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Alka

Why does the offensive line still stink? Except Becton

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Because Douglas decided to be a cheapskate and brought in inferior players for less rather than pushing for premium positions - Ended up overpaying when trash like Fant is a marginal upgrade on Edoga, if even that. Decided to wait until the 4th to add any depth to the interior of the line, even getting the luxury project QB before doing do despite that probably being the most pressing need on the team.

Also the organisation having no accountability and leaving the same horrible coaching in place. Pollack at the very least should have been gone after last year's debacle of a line - The same sh*t happening - Missed assignments, doubling up on guys when another comes untouched. Moving on from Bilal Powell for literally no good reason. Just horrible failure from the top down. 

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9 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

Huh? 
 

Why can’t we do both? 

Because Ultimately the system doesn’t matter. You need good players.  If you put good players in a zone system they would be fine.  

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10 hours ago, Alka said:

Didn't Joe Douglas spend lots of money in free agency on upgrading the offensive line?  Why, in the second half against the Bills, did Darnold not have time to throw the ball?  It seemed like he had 1 second before multiple players from the Bills defensive line were in Darnold's face.

I mean, outside of getting a top 10 draft pick on the offensive line, "Are the Jets not capable of recognizing competent players for the offensive line?"

Why hasn't Clark gotten a chance to play?  Is Van Roten that much better than Clark?  

I am lost for words.  I feel like if Darnold got more time yesterday, the Jets might actually have been able to win the game.  Darnold had no chance in the second half, and in my opinion, that was not his fault.

 

No, he didn’t spend lots of money.  As I recall the top free agents signed elsewhere so Douglas had to settle for second tier players. What he did do is get better players even if top tier. The main issue is they haven’t played together much. On Sunday Lewis was out and a back up played and not very well.

i think Douglas wants to get his oline mainly through the draft. Clark should be playing if he’s healthy.

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1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

According to the advanced statistics, Sam Darnold’s average “time to throw” is 2.84 seconds, right around the league average.  He’s got plenty of time to go through his progressions.  He just sucks at doing it.

By all means, keep blaming the O-line though.

How is that time measured? Seems to me the oline gets pushed back quite a bit so defenders are within an arms reach and darnold has little or no space to follow through.

im not making any excuse for darnold just trying to find out how this time is measured.

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7 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:


Low hangin fruit joe.

It’s the blocking schemes and assignments . No ability to pick up blitzes even when we have more in to block than are rushing

Does it raise any eyebrows that McGovern is having his worst year under gase?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Yes, but we can say that about a couple of players on the team. 

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3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Holy crap that was long. Lol.

the office thats GIF

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4 hours ago, Mogglez said:

We got absolutely blown out by the Andy Dalton led Bengals last year.  Burrow would drop 35+ on us, no problem.

Either way, the question posed was how would Sam fare on that team compared to Burrow.  The answer is clear as day: he would be a lot worse.

Dalton owns the jets.  The bengals stink they just gave up 5 td passes to the sucky midget

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Holy crap that was long. Lol.

Now you know how we feel!

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12 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

That’s not even remotely true.  He went bargain hunting and this is what you get.

Very good interior lineman are a "catch 22".   You don't want to pay a lot for interior positions on the offensive line, nor do you want to draft them in the first round unless it is a prospect like Quenton Nelson or Nick Mangold.  But, at the same time, good interior offensive lineman are worth their weight in gold once they are developed.  So... What does that mean ??? Either you pay big money for a position you should not pay big money for, or you do the right thing and draft interior lineman *regularly* in rounds 5,6 & 7 and you develop the good ones and cut the ones that don't pan out.

In short, the only way to add interior lineman *smartly* is by bargain hunting in FA, or drafting and developing them yourself.  

JD has only had one off season and one draft.  His first effort laded the Jets with a potential HOF LT in Becton.  

He also did the best he could with what was available in the FA market without paying QB money to interior lineman.   

Give it a season or two with JD and you'll have a good line. 

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7 hours ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Well sure that why it's not the best but the scheme they are running is stupid. Needlessly complicated and ineffective plays that they are supposed to run result in exactly what they should result in, terrible blocking, if everything goes right which it never will and the opposition only runs the vanilla crap we would still have problems.

This line could be too half of the league with a simple and modern offense and use some very easy motion and extra blockers to to help.

Oh, hell yes... Agree 100 %.  A HUGE part of the problem with the line, the running game and the QB is the design of the offense... 

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19 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Holy crap that was long. Lol.

but damn good.  excellent assessment of the manpower on the line.  

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1 minute ago, THE BARON said:

Oh, hell yes... Agree 100 %.  A HUGE part of the problem with the line, the running game and the QB is the design of the offense... 

Change to a traditional blocking scheme and sign Brandon Scherff and Ty Nsekhe to upgrade the Right Side

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9 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:


So what do we make if this ya think?


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

I wish I knew.  Going back to the 60's, center was always a strength of the team. Schmidt, Fields, Sweeney, Mawae, Mangold...  Last five years has been rough.  A contributor to Sam's poor play for sure.

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3 hours ago, rangerous said:

How is that time measured? Seems to me the oline gets pushed back quite a bit so defenders are within an arms reach and darnold has little or no space to follow through.

im not making any excuse for darnold just trying to find out how this time is measured.

I need to understand that more too. Wonder if Sam scrambling for his life helps/hurts that stat as well. 

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10 hours ago, DarnoldHomer said:

Can you explain more here please? Curious.

The protections are schematic.  Gase employs a zone blocking scheme which requires a completely different mindset, assignement as well as even specific types of players to fulfill the requirements.  

I'm no coach so please don't get it twisted on my level of knowledge. I know some stuff but ya know... 

One thing I would point to is Mcgovern is literally 20 pts lower in his PFF grade from the rest of his career. Shell is doing well in Seattle after struggling here. Even Tom Compton is doing well for his new team.   Its not to say that some fault falls on the player of course,  but not being able to set up the protections to account for where the gaps will be in the play is a short fall of the scheme itself. 

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3 hours ago, maury77 said:

Yes, but we can say that about a couple of players on the team. 

Indeed we can. It's actually incredible how poorly players respond to Gase and how well they do after leaving him. 

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52 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I wish I knew.  Going back to the 60's, center was always a strength of the team. Schmidt, Fields, Sweeney, Mawae, Mangold...  Last five years has been rough.  A contributor to Sam's poor play for sure.

Absolutely.The JEts have a long tradition of strong center play.

I was fishing for the common denominator which is Gase.  :) 

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14 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Aside from the players, stupid 'small athetic olienman and zone blocking'  I hate zone blocking schemes.  Oh fine for the running game, awful for pass protection.

 

This is pure nonsense, where you decide since our OL sucks its because of zone blocking.  The Washington Football Team, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Kansas City Chiefs, Green Bay Packers, and Los Angeles Rams all teams that use zone blocking schemes

Theres no one hard rule, it can be effective, very effective.  We just dont have the players 

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

This is pure nonsense, where you decide since our OL sucks its because of zone blocking.  The Washington Football Team, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Kansas City Chiefs, Green Bay Packers, and Los Angeles Rams all run this way.  

Theres no one hard rule, it can be effective, very effective.  We just dont have the players 

If you fail on a passing assignment in zone blocking it is a free path to the Qb always.  If you have hof QBs that can escape massive pressure or one read it can work.

It is so tied to communication and playing together that if you have an injury or two you ar in trouble.

For the most part it sucks.  It certainly sucks for the jets.

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1 minute ago, Beerfish said:

If you fail on a passing assignment in zone blocking it is a free path to the Qb always.  If you have hof QBs that can escape massive pressure or one read it can work.

It is so tied to communication and playing together that if you have an injury or two you ar in trouble.

For the most part it sucks.  It certainly sucks for the jets.

Washington Football Team, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Kansas City Chiefs, Green Bay Packers, and Los Angeles Rams all use it.

Even with a journeyman QB and lack of talent Wash has 2 wins,.  The rest on the list are all top offensive teams 

Not seeing the scheme issue, seeing a talent issue as in we dont have much on offense and all of the above do.

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The line still "stinks" because you can't go from last to first overnight. It has dramatically improved from last year however. Alex Lewis is hurt (surprise) but is playing about up to expectations. We signed the top center in FA but he isn't living up to his previous play. The RG we picked up from the scrapheap is playing horribly but we will be able to get rid of him next year and our RT is playing up and down but overall below average. 

Hopefully the next couple of drafts we can address C, RT and hopefully one of the guard positions (assuming we don't pick up one of the more talented guards in FA this year). 

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15 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

He spent moderately and even when Darnold has time he holds the ball too long.

Darnold does not scan the field, he locks onto his receiver, and could have easily thrown 3 picks yesterday.

The line could be better, but he's a flawed QB and is part of why the line looks bad at times.

 

Good O-line or bad O-line, we all knew it was only a matter of time that Darnold was gonna throw a bad pick and change the outcome of the game.

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15 hours ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

He spent moderately and even when Darnold has time he holds the ball too long.

Darnold does not scan the field, he locks onto his receiver, and could have easily thrown 3 picks yesterday.

The line could be better, but he's a flawed QB and is part of why the line looks bad at times.

 

He never has a clean pocket. Sanchez was ruined because he never had a clean pocket. Every once in a while a QB has to buy time and make a play. Not 75% of the time he drops back to throw. Sanchez,and now Darnold are suffering some sort of ptsd. We ruined Sanchez. Now we're in the process of ruining Sam. Why would any QB out of college want to play here,considering that

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5 hours ago, Mogglez said:

According to the advanced statistics, Sam Darnold’s average “time to throw” is 2.84 seconds, right around the league average.  He’s got plenty of time to go through his progressions.  He just sucks at doing it.

By all means, keep blaming the O-line though.

That's a bullsh.. Stat. He almost never has a clean pocket to survey the field. He has jerseys in his face right after he makes his drops. 

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15 hours ago, Alka said:

Didn't Joe Douglas spend lots of money in free agency on upgrading the offensive line?  Why, in the second half against the Bills, did Darnold not have time to throw the ball?  It seemed like he had 1 second before multiple players from the Bills defensive line were in Darnold's face.

I mean, outside of getting a top 10 draft pick on the offensive line, "Are the Jets not capable of recognizing competent players for the offensive line?"

Why hasn't Clark gotten a chance to play?  Is Van Roten that much better than Clark?  

I am lost for words.  I feel like if Darnold got more time yesterday, the Jets might actually have been able to win the game.  Darnold had no chance in the second half, and in my opinion, that was not his fault.

 

Because Bozo Joe thinks a pair of pliers from the Dollar Tree are as good as the ones you get at Lowes.

He is Idzik 2.0

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Holy crap that was long. Lol.

Short version: Joe Douglas sucks?

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4 hours ago, rangerous said:

How is that time measured? Seems to me the oline gets pushed back quite a bit so defenders are within an arms reach and darnold has little or no space to follow through.

im not making any excuse for darnold just trying to find out how this time is measured.

Bunch of nerds who we're working at gamestop becore the pandemic coming up with that stat. Your excuse for Darnold isn't an excuse. It's a fact. And that fact ruined Sanchez. Now,it's ruining Darnold

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14 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Biggest disappointment so far has to be McGovern.  He was supposed to be better than he's shown.  Van Roten and Lewis have always been JAGs...  

McGovern was PFF = 71.9 last year and is 50.1 so far in 2020

 

Agree.  The thought was he might be a longer term answer.  Not the case.  Clear whiff by JD.

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12 hours ago, DarnoldHomer said:

20th out of 32 teams is good???? 

it's good enough to not get shut out

the worst part of this offense is the QB play but the play calling has also been atrocious 

and the scheme hasn't been good since Peyton Manning era 

the league has changed 

 

**

 

to answer the original question it's like half a  line right now. they need a new Right side

McGovern is a starter, probably at guard better than center. 

Lewis is fine, Fant, GVR and Andrews are backups that's the real problem.  Fant signing has been meh by the way. 

Becton, Lewis, McGovern is half a line. 

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Meh. He got the best tackle in the draft, yes. It’s also true 2 were already off the board so he had a 50/50 chance, not a 1 in 4 chance, of picking the best of the draft class. Becton was billed more of a boom/bust (otherwise he’d have been the consensus first one taken with his size+mobility) and good for us we finally hit on one of these. Hopefully his shoulder holds up for 10+ years. Free agency maybe McGovern alone was the best available at his position.

Given how Tristan Wirfs is playing - He pretty much couldn't miss.

Gettleman ensured we were getting a good player. 

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21 minutes ago, genot said:

He never has a clean pocket. Sanchez was ruined because he never had a clean pocket. Every once in a while a QB has to buy time and make a play. Not 75% of the time he drops back to throw. Sanchez,and now Darnold are suffering some sort of ptsd. We ruined Sanchez. Now we're in the process of ruining Sam. Why would any QB out of college want to play here,considering that

Because they will not feel like they have the obvious flaws the USC boys had in college, which translate to bad/non NFL QBs.

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