Say Goodbye to Sam Darnold

[Sonny Werblin]

Jets have to take Lawrence if they land the #1 overall pick because:

1) from a prospect standpoint, Lawrence is better than Darnold; and

2) Darnold is either a) broken and can be repaired, b) broken beyond repair; c) or a bust. The reality is we do not have the benefit of time to figure it out because Darnold will be entering his 4th year and the opportunity to pick a prospect like Lawrence comes around about once a decade - and only one team gets that opportunity;

3) The Jets would be doing Darnold a favor trading him to a team that believes in him and will give him the coaching he needs.  

Could anyone seriously argue that BOTH the Jets and Darnold would not be better off if the Jets drafted Lawrence and traded Darnold to the Steelers for a Second (or even Third) round pick? Frankly, I'd make it for a 2023 draft pick and have the condition that it becomes a first round draft pick if Darnold starts more than 11 games in 2022.  Since JD has proven to be a GM that does not banish players to bad situations (He traded Adams to a team on his list; outright released Bell to go wherever he pleased; and reunited McClendon with his favorite coach on a SB contender), I do fully expect him to try to trade Sam into a good situation. It will also alleviate JD's guilt for assuring Sam's parents that he will take care of him. So, I think when the time is right JD will trade Darnold into a good situation for him, where he can succeed, or fail, on his own merit.  

[More Cowbell]

23 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I am a big Sam fan.  I am undecided on Gase.

Believe me when I tell you, if I thought all we had to do was get rid of Gase to make Sam a franchise quarterback I'd do it in a heartbeat.  But it's not the case.  Sam just isn't good enough.  This guy has the intelligence of Sanchez and the body of Pennington.  

It's so funny how objectivity goes out the window and it becomes a personality contest.  If Gase were bubbly and funny and friendly and energetic, bouncing around the sidelines like Carroll or boisterous like Ryan, people would love him.  If Darnold were aloof like Rodgers and egotistical like Mayfield, people would hate him.  Look past the personalities, look at the abilities, Darnold just doesn't have it.  Gase does.

SAR I

Ok, do we need to go over the Gase career stats again. Do we need to point to the success of Tanenhill and Parker again once they got away from Gase. Do we need to point out his O got shut out by the Miami defense. If anything, Darnold is making Gase look better because the Bills D is better than the Fins and we scored 10 points. 

Let's also look at his HC style. Has Gase ever changed anything in his O during the 6 loses? Can you point to a solitary thing he changed in that stretch. I get it that the team is not talented and has injuries but does that mean you keep doing what isn't working every game? 

And again, it was obvious that Sam was Gase's number 1 job. He even talked about it himself. You keep talking about Sam having lunch with Palmer during quarantine. What was Gase doing during quarantine that was more important that making sure Sam was being prepared for the season?  Sam Darnold is not a perfect QB. His mechanics are questionable his decision making is suspect, and he is not an athletic freak we need to get away from the pass rushers he faces but he is a prototype NFL QB as far as body type, arm, ability to throw while running, and accuracy. We saw how accurate he can be on the pass on the first  qrt. Gase has done zero to mold an O that takes advantage of any of that. He is trying to fit Sam into an O that has finished in the bottom half of the league since he said goodbye to Peyton.

Sam is not the answer here and we need to move on but Gase greased the rails on that train. 

[CanadienJetsFan]

9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Ok, do we need to go over the Gase career stats again. Do we need to point to the success of Tanenhill and Parker again once they got away from Gase. Do we need to point out his O got shut out by the Miami defense. If anything, Darnold is making Gase look better because the Bills D is better than the Fins and we scored 10 points. 

Let's also look at his HC style. Has Gase ever changed anything in his O during the 6 loses? Can you point to a solitary thing he changed in that stretch. I get it that the team is not talented and has injuries but does that mean you keep doing what isn't working every game? 

And again, it was obvious that Sam was Gase's number 1 job. He even talked about it himself. You keep talking about Sam having lunch with Palmer during quarantine. What was Gase doing during quarantine that was more important that making sure Sam was being prepared for the season?  Sam Darnold is not a perfect QB. His mechanics are questionable his decision making is suspect, and he is not an athletic freak we need to get away from the pass rushers he faces but he is a prototype NFL QB as far as body type, arm, ability to throw while running, and accuracy. We saw how accurate he can be on the pass on the first  qrt. Gase has done zero to mold an O that takes advantage of any of that. He is trying to fit Sam into an O that has finished in the bottom half of the league since he said goodbye to Peyton.

Sam is not the answer here and we need to move on but Gase greased the rails on that train. 

If I were the Johnsons, I’d be scared sh*tless giving Gase the job of grooming Lawrence.

[More Cowbell]

31 minutes ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

If I were the Johnsons, I’d be scared sh*tless giving Gase the job of grooming Lawrence.

The Johnson's should feel that way about him PERIOD. 

[56mehl56]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Easy to say that when Burrow hasn't had to deal with a bad o-line as a rookie as well. 

Burrow's Oline isn't much better or maybe even worse than the Jets . If you want to argue talent at the skill positions then you may have a point.

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

And that's the trick. If JD spends a lot of that FA money and draft capital on good OL and skill players, then the next QB has a great chance of being fine. TL, Fields, Burrow, etc. They wouldn't have looked good this year either. 

It’s like you completely ignored every single thing that I wrote.

Absolutely amazing.

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

Burrow's Oline isn't much better or maybe even worse than the Jets . If you want to argue talent at the skill positions then you may have a point.

It is, statistically, much worse than ours.

[Losmeister]

5 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

You would need a compelling reason to keep Gase instead of just wiping the slate, and he obviously hasn't given any such reason. That said, I don't understand why so much of Tannehill's performance in Tennessee is attributed to getting away from Gase. What about getting away from Mike Tannenbaum?

it's a coincidental thing that people are attributing causation.

Tanny throws a 6 yd pass , end up a 77 yd TD. 

anyway....Tanny was playing welll b4 hegot hurt under GAse ind missed 19 straight games....

people just repeat whatthey hear, 

" Robby is a one trick pony. Robby has bad hands. Robby isnt tough"

(again, i never claimed Robbo was anything more than a SOLID wr2/3, a goo piece)

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

I don’t expect a Kentucky derby from a plow horse but I do expect adjustments from the head coach.

nothing. Not once during his Jet tenure has he come out in the second half Looking like a NFL head coach.  The guy gets out schemed constantly. The game was winnable yesterday but again...4 yards??? That’s unacceptable no matter who’s on your roster.

That’s why I hope that the Johnsons think long and hard about giving Gase the chance to Coach Lawrence. ( if we’re lucky to get him)

Don’t tell me that this doesn’t concern as well?

What I saw yesterday wasn't a failure of the Jets to make adjustments; I saw the Bills start blitzing and pressuring Darnold like crazy.  We went three-and-out four times and that was the game.  Nuances and adjustments can't be seen on three-and-outs, especially when plays can't develop because the QB has a Bill in his face in under 2 seconds.

Yes, I have concerns about Gase coaching Lawrence.  But he won't be.  He will hire a talented OC to handle Trevor's development and call the plays.  Gase will just be the HC.  Just like half the teams in the NFL. Coaches and playcalling coordinators don't have to be the same person, it's not working here, too much else to do.

SAR I

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Jets have to take Lawrence if they land the #1 overall pick because:

1) from a prospect standpoint, Lawrence is better than Darnold; and

2) Darnold is either a) broken and can be repaired, b) broken beyond repair; c) or a bust. The reality is we do not have the benefit of time to figure it out because Darnold will be entering his 4th year and the opportunity to pick a prospect like Lawrence comes around about once a decade - and only one team gets that opportunity;

3) The Jets would be doing Darnold a favor trading him to a team that believes in him and will give him the coaching he needs.  

Could anyone seriously argue that BOTH the Jets and Darnold would not be better off if the Jets drafted Lawrence and traded Darnold to the Steelers for a Second (or even Third) round pick? Frankly, I'd make it for a 2023 draft pick and have the condition that it becomes a first round draft pick if Darnold starts more than 11 games in 2022.  Since JD has proven to be a GM that does not banish players to bad situations (He traded Adams to a team on his list; outright released Bell to go wherever he pleased; and reunited McClendon with his favorite coach on a SB contender), I do fully expect him to try to trade Sam into a good situation. It will also alleviate JD's guilt for assuring Sam's parents that he will take care of him. So, I think when the time is right JD will trade Darnold into a good situation for him, where he can succeed, or fail, on his own merit.  

Yes, Sonny Dub, I've seen enough.  Time for Darnold to go.  Trade him now, get a couple of 2nd's and move on.  

Burrow, Murray, Herbert.....it's different now.  Colleges are running pro systems and pumping out pro quarterbacks in record numbers.  Sounds crazy to say, but finding a franchise quarterback is a lot easier in 2021 than it was even as recently as 2017.

SAR I

[BettyBoop]

9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What I saw yesterday wasn't a failure of the Jets to make adjustments; I saw the Bills start blitzing and pressuring Darnold like crazy.  We went three-and-out four times and that was the game.  Nuances and adjustments can't be seen on three-and-outs, especially when plays can't develop because the QB has a Bill in his face in under 2 seconds.

Yes, I have concerns about Gase coaching Lawrence.  But he won't be.  He will hire a talented OC to handle Trevor's development and call the plays.  Gase will just be the HC.  Just like half the teams in the NFL. Coaches and playcalling coordinators don't have to be the same person, it's not working here, too much else to do.

SORE I

 

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Ok, do we need to go over the Gase career stats again. Do we need to point to the success of Tanenhill and Parker again once they got away from Gase. Do we need to point out his O got shut out by the Miami defense. If anything, Darnold is making Gase look better because the Bills D is better than the Fins and we scored 10 points. 

I don't care about Gase in Miami.  It was a different situation.  Tannehill did very well under Gase in Miami when he was healthy.  Our O got shut out by Miami because they are a better team and we had Joe Flacco and no WR's.

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Let's also look at his HC style. Has Gase ever changed anything in his O during the 6 loses? Can you point to a solitary thing he changed in that stretch. I get it that the team is not talented and has injuries but does that mean you keep doing what isn't working every game? 

How can one judge Gase's creativity with Darnold busting/injured and all the WR's injured?  What Gase did recently was hand the playcalling over to his OC and that was a great sign of leadership and selflessness.  (FYI, if Gase was in fear of losing his job, he never would have done that.)

3 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

And again, it was obvious that Sam was Gase's number 1 job. He even talked about it himself.

It's not Gase, it's Sam.  It's clear this is a dead point now.  Sam is not a good quarterback.  Sucks for us, but he doesn't have it.  Gase is off the hook for "not developing him" because he's a bust.  Gives us hope that if we get a great quarterback, like Lawrence, Gase may very well be that whisperer we hoped he was.  

SAR I

[Sonny Werblin]

10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Yes, Sonny Dub, I've seen enough.  Time for Darnold to go.  Trade him now, get a couple of 2nd's and move on.  

Burrow, Murray, Herbert.....it's different now.  Colleges are running pro systems and pumping out pro quarterbacks in record numbers.  Sounds crazy to say, but finding a franchise quarterback is a lot easier in 2021 than it was even as recently as 2017.

SAR I

I became enamored with Darnold when he played great in the 2d half of the Rose Bowl and lead a comeback against PSU. I'm not sure if I would have been so high on him if he never had that game. I've been waiting 3 years for THAT guy to show up, and we can't wait any longer. It may not be Darnold's fault but it is what it is.

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

I don't care about Gase in Miami.  It was a different situation.  Tannehill did very well under Gase in Miami when he was healthy.  Our O got shut out by Miami because they are a better team and we had Joe Flacco and no WR's.

How can one judge Gase's creativity with Darnold busting/injured and all the WR's injured?  What Gase did recently was hand the playcalling over to his OC and that was a great sign of leadership and selflessness.  (FYI, if Gase was in fear of losing his job, he never would have done that.)

It's not Gase, it's Sam.  It's clear this is a dead point now.  Sam is not a good quarterback.  Sucks for us, but he doesn't have it.  Gase is off the hook for "not developing him" because he's a bust.  Gives us hope that if we get a great quarterback, like Lawrence, Gase may very well be that whisperer we hoped he was.  

SAR I

[SAR I]

4 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

This is one of the rare times where I FULLY agree with you.  Glass ceiling is an excellent phrase to describe Chadwick.  I couldn't stand the guy.

Time now to agree with this, TT:

The post-Maccagnan Jets are not about W's and L's.  They're about ending the dysfunction, bringing organizational stability, changing the culture, evaluating talent, moving expensive/old players, accumulating draft collateral, and righting the cap.  Finding out that Darnold is a bust in October is another great benefit, we can move him and get more picks.  Seeing Gase keep his cool and keep this team together and playing hard is another pressure test he's passing, no different than last year.

Stop looking at the W's and L's, you will be very pleased by the progress this franchise is making.  

SAR I

[rex-n-effect]

Darnold seems worse with every game. He reminds me of Sanchez but having had no winning years and in a hurry to get to the bottom of his career. 

I don't know if Lawrence will be great or generational or any of the other soaring things people say about him. Luck was supposed to be generational and he was never great and stopped playing early because he was getting physically destroyed. That could easily be anybody else talked about on that level. Despite that, he seems pretty good and even a consistently pretty good QB would be a huge upgrade for the team and something to build around. 

[TuscanyTile2]

37 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Time now to agree with this, TT:

The post-Maccagnan Jets are not about W's and L's.  They're about ending the dysfunction, bringing organizational stability, changing the culture, evaluating talent, moving expensive/old players, accumulating draft collateral, and righting the cap.  Finding out that Darnold is a bust in October is another great benefit, we can move him and get more picks.  Seeing Gase keep his cool and keep this team together and playing hard is another pressure test he's passing, no different than last year.

Stop looking at the W's and L's, you will be very pleased by the progress this franchise is making.  

SAR I

Eh, nope.  Not buying into that nonsense.  And again you predicted a division title and a 5-0 start for this team so you are clearly back-pedaling from your stance.  You also thought we were going to win the division last year btw.  To call 0-7 (soon to be 0-8) as "progress" is ridiculous.  Yes we are in the process of "bottoming out" and, sadly, it was needed.  But Adam Gase is part of the problem here and he will absolutely be part of the purge (and if I'm wrong about that then you can call me out on that prediction).

I do think we will recover a lot quicker than people expect though.  I say that due to our salary cap situation plus hopefully Trevor will help land us a high-quality HC.  Plus maybe the idiot Johnson brothers will finally realize how much they're embarrassing the franchise (very possibly the lowest point in this franchise's history - and that's saying something) and that it's time to leave football decisions to a football guy like Joe D.

 

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

And again you predicted a division title and a 5-0 start for this team so you are clearly back-pedaling from your stance.

I never predicted 5-0.  I said it was possible.  And it was back in July.  A lot has happened since then with trades, opt-outs, injuries, draft class on the shelf, and Darnold busting.

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You also thought we were going to win the division last year btw. 

And I was right.  If not for the injuries and the mono, we would have.  The Patriots and Bills were mortal.  Their playoff berths were not challenged because the Jets were an ill and injured mess.

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

To call 0-7 (soon to be 0-8) as "progress" is ridiculous.

Somewhere around Week 4 the team made the decision to tank and focus on the future.  We are doing a great job of that.  Trades, draft collateral, righting the cap, all while putting a team on the field that tries hard and has not quit on their coaches.  Of course this is a bad situation all around, but the villains are named Idzik and Maccagnan.  Douglas and Gase are trying to fix things.  W's and L's don't matter.  Their personnel actions and the attitude of the locker room does.

8 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I do think we will recover a lot quicker than people expect though.  I say that due to our salary cap situation plus hopefully Trevor will help land us a high-quality HC.  Plus maybe the idiot Johnson brothers will finally realize how much they're embarrassing the franchise (very possibly the lowest point in this franchise's history - and that's saying something) and that it's time to leave football decisions to a football guy like Joe D.

Joe D is clearly not a franchise leader.  He's not the Football Man at the top.  He's too young, he's too green, he's too mellow.  Adam Gase is that person.  And he's doing a very good job-  from a rebuilding perspective.  And that's really all that matters, especially now.  

SAR I

[BettyBoop]

45 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Stop looking at the W's and L's, you will be very pleased by the progress this franchise is making.  

SORE I

This could be the single stupidest thing SORE I has ever said.  And that's saying something!

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, BettyBoop said:

This could be the single stupidest thing SORE I has ever said.  And that's saying something!

There are many hard to choose just one. 

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

You would need a compelling reason to keep Gase instead of just wiping the slate, and he obviously hasn't given any such reason. That said, I don't understand why so much of Tannehill's performance in Tennessee is attributed to getting away from Gase. What about getting away from Mike Tannenbaum?

What did Tannenbaum do to him? Look MT isn’t the pinnacle of GM gooeyness - and technically wasn’t the GM in Miami - but he had a young FQB and they kept picking up pieces for him. Some worked out better than others, but these weren’t all idiotic acquisitions that only a fool would entertain.

In 2015 Miami:

• Got Tannehill a pro bowl LT in Brandon Albert
• Extended his pro bowl C, Pouncey, before he reached UFA status
• Already had Jarvis Landry; not sure how much credit I can give him for not trading him
• Added 27 yr old pro bowl TE Cameron (who clearly didn’t pan out)
• Added 23 yr old Kenny Stills
• Drafted DeVante Parker. Another who apparently did have talent, though it took until year 5 for him to fully show it.
• Drafted Ajayi. 
• Added 32 yr old Greg Jennings as a backup / spot starter. Wasn’t in his prime anymore but was still a ~800 yd WR until the year he arrived in Miami.

That was just 2015. 

• Then in 2016 they drafted Laremy Tunsil, and whiffed a bit on Drake & some WR I don’t at all remember.
• Ja’Wuan James was back healthy for 2016, but then Pouncey wasn’t.
• Picked up another veteran OLman in Bushrod. Not the pro bowler he once was, but he was 32 not 39.
• I’d say on paper at this point there was a damn solid OL in place on paper.

2017

• He traded Ajayi, who’s done pretty much nothing since then.
• Accepting that Cameron’s career was over, he added Orange Julius (still just 29 yrs old then). That lasted 1 forgettable year & then they drafted 2 TEs: Gesicki and a blocking TE who’s nominally been a starter. 

Also made some solid additions on defense, including drafting a great safety early without the safety being the only player worth a damn. Of course the team already had a QB and an OL and 3 starting WRs at when they pulled the trigger on Minkah. Not exactly the same as drafting a non-coverage safety before any of those pieces were in place. And Fitzpatrick wasn’t the only worthwhile defender they added under MT.

Compared to the 2015-2018 Jets offseasons under Maccagnan, this looks like a string of genius additions.

So yeah, it’s pretty hard to not point the finger at Gase as the boogeyman down there. Then they fired him and our FO filled with C- grade IQs said, “We should totally hire this guy!”

[carlito1171]

10 hours ago, CanadienJetsFan said:

If I were the Johnsons, I’d be scared sh*tless giving Gase the job of grooming Lawrence.

That’s called criminal activity 

[joewilly12]

15 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

That’s called criminal activity 

Hostile work environment.

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

That’s called criminal activity 

If Gase is still the Jets HC after Black Monday Lawrence isn’t coming out

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, Philc1 said:

If Gase is still the Jets HC after Black Monday Lawrence isn’t coming out

That's fine.  We don't want a franchise quarterback prospect who crawls away and hides from a challenge.

If the draw of New York and its bright lights and lifestyle isn't enough to make the kid want to come here, we don't want him.  Peyton Manning couldn't handle it.  Doesn't get much smaller than Indianapolis and Denver. 

SAR I

[Philc1]

Just now, SAR I said:

That's fine.  We don't want a franchise quarterback prospect who crawls away and hides from a challenge.

If the draw of New York and its bright lights and lifestyle isn't enough to make the kid want to come here, we don't want him.  Peyton Manning couldn't handle it.  Doesn't get much smaller than Indianapolis and Denver. 

SAR I