Why does the offensive line still stink? Except Becton

[Mogglez]

23 minutes ago, genot said:

That's a bullsh.. Stat. He almost never has a clean pocket to survey the field. He has jerseys in his face right after he makes his drops. 

It’s great that you think that.  Your opinion doesn’t make a fact wrong.

[genot]

1 minute ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

Because they will not feel like they have the obvious flaws the USC boys had in college, which translate to bad/non NFL QBs.

Bs Brooklyn. Sanchez had good mechanics, coming out of USC. He also was smart and good in the film room. Look at his first two years here. That was a QB who was a few steps away from being a top of the line QB. What happened. Our o- line went to hell in a handbasket, he almost got killed on MNF, by Nagati. And from then on he faced the same assault by defenders that Darnold is now facing. It ruined Sanchez,its ruining Darnold. Those flaws Darnold had we're easily fixable. Every team knew about them,and he still was considered a FCQB. 

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

It’s great that you think that.  Your opinion doesn’t make a fact wrong.

It's a pointless fact. If 5 Bills decide to encircle the QB for 5 seconds but agree not to touch him,does that mean the QB is at fault for not making a play?

[STLuLu]

34 minutes ago, genot said:

He never has a clean pocket. Sanchez was ruined because he never had a clean pocket. Every once in a while a QB has to buy time and make a play. Not 75% of the time he drops back to throw. Sanchez,and now Darnold are suffering some sort of ptsd. We ruined Sanchez. Now we're in the process of ruining Sam. Why would any QB out of college want to play here,considering that

You forgot to add Ken O'Brien to the list. So O'Brien, Sanchez, and now Darnold all have had some sort of mental issues. Besides playing for the Jets, all three have something in common...they all played for USC. So in other words, USC QBs are weak minded and we need not to ever draft a QB from there again.

[BornJetsFan1983]

10 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Next level delusion.  Nothing Sam Darnold has done in 3 years suggests that he can do what Joe Burrow is doing in Cincinnati, in his rookie year.  Absolutely nothing.

There is alot of plays that show it, hell just the last game there are throws he made like the one to berrios that are about as good as it gets...then other stuff lkenhis extending plays by running etc show great promise....burrow has it alot easier than darnold. It's delusional to think darnold is no good when he is surrounded by no talent and the terrible play calling. 

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, genot said:

It's a pointless fact. If 5 Bills decide to encircle the QB for 5 seconds but agree not to touch him,does that mean the QB is at fault for not making a play?

It’s not pointless.  His line is ranked 20th in the league in pass protection and he is right around league average in terms of “time to throw”.

Wanna talk about pointless?  Try your ridiculous hypothetical that would never happen.  

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

There is alot of plays that show it, hell just the last game there are throws he made like the one to berrios that are about as good as it gets...then other stuff lkenhis extending plays by running etc show great promise....burrow has it alot easier than darnold. It's delusional to think darnold is no good when he is surrounded by no talent and the terrible play calling. 

Burrow, as I’ve proven multiple times across multiple threads using statistics, roster analysis, etc., does not have it “a lot easier than Darnold”.  It’s not true in the slightest. 

I don’t care about one throw about Berrios.  I don’t care about his scrambling ability.  I care about the fact that he started out almost perfect, threw one boneheaded interception, and sh*t all over himself for the rest of the game.  I care that he misses wide open receivers right in front of his face for touchdowns.  I care that he still thinks throwing across his body, into triple coverage is still a viable play to make.  He’s a third year quarterback.  Those types of mistakes are on him, and he knows better.  He just isn’t good. That’s it.

[T0mShane]

<Darnold drops back, the gummy hits, he stares longingly into the void, pump fakes,  bumbles to his left for reasons known only to him, pump fakes, thinks about that gnarly curl off of Encino that dropped him in his head once, kinda sees a Jets receiver waving his hands in the end zone, thinks about texting his boy Cortes “that sand was tasty tho lolz,” casually throws ball into the turf and mentally refers to all his receivers as “Barneys”>
 

Jets fans: Cannot believe Douglas gave Greg Van Roten three million dollars!

[BROOKLYN JET]

23 minutes ago, genot said:

Bs Brooklyn. Sanchez had good mechanics, coming out of USC. He also was smart and good in the film room. Look at his first two years here. That was a QB who was a few steps away from being a top of the line QB. What happened. Our o- line went to hell in a handbasket, he almost got killed on MNF, by Nagati. And from then on he faced the same assault by defenders that Darnold is now facing. It ruined Sanchez,its ruining Darnold. Those flaws Darnold had we're easily fixable. Every team knew about them,and he still was considered a FCQB. 

What's done is done, I'm not going to rehash any of it. They both regressed, no matter who is to blame, it's time to move on. Hopefully they get it right this time.

[STLuLu]

17 minutes ago, genot said:

Bs Brooklyn. Sanchez had good mechanics, coming out of USC. He also was smart and good in the film room. Look at his first two years here. That was a QB who was a few steps away from being a top of the line QB. What happened. Our o- line went to hell in a handbasket, he almost got killed on MNF, by Nagati. And from then on he faced the same assault by defenders that Darnold is now facing. It ruined Sanchez,its ruining Darnold. Those flaws Darnold had we're easily fixable. Every team knew about them,and he still was considered a FCQB. 

For the most part, Sanchez had always had a decent O-line with the Jets. He just sucked when the Jets turned away from the running game and wanted him to be like Aaron Rogers and pass the ball 40-45 times. He couldn't process the coverages and go through his progressions like a QB of Roger's class can. Remember when Fitzpatrick first came here, he did well and the Jets went 10-6. That was the same O-line Sanchez had so who was the problem?

[genot]

3 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

<Darnold drops back, the gummy hits, he stares longingly into the void, pump fakes,  bumbles to his left for reasons known only to him, pump fakes, thinks about that gnarly curl off of Encino that dropped him in his head once, kinda sees a Jets receiver waving his hands in the end zone, thinks about texting his boy Cortes “that sand was tasty tho lolz,” casually throws ball into the turf and mentally refers to all his receivers as “Barneys”>
 

Jets fans: Cannot believe Douglas gave Greg Van Roten three million dollars!

A close friend,(and a really good jazz guitarist), whenever he heard a loud noise he jumped. Courtesy of a tour in Vietnam. When a QB is under continuous assault game in and game out, that ability to process information quickly can become very difficult. It doesn't absolve Darnold,when he misses an open receiver, or forces a throw to try and make something happen. It certainly makes it much more difficult to evaluate him,Though. Would QB X, or QBY,  perform better in the same situation. Who the hell knows?

[genot]

6 minutes ago, BROOKLYN JET said:

What's done is done, I'm not going to rehash any of it. They both regressed, no matter who is to blame, it's time to move on. Hopefully they get it right this time.

I don' t entirely disagree with you there. I just think it's pretty damn tragic when you think about it. I liked Sanchez,like Darnold. Good people that had their talents wasted by an inept organization 

[STLuLu]

20 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

There is alot of plays that show it, hell just the last game there are throws he made like the one to berrios that are about as good as it gets...then other stuff lkenhis extending plays by running etc show great promise....burrow has it alot easier than darnold. It's delusional to think darnold is no good when he is surrounded by no talent and the terrible play calling. 

First of all, Burrow doesn't throw dumb picks like Darnold does and he reads coverages and goes through his progressions were Darnold doesn't. That's an indictment on Darnold being he's a third year vet and Burrow is a rookie. Second, please enlighten us on how Burrow has it easier and what stud talent is he surrounded by? 

[Bruce Harper]

Clark has been hurt.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[bla bla bla]

15 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Jet fans were fooled into thinking because JD brought in a new OL it would be better.

Once again, anyone paying attention knew that not to be the case.

Other team’s back-ups were never going to become starter level players just because they were on the Jets.

New doesn’t mean better!

 

I mean we added a top 10 Center who has looked like the worst Center in the league. That should have been a signing we don't have to worry about, idk what happen there. That wasn't like Spencer Long or Ryan Khalil.

[peekskill68]

1 hour ago, STLuLu said:

You forgot to add Ken O'Brien to the list. So O'Brien, Sanchez, and now Darnold all have had some sort of mental issues. Besides playing for the Jets, all three have something in common...they all played for USC. So in other words, USC QBs are weak minded and we need not to ever draft a QB from there again.

Don't disagree with you on USC QB's sucking, but O'Brien went to UC-Davis

[Jetsfan80]

38 minutes ago, genot said:

I don' t entirely disagree with you there. I just think it's pretty damn tragic when you think about it. I liked Sanchez,like Darnold. Good people that had their talents wasted by an inept organization 

How did Sanchez do with the 4 teams he went to after the Jets?

[STLuLu]

2 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

Don't disagree with you on USC QB's sucking, but O'Brien went to UC-Davis

Ok. I stand corrected. 

[genot]

12 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How did Sanchez do with the 4 teams he went to after the Jets?

He was damaged goods. 

[SOJ]

Having had PSTD which took 15+years to get "per se" normal (and frankly I am still not and I am 70) , I can tell you if the guy sees the line crumbling or gets hit once (like six sacks, 11 hurries last week), I am telling you he can not perform. 

Sam had flaws coming out but they have been acerbated by this team's failure to coach him properly and help him get better.... sort of like the VA telling my buddy back in early 70s that agent orange was not carcinogenic, he died three years later from "C".    

You want TL, fine, but you better get better talent on the OL and WR, TE and RB or you'll be saying the same dam thing about him in a few years. 

[rangerous]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

This is pure nonsense, where you decide since our OL sucks its because of zone blocking.  The Washington Football Team, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Kansas City Chiefs, Green Bay Packers, and Los Angeles Rams all teams that use zone blocking schemes

Theres no one hard rule, it can be effective, very effective.  We just dont have the players 

that and the simple fact the players haven't played much together.  the jets can't make excuses for injuries but they've had more than their fair share and it's tough for an oline to play as a unit when the players keep rotating.

[Jetsfan80]

8 minutes ago, genot said:

He was damaged goods. 

So he was a soft wuss like Darnold then? 

Those mean old Jets!  How dare they make Sanchez bad at his 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th stops, too!

[Losmeister]

13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

85% of this roster is made of guys he drafted, signed, or re-signed.

is this literal, or are you guestimating? not being sarcastic.  i think you are off. but i could be off.

anyway...  the play of the Guards is what I see sucking. The 2 T's and C can play. 

We havent seen Clark, that'll be interesting.

[Losmeister]

24 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How did Sanchez do with the 4 teams he went to after the Jets?

People just make sh*t up....     

[Beerfish]

Sanchez and Darnold situations are not even close to comparable.

Sanchez walked into a team with a top oline, running game and defense and the gm added weapons for him quickly.

Darnold walked into a dreadful team with a dreadful Gm who had done nothing to help a young QB.  On top of that Rex and Shotty were 100 times the coach comb gase and loggains are and rex and shotty were not hof material either,

[slimjasi]

2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Sanchez and Darnold situations are not even close to comparable.

Sanchez walked into a team with a top oline, running game and defense and the gm added weapons for him quickly.

Darnold walked into a dreadful team with a dreadful Gm who had done nothing to help a young QB.  On top of that Rex and Shotty were 100 times the coach comb gase and loggains are and rex and shotty were not hof material either,

Agreed. 

Sanchez was the weak link of a very good NFL roster. Darnold is a weak link among a sea of weak links. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, genot said:

He never has a clean pocket. Sanchez was ruined because he never had a clean pocket. Every once in a while a QB has to buy time and make a play. Not 75% of the time he drops back to throw. Sanchez,and now Darnold are suffering some sort of ptsd. We ruined Sanchez. Now we're in the process of ruining Sam. Why would any QB out of college want to play here,considering that

[SayNoToDMC]

Because Becton looks like a brown dwarf star on the line compared to everyone else.  He's got 100+ pounds on everyone so just needs to get his hands on a defender.  There's not a lot to coach up.  The rest of the line sucks because they do

[TNJet]

2 words, Frank Pollack.

[genot]

17 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Sanchez and Darnold situations are not even close to comparable.

Sanchez walked into a team with a top oline, running game and defense and the gm added weapons for him quickly.

Darnold walked into a dreadful team with a dreadful Gm who had done nothing to help a young QB.  On top of that Rex and Shotty were 100 times the coach comb gase and loggains are and rex and shotty were not hof material either,

My point exactly. When Sanchez was drafted he played behind a good o-line,he played reasonably well. When the oLine started to badly falter,so did Sanchez. Agree with you on your other points.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Given how Tristan Wirfs is playing - He pretty much couldn't miss.

Gettleman ensured we were getting a good player. 

So I do give him credit, but how much to give? It's not like he had the foresight to know this was the best of the 4 and he took Becton with the other 3 still on the board. Maybe he would have anyway, but we'll never know. Luckily for us the team had too many holes, and the expense in doing so to high, to even consider trading up from #11 and potentially making the wrong choice. 

Plus that choice was not like 2017 where there were 3 QBs with top 10 grades and Chicago took the only not-awesome one (though still better than Darnold) off the board. Shooting fish in a barrel would be more difficult. And despite how desperate the team was for a QB, his predecessor took a box safety. That f***ing idiot. 

[genot]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There are other examples sperm. David Carr. Troy Aikmann was crap,until they upg. raded the o-line. Probably a dozen more examples of quarterbacks who played like s.  ,until they team improved their o-line. No

[bitonti]

43 minutes ago, SOJ said:

Having had PSTD which took 15+years to get "per se" normal (and frankly I am still not and I am 70) , I can tell you if the guy sees the line crumbling or gets hit once (like six sacks, 11 hurries last week), I am telling you he can not perform. 

Sam had flaws coming out but they have been acerbated by this team's failure to coach him properly and help him get better.... sort of like the VA telling my buddy back in early 70s that agent orange was not carcinogenic, he died three years later from "C".    

You want TL, fine, but you better get better talent on the OL and WR, TE and RB or you'll be saying the same dam thing about him in a few years. 

in all seriousness for you and every other JEts brother or sister suffering from PTSD they have done research in pharma specifically MDMA for PTSD and mushrooms for depression. 

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2020/10/9/21506664/psychedelics-mental-health-depression-ptsd-psilocybin-mdma

to bring this back to Darnold if having sack PTSD at 23 is actually his problem his job is worth millions of dollars he should seek treatment for it 

I suspect his real problem is he never had any fundamentals and the bad habits come out under duress - coupled with his sub-par NFL measurables he's just not that special and was overdrafted because of the Rose bowl and other garbage scouting. the JEts didn't Ruin Darnold he was never that good 

remember how his career started? with a pickle 6 

that's who he is a poor poor man's Brett Favre - blind to the field without the cannon arm to support all these back foot shenagans

 

 

[THE BARON]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

This is pure nonsense, where you decide since our OL sucks its because of zone blocking.  The Washington Football Team, New Orleans Saints, Seattle Seahawks, Kansas City Chiefs, Green Bay Packers, and Los Angeles Rams all teams that use zone blocking schemes

Theres no one hard rule, it can be effective, very effective.  We just dont have the players 

A cogent statement.... However, if you have offensive lineman that are more mobile and athletic as a unit, it usually follows convention that such a unit would perform well in a man blocking scheme.  The opposite for a line that is a brick wall.  

Considering the Jets manpower, they have a little of both and not much of either

I liked the Jets line best with respect to blocking scheme when Bill Callahan was with the Jets.  He uses a combo of zone and man.  I LOVED watching the Jets line run block in 2009-2010.  A ballet.  

Everyone loved the line with Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore & Woody, but they were used to an ideal by Callahan.  Perfect example of coaching and manpower in synergy

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Very good interior lineman are a "catch 22".   You don't want to pay a lot for interior positions on the offensive line, nor do you want to draft them in the first round unless it is a prospect like Quenton Nelson or Nick Mangold.  But, at the same time, good interior offensive lineman are worth their weight in gold once they are developed.  So... What does that mean ??? Either you pay big money for a position you should not pay big money for, or you do the right thing and draft interior lineman *regularly* in rounds 5,6 & 7 and you develop the good ones and cut the ones that don't pan out.

 

I wouldn't necessarily agree that solid starting IOL are the domain of the rd 5-7 range.  But I would agree that they can be found throughout the draft.  

Here are the 50 best IOL from the 2010-18 drafts (in order by where they were picked):

• G Quenton Nelson (2018 - pick 1.6)
• G Andrus Peat (2015 - pick 1.13)
• G Mike Pouncey (2011 - pick 1.15)
• G Zack Martin (2014 - pick 1.16)
• G Mike Iupati (2010 - pick 1.17)
• C Maurkice Pouncey (2010 - pick 1.18)
• C Ryan Kelly (2016 - pick 1.18)
• G Kyle Long (2013 - 1.20)
• C/G Frank Ragnow (2018 - pick 1.20)
• G David DeCastro (2012 - pick 1.24)
• G James Carpenter (2011 - pick 1.25)
• G Kevin Zeitler (2012 - pick 1.27)
• G Laken Tomlinson (2015 - pick 1.28)
• C Travis Frederick (2013 - pick 1.31)
• G Germain Ifedi (2016 - pick 1.31)
• G Will Hernandez (2018 - pick 2.34)
• G James Daniels (2018 - pick 2.39)
• G Zane Beadles (2010 - pick 2.45)
• G Joel Bitonio (2014 - pick 2.45)
• C Stefen Wisniewski (2011 - pick 2.48)
• C Mitch Morse (2015 - pick 2.49)
• C Nick Martin (2016 - pick 2.50)
• C Rodney Hudson (2011 - pick 2.55)
• C Cody Whitehair (2016 - pick 2.56)
• G Kelech Osemele (2012 - pick 2.60)
• C/G Ali Marpet (2015 - pick 2.61)
• C/G Justin Britt (2014 - pick 2.64)
• G Larry Warford (2013 - 3.65)
• G A.J. Cann (2015 - pick 3.67)
• G/C Pat Elflein (2017 - pick 3.70)
• G Dan Feeney (2017 - pick 3.71)
• G Brandon Brooks (2012 - pick 3.76)
• G Joe Thuney (2016 - pick 3.78)
• G Gabe Jackson (2014 - pick 3.81)
• G John Miller (2015 - pick 3.81)
• G Trai Turner (2014 - pick 3.92)
• G/C Graham Glasgow (2016 - pick 3.95)
• C Ben Jones (2012 - pick 4.99)
• G Clint Boling (2011 - pick 4.101)
• G Daryl Williams (2015 - pick 4.102)
• C Shaq Mason (2015 - pick 4.131)
• G Mark Glowinski (2015 - pick 4.134)
• C Corey Linsley (2014 - pick 5.161)
• G Marshall Newhouse (2010 - pick 5.169)
• C/G Brandon Fusco (2011 - pick 6.172)
• C/G Wes Schweitzer (2016 - pick 6.195)
• C Ted Larsen (2010 - 6.205)
• G Bradley Bozeman (2018 - pick 6.215)
• C/G Austin Blythe (2016 - 7.248)
• G Andrew Norwell (2014 - UDFA)

 

For the 50 IOL above, here's the breakdown:

• 1st rounders:  15 (30 %)
• 2nd rounders:  12 (24 %)
• 3rd rounders:  10 (20 %)
• 4th rounders:  5 (10 %)
• 5th rounders:  2 (4 %)
• 6th rounders:  4 (8 %)
• 7th rounders/UDFA:  2 (4 %)

16 % coming from the 5th round or later isn't too bad of a hit rate, but certainly its not the "sweet spot" of the draft to find IOL.  

Fortunately, only one of the solid IOL came from a top 10 pick, and 9 from the first 20 picks.  Our Seattle first rounder, based on draft history, should be a great spot from which to find a quality IOL.  Rounds 2-4 are also very good bets.