Joe Douglas deserves the opportunity of time

[jgb]

JD is the best candidate we've had at GM under the Johnsons -- maybe ever. And they paid a fortune to get him -- I hope the Johnsons are waking up to the fact you get what you pay for and don't go the Cheap Charlie option yet again at HC.

[JoJoTownsell1]

3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I think he should absolutely have the time he needs to prove himself and we should be patient.

But there is certainly reason for concern.  

The team has gotten worse since he took it over and he's had a handful of bad FA signings.  As of now, Bechton is the only success he can point to.

 

Fair enough and I am not going to suggest that the plan for this year was to tank for Lawrence (although it's certainly possible) but none of his moves could have been perceived as attempting to build a winning team this year. Letting Anderson go and trading Adams pretty much proves that he was trying to rebuild this team through the draft. 

It's also been pretty clear that Douglas  has been slow-rolling the rookies. Yeah, they have been hurt but it definitely seems like JD is not rushing any of these kids into the lineup.  

[slimjasi]

Agreed. 

[68JET11]

3 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

"how the hell do I get Adam Gase out of here"

[nycdan]

Just now, 68JET11 said:

"how the hell do I get Adam Gase out of here"

It's either that or "How the hell do I get Joe Douglas out of here".  I hope you are right.

[68JET11]

2 minutes ago, nycdan said:

It's either that or "How the hell do I get Joe Douglas out of here".  I hope you are right.

Most of the fanbase would agree.... it's how does he get AG out of here.

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Fair enough and I am not going to suggest that the plan for this year was to tank for Lawrence (although it's certainly possible) but none of his moves could have been perceived as attempting to build a winning team this year. Letting Anderson go and trading Adams pretty much proves that he was trying to rebuild this team through the draft. 

It's also been pretty clear that Douglas  has been slow-rolling the rookies. Yeah, they have been hurt but it definitely seems like JD is not rushing any of these kids into the lineup.  

I agree with just about all of this.

It is my opinion and has been for just about the entire pre-season that JD was cleaning house.  I too doubt he was tanking for Lawrence but he wasn’t attempting to build a competitive team either.  Wins and losses this year was NOT his priority.  

This was a clear-out all the dead weight and accumulate picks year.  The rebuild starts next year.  Which is why I’m really not down on JD at all, I just don’t think we know anything about him yet.   What we know is he’s capable of cutting and trading, but we don’t know if he’s capable of building.

If he drafts a defensive player with any of our top 3 picks next year then I will be very down on him.  

#1 overall  - QB,   Seattle pick - WR/OL,   #33 overall - WR/OL.  If he does that, to me, it tells me he knows how to build a team.  That, at worst, he understands what it takes to win in today’s NFL.

 

[CanadienJetsFan]

I’m willing to wait.

 

[BornJetsFan1983]

3 hours ago, Scott Dierking said:

The New York Jets have had 8 (EIGHT!) General managers over the past 29 years. That makes the average tenure slightly over 3.5 years. Hardly the stuff that represents a hallmark of continuity. In fairness to the knee jerk reactions of Jet ownership, scant few of those GM's represented established personnel guys. That also is their failure. Let's review the record, at least under the Johnson's watch:

2001-2005- Terry Bradway- The Johnson's, neophytes as they were, actually looked in the right direction for a start. They hired a personnel guy with a personnel background. It is too bad that he was a stuffed shirt. He was in over his head. Traded UP for Dewayne Robertson. He drafted a kicker in round 2. He traded out of the first for Doug Jolley. He let Lavaraneus Coles run away. To compound the Johnson's error of keeping Bradway so long at GM, after sacking him at that position, they allowed him to stay on in the organization through the 2014 season. Bradway continued to have say in the Jets draft room. 

2006-2012-Mike Tannenbaum-By this time, the Johnson's thought they were starting to figure football out. When in doubt, hire someone with roots to the Parcells/Bellichick tree. What can go wrong? A capology guy, and we like money and being smart. Tannenbaum's previous genius had created the poison pill in acquiring Curtis Martin. To be fair, Tannenbaum's tenure can be called the best under the Johnson regime. That bar is low. Not a personnel guy.

2013-2014-John Idzik- Idziks background? Salary cap management and contract negotiations. I guess the Jets liked this type, because they had some modest success with Tannenbaum. Hey, if you don't know anything, go with what you know, right? He was a bookish, non-communicating failure. Not a personnel guy.

2015-2018-Mike Maccagnan- A Charlie Casserly advised hire, and a friend of Casserly. Prior to the Jets, during his last incarnation with the Texans he was noted to be "quiet and unassuming". Hardly the stuff that oozes leadership. Prior to the Jets announcement, his last 3 drafts at talent evaluation had produced no Pro Bowlers and a handful of starters for Houston. The Texans had won 2 division titles in 2011/12. A personnel guy, but not much of a leader.

Which brings us to the Jets most recent hire, Joe Douglas. His pedigree? A football lifer:

-A Tackle at the University of Richmond, became a volunteer assistant there after graduation.

-Then joined the Ravens as a low level assistant He was The Turk on Hard Knocks in 2001. Worked his way up to becoming National Scout under Ozzie Newsome. 

Do you want to know what was once the joke franchise, and the national laughing stock? The former Cleveland Browns/Baltimore Ravens. You know which owner was despised more than the Johnson's are with the Jets? Art Modell, by both fanbases.

During Douglas' tenure with the Ravens, the team turned around and has won 2 Super Bowls and been a model franchise.

-Douglas then went for a brief (1 year) jaunt to the Bears, becoming Director of College Scouting.

-Then, in 2016 he joined the Eagles as GM Howie Roseman's top assistant.

You want to know another franchise that was tortured and felt bereft by incompetence for decades? The Philadelphia Eagles. With Douglas' input, the Eagles went on to win the Super Bowl in 2017.

So why does Joe Douglas deserve our patience? He is a personnel guy that was on the cusp of being a GM somewhere. He was a wanted and a known commodity in NFL circles. What former Jet GM has had those credentials recently? He has been a large part of 2 organizations that climbed the summit and won. Two franchises that were doormats, and then created the infrastructure for continued success. 

Joe Douglas knows the blueprint for success. He knows the parts that are needed in order to build off that blueprint. He was left with a house that needed to be demolished. It was basically condemned. The Home Depot truck is just starting to back up with supplies and parts to build the foundation. You have to start somewhere.

Joe Douglas knows football. He knows how successful franchises should be built with the goal being long term success. Not a flash in the pan. Continued success with a plan. He is a personnel guy at heart. 

Are we guaranteed anything? No, of course not. And the Johnson's may interfere. But give him a chance and see where we are at the beginning of the 2022 season.  Aren't we tired of knee jerks and bandaids?

 

what a great post. We have a guy that is basically doing it the right way, and just cause you do it the right way doesn't mean overnight success, but you can see the improvements from day one. You can see from the draft he did improvements, from his contracts, and even the players he is going after - specifically our areas of need that have been neglected. But most importantly not only the player he goes after but also getting rid of players that are on bad contracts - shipping Jamal after he sh*t on the team, getting linemen in here on smart contracts...

I'm just say this was a great break down and Idzik who so many trash literally did the right thing in unloading all the bad contracts, his problem was restocking the shelves - somethign he never really got the chance to do because of the terrible draft but the judgement is still out on Joe D.

Cause it looks right now like he gets the contracts part, and the draft part. And his approach seems like he is building hte roster the right way, the only real knock on him is the coaching staff and that might not really be up to him. SO time will tell but if he can replace gase and the training room staff we might have for the first time in HJets history one of the best Gm's in the league.

[nycdan]

39 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

Most of the fanbase would agree.... it's how does he get AG out of here.

I meant that's what Joe was thinking.  Not me.

[nycdan]

34 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree with just about all of this.

It is my opinion and has been for just about the entire pre-season that JD was cleaning house.  I too doubt he was tanking for Lawrence but he wasn’t attempting to build a competitive team either.  Wins and losses this year was NOT his priority.  

This was a clear-out all the dead weight and accumulate picks year.  The rebuild starts next year.  Which is why I’m really not down on JD at all, I just don’t think we know anything about him yet.   What we know is he’s capable of cutting and trading, but we don’t know if he’s capable of building.

If he drafts a defensive player with any of our top 3 picks next year then I will be very down on him.  

#1 overall  - QB,   Seattle pick - WR/OL,   #33 overall - WR/OL.  If he does that, to me, it tells me he knows how to build a team.  That, at worst, he understands what it takes to win in today’s NFL.

 

I broadly agree but there are always extenuating situations.

If we are looking at a mid-1st round Edge talent against an early 2nd-round WR/OL talent, and with 2 picks so close together most likely, I won't kill him for going 1 DEF, 1 OFF with those two picks.  But all things being equal, Offense has to take priority.  Also, while OL/WR are the obvious needs, we do also need just about everything else including TE and RB1.  So a lot of this will hinge on Free Agency.  If we sign Thuney or Scherff, and maybe Clark comes on this season, then OL becomes less of an urgent need for those picks.  

I guess all I'm saying is there is a lot of time between now and the draft and things may look rather different by then.

[rex-n-effect]

He's been given a completely dysfunctional roster and the one piece that was supposed to be worthwhile is turning out to be a huge turd. Anybody in that situation has to be given a lot of leash to turn things around. 

I am not in love with what he's done so far but I don't hate it, either. Like others have said really waiting to see how he builds the team. 

[Jetster]

While we’re at 0-7 it’s very easy to blame a lot of it on Sam Darnold. 
His inability to see the field & convert 3rd downs puts enormous pressure on our already bad defense, which is much worse as it tires. 
He missed 2 games because he didn’t see a wide open WR, held onto the ball too long & got whipped into the ground. 
The Line, though not top grade, isn’t playing as poorly as they are portrayed. Gase knows it, JD knows it, the players know it & you can be damn sure Sam Darnold knows it.

You don’t hear a peep out of Sam. He has to sit through those meetings & see those stop motion pictures of open guys he isn’t seeing. Believe this, Sam knows he’s not playing well & regressing, maybe pressing because he knows damn well he’s not playing well enough for us not to do a reset with a Trevor Lawrence & trade his ass. He really is playing lousy. 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

The issue here is the GM of the Jets is not an overly powerful or important position in the structure. Yeah Douglas puts together the draft board...but other than that, it’s just not a position of influence. He’s a background guy with a small team of scouts. The Johnson’s have the coach taking the brunt of the criticism while whoever fills the GM seat works in the background. Jets fans always have more confidence in the GM than the coach and the Johnson’s like that bc it’s easier to replace a coach. We can give Douglas time and hope he drafts better players than Maccagnan did, but overall he’s pretty much the same guy with the same authority. 

And you know this how?  HC and GM talk to the owner means what?  You don’t even know if it’s still true, it was said CJ changed it.  Who even cares, other team work the same way
JD is in the background of scouts?  You can’t make this up

[Losmeister]

2 hours ago, lounap23 said:

JD will have time regardless of what the fanbase thinks or wants.  He definitely deserves it.   He has 1 draft under his belt and outside of the injury Bechton looks like a LT that should have gone higher than he did and we got him at 8.  Now the injuries that has been though out this class is concerning. Alot we can say about it lasck of mini-camps, - lack of real training camp and preseason games, and of course GASE but I won't say that (opps guess I did).   Though I think Pernine is showing he can play in the league at a good level and maybe better if Gase wasn't here.  Seems like reports on guys we haven't seen yet like Clark and Zuniga have been promising.  Davis has been ok.  I can say this I haven't really seen him do anything on defense that's hurt the team.  No he isn't Jamal Adams but he looks like he his playing well.  

 

Long story short JD gets the right Coaching staff, plus 10 draft picks in 2021 and the 2nd most cap space in the NFL and this franchise will can go from a laughing stock to very competitive quickly and 2022.   Think the 4-12 2016 Rams and then the hiring of McVay and then proceeding to go 11-5 in 2017 to 13-3 in 2018.  A similar trajectory. Finishing 0-16 this year to 7-9 next year to 11-5/12-4 in 2022.  

 

The key is the coaching staff.   Jared Goff isn't a good QB but McVay knows how to coach to what he can do.    Josh Allen, I don't care what his numbers say, is still not a good QB but McDermoth knows how to coach and gameplan to what he does do well and make him look great.   Darnold/Lawrence won't make a difference.  Get the Coaching staff in that knows what the hell they are doing with the QB they have and either will be successful.  Can you guys imagine what Allen would look like under Gase.   GHEWWWWW

 

But with all that said I like JD and I believe in him. 

makes a lot of sense...

for me, the thing is....if Samjust played average...   instead of way below avergae...

ya know, FO DVOA?  what would THAT look like.

2018 -16%     2019-  -15%     

I saw a QB who left very makeable plays on teh field game after game for 2 years.

Does anybody doubt for a millisecond that Herbert and Burrow woulda gotten more from Robbo??

dont read this as a defense of GAse. DGAF aboutGase. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 hours ago, Kolchak said:

FWIW, from down here in Eagle country, the fans did not want to lose Douglas.  They would've preferred we took Roseman. 

Of course they also threw snowballs at Santa, so there's that.

And look at what has happened to the Eagles since Douglas left.  Gotta be at least some truth to the idea that he was instrumental to their success.

Meanwhile, I'm pretty sure the Texans packed Maccagnan's office and drove him to the airport.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Pac said:

Has anyone seriously expressed a desire to move on from JD?

@Irish Jet

[Larz]

The Johnson’s will not be firing a GM on a 6 year deal until year 5 at the earliest 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, nycdan said:

I broadly agree but there are always extenuating situations.

If we are looking at a mid-1st round Edge talent against an early 2nd-round WR/OL talent, and with 2 picks so close together most likely, I won't kill him for going 1 DEF, 1 OFF with those two picks.  But all things being equal, Offense has to take priority.  Also, while OL/WR are the obvious needs, we do also need just about everything else including TE and RB1.  So a lot of this will hinge on Free Agency.  If we sign Thuney or Scherff, and maybe Clark comes on this season, then OL becomes less of an urgent need for those picks.  

I guess all I'm saying is there is a lot of time between now and the draft and things may look rather different by then.

I can understand if you go Edge or Corner with the later pick I guess - but I still feel pretty strongly that you gotta go offense.

Especially if you take a QB #1 overall - at that point your job is to build him up.  

Give him everything he needs to learn the game, build confidence and play well.  

Sure, you might lose a lot of games because your defense sucks - but give the QB a few years to become a legitimate NFL threat and then put some resources into the D if you need to.  If all goes well the young QB, at that point, should be ready to carry the team without all of the resources committed to him.

As far as I’m concerned, everything JD does should start with the question - “Does this help Trevor?” 

[Gibby]

11 hours ago, SAR I said:

Bingo.

And Adam Gase too.  The entire point of Christopher Johnson's strategy is to slow things down, bring continuity, bring stability, bring a cohesive strategy.  That doesn't get done in 1 year and 1 draft.

If you want a franchise as stable and respected as the Steelers or Ravens, you have to set yourself up and behave like the Steelers or Ravens.  And that's what we're doing.  The knee-jerk SOJF's have to get used to the fact that we're not firing HC's and GM's every time they squeal on social media.  They're going to have to buy-in.

SAR I

Meh. I’ll agree with @GREENBEAN . If Gase is still around next year- then Douglas can follow him out the door when they fall flat on their face.

[varjet]

3 hours ago, Larz said:

The Johnson’s will not be firing a GM on a 6 year deal until year 5 at the earliest 

I think, based on recent experience, the Johnsons have graduated from eating 1 year to eating 2 years on coach and GM contracts, which is not good.  

[batman10023]

10 hours ago, DJF71 said:

Jesus he is a fat fuvk now.

Kids and stressful job can do that

[Wonderboy]

12 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

Momma told me there’d be days like this.      

Ladies & Gentlemen

The Legendary Van Morrison

 

[CanadaSteve]

13 hours ago, Untouchable said:

 

What, the Khalil signing last year? It didn’t work out but I don’t exactly blame him for trying. W

Well, you see, according to about a couple dozen posters on here, after signing Khalil and Vedvik missing two field goals, Joe Douglas was to be FIRED and never given a chance to draft he was sooooo bad!

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 hours ago, Gibby said:

Meh. I’ll agree with @GREENBEAN . If Gase is still around next year- then Douglas can follow him out the door when they fall flat on their face.

Except it's not Douglas' decision. He has no power to fire Gase.  Gase does not report to Douglas.  The Johnsons have to fire him.  Hopefully Douglas convinces them Gase has to go and that the next coach should be hired by and report to Douglas.