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Sean Payton

Sean Payton  

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  1. 1. What pick(s), if any, would you be willing to give up in a trade for Sean Payton?

    • The Seattle 1st rounder, plus a 2022 first rounder
      2
    • The Seattle 1st rounder, plus another high pick
      6
    • The Seattle 1st rounder, plus another midround pick
      3
    • The Seattle 1st rounder
      10
    • A 2nd rounder, plus another pick
      2
    • A 2nd rounder
      5
    • Something less than a 2nd rounder
      9
    • I have zero interest in trading for Sean Payton
      49


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It seems pretty clear to me that the end of the 2020 season will be a very good time for Sean Payton and the Saints to part ways.  Drew Brees is basically toast, or close to it.  The team's star WR is causing problems.  And most importantly, the team is projected to be $78M over the cap next year.  A complete tear down is coming for that franchise.  Payton may opt to retire, but at 56, it's probably a safer bet that he'll look to make a fresh start elsewhere.

The problem is, his contract runs thru 2023.  Meaning we're talking about a trade being necessary to acquire him.  In that light, what would be the maximum trade compensation you'd give up to acquire Payton as the next HC in 2021?

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It's a moot point.  Sean Payton ain't going nowhere.

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I'd give up the Seattle pick and then some. 

Proven big time HC, great offenses every year, big personality with experience coaching in New York, and here's the big one - he's only 56 (so he could be here for a decade if things worked out)

Now, here's the one caveat: I imagine Payton would want some control over personnel - So I sort of doubt Douglas would bring in a guy like that. Payton would be a Johnson & Johnson move and that would be iffy with Douglas here. 

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1 minute ago, peebag said:

It's a moot point.  Sean Payton ain't going nowhere.

The Saints need draft capital as they completely tear down.  Payton likely has little interest in being there for that.  It at least makes some sense.

It's a long season that's going nowhere.  Humor me.

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Arguably a genius designing offenses.  But WTF is he going to accomplish with the JAG-minuses we have on this team? Nothing.  Even if we draft Lawrence and he pans out, we are YEARS away from competing for the division let alone the conference.

Also, like Belicheat with Brady, how good will he be without a HOFer like Drew Brees?   Plus, acquiring Payton would be another case of the Jets signing a HC whose best days are most likely behind him.  

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6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Saints need draft capital as they completely tear down.  Payton likely has little interest in being there for that.  It at least makes some sense.

It's a long season that's going nowhere.  Humor me.

Exactly why he'd never consider this place......this job 100x harder.

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Don't believe in trading picks for coaches -- ever. It's a terrible waste of resources. There are plenty of good coaches out there for the taking. You just have to do your homework to find them.

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4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You see this everywhere, so I'm not singling you out, but I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Teams flip the script very quickly in the NFL.

This team needs a lot of talent, but we have plenty of picks and cap space over the next few years to turn things around quickly, assuming we have a good GM (that's the key). 

For starters, if Lawrence is as good as people say he is, you would immediately notice a difference in the competitiveness of the offense. More big plays, very few dumb interceptions, etc. Then you add another premium draft pick on the OL and another premium draft pick at WR and you are already on to something. Combine this with the a big culture change, and there is no reason this team could not be 7-9/8-8 next year. 

The notion that "team X is years away from being respectable" is usually BS in the NFL, IMO. 

The 49ers went from 4-12 in 2018 to 13-3 and a Superbowl in 2019 with Lynch and Shanahan...

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Just now, BroadwayRay said:

Don't believe in trading picks for coaches -- ever. It's a terrible waste of resources. There are plenty of good coaches out there for the taking. You just have to do your homework to find them.

So, you were against the Jets trading for Parcells? 

How do you think Pats fans feel about all of the resources they lost trading for the right to hire Belichick? 

 

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13 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Arguably a genius designing offenses.  But WTF is he going to accomplish with the JAG-minuses we have on this team? Nothing.  Even if we draft Lawrence and he pans out, we are YEARS away from competing for the division let alone the conference.

Also, like Belicheat with Brady, how good will he be without a HOFer like Drew Brees?   Plus, acquiring Payton would be another case of the Jets signing a HC whose best days are most likely behind him.  

 

Teddy Bridgewater looked fantastic under Sean Payton when Brees was hurt.  As did other QB's under his watch when he was an OC, including Kerry Collings (2000-02 / NYG), and the aging corpses of Vinny T and Drew Blesdoe (2004-05 / DAL).  Even Quincy Carter was serviceable (2003 / DAL).  

Payton has had too much success for too long to question whether he can succeed with a young QB.  He's on the level of Andy Reid.  We can't afford to "get cute" with this next HC hire, and Payton would be a slam dunk if we have a shot at him.

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1 minute ago, peekskill68 said:

The 49ers went from 4-12 in 2018 to 13-3 and a Superbowl in 2019 with Lynch and Shanahan...

Bingo.

And we don't even have to look that far west. We can look back at our own franchise's history to see how much better the 1997 Jets were than the 1996 Jets . . . 

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8 minutes ago, section314 said:

Exactly why he'd never consider this place......this job 100x harder.

lol

He doesn't want to be part of a rebuild with a new QB in New Orleans. That's why he'd rather play for the Jets, who will probably be rebuilding with a new QB, and generally surrounded by a bunch of players Payton doesn't know, never coached, and probably need to be replaced themselves.

Also the Saints' owner/GM would have to come to the decision that the HC they liked enough to reward with a 5 yr $50MM extension last year has less than that of a late 1st round pick, which ultimately means he has half of the value of Jamal Adams lol.

@Jetsfan80 I may have to change your username to JetsfanIQ80 for this thread, brother. :rl: 

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1 minute ago, slimjasi said:

You see this everywhere, so I'm not singling you out, but I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Teams flip the script very quickly in the NFL.

This team needs a lot of talent, but we have plenty of picks and cap space over the next few years to turn things around quickly, assuming we have a good GM (that's the key). 

For starters, if Lawrence is as good as people say he is, you would immediately notice a difference in the competitiveness of the offense. More big plays, very few dumb interceptions, etc. Then you add another premium draft pick on the OL and another premium draft pick at WR and you are already on to something. Combine this with the a big culture change, and there is no reason this team could not be 7-9/8-8 next year. 

The notion that "team X is years away from being respectable" is usually BS in the NFL, IMO. 

I posted in another thread about 5 teams in the last 15 years that went from horrible records to winning records in a single season.  SF just went from 4-12 to 13-3.  A few years before, KC went from 2-12 to 11-5.  DAL and JAX have also done this in the past few years.  It's one thing about the NFL I like is that a team can really turn things around in a single season if certain things go right.  It's hard, but possible.

IF we can add a Thuney or Scherff at OG, and use at least one of the two picks we have between SEA and our 2nd rounder to bring in an offensive weapon (WR, TE or RB), AND a new HC who knows at least something about football, then we have gone a long way towards making this team competitive.  That's without any other FA moves or draft picks.  Maybe we can add Allen Robinson in FA as well.  We certainly have the cap room.  The 2021 Jets will look very different from the 2020 Jets.  We could have a dozen new starters.  

But the most important change will be the coaching staff.  I'm not sure if Payton makes sense, but if you offered me a choice between Gase, or trading our 2nd round pick for Payton with no other options, it's a no brainer.  Make the trade.  Honestly, the absolute worst thing we could do is stay with Gase.  He has GOT to go.  

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8 minutes ago, section314 said:

Exactly why he'd never consider this place......this job 100x harder.

Maybe, but at least he'd be able to handpick his next QB, with a high pick.  The Saints won't have that luxury.  Their next QB after Brees will either be Jameis Winston, some other middle-tier veteran QB, or a lottery ticket draft pick.  

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

lol

He doesn't want to be part of a rebuild with a new QB in New Orleans. That's why he'd rather play for the Jets, who will probably be rebuilding with a new QB, and generally surrounded by a bunch of players Payton doesn't know, never coached, and probably need to be replaced themselves.

Also the Saints' owner/GM would have to come to the decision that the HC they liked enough to reward with a 5 yr $50MM extension last year has less than that of a late 1st round pick, which ultimately means he has half of the value of Jamal Adams lol.

@Jetsfan80 I may have to change your username to JetsfanIQ80 for this thread, brother. :rl: 

 

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe, but at least he'd be able to handpick his next QB, with a high pick.  The Saints won't have that luxury.  Their next QB after Brees will either be Jameis Winston, some other middle-tier veteran QB, or a lottery ticket draft pick.  

 

Also GFY, lol.

Obviously Payton may have zero interest in being traded here or anywhere.  The point was to see how many JNers would be willing to deal for him in the unlikely event we COULD get him. 

And in any case, a team with the # 1 pick and a ton of cap space isn't exactly the worst place to end up, among the pool of teams that need a coach at the moment.  

Like I said.  It's a long season going nowhere.  Humor me.

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7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

You see this everywhere, so I'm not singling you out, but I can't tell you how much I disagree with this. Teams flip the script very quickly in the NFL.

This team needs a lot of talent, but we have plenty of picks and cap space over the next few years to turn things around quickly, assuming we have a good GM (that's the key). 

For starters, if Lawrence is as good as people say he is, you would immediately notice a difference in the competitiveness of the offense. More big plays, very few dumb interceptions, etc. Then you add another premium draft pick on the OL and another premium draft pick at WR and you are already on to something. Combine this with the a big culture change, and there is no reason this team could not be 7-9/8-8 next year. 

The notion that "team X is years away from being respectable" is usually BS in the NFL, IMO. 

No offense taken.  You can single me out anytime.  I don't mind.

Look, in principle, I agree with you that teams now can turn themselves around quickly.  Guess I'm viewing most of the players we have as not being at true NFL level.  Couple that with our owners and history, and I'm still not confident Lawrence and Payton will pull out a miracle with this team. 

Just my opinion.  But WTF do I know anyway?  

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7 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Don't believe in trading picks for coaches -- ever. It's a terrible waste of resources. There are plenty of good coaches out there for the taking. You just have to do your homework to find them.

Disagree.

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I’d give them Sam Darnold, the Hobbit and the first we got from Seattle 

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31 minutes ago, peebag said:

It's a moot point.  Sean Payton ain't going nowhere.

 

this

---

I'd rather just trade with the cheatriots for bill bellichick

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5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Also GFY, lol.

Obviously Payton may have zero interest in being traded here or anywhere.  The point was to see how many JNers would be willing to deal for him in the unlikely event we COULD get him.

Like I said.  It's a long season going nowhere.  Humor me.

Hahaha.

Except the Saints aren't trading Payton even for our #1 Lawrence pick that we'd never offer. Believe it. 

Brees is locked in for the 2021 season, seeing how he just signed a 2 yr deal earlier this year. They didn't sign all these contracts not knowing what they're going to do with all of them, and anyway flipping their HC doesn't provide any cap relief. 

They already have a 1st, 2nd, and two 3rds (comp pick for Bridgewater) in the first 2 days. They aren't as high as our picks, but they also have fewer holes to close. Adding another late 1st rounder (presumably you're not into offering our top pick) isn't going to make a dent into the problems created by starting a HC search with the team $80MM over the cap limit, with the new hire sure to look like the guy who brought them back to being the 'aints. 

0.0% chance of happening. Might as well suppose what if we made an offer to Kraft for Belichick. 

Fight me.

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36 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Arguably a genius designing offenses.  But WTF is he going to accomplish with the JAG-minuses we have on this team? Nothing.  Even if we draft Lawrence and he pans out, we are YEARS away from competing for the division let alone the conference.

Also, like Belicheat with Brady, how good will he be without a HOFer like Drew Brees?   Plus, acquiring Payton would be another case of the Jets signing a HC whose best days are most likely behind him.  

Years just means more than one.  The jets aren’t close at the moment but Douglas has picked up some pieces to build around. This next draft will determine how much longer we must wait for a solid team.

As for Payton, he’s one of the better coaches out there and would bring any team instant respectability.  I didn’t think little chuckie would be able to come and do so well but he’s doing pretty well.  But maybe Payton would want more power than he currently has.

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Hahaha.

Except the Saints aren't trading Payton even for our #1 Lawrence pick that we'd never offer. Believe it. 

Brees is locked in for the 2021 season, seeing how he just signed a 2 yr deal earlier this year. They didn't sign all these contracts not knowing what they're going to do with all of them, and anyway flipping their HC doesn't provide any cap relief. 

They already have a 1st, 2nd, and two 3rds (comp pick for Bridgewater) in the first 2 days. They aren't as high as our picks, but they also have fewer holes to close. Adding another late 1st rounder (presumably you're not into offering our top pick) isn't going to make a dent into the problems created by starting a HC search with the team $80MM over the cap limit, with the new hire sure to look like the guy who brought them back to being the 'aints. 

0.0% chance of happening. Might as well suppose what if we made an offer to Kraft for Belichick. 

Fight me.

 

As you say, they're going to be $78M over the cap next year.  How are they going to be able to keep Brees around?  And even if they do keep Brees, how are they going to field a team? 

I agree that if Brees is back, Payton will be also.  But if I'm correct and Brees is gone, why wouldn't Payton want to go elsewhere?

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I'd give them the Seattle first. Payton is a top 3 NFL head coach from the Parcells tree. I have full confidence he'd put us back on the right track.

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31 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

The 49ers went from 4-12 in 2018 to 13-3 and a Superbowl in 2019 with Lynch and Shanahan...

Yes but I’ll bet their gm made much better deals and drafted much better players than the jets ones of the past 7 years.  It’s kind of like when parcells took over in 97 but with a better Qb.

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32 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

So, you were against the Jets trading for Parcells? 

How do you think Pats fans feel about all of the resources they lost trading for the right to hire Belichick? 

 

Yeah, I was actually. And despite the love I know many Jets fans have for him, Parcells amounted to a net negative for the Jets. He cost us Belichick and Manning. He made stupid trades. He brought us Al Groh, Terry Bradway, Mike Tannenbaum. When you look at the miserable Jets drafting over the past two decades, the bulk of it was due to his cronies.

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Just now, BroadwayRay said:

Yeah, I was actually. And despite the love I know many Jets fans have for him, Parcells amounted to a net negative for the Jets. He cost us Belichick and Manning. He made stupid trades. He brought us Al Groh, Terry Bradway, Mike Tannenbaum. When you look at the miserable Jets drafting over the past two decades, the bulk of it was due to his cronies.

The only reason Belichick was in line to coach the Jets was because of Parcells. In fact, Belichick was only a HC candidate anywhere because of Parcells. 

"Amounted to a net negative for the Jets" - We can just agree to disagree there. This franchise was in the wilderness before Parcells. 

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Just now, slimjasi said:

The only reason Belichick was in line to coach the Jets was because of Parcells. In fact, Belichick was only a HC candidate anywhere because of Parcells. 

"Amounted to a net negative for the Jets" - We can just agree to disagree there. This franchise was in the wilderness before Parcells. 

That doesn't make what I said untrue. Parcells' bloated ego, and his refusal to step aside like he was supposed to, cost the Jets the greatest head coach in NFL history.

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Just now, BroadwayRay said:

That doesn't make what I said untrue. Parcells' bloated ego, and his refusal to step aside like he was supposed to, cost the Jets the greatest head coach in NFL history.

It's a lot more complicated than that. You obviously have a hard on for Parcells, but the reality is that Belichick wasn't comfortable with Woody Johnson as the new owner and had developed a close relationship with Kraft from his time as the DC (under Parcells) in New England. 

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10 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Yeah, I was actually. And despite the love I know many Jets fans have for him, Parcells amounted to a net negative for the Jets. He cost us Belichick and Manning. He made stupid trades. He brought us Al Groh, Terry Bradway, Mike Tannenbaum. When you look at the miserable Jets drafting over the past two decades, the bulk of it was due to his cronies.

my gawd what an awful take

Parcells pulled the organization out of a death spiral and stabilized it. We were actually a respectable franchise for over a decade thanks to his injecting competency into it. 

You may have noticed we instantaneously went back into a death spiral after the last remnant of the Parcells left town (Tannenbaum)?

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I can never fully a coach whose success came hand in hand with legit all time great QBs.

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