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Say Goodbye to Sam Darnold

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2 minutes ago, David Harris said:

I think the Johnson’s care and are terribly embarrassed.  They come from a real blue blood lineage and think themselves Rockefellers from the gilded age.  Woody seems acutely aware of being on the shadow of a “Great family name” which he has tried to live up to but without any of the hard earned lessons of business. 
 

He wants to do big things but is too inept to deliver. Look no further than the west side stadium debacle and the monstrous Xanadu perversion and air conditioning unit (MetLife Stadium) that came out of it.  
 

he’s been in a circle of great men his whole life, private schools, summers in Europe, ambassadorships via family connections and donations, he is burning to feel validated in that world - he just has no ******* clue what he’s doing. 
 

Chris seems better, more down to earth, more willing to seek help. I liked his leader ship on social justice and I love the Joe Douglas hire.

 

Joe Douglas needs to be our Luke Skywalker and overcome the evil Empire.

I'm almost there. I agree they care but can't make heads or tails of their not firing Gase already given how thin their skin is.

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44 minutes ago, jgb said:

We would still be terrible with Mahomes! Nothing matters! Good players change nothing!!

"It's a FACT that no QB could consistently succeed on this terrible offense." - Closeted Jets fan masquerading as a Titans fan, early October 2019

I wonder if that's better than, "There's no point in bringing in or keeping any good players on offense because they'd be bad here."

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I presume you're not a simpleton, and understand two things can be true at the same time.....right?

everything that is true is true alongside all othertrue things.

whatthat has to do with me feeling not feeling sad/bad for a kid who has 30 million, i dont know.

good call on ramsey

 

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19 minutes ago, ryu79 said:

I'm almost there. I agree they care but can't make heads or tails of their not firing Gase already given how thin their skin is.

The word seems to be that mid season firings never actually help anything historically speaking, doesn’t help the team play better or lead to more wins- just throws more chaos into everything. Gase won’t survive this but the timing of his demise isn’t too important. 

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2 minutes ago, David Harris said:

The word seems to be that mid season firings never actually help anything historically speaking, doesn’t help the team play better or lead to more wins- just throws more chaos into everything. Gase won’t survive this but the timing of his demise isn’t too important. 

Oh I get that. But the Johnson's don't seem like likely folks to execute a tank this deliberately. Woody is just so needy...

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33 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If there was any real shot at Lawrence staying in school what'd seal the deal is if he & his family learn the Jets will not be firing Adam Gase. 

So many things are about perception. This is no different.

  • There'll be a lot of such perception that Darnold was a great prospect who showed promise as a rookie despite the Bowles handicap, and then regressed under Gase.
  • Even if he could escape that perception, he can't when also faced with the damning turnaround from Tannehill. He was the QB who made a victim out of Gase, who was unfortunately saddled with the soft top 10 pick QB. Then Tannehill gets away from Gase and suddenly he's a top 5 QB. Moreover, he did it on an offense that was so bad I'm sure many Tennessee fans were then absolving Mariota for sucking. 

Right or wrong, and no matter how much it semi-absolves Darnold for not being a good QB in his own right, it'd be the height of stupidity to give Lawrence every impression that he will be a certain bust if he gets drafted here.

Firing Gase is a no-brainer. Keeping Gase would be a no-brains'er.

Good QBs make their own weaponinzzsz, not the other way around.

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3 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Sam has alot of potential he easily has the highest ceiling of any qb we have had in a long time. he was not given a fair chance and there is an argument that this is gases fault look at tannehill outside of miami's gase run system. There is also an argument that this is joe douglas fault for not providing players who are able to stay healthy to give sam a fair shake. Undeniably there is an argument that his failure is his own doing but we have done him no favors.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

based on what? His draft position? His horrid TO rate in college? His hair? He is who we thought he was.

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19 minutes ago, jgb said:

Good QBs make their own weaponinzzsz, not the other way around.

I've noticed a couple of posters making fun of the word weapons here in past couple of days - is that a "thing" or two handles same person?

(Sorry, really random to see two handles deliberately make a joke about misspelling the same word?)

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1 minute ago, ryu79 said:

I've noticed a couple of posters making fun of the word weapons here in past couple of days - is that a "thing" or two handles same person?

(Sorry, really random to see two handles deliberately make a joke about misspelling the same word?)

Yes. Everyone who is right is one of my alts. You cracked the code. ;) 

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2 hours ago, David Harris said:

I think the Johnson’s care and are terribly embarrassed.  They come from a real blue blood lineage and think themselves Rockefellers from the gilded age.  Woody seems acutely aware of being on the shadow of a “Great family name” which he has tried to live up to but without any of the hard earned lessons of business. 
 

He wants to do big things but is too inept to deliver. Look no further than the west side stadium debacle and the monstrous Xanadu perversion and air conditioning unit (MetLife Stadium) that came out of it.  
 

he’s been in a circle of great men his whole life, private schools, summers in Europe, ambassadorships via family connections and donations, he is burning to feel validated in that world - he just has no ******* clue what he’s doing. 
 

Chris seems better, more down to earth, more willing to seek help. I liked his leader ship on social justice and I love the Joe Douglas hire.

 

Joe Douglas needs to be our Luke Skywalker and overcome the evil Empire.

Agree, at least how you started out, in that I don't think they don't care whether or not the team wins. 

Neither of these two double-D boobs are down to earth in any way. If you want to argue one is more down to earth than the other, have at it, but it's akin to debating whose farts are stinkier. I'm not into psychoanalysis of what these people think or don't think with regard to their legacy.

They do seem to care, or they'd be totally uninvolved; they certainly wouldn't be firing any GM or HC with 2 seasons left on a contract (let alone both at the same time) and eating it to represent a pure 8-figure cash loss. They did want a WSS - very badly - and spent some $70MM planning & lobbying to further the project. There was no getting around the Dolan/Silver alliance, even with the prospect of the venue maybe hosting the Olympics. I think MetLife Stadium sucks, too, but there's another team that signed on to do it, too. Given the disparity between the beautiful proposed WSS plan and the actually-built ML stadium, it seems 90+% of the design (if not more) was rubber-stamped by Mara/Tisch and Woody can take it or leave it b/c they were fully prepared go it alone without the Johnsons. Stadiums aside, since i'd rather they were winning in a dump like Shea (or even in a stadium with another team's name on it) than lose like this year after year in a nicer building, like most fans I care 99.9% about the quality of the product on the field, not the stadium where they play 10 games a year. 

The problem with the Johnson brothers - football-wise - is ultimately they don't realize that they're such huge problems themselves, and how instrumental they are to the team's failures. Yeah they've brought in consultants in the past, but what did they learn from the experience? That it was smart to have a failed GM and the owner dictate a coordinator hire?

The problem isn't just that they're both stupid, stupid, stupid. It's that they think they are otherwise, and won't be just hands-off. Not having an office - or even a front door key - for either Johnson brother at Florham Park would be a big step forward for the team. 

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Hard to believe that with that USC pedigree, Darnold isn't panning out as a NFL QB....... said the Jets, Eagles, Broncos, Cowboys, Bears and Redskins with Sanchez, the Cardinals, Raiders, Bills & Texans with Leinart, the Cardinals, Bengals and Raiders with Palmer, the Browns, Jags, Eagles and Patriots with Kessler, the Eagles, Cardinals, Bears, 49ers, Cardinals, Bengals and Bills with Barkley, the Jags, Bills, Bucs, Skins, Raiders and Giants with Johnson, the Raiders, Blue Bombers, and BC Lions with Marinovich, the Lions, Cowboys, Eagles, Redskins, Raiders & Panthers with Peete, and the Bears with Vince Evans.....never. 

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8 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

Sam has alot of potential he easily has the highest ceiling of any qb we have had in a long time. he was not given a fair chance and there is an argument that this is gases fault look at tannehill outside of miami's gase run system. There is also an argument that this is joe douglas fault for not providing players who are able to stay healthy to give sam a fair shake. Undeniably there is an argument that his failure is his own doing but we have done him no favors.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Since Namath the highest ceiling for drafted Jets QB's with the exception of Pennington was roughly the height of a coffin.  

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9 hours ago, SAR I said:

It sucks for the Jets because we committed 3 years to this guy and either he doesn't take football seriously enough or he's just not smart.

Either way, feel sorry for the Jets, not Sam.  Sam gets to walk away with $30M and can retire.  We get stuck with another 3 year wait and have to invest in another college kid and that's no fun at all.

SAR I

Gase Sucks

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11 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Im beginning to think JD is in on the tank. 

No way can an NFL GM be this dumb and allow all this without someone getting fired. 

JD was the architect of the the tank.  He knew exactly what type of team he was putting on the field this year.

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19 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

JD was the architect of the the tank.  He knew exactly what type of team he was putting on the field this year.

In a perfect world?  Yes.  In the sad reality of acumen displayed by former NY Jets GMs?  JD might actually have thought this team as assembled could compete.  That would put him, and the team, on a trajectory toward a further disaster, which gets him fired after next season.  Time will tell, I guess.

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41 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Gase Sucks

Gase is not showing flashes of being a great offensive coordinator.  But he is showing flashes of being a great head coach and that's far more important.  Next year he'll hire his own DC and a new OC and concentrate on just being the HC like half of HC's in the NFL do and we'll be far better for it.

SAR I

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3 hours ago, Biggs said:

Since Namath the highest ceiling for drafted Jets QB's with the exception of Pennington was roughly the height of a coffin.  

With the exception of Pennington?

He invented the phrase "glass ceiling".

SAR I

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase is not showing flashes of being a great offensive coordinator.  But he is showing flashes of being a great head coach and that's far more important.  Next year he'll hire his own DC and a new OC and concentrate on just being the HC like half of HC's in the NFL do and we'll be far better for it.

SAR I

SAR, honestly, are you being serious here or using sarcasm for effect?  Where were these "flashes" of greatness?  Both in Miami and with the Jets, Gase has shown that the job is beyond his ability.  

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

With the exception of Pennington?

He invented the phrase "glass ceiling".

SAR I

Pennington could actually play at a pretty high level before the injuries piled up and he no longer had any any zip on the ball. Was sad watching this downward spiral as well as the countless INTs on pathetic sideline throws.

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he Jets lost yesterday because of Adjustments or lack there of.

 The opposition adjusted in the second half by blitzing more. Our side never adjusted. Sam was pressured play in play out and the pass routes looked too long to develop. ( Gotta look at the tape, I know)

Typical Gase. What’s his excuse this time? It’s not like he was too busy making the offensive play calls. 

I wish he’d be fired but I see the writing on the wall, he ain’t going no where unfortunately.

So, who here feels confident that Gase won’t do to Lawrence what Gase has done to Sam? Will Gase actually scheme an offence for Lawrence that will emphasize his strengths or will it be theother way around?


The Johnsons are crazy if they hand over the Lawrence keys to this guy.

 

By the way, In the first half, they should have Scored at least three more points if it wasn’t for that dumb 4th and 1 in the shot gun playcall. ( Hello QB sneak?)

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17 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

In a perfect world?  Yes.  In the sad reality of acumen displayed by former NY Jets GMs?  JD might actually have thought this team as assembled could compete.  That would put him, and the team, on a trajectory toward a further disaster, which gets him fired after next season.  Time will tell, I guess.

For me, I felt like I saw every move he made throughout the off-season and, at each step - it was a guy cleaning house and planning to start over.  Signing mostly one-year cheap deals, letting our best players leave for small amounts of money, trading away our best players etc.  So I tend to believe this is the case..

With that said, Yes I agree.   I could be wrong and JD could simply be completely in over his head.  in that case the Jets are in a lot of trouble for the next 3-4 years - until JD's inevitable firing.

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From a NY Post article by the always heartwarming, NY Jets positive Steve Serby:

"Patrick Mahomes and old friend Le’Veon Bell are up next. Everyone is well aware that you can’t beat Mahomes and the Chiefs kicking field goals. Josh Allen and the Bills showed us that you CAN beat Sam Darnold and the Jets kicking field goals."

https://nypost.com/2020/10/25/it-just-keeps-getting-sadder-for-jets-sam-darnold/

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9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If there was any real shot at Lawrence staying in school what'd seal the deal is if he & his family learn the Jets will not be firing Adam Gase. 

So many things are about perception. This is no different.

  • There'll be a lot of such perception that Darnold was a great prospect who showed promise as a rookie despite the Bowles handicap, and then regressed under Gase.
  • Even if he could escape that perception, he can't when also faced with the damning turnaround from Tannehill. He was the QB who made a victim out of Gase, who was unfortunately saddled with the soft top 10 pick QB. Then Tannehill gets away from Gase and suddenly he's a top 5 QB. Moreover, he did it on an offense that was so bad I'm sure many Tennessee fans were then absolving Mariota for sucking. 

Right or wrong, and no matter how much it semi-absolves Darnold for not being a good QB in his own right, it'd be the height of stupidity to give Lawrence every impression that he will be a certain bust if he gets drafted here.

Firing Gase is a no-brainer. Keeping Gase would be a no-brains'er.

You would need a compelling reason to keep Gase instead of just wiping the slate, and he obviously hasn't given any such reason. That said, I don't understand why so much of Tannehill's performance in Tennessee is attributed to getting away from Gase. What about getting away from Mike Tannenbaum?

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5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

I actually had to go and look at the numbers Burrow has been putting up.  All of these factors, rankings, etc. and these are the statistics:

E4CEE644-F79E-45EE-8E77-FF7CFF222330.jpeg.317f10c6af241d7543e3496a6760112d.jpeg

Joe Burrow, through 7 games, has accounted for 12 total touchdowns (9 Passing, 3 Rushing), has completed 65+% of his passes, has amassed 2,100+ total yards, and has only committed 5 turnovers (5 INTs, 0 lost fumbles).  He’s provided all of this production while getting sacked 28 times so far.  He’s also in a situation that is as bad, if not worse, than Darnold has ever been in, and he’s putting up historic numbers.

Let’s take a look at the passing game logs, shall we?

836DFA3E-49CD-4BB0-824A-97A29917D75E.jpeg.3551e3fbb4416273a1233db2374121a3.jpeg

He’s thrown for at least 300 yards in every single game, except for one.  His NFL debut.  

If you go deeper, look at, and add the rushing statistics, he’s never accounted for less than 239 yards of total offense and has scored at least 1 touchdown in every game he has played.

By all means, those who are making excuses for Sam Darnold and pretending that Joe Burrow, or any young quarterback, wouldn’t be or won’t be succeeding here can keep doing so.  I just want you to know how ridiculous it is.  If Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields are as good as advertised, they will be just fine.  Especially after Joe Douglas spends some of that FA money and draft capital on the OL and skill positions.

And that's the trick. If JD spends a lot of that FA money and draft capital on good OL and skill players, then the next QB has a great chance of being fine. TL, Fields, Burrow, etc. They wouldn't have looked good this year either. 

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

And that's the trick. If JD spends a lot of that FA money and draft capital on good OL and skill players, then the next QB has a great chance of being fine. TL, Fields, Burrow, etc. They wouldn't have looked good this year either. 

Yup..

This is exactly right.

We're going to have, at least 3 picks in the top 35.  All of them should be on offense.  The two 3's should be offense too.  The top 5 picks the Jets make should be offense.

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59 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Gase is not showing flashes of being a great offensive coordinator.  But he is showing flashes of being a great head coach and that's far more important.  Next year he'll hire his own DC and a new OC and concentrate on just being the HC like half of HC's in the NFL do and we'll be far better for it.

SAR I

Gase ruined Sam.

Gase sucks

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1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

SAR, honestly, are you being serious here or using sarcasm for effect?  Where were these "flashes" of greatness?  Both in Miami and with the Jets, Gase has shown that the job is beyond his ability.  

Think of Bill Parcells.  Head coach with a very talented OC and DC.  Ask yourself, what was Parcells job, like what was his day-to-day like when he had Belichick and Weis running the D and O. 

And it's things like setting the tone, managing the culture, motivating the players, keeping the team focused, preventing locker room dissention.  Being the buffer between the players and the media.  Being the communicator between coaches and ownership.  And, most importantly, being the Football Man.  The one guy in the building that all look up to as the final word on football matters including player personnel and cap strategy.

That's what a good head coach does.  Half the teams in the NFL have pure HC's without playcalling responsibilities.  I contend that by trying to find an offensive guru for Darnold, we accidentally found a really good head coach, and that's far more important.  That's why Gase stays.  

SAR I

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1 hour ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

The opposition adjusted in the second half by blitzing more. Our side never adjusted. Sam was pressured play in play out and the pass routes looked too long to develop. ( Gotta look at the tape, I know)

Typical Gase. What’s his excuse this time? It’s not like he was too busy making the offensive play calls. 

I wish he’d be fired but I see the writing on the wall, he ain’t going no where unfortunately.

So, who here feels confident that Gase won’t do to Lawrence what Gase has done to Sam? Will Gase actually scheme an offence for Lawrence that will emphasize his strengths or will it be theother way around?

We have the worst roster in the NFL and it's injured.  There is no way to "scheme" our way out of this.  We have to draft our way out of this.  Sexy coaching and sophisticated routes would only make things worse.  The receivers don't get separation, they don't get open.  And on those rare occasions that they do, Darnold can't find them or throws a bad ball.

Gase is trying to get his three-legged horse to walk; you're expecting him to win the Kentucky Derby.  Expectations.  Mind yours.

SAR I

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53 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

For me, I felt like I saw every move he made throughout the off-season and, at each step - it was a guy cleaning house and planning to start over.  Signing mostly one-year cheap deals, letting our best players leave for small amounts of money, trading away our best players etc.  So I tend to believe this is the case..

With that said, Yes I agree.   I could be wrong and JD could simply be completely in over his head.  in that case the Jets are in a lot of trouble for the next 3-4 years - until JD's inevitable firing.

Gase and Douglas were brought here because Christopher Johnson is smart enough to know that this team has had the worst GM'ing in the NFL for a decade and has a dysfunctional structure.

Anyone who thinks they're not getting 3+ years as a tandem to evaluate talent together, manage the draft together, manage free agency together, and build a good organization together isn't paying attention.  All the signs are there.  It's quite obvious.

SAR I

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

With the exception of Pennington?

He invented the phrase "glass ceiling".

SAR I

This is one of the rare times where I FULLY agree with you.  Glass ceiling is an excellent phrase to describe Chadwick.  I couldn't stand the guy.

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11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Think of Bill Parcells.  Head coach with a very talented OC and DC.  Ask yourself, what was Parcells job, like what was his day-to-day like when he had Belichick and Weis running the D and O. 

And it's things like setting the tone, managing the culture, motivating the players, keeping the team focused, preventing locker room dissention.  Being the buffer between the players and the media.  Being the communicator between coaches and ownership.  And, most importantly, being the Football Man.  The one guy in the building that all look up to as the final word on football matters including player personnel and cap strategy.

That's what a good head coach does.  Half the teams in the NFL have pure HC's without playcalling responsibilities.  I contend that by trying to find an offensive guru for Darnold, we accidentally found a really good head coach, and that's far more important.  That's why Gase stays.  

SAR I

BB was obviously an amazing DC but IIRC it was Dan Henning who was successful as our OC.   Weis thought he was the next Parcells because he was fat, surly, and unkempt but, ultimately, he was not good at all (though made millions from BP and BB's reputations).

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15 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Gase ruined Sam.

Gase sucks

I am a big Sam fan.  I am undecided on Gase.

Believe me when I tell you, if I thought all we had to do was get rid of Gase to make Sam a franchise quarterback I'd do it in a heartbeat.  But it's not the case.  Sam just isn't good enough.  This guy has the intelligence of Sanchez and the body of Pennington.  

It's so funny how objectivity goes out the window and it becomes a personality contest.  If Gase were bubbly and funny and friendly and energetic, bouncing around the sidelines like Carroll or boisterous like Ryan, people would love him.  If Darnold were aloof like Rodgers and egotistical like Mayfield, people would hate him.  Look past the personalities, look at the abilities, Darnold just doesn't have it.  Gase does.

SAR I

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23 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Gase ruined Sam.

Gase sucks

This.

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15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

We have the worst roster in the NFL and it's injured.  There is no way to "scheme" our way out of this.  We have to draft our way out of this.  Sexy coaching and sophisticated routes would only make things worse.  The receivers don't get separation, they don't get open.  And on those rare occasions that they do, Darnold can't find them or throws a bad ball.

Gase is trying to get his three-legged horse to walk; you're expecting him to win the Kentucky Derby.  Expectations.  Mind yours.

SAR I

I don’t expect a Kentucky derby from a plow horse but I do expect adjustments from the head coach.

nothing. Not once during his Jet tenure has he come out in the second half Looking like a NFL head coach.  The guy gets out schemed constantly. The game was winnable yesterday but again...4 yards??? That’s unacceptable no matter who’s on your roster.

That’s why I hope that the Johnsons think long and hard about giving Gase the chance to Coach Lawrence. ( if we’re lucky to get him)

Don’t tell me that this doesn’t concern as well?

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