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Justin Herbert

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10 hours ago, PS17 said:

I agree. And “generational” has become the most annoying word in sports. 

Only because "franchise" has been overused to the point where it doesn't mean what it means anymore.  Now is basically means serviceable staring QB.

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1 hour ago, NorthCoastJetsFan said:

Now they think it's a bad move. At the time, Lamar was looked at as only a runner without accuracy, and Allen was just a guy with a strong arm and a strong body.

Drafting QBs is the biggest crapshoot of the draft. If the team does not have the right coach, a decent OL, and at least one better than average receiver, all bets are off.

This is why I would be very cautious about drafting a QB with the #1 pick with the Jets scenario. There are just too many holes to fill. In addition, while it used to be that excellent NFL QBs were only available infrequently, they now seem to be available every year.

It's less of a crapshoot if you:

1. understand the rules/evolution of the game, and remain current with the times (instead of looking backwards).

2. value 'un-teachable' traits over others - such as natural, innate athleticism.

 

The jets, like a number of other franchises, are turning it into a crapshoot by overcomplicating the process, and underrating GOOD prospects. 

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12 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

Unless your names Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Pele, Diego Maradona, Messi or Wayne Gretzky. You're not generational.  

I'd put Elway in that category.  While he didn't quite live up to his billing, at least not until later in his career, he was absolutely a generational prospect, who could have potentially been a superstar in either sport he tried.

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4 hours ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

In Darnold's defense, he would probably have 25 more yards per game with Keenan Allen. 

Thus bumping him up to 199 yards per game this season and 241 yards per game for his career.  Superstar!!!

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3 hours ago, JiF said:

And while Luton certainly makes you feel silly watching the Jets, he's got a little more than Chris Conley to throw to, that's just a bad troll job.  Chark, 2nd RD pick is a baller, Eifert was once an elite TE, Shenault is a 1st rounder and James Robinson is good. 

Yes, every QB in the league has better weapons than Sam Darnold.  

But there's still no way Darnold would be throwing for 300+ yards and 2+ TDs with the Chargers or Jaguars.  Not a chance in hell.  

Luton, a 6th round pick who was the Jaguars' QB3 a week ago, doing in his debut what Darnold, a top 5 pick, has only done 4x in 32 starts is simply pathetic, no matter who each of them have to throw to.

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9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd put Elway in that category.  While he didn't quite live up to his billing, at least not until later in his career, he was absolutely a generational prospect, who could have potentially been a superstar in either sport he tried.

You might want to check out his stats again. Never threw for more then 27 tds in a season just 1 year over 4,000 yds (4,030) And the reason he won 2 bowls was Terrell Davis..

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

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2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Far more important than whoever JD picks at QB, is the following 8 draft picks that will follow and what players he signs prior to the draft and the coach he decides to hire.   

100% agreed, but don't tell that to the "a QB either has it or doesn't" club.

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2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Only because "franchise" has been overused to the point where it doesn't mean what it means anymore.  Now is basically means serviceable staring QB.

Yep. Herbert after 7 games is a FQB and the second coming of Elway, and Lawrence is the greatest prospect since Elway. They hyperbole and insignificance of these words are at a high-point.

I hope whoever we pick ends up being a FQB for us, but the true determination of that will be in years 7. 8, 9 - not 1, 2, 3; and it'll have slightly more to do with the circumstances that he's in than his individual abilities alone.  

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39 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, every QB in the league has better weapons than Sam Darnold.  

But there's still no way Darnold would be throwing for 300+ yards and 2+ TDs with the Chargers or Jaguars.  Not a chance in hell.  

Luton, a 6th round pick who was the Jaguars' QB3 a week ago, doing in his debut what Darnold, a top 5 pick, has only done 4x in 32 starts is simply pathetic, no matter who each of them have to throw to.

I hate when you edit my posts and then begin to make an argument I clearly wasnt making and clearly wouldnt make if you simply read my post.  I didnt say Darnold would do the same or disagreed with how pathetic it is.  In fact, numerous times I said Darnold sucks and is a mega bust. ass munch

The bigger issue you should be pointing out was my other point, that 2 years in a row, the Jags have played a 6th round rookie and got production out of them.  Meanwhile, the Jets took a QB in the 4th round this season yet we see Flacco when Darnold goes down. 

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3 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

I hope whoever we pick ends up being a FQB for us, but the true determination of that will be in years 7. 8, 9 - not 1, 2, 3; and it'll have slightly more to do with the circumstances that he's in than his individual abilities alone.  

 

BUT I CANT WAIT THAT LONG, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!! 

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8 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

BUT I CANT WAIT THAT LONG, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!! 

Lol. The point being, if he's made it to years 7, 8, 9 as our starter, then he's a FQB. Otherwise, he's wasted. 

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12 minutes ago, JiF said:

I hate when you edit my posts and then begin to make an argument I clearly wasnt making and clearly wouldnt make if you simply read my post.  I didnt say Darnold would do the same or disagreed with how pathetic it is.  In fact, numerous times I said Darnold sucks and is a mega bust. ass munch

The bigger issue you should be pointing out was my other point, that 2 years in a row, the Jags have played a 6th round rookie and got production out of them.  Meanwhile, the Jets took a QB in the 4th round this season yet we see Flacco when Darnold goes down. 

 

So you're trying to make Luton a Joe Douglas/James Morgan thing.  I'll save that argument for another thread.

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49 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes, every QB in the league has better weapons than Sam Darnold.  

But there's still no way Darnold would be throwing for 300+ yards and 2+ TDs with the Chargers or Jaguars.  Not a chance in hell.  

Luton, a 6th round pick who was the Jaguars' QB3 a week ago, doing in his debut what Darnold, a top 5 pick, has only done 4x in 32 starts is simply pathetic, no matter who each of them have to throw to.

I wouldn't wish Gase and his staff on anyone. 

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6 hours ago, Savage69 said:

You might want to check out his stats again. Never threw for more then 27 tds in a season just 1 year over 4,000 yds (4,030) And the reason he won 2 bowls was Terrell Davis..

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/E/ElwaJo00.htm

Are we going to pretend that Elway didn't go to FIVE super bowls with two different coaches? His first super bowl appearance was in 1986, and his last was in 1997. It's a losing proposition to try to convince people that Elway isn't all-time great QB.

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd put Elway in that category.  While he didn't quite live up to his billing, at least not until later in his career, he was absolutely a generational prospect, who could have potentially been a superstar in either sport he tried.

I may be crazy but I think he picked  the wrong sport. I read some of his scouting reports coming out of Oneonta that summer that he played.  And it's literally like "HOF level, next Dale Murphy, 30 homer/100 RBI's a year."  Mattingly/Winfield/Elway would have chewed up 80's pitching like toothpicks.  The amount of great baseball players who could have been great but became even subpar football players is nuts.

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1 hour ago, pdxgreen said:

I may be crazy but I think he picked  the wrong sport. I read some of his scouting reports coming out of Oneonta that summer that he played.  And it's literally like "HOF level, next Dale Murphy, 30 homer/100 RBI's a year."  Mattingly/Winfield/Elway would have chewed up 80's pitching like toothpicks.  The amount of great baseball players who could have been great but became even subpar football players is nuts.

Maybe he could have been great in baseball.  But Elway was one of the top 10 QB's to ever play the game, and he won 2 Super Bowls (and went to 5).  I don't think you hindsight that.  

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe he could have been great in baseball.  But Elway was one of the top 10 QB's to ever play the game, and he won 2 Super Bowls (and went to 5).  I don't think you hindsight that.  

I think he was great but not as much as people say. His numbers don't match up as well as other QBs.  And I would put Marino over him as far as pure ability.

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3 hours ago, pdxgreen said:

I may be crazy but I think he picked  the wrong sport. I read some of his scouting reports coming out of Oneonta that summer that he played.  And it's literally like "HOF level, next Dale Murphy, 30 homer/100 RBI's a year."  Mattingly/Winfield/Elway would have chewed up 80's pitching like toothpicks.  The amount of great baseball players who could have been great but became even subpar football players is nuts.

Tough to say he picked wrong when he made it to the HOF and won 2 SBs.  He made a ton of money and still works in the game now.  He didn't become a subpar football player, he was great.

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3 minutes ago, adb280z said:

Tough to say he picked wrong when he made it to the HOF and won 2 SBs.  He made a ton of money and still works in the game now.  He didn't become a subpar football player, he was great.

Baseball was the only sport I truly loved.  So when I see talents like Bo Jackson & Elway.  I always think they should've picked the "other sport."  But I dont watch baseball any more.  So obviously.  I don't voice that opinion much.

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On 11/9/2020 at 5:42 AM, predator_05 said:

 

to suggest that other QBs might be better isn't a knock on Lawrence. 

 

Trey Lance and Zach Wilson having better pro careers than Lawrence is not unthinkable.

Trading down from 1.01 (or not taking QB there) makes a lot of sense. But i doubt the front office is bold enough to do this. 

Based on what? I'd agree with this during the past decade, but what have you seen from JD to make you say this in one offseason that was spent beginning to dig us out from the disaster of the last 2 front offices

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10 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

Based on what? I'd agree with this during the past decade, but what have you seen from JD to make you say this in one offseason that was spent beginning to dig us out from the disaster of the last 2 front offices

 

Not based on anything, just my gut feeling. Managing backlash and ownership pressure will be crucial. Taking QB at 1.01 is the 'safe' option. 

 

I'm becoming more and more comfortable with the idea of trading away the 1.01 to take Sewell. 

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Update, entering Week 11's matchup:

 

In 8 career starts to date, Justin Herbert has four 300+ yard games and four 3+ TD games.

In 32 career starts to date, Sam Darnold has four 300+ yard games and three 3+ TD games.

 

The Chargers are still a bad team (2-7). 

I'm quite confident Herbert will add another 300+ yard day to his list against the Jets, and am reasonably confident he'll get 3 TDs, too.

Too bad we'll never know if Herbert is any good until he's in a good situation.

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Update, entering Week 11's matchup:

 

In 8 career starts to date, Justin Herbert has four 300+ yard games and four 3+ TD games.

In 32 career starts to date, Sam Darnold has four 300+ yard games and three 3+ TD games.

 

The Chargers are still a bad team (2-7). 

I'm quite confident Herbert will add another 300+ yard day to his list against the Jets, and am reasonably confident he'll get 3 TDs, too.

Too bad we'll never know if Herbert is any good until he's in a good situation.

Imagine what Herbert would do with a good supporting cast!

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Update following today's game:

Justin Herbert (9 career starts)

  • 300+ yard games:  5
  • 3+ TD games:  5

Sam Darnold (32 career starts)

  • 300+ yard games:  4
  • 3+ TD games:  3

 

The Chargers are still a bad team (3-7). 

Too bad we'll never know if Herbert is any good until he's in a good situation.

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Update following today's game:

Justin Herbert (9 career starts)

  • 300+ yard games:  5
  • 3+ TD games:  5

Sam Darnold (32 career starts)

  • 300+ yard games:  4
  • 3+ TD games:  3

 

The Chargers are still a bad team (3-7). 

Too bad we'll never know if Herbert is any good until he's in a good situation.

Jesus man, 3-7 and he has keenan allen from day one and mike wiliams and hunter henry and a decent oline.

We get it you hate darnold with every fibre of your being he is gonzo if we get the 1st or 2nd pick.

Whoever our new Qb is next year he better fing light it up from day one game one right?

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

Jesus man, 3-7 and he has keenan allen from day one and mike wiliams and hunter henry and a decent oline.

We get it you hate darnold with every fibre of your being he is gonzo if we get the 1st or 2nd pick.

Whoever our new Qb is next year he better fing light it up from day one game one right?

Exactly. I'd love to see how Herbert would have fared with this year's Jets squad, lol. 

 

And no, this isn't me saying Herbert is some terrible QB. 

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Jesus man, 3-7 and he has keenan allen from day one and mike wiliams and hunter henry and a decent oline.

Phillip Rivers had that same exact supporting cast and only managed two 3+ TD games last season.  What's more, Rivers hasn't had a 4-TD game since early in the 2016 season.  Herbert got one of those in his 4th start.

You can explain away decent play out of a rookie QB with the weppinnz argument.  You can't explain away Pro Bowl caliber play.  

This thread wasn't just designed to point out how bad Darnold is.  It's to demonstrate just how good Herbert has been immediately out of the gates.  

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Beyond the fact that it really seems like we will get Lawrence or Fields, we really dodged a bullet with Herbet being a Charger and not a Dolphin

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On 11/9/2020 at 6:02 PM, pdxgreen said:

I think he was great but not as much as people say. His numbers don't match up as well as other QBs.  And I would put Marino over him as far as pure ability.

hes a hofer ffs

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Chargers are still a bad team (3-7). 

Too bad we'll never know if Herbert is any good until he's in a good situation.

 

he's in a good situation. 

I don't think the Chargers are a bad team. Their 3-7 record belies how competitive they've been. 3 of those losses could have been wins, but for one play here or there. 

They've had some bad luck, and they've also made mistakes at crucial moments. Some avoidable turnovers. 

If they had a full strength defense, with Derwin james, bosa, ingram, etc. playing a full season together, it would have been different. Overall, they got a good roster there. 

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On 11/10/2020 at 6:43 AM, predator_05 said:

 

Not based on anything, just my gut feeling. Managing backlash and ownership pressure will be crucial. Taking QB at 1.01 is the 'safe' option. 

 

I'm becoming more and more comfortable with the idea of trading away the 1.01 to take Sewell. 

I finally have some faith in a GM and all I can say is that if that is the move he wants to make I am all for it. Obviously it's in the teams best interest for Darnold to be the answer. A top 2 pick would be a lot more valuable to this team if they dont need a QB. I feel like it's a foregone conclusion at this point that they have to go QB with the top pick, but I believe in JD and if he ended feeling like he could pass on a QB and get talent on all areas of this team, I would be encouraged. 

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7 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

I finally have some faith in a GM and all I can say is that if that is the move he wants to make I am all for it. Obviously it's in the teams best interest for Darnold to be the answer. A top 2 pick would be a lot more valuable to this team if they dont need a QB. I feel like it's a foregone conclusion at this point that they have to go QB with the top pick, but I believe in JD and if he ended feeling like he could pass on a QB and get talent on all areas of this team, I would be encouraged. 

 

There's no need to pass on QB. You draft a QB lower down the draft and have him compete with Darnold.

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