Sean Payton

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I can never fully a coach whose success came hand in hand with legit all time great QBs.

 

59 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Teddy Bridgewater looked fantastic under Sean Payton when Brees was hurt.  As did other QB's under his watch when he was an OC, including Kerry Collings (2000-02 / NYG), and the aging corpses of Vinny T and Drew Blesdoe (2004-05 / DAL).  Even Quincy Carter was serviceable (2003 / DAL).  

Payton has had too much success for too long to question whether he can succeed with a young QB.  He's on the level of Andy Reid.  We can't afford to "get cute" with this next HC hire, and Payton would be a slam dunk if we have a shot at him.

 

[rex-n-effect]

Yeah I look at a team one game behind in their division halfway through the team and think, "this team is heading to the bottom" from my perfect view of the bottom as a fan of a winless team. 

 

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Yeah I look at a team one game behind in their division halfway through the team and think, "this team is heading to the bottom" from my perfect view of the bottom as a fan of a winless team. 

They're not heading to the bottom this year.  But this is certainly the last year in their Super Bowl window for a bit.  Again, they're scheduled to be $78M over the cap next year, before signing back any upcoming FA's (Marcus Williams, Jared Cook, Alex Anzalone, Sheldon Rankins, Trey Hendrickson, etc).  Meanwhile, Drew Brees is 41.  

They're heading into an offseason where they're in the worst cap shape of any team in the league.  The window is closing, at least for a bit.

[peebag]

2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

The 49ers went from 4-12 in 2018 to 13-3 and a Superbowl in 2019 with Lynch and Shanahan...

The 49ers have a history of continued success.  The Jets do not.

So any coach\GM will be fighting history, media/fan/owner perception.  Any hint of adversity to the new coach/gm tandem and the wolves will be howling at the gates.

This franchise is doomed.

[UntouchableCrew]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I'd give up the Seattle pick and then some. 

Proven big time HC, great offenses every year, big personality with experience coaching in New York, and here's the big one - he's only 56 (so he could be here for a decade if things worked out)

Now, here's the one caveat: I imagine Payton would want some control over personnel - So I sort of doubt Douglas would bring in a guy like that. Payton would be a Johnson & Johnson move and that would be iffy with Douglas here. 

This. I'd give up the Seattle pick and then another 3rd/4th.

Great coach, knows offense, knows the league, knows the NYC market. I'd be all in.

[peekskill68]

25 minutes ago, peebag said:

The 49ers have a history of continued success.  The Jets do not.

So any coach\GM will be fighting history, media/fan/owner perception.  Any hint of adversity to the new coach/gm tandem and the wolves will be howling at the gates.

This franchise is doomed.

I'm here for you bro.  Sing the Lou Holtz fight song with me (to "The Caissons Go Rolling Along")

 

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I can never fully a coach whose success came hand in hand with legit all time great QBs.

Brian Billick or Doug Peterson, then.

[UntouchableCrew]

2 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

I can never fully a coach whose success came hand in hand with legit all time great QBs.

Drew Brees wasn't an all time great QB before Payton.

He was as guy the Chargers moved on from, a guy the Dolphins picked Daunte Culpepper over.

He didn't become great until he went to NOLA.

[peebag]

6 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

I'm here for you bro.  Sing the Lou Holtz fight song with me (to "The Caissons Go Rolling Along")

 

F*ck Lou Holtz, right in his p*ssy

[Sperm Edwards]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

As you say, they're going to be $78M over the cap next year.  How are they going to be able to keep Brees around?  And even if they do keep Brees, how are they going to field a team? 

I agree that if Brees is back, Payton will be also.  But if I'm correct and Brees is gone, why wouldn't Payton want to go elsewhere?

Whatever their plans, they saw it coming and must have had something in mind. This didn't suddenly happen. But again regardless, trading Payton for a draft pick doesn't help that situation for the 2021 season since they won't know who'll be available in their draft slot(s) until >1 mo after free agency starts. 

It looks like they just decided to go all-in on the 2020 season because there's so much that they're not just over by, but really even with these high numbers that's with backloading early hits with high signing bonuses. The really crazy one is Taysom Hill who's got a $16MM cap figure next year. 

Hey, if they win a SB this year then it'll all be worth it. But just looking for 5 min I don't immediately see how they get around this. Obviously they will, but I'm not seeing how they clear $80MM in cap room without cutting almost everyone since they'd need to cut over $100MM and find that $80MM in relief while also absorbing a huge amount in accelerated SB that'd be unusable as "dead cap" in 2021. Only real way around it is to set up this same problem again by offering more players y1 signing bonuses instead of straight salary. 

Or maybe they're just planning on having a one-year housecleaning: rip the band-aid off all at once, and get a high 2022 draft pick for their troubles. Whether Payton wants that or not, he's locked in to coach the Saints or no one. He can't choose another team (and isn't going to give up that kind of scratch - all of it guaranteed, unless he quits - anyway). 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Drew Brees wasn't an all time great QB before Payton.

He was as guy the Chargers moved on from, a guy the Dolphins picked Daunte Culpepper over.

He didn't become great until he went to NOLA.

He wasn't an all-time great, but he was pretty ******* good.  He had already made a pro bowl and had a season at 65% with 27TDs and 7INT.  He was a monster waiting to happen.  Rivers went 4th overall and had like 10 attempts combined his first two seasons.  Rivers wasn't even a rookie when they franchised Brees.  Brees hurt his shoulder or he might still be in SD or LA or wherever the **** they are now.  Even after the shoulder injury, they offered him 5/$50M.  That's despite paying Rivers all that money.  Remember Rivers came out before the rookie salary slotting started.  

The two takeaways are that the Dolphins are idiots and that you should try to trade up into the first from the top of the second for your QB so that you have the extra year of control.  Think of how much different our world would be if we had gone after Brees instead of trading for Patrick Ramsey.  I was here.  It was discussed.  As was trading for and going after Michael Turner before he left Tomlinson's shadow.  

[Adoni Beast]

3 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

That doesn't make what I said untrue. Parcells' bloated ego, and his refusal to step aside like he was supposed to, cost the Jets the greatest head coach in NFL history.

- Parcells stepped down before 2000, so Belichick COULD take over. He only was staying on as GM for his final contractual year.

- Belichick wouldn’t have even had the opportunity or career if it wasn’t for Parcells.

- “Greatest coach of all time” looks pretty sh*tty career wise pre & post the best QB ever. Yes Belichick is a good coach, but he’s actually probably a better gm. He has an uncanny ability to find players that fit a system and create a culture for sure.

But...Honestly, look how quickly the Pats suck as soon as Brady goes. Give BB geno smith, kellen clemens, mark sanchez, christian hackenberg, bryce petty and see what how good he looks then.

Parcells went to 3 and (almost 4)Super Bowls with non Hall of Fame QBs, same with Joe Gibbs. Those 2 coaches impress me more than Belichick to be honest.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Maybe, but at least he'd be able to handpick his next QB, with a high pick.  The Saints won't have that luxury.  Their next QB after Brees will either be Jameis Winston, some other middle-tier veteran QB, or a lottery ticket draft pick.  

He’ll have Darnold to work with. He’s not going anywhere. 

[southparkcpa]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Also GFY, lol.

Obviously Payton may have zero interest in being traded here or anywhere.  The point was to see how many JNers would be willing to deal for him in the unlikely event we COULD get him. 

And in any case, a team with the # 1 pick and a ton of cap space isn't exactly the worst place to end up, among the pool of teams that need a coach at the moment.  

Like I said.  It's a long season going nowhere.  Humor me.

Unless it’s the Jets. ?

[New York Mick]

None unless he has a time machine and can bring a young Drew Brees with him. 

[bla bla bla]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It seems pretty clear to me that the end of the 2020 season will be a very good time for Sean Payton and the Saints to part ways.  Drew Brees is basically toast, or close to it.  The team's star WR is causing problems.  And most importantly, the team is projected to be $78M over the cap next year.  A complete tear down is coming for that franchise.  Payton may opt to retire, but at 56, it's probably a safer bet that he'll look to make a fresh start elsewhere.

The problem is, his contract runs thru 2023.  Meaning we're talking about a trade being necessary to acquire him.  In that light, what would be the maximum trade compensation you'd give up to acquire Payton as the next HC in 2021?

I'd trade them a 1st and Sam Darnold, gives them a cheap QB for at least a year before they decide long term. If we can get Michael Thomas in a deal I'd be willing to give up more as well. Sean Payton is a top 5 coach in this league, I'd move mountains to get him.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

He’ll have Darnold to work with. He’s not going anywhere. 

So the Jets are passing on a QB to stick with Darnold in your scenario?  Nope.

[Wonderboy]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It seems pretty clear to me that the end of the 2020 season will be a very good time for Sean Payton and the Saints to part ways.  Drew Brees is basically toast, or close to it.  The team's star WR is causing problems.  And most importantly, the team is projected to be $78M over the cap next year.  A complete tear down is coming for that franchise.  Payton may opt to retire, but at 56, it's probably a safer bet that he'll look to make a fresh start elsewhere.

The problem is, his contract runs thru 2023.  Meaning we're talking about a trade being necessary to acquire him.  In that light, what would be the maximum trade compensation you'd give up to acquire Payton as the next HC in 2021?

Jerry Jones will offer his first born next year to get Sean Payton so fugetaboutit.

[funaz]

Peyton is great no doubt. He already won a super bowl so you definitely don't want him anywhere near the jets.

If you want to be ok yeah sure..if you.want.to.win a an no tha ks

 
Teddy Bridgewater looked fantastic under Sean Payton when Brees was hurt.  As did other QB's under his watch when he was an OC, including Kerry Collings (2000-02 / NYG), and the aging corpses of Vinny T and Drew Blesdoe (2004-05 / DAL).  Even Quincy Carter was serviceable (2003 / DAL).  
Payton has had too much success for too long to question whether he can succeed with a young QB.  He's on the level of Andy Reid.  We can't afford to "get cute" with this next HC hire, and Payton would be a slam dunk if we have a shot at him.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Philc1]

Trade draft picks for a head coach?

F that

[Philc1]

11 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Drew Brees wasn't an all time great QB before Payton.

He was as guy the Chargers moved on from, a guy the Dolphins picked Daunte Culpepper over.

He didn't become great until he went to NOLA.

Brees had a very good season in San Diego in 2004.  Only reason we beat him in that playoff game was because their kicker choked

 

that was before Sean Payton

[UntouchableCrew]

16 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

He wasn't an all-time great, but he was pretty ******* good.  He had already made a pro bowl and had a season at 65% with 27TDs and 7INT.  He was a monster waiting to happen.  Rivers went 4th overall and had like 10 attempts combined his first two seasons.  Rivers wasn't even a rookie when they franchised Brees.  Brees hurt his shoulder or he might still be in SD or LA or wherever the **** they are now.  Even after the shoulder injury, they offered him 5/$50M.  That's despite paying Rivers all that money.  Remember Rivers came out before the rookie salary slotting started.  

The two takeaways are that the Dolphins are idiots and that you should try to trade up into the first from the top of the second for your QB so that you have the extra year of control.  Think of how much different our world would be if we had gone after Brees instead of trading for Patrick Ramsey.  I was here.  It was discussed.  As was trading for and going after Michael Turner before he left Tomlinson's shadow.  

He was a quality player -- but he didn't turn into a Hall of Famer until he partnered with Payton. I was responding to someone who essentially implied Payton has been carried by a HOF QB, which is a preposterous notion considering he didn't become that guy until they got together.

Brees has always had elite skills but he has obvious flaws too and Payton built a great offense to cover for his inefficiencies. Brees never becomes the player he is or has the career he had without Payton, IMO.

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He was a quality player -- but he didn't turn into a Hall of Famer until he partnered with Payton. I was responding to someone who essentially implied Payton has been carried by a HOF QB, which is a preposterous notion considering he didn't become that guy until they got together.

Brees has always had elite skills but he has obvious flaws too and Payton built a great offense to cover for his inefficiencies. Brees never becomes the player he is or has the career he had without Payton, IMO.

You mean Brees didn’t play in a dome until Sean Payton.  He has always been way better in a dome 

[#27TheDominator]

21 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

He was a quality player -- but he didn't turn into a Hall of Famer until he partnered with Payton. I was responding to someone who essentially implied Payton has been carried by a HOF QB, which is a preposterous notion considering he didn't become that guy until they got together.

Brees has always had elite skills but he has obvious flaws too and Payton built a great offense to cover for his inefficiencies. Brees never becomes the player he is or has the career he had without Payton, IMO.

Why is that so preposterous?  People say that about Belichick and he drafted that hair plugged sh*thead in 6th round.  Brees was playing for Schottenheimer in San Diego.  That was never going to be a wide open offense.

[UntouchableCrew]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

  People say that about Belichick and he drafted that hair plugged sh*thead in 6th round.  

Well, people who say that about Belichick are stupid.

[Fantasy Island]

23 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

Don't believe in trading picks for coaches -- ever. It's a terrible waste of resources. There are plenty of good coaches out there for the taking. You just have to do your homework to find them.

Not when you are Woody or Chrissy.

[#27TheDominator]

24 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Well, people who say that about Belichick are stupid.

Yeah.  I was going to say that I don't think you are necessarily so wrong, but I also would not discount how good Brees is just because he played for Payton.