhere.

But he is not ready to carry an entire roster. That’s unfair.

Unfair!

Bwahahahaha!

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On 10/24/2020 at 4:10 PM, ryu79 said:

This many games in Sanchez looked like Steve Young Jr. and had already beaten the Patriots at home. 

 

On 10/24/2020 at 4:11 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

This many games in and Sanchez had failed to reach 200+ yards in 3 of his first 4 starts, completed just 57 % of his throws, and had a 4 TD / 5 INT ratio.

Oof.

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This guy is redefining the standard of success for a rookie QB.

 

It's unreal. He's literally walked into the league, and played at an elite level from day 1. This is NOT normal. At all.

 

And this guy took all his snaps in college out of the shotgun. Never called a play, never ran a pro-style offense. Nobody, in their right mind, would have predicted this. 

 

I don't know to say. I'm speechless. Scouts know nothing about these players, its like their ability to make informed decisions hasn't improved at all. Dart throws. 

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On 10/24/2020 at 3:57 PM, joewilly12 said:

Justin Herbert is a better QB. 

Why wasnt Justin Herbert a "generational talent" but Trevor Lawrence is?   2 QB's went ahead of this guy and they are nowhere near as good.

6'6 230 cannon arm, accurate as can be, takes care of the ball, ran a 4.6. 

TL has no chance of doing this at the next level.  He can barely complete forward passes and Herbert is attacking every level of the field like he's a bigger faster stronger Aaron Rodgers.

This is why I never ever listen the talking head morons wannabe scouts.  They're ******* clueless. 

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36 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

 

Oof.

Cynical. You cut that a week earlier and Sanchez was 3-0, with 4 TDs/2INTs and Jets fans and media were in love with him and Rex's Jets. He threw for only 170 yards against the Patriots week 2 but picked up a ton of 3rd downs and that was a huge win. The wheels absolutely came off from there and he was wearing a wristband with instructions like a month later.

Herbert is clearly very talented, and I hope he holds up (he's very fun to watch), but patience is a virtue when it comes to evaluating rookies early.

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