Clemson QB Trevor Lawrence hints at returning to school for his senior year

[Philc1]

2 hours ago, Mogglez said:

This is the true story.  Peyton and Archie wanted Peyton to come here. That doesn’t fit the narrative of a miserable person though.

Thanks Bill!  He literally drafted James Farrior over Peyton Manning 

[Philc1]

15 hours ago, jgb said:

This narrative is going to only accelerate -- media loves the angle that the Jets got "spurned" by Peyton and Belichick -- both in the GOAT discussion for their respective positions. We're just going to have to endure it.

Still think odds are very good that we get #1, draft Lawrence, and he signs.

But I also don't think it's being a "pessimist p***y" -- to use some of the more colorful language thrown around here -- to speculate that the odds of Travor pulling an Eli/Elway/Steve Young/Bo Jackson/Peyton are not 0%.

We spurned Peyton.  Belichick spurned us after a 5 minute phone call with Woody Johnson the incoming owner

 

If you didn’t see this with Lawrence coming from a mile away I don’t know what else to say 

 

[Philc1]

12 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

What? No, can’t be! Most everyone’s here says it’s already a done deal - Jets are guaranteed to have the 1st pick and they are guaranteed to have Tevor under center next season. 

Until Belichick starts Jared Stidham in both games facing us

[TomTom]

Didn’t Peyton go back to Tennessee with the prospect of the Jets having the pick?!?

[Scoop24]

2 minutes ago, TomTom said:

Didn’t Peyton go back to Tennessee with the prospect of the Jets having the pick?!?

No peyton went back to school cause Parcells wouldn’t commit to taking him #1. 

[JustInFudge]

9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I've said it, others have said it.  @JiF has said it.  Fields in the mind of more than a few has a chance of being the better pro.  I'd take Lawrence with the 1st, primarily because of being 6' 6" and his W/L record but theres a hell of a lot to like about Fields game.  Hell, @Mogglez and I have gone back and forth on it and he LOVES Lawrence

Is that what you were doing while you were telling me I'm wrong?  

lol 

[JustInFudge]

11 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

In truth Fields might end up being better then Darnold... No happy feet!

Darnold is/was no where near the prospect of Fields.  So this shouldnt be a surprise. 

Darnold was a nobody in High School, ranked like 8th in his position, 179th overall nationally.  Only got 11 offers, all Pac10 garbage.  (only SEC team to give him an offer was Tenn. before their resurgence). 

Justin Fields was getting offers his Freshman year of High School.  He received 39 (every single powerhouse in the country made him an offer)  He was #2 QB, #2 overall nationally, only player ranked ahead of him, Trevor Lawrence.  

We are not comparing apples to apples.  Night and day difference.  Sam was never good destined to fail.  Whereas, Fields has always been good projected to greatness.  

[jgb]

5 hours ago, Paradis said:

cmon dude...  i like your 2 cents - even when it's opposed to mine,, because it's usually based in some semblance of logic. I've never thought to myself - man, jbg is on crack. Sometimes admittingly i've strongly disagreed, but never questioned where you're coming from. Different schools of thought is good. Truth is only discovered through an arduous process of vetting what it isn't....  I've felt the same about Jet nut a few times too lol... but we can't start alienating each other during a rock bottom season. There's bound to be differences in perspective... look at this sh*t show team we cheer for! Multiple schools of thought  is inevitable... 

I guarantee many of us frequent flyers would be arm in arm if things were going well - for more than just the obvious reasons. The how and why regarding the Jets journey to the bottom is riddled with head shakers.  

I’ve disagreed with everyone here. But I’m not going to argue over a plainly verifiable fact. People are free to deny reality as much as they want—and I’m free not to waste my time.

”No one has ever said Peyton spurned Jets”

Googles — Jets Peyton Manning — first result, ESPN article headline “Peyton spurned Jets.”

”Yeah well that’s just the headline.”

Anyone who can’t concede at least an inch on that — “ok, fair, I guess some in the media do press that angle although I think it’s BS,” for example — simply isn’t worth bothering with.

[jgb]

4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

We spurned Peyton.  Belichick spurned is after a 5 minute phone call with Woody Johnson the incoming owner

 

If you didn’t see this with Lawrence coming from a mile away I don’t know what else to say 

 

I don’t see it coming... but I sure wouldn’t be surprised

[Scott Dierking]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

Darnold is/was no where near the prospect of Fields.  So this shouldnt be a surprise. 

Darnold was a nobody in High School, ranked like 8th in his position, 179th overall nationally.  Only got 11 offers, all Pac10 garbage.  (only SEC team to give him an offer was Tenn. before their resurgence). 

Justin Fields was getting offers his Freshman year of High School.  He received 39 (every single powerhouse in the country made him an offer)  He was #2 QB, #2 overall nationally, only player ranked ahead of him, Trevor Lawrence.  

We are not comparing apples to apples.  Night and day difference.  Sam was never good destined to fail.  Whereas, Fields has always been good projected to greatness.  

For those that want some of the perspective on Justin Fields, on Netflix theres is  a documentary, 'QB1". It follows 4-5 high school seniors that are nationally ranked. Fields was highlighted in season 2 I believe. 

It is a great series.

[Jet Nut]

13 minutes ago, JiF said:

Is that what you were doing while you were telling me I'm wrong?  

lol 

Hey, I never told you that you were wrong, I explained why people feel the way they do about TL, why he is so talked about. 

Fields has all the makings of a really good NFL QB.  Im not crying if we get him, especially if it were because Lawrence goes full pussy and doesnt want to play in big bad NY.  

[sec101row23]

Here are the actual comments in context.  
 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

17 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

Correct. He will never recoup 2021 NFL salary, and can't make it up on the backside of his career. That is about $25m of lifetime money.

Yeah that’s what was thinking as well: the “extra” year he loses will be his final NFL $ year, since he’ll still start out on a rookie scale his first 4 years either way. Given NFL inflation, that final one will surely be in excess of $25MM, some 12-18 years from now (if he’s all that). 

Each contract thereafter would be the same in theory, though tbh he’ll be in a better position to take advantage of veteran contract inflation by putting it off (all other things being equal). Getting his first veteran extension after 4 seasons from now would theoretically be for a lower amount than if it came after 5 seasons from now.

e.g. if Mahomes came out a year earlier and got an extension after his 3rd season, it wouldn’t have been for 10 yrs x $45MM; it surely would have been for much less. Perhaps it would have been not only at a lower rate, but also for fewer years, like a normal 4-6 year extension at $38-40MM. Then he’d have cashed in on contract #3 some 5 years earlier, at a higher rate than the balance of his deal that paid a $45MM avg. Maybe he’s a bad example because of the unusual length of his extension, but I’m trying to pick the superman-on-steroids player comparison Lawrence is pegged as being. But if he would have (a year earlier) signed $40MM x 5 yrs, then he’d be in a position to perhaps get the second half of that contract at $55MM or more per year. That’d yield a higher 10-year total, plus it’d be a second wave of 3 more fully guaranteed seasons.

The problem with all my sub-amateur, pseudo-actuarial analysis attempt is all other things are not equal.

If the Steelers trade their 1st round pick in 2021 for someone’s 1st rounder in 2022, and that becomes “The Lawrence Pick” it’s not a hard argument to make that his career (and in turn, his career earnings) will be far greater that way, as opposed to getting taken #1 by the Jets in 2021. 

If you want to talk about NFL salary he can’t make up on the backside of his career, consider that our last very high pick QB, before Darnold, is most remembered for running into his guard’s backside. Point being his veteran contracts might be lower for the Jets than for someone else. They might be significantly lower if he’s surrounded by poor play; never mind if it gets him badly injured along the way. 

Then again this is more money than he can probably spend so it’ll be invested, and can anyone (let alone a QB) seriously time the next extended markets/economy crash? If he gets in a year early, even if/when it eventually bounces back I don’t think you mathematically ever recover from the interest/growth you failed to earn by riding wave on its way down, as opposed to first getting in while it’s already down. Just saying there are other factors at play that could be part of an equation 4-5 years down the road, though he won’t be able to see it coming in Feb/Mar 2021 when he has to make his decision final.

So what does all this mean in the end? Nothing, really. I just like typing out the sound of my own voice.

[Greensleeves]

1 hour ago, TomTom said:

Didn’t Peyton go back to Tennessee with the prospect of the Jets having the pick?!?

No! Parcells not only cost us Peyton Manning because he wouldn't give Archie the assurance he would be picked #1 overall, but he cost us Bellicheck too. He was one of the worst influences on the Jets history - can't think of anyone worse at the moment.

[Sonny Werblin]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

This is the true story.  Peyton and Archie wanted Peyton to come here. That doesn’t fit the narrative of a miserable person though.

 

Quote

 

Did Parcells fumble ball in dealing with Manning?

Vito StellinoTHE BALTIMORE SUN

 

Bill Parcells, the coach, may have trouble winning for Bill Parcells, the general manager.

That's because Parcells didn't come off as a shrewd operator in the Peyton Manning affair, the first major situation he faced since joining the New York Jets.

When Manning's father, Archie, recently called Parcells, they played a version of don't ask-don't tell. Manning was too polite to ask Parcells if he would draft his son and keep him.

"There was an indication they really liked Peyton, and he seemed certain that Peyton would be the first pick, but I wasn't inclined to ask him in February if he was definitely going to take Peyton," Archie Manning said.

 

The surprising thing is that Parcells didn't tell him that he'd pick Manning and keep him.

"Archie called me one time, but it never got to a situation where we got to discussing it. I've known Archie quite a while. We spoke one time and that was it. I never really got into it too much about Peyton. We just talked about certain situations.

"I had no sense of what he was going to do and I wasn't trying to find out," Parcells said.

Parcells probably didn't want to promise Manning that he wouldn't trade him in case he got a blockbuster offer. But he risked Manning's not coming out, and that's what happened.

Manning obviously figured if there was a chance he'd get traded somewhere he didn't want to go, he'd stay in school and take his chances next year.

Of course, there's no guarantee Manning would have come out even if Parcells had promised not to trade him. But it was strange for Parcells not to even make a pitch for him.

"Quite frankly, I hadn't given it too much thought," Parcells said. "I'm too busy trying solve some of the other problems I have here right now."

It's hard to imagine what's more important than a shot at the decade's best quarterback prospect. It's not as if this draft is loaded with prospects. The next highest-rated player is left tackle Orlando Pace, but the last time an offensive lineman was taken with the first selection was in 1968, when the Minnesota Vikings picked Ron Yary.

 

Since Parcells likes defensive players, he may even bypass Pace -- who will work out for scouts Friday -- for Southern Cal defensive tackle Darrell Russell.

There's always the chance Parcells may get one more chance at Manning.

When Archie Manning called Parcells back last week to tell him Peyton was staying in school, Parcells told him, "Heck, we may have a chance at him next year."

Manning said, "No, you're not going to have the first pick."

Parcells replied, "You haven't seen our defense."

Moving down

Since Manning won't be in the draft and the Ravens are no longer likely to get Florida State defensive end Peter Boulware with the fourth selection, it seems more likely they'll trade down for extra picks.

They've had talks with the Seattle Seahawks, who have the 11th and 12th picks in the first round and are interested in moving up to take cornerback Shawn Springs.

Ravens coach Ted Marchibroda likes the idea of extra picks because "the strength of this draft is the second through the fourth rounds."

Since the Ravens have Antonio Langham at one corner and Marchibroda said DeRon Jenkins is ready to start at the other one, Marchibroda's not keen on taking a cornerback in the fourth slot and there won't be any pass rushers rated that high after Boulware.

The loss of center Steve Everitt also means the team will have more money to spend on free-agent defensive players.

The Philadelphia Eagles, who had $11 million in cap room, front- loaded the Everitt deal with a $4 million cap number the first year.

Even if Everitt had given the Ravens the chance, they would have had problems matching that figure despite being fourth in the league in cap room with $6.3 million.

The Ravens, though, have only 32 players signed, the fewest in the league (the Jets are second-lowest with 43) so they still have to be prudent in their spending.

But Everitt's loss does give them more flexibility in looking at defensive players.

For example, they're taking a long look at San Diego Changers pTC end Raylee Johnson, who already has visited the Ravens. He's a pass-rush specialist, and that's their top priority.

After losing Pittsburgh Steelers free-agent defensive end Ray Seals to the Carolina Panthers last week, the Ravens still will be looking for pass rushers.

The rules

Although instant replay is the issue the fans care about at this week's owners' meeting, the one that concerns the owners the most will be the debate about whether to change the cross-ownership rules to allow Wayne Huizenga to remain as the Miami Dolphins owner and Paul Allen to buy the Seahawks.

This debate will focus on the question of whether the NFL is going to keep changing its rules to meet certain situations.

Buffalo Bills owner Ralph Wilson is adamant that they shouldn't change it.

"It's the last rule, the last bastion. I'd like to see the league stand for something," Wilson said. "We can defend this thing. I've been told by some top-flight people this is a rule we can defend.

"If they want to come into the league, let them sell their other franchises. Sometimes change is not the best way to go. We've got one rule left. That's cross-ownership. I'm for defending it. We've thrown out practically everything else."

Wilson is still annoyed that the league didn't fight the move of the Los Angeles Rams to St. Louis.

"We wilted there. That opened the floodgates," he said. "We could have defended the guidelines. I don't know why the commissioner changed in 30 days [the owners turned down the Rams' move in March 1995 but approved it a month later]. We probably got threatened.

"I call it the fast meltdown. Any time anybody threatens us, our knees start shaking. Sometimes you've got to stand up and take a position on something."

Wilson raised the question of how the advertising revenue will be allocated to each sport when the same owner has two teams in the same stadium.

He then said under the league proposal, "Any dispute goes to the commissioner, no thanks."

Since many owners favor Huizenga and Allen coming into the lodge, this will be a spirited debate.

The rivalry

When the Ravens play the Washington Redskins at their new Prince George's County Stadium this fall, it won't have much significance to the Redskins fans.

Because many of them follow the Orioles, they don't have any particular rivalry with a Baltimore team, especially not compared with their rivalries with the Cowboys, Giants and Eagles.

But it obviously means a lot to owner Jack Kent Cooke, who has made it obvious he wants nothing to do with the Ravens.

When Ravens owner Art Modell suggested in Annapolis last week that the two sides play an exhibition each year, the Redskins' answer was that they want different opponents each year so their fans can see a variety of teams.

This is obviously a new policy, because the Redskins played the Steelers eight times in nine years from 1986 through 1994 and even played Modell's Cleveland Browns three times in four years from 1990 to 1993.

Pub Date: 3/09/97

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1997-03-09-1997068188-story.html

 

 

[Greensleeves]

A mentally tough athlete with great skills shouldn't shy away from a challenge like Deon Sanders did. He couldn't wait to go from a really good team to another really good team instead of trying to make a team that really needed him into a contender (Atlanta). I can't stand this type of athlete. We should turn this around on them and get something out there that goes viral on how many top athletes in the NFL didn't want the challenge of making a lesser team great. After Deon, I'll add Jamal Adams...

[Jolot]

He’s coming out this year and playing for whoever drafts him #1 overall. This is a non story , why do you guys keep buying into this ? Be better . 

[Sperm Edwards]

Headline from October 24, 2017:

Sam Darnold reportedly unlikely to leave for NFL Draft

 

lolz

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Hey, I never told you that you were wrong, I explained why people feel the way they do about TL, why he is so talked about. 

Fields has all the makings of a really good NFL QB.  Im not crying if we get him, especially if it were because Lawrence goes full pussy and doesnt want to play in big bad NY.  

You used the word "wrong" numerous times but I wont go rehash the old, it's all good, I've shown you the light and now you can see and that's all the matters.

You are welcome.

[ChuckkieB]

I understand that Jets fans just eat up these nothingburger stories because being a Jets fan has taught us to adapt a "the sky is falling" view to protect us from further damaging our already stomped on and beaten up hopes and dreams for this team. Normally I am with you all, but not for this.

I will keep repeating this over and over and over  - There is no way on Gods green earth that Trevor Lawrence will go back to Clemson and leave a 40 million dollar contract on the table. That's 40 million he will never get back in earnings no matter how much insurance he gets on himself or how long his NFL career eventually is. It's the equivalent of ripping up a lottery ticket.  No one in his inner circle will be insane enough to advise Lawrence to do that.  No one.    

 

[Jetsfan80]

12 hours ago, jgb said:

I dunno -- they also say "money can't buy happiness" but almost no one gives it all away.

Per studies, money can indeed buy happiness until you make about $75,000+ per year (on average....this number could be $50K+ in Alabama, $150K+ in NYC).  Once you get above that level it doesn't really impact your happiness much.  No matter what @SAR I tells you otherwise.

People who make the blanket statement that it can't buy happiness simply don't know the misery of people living in poverty.  It's awfully hard to be happy with unclean water, occasional spurts without electricity, poor education and healthcare, etc.  I.E. basic needs someone like me (who grew up middle/upper middle class in the suburbs) took for granted growing up.

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

What do you think about Parcells opening the end zone doors in Giants stadium to make it harder for opponents to kick FGs?

There's a pretty massive difference between "gamesmanship" (that you're describing with Parcells) and institutional, pervasive cheating the way the Patriots did it for two decades.  No one cares that the 49ers got "creative" with the salary cap in the 80s and 90s, and rightly so.  But the two decades of completely sh*tting on the rules, that they were warned not to break, puts the Pats in a completely separate category.

Similar to the way sign stealing is part of the game in baseball, but the way the Astros and Red Sox went about it crossed a line.  And yes, there is a line.  It's not all shades of gray.  

And for some reason, the city of Boston in particular embraces a cheating culture.  Probably due to poor moral fiber.  I mean, this was the last city to integrate in baseball.  Red Auerbach was pretty dirty with this stuff too.  Setting off fire alarms for team hotels at 3 AM the night before big games was a classic example.  His stuff fell more on the "gamesmanship" side, but still.  Hell, they still have the snowplow from the Pats' "snowplow game" in a Boston Hall of Fame wing.  They f**king love cheating up there, and I never give any of their teams the benefit of the doubt when accusations start flying.

[jgb]

34 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There's a pretty massive difference between "gamesmanship" (that you're describing with Parcells) and institutional, pervasive cheating the way the Patriots did it for two decades.  No one cares that the 49ers got "creative" with the salary cap in the 80s and 90s, and rightly so.  But the two decades of completely sh*tting on the rules, that they were warned not to break, puts the Pats in a completely separate category.

Similar to the way sign stealing is part of the game in baseball, but the way the Astros and Red Sox went about it crossed a line.  And yes, there is a line.  It's not all shades of gray.  

And for some reason, the city of Boston in particular embraces a cheating culture.  Probably due to poor moral fiber.  I mean, this was the last city to integrate in baseball.  Red Auerbach was pretty dirty with this stuff too.  Setting off fire alarms for team hotels at 3 AM the night before big games was a classic example.  His stuff fell more on the "gamesmanship" side, but still.  Hell, they still have the snowplow from the Pats' "snowplow game" in a Boston Hall of Fame wing.  They f**king love cheating up there, and I never give any of their teams the benefit of the doubt when accusations start flying.

Just as long as we agree we've talking about degrees here and we're not some wilting flowers who shun any and all rule-breaking.

I still think all -- or nearly all -- of us would be defending Belichick if he never left and did the same stuff here with the same results.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Just as long as we agree we've talking about degrees here and we're not some wilting flowers who shun any and all rule-breaking.

I still think all -- or nearly all -- of us would be defending Belichick if he never left and did the same stuff here with the same results.

He knew he's never have the success here (or at least not the success he had in NE) with the Johnson's in charge.  

[Spoot-Face]

11 hours ago, jgb said:

What do you think about Parcells opening the end zone doors in Giants stadium to make it harder for opponents to kick FGs?

I wasn't aware of that until now, but sure, that's sh*tty.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He knew he's never have the success here (or at least not the success he had in NE) with the Johnson's in charge.  

He took the measure of the man in seconds and cut the eff out.

[Jetsbb]

3 hours ago, Jolot said:

He’s coming out this year and playing for whoever drafts him #1 overall. This is a non story , why do you guys keep buying into this ? Be better . 

Why do you say this? Put yourself in the kids shoes. All he is hearing is what a dumpster fire the Jets organization is and that he has the leverage to pick where he wants to go. Why wouldn't he do that?

[Scott Dierking]

1 minute ago, Jetsbb said:

Why do you say this? Put yourself in the kids shoes. All he is hearing is what a dumpster fire the Jets organization is and that he has the leverage to pick where he wants to go. Why wouldn't he do that?

Please, illuminate what this leverage is.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Why do you say this? Put yourself in the kids shoes. All he is hearing is what a dumpster fire the Jets organization is and that he has the leverage to pick where he wants to go. Why wouldn't he do that?

[Jetsbb]

5 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Please, illuminate what this leverage is.

Are you serious? We have seen Joe Douglas already cave to players demands when they publicly say they don't want to play for the team. Levon gets to play for a Superbowl contender and still get fully paid by the Jets just by publicly criticizing them. That's all it seems to take. Have you even watched the espn shows like first take? They are eviscerating the jets with zero push back. Trevor is being persuaded by a vindictive media to spurn us and its working.

[Scott Dierking]

7 minutes ago, Jetsbb said:

Are you serious? We have seen Joe Douglas already cave to players demands when they publicly say they don't want to play for the team. Levon gets to play for a Superbowl contender and still get fully paid by the Jets just by publicly criticizing them. That's all it seems to take. Have you even watched the espn shows like first take? They are eviscerating the jets with zero push back. Trevor is being persuaded by a vindictive media to spurn us and its working.

I asked you a specific question. You did not answer it. What leverage does Trevor Lawrence have if the Jets have the number one draft pick?

[ToonforPrez]

1 hour ago, Jetsbb said:

Are you serious? We have seen Joe Douglas already cave to players demands when they publicly say they don't want to play for the team. Levon gets to play for a Superbowl contender and still get fully paid by the Jets just by publicly criticizing them. That's all it seems to take. Have you even watched the espn shows like first take? They are eviscerating the jets with zero push back. Trevor is being persuaded by a vindictive media to spurn us and its working.

JD met JA'S demand because he was an absolute disease in the locker room not because Jamal intimidated the man . Bell was not coming back regardless if he left this year or the off season . JD got back 3 picks for this Franchises future and TL is and will be apart of that Future because there is no way a kid out of college turns down $40 mil on a slotted rookie deal as well as the bright lights of NYC and the Aura of winning a SB and you are king for life .

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

You used the word "wrong" numerous times but I wont go rehash the old, it's all good, I've shown you the light and now you can see and that's all the matters.

You are welcome.

I said you’re wrong in thinking I felt that way.  I just tried to explain why people see TL as they do.  Maybe I wasn’t clear enough.  
I still think the jury isn’t out, the season isn’t over yet, not even close.  And there’s a huge side of my mind thinking he has too many strengths that match the pro game, especially 2021’s NFL 

Nobody showed me the light

[Jetsbb]

1 hour ago, Scott Dierking said:

I asked you a specific question. You did not answer it. What leverage does Trevor Lawrence have if the Jets have the number one draft pick?

Yes I did answer it. His leverage is announcing he doesn't want to play for the Jets and if he is picked he will sit out and enter the draft the following year. I guarantee you 100% Douglas caves to his demands because he has shown he will cave the two times it happened.

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Nobody showed me the light