Great insight on Eric Bieniemy

[jgb]

He might be a great HC. But he's working under one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, doesn't call plays, and has the best talent in the league. You can already feel the league is pushing for Bieniemy to get his shot -- feeding media lines about how "calling plays doesn't matter much, it's about strategizing and designing plays" which plays directly into Woody's M.O.

I'd prefer someone who has overachieved with the talent he has to work with and calls the plays.

[Francis Sawyer 37]

20 hours ago, shuler82 said:

Do not want.  
 

He’s been passed over time and time again- why is that? This is Reid’s offense lead by a generational talent at QB.  Even Gase looked pretty good as an assistant in a similar circumstance.

 

Nagy looked great too and now the Bears offense is a train wreck.

The big issue with a successful Coordinator moving up to Head Coach is that some struggle to manage the whole program. The NFL is littered with guys who were the hot Coordinators on each side of the line of scrimmage only to crash and burn as a HC.

[Francis Sawyer 37]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

He might be a great HC. But he's working under one of the best offensive minds in the NFL, doesn't call plays, and has the best talent in the league. You can already feel the league is pushing for Bieniemy to get his shot -- feeding media lines about how "calling plays doesn't matter much, it's about strategizing and designing plays" which plays directly into Woody's M.O.

I'd prefer someone who has overachieved with the talent he has to work with and calls the plays.

Jim Harbaugh would be tops on my list.

Why? Previous success running his own NFL program and a Super Bowl appearance. Give me someone whose been there vs an unknown.

[Philc1]

20 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

Question for the board:

What makes Bieniemy less qualified then Nagy or Pedersen when they were hired to be HCs? 

Nothing

[jgb]

17 hours ago, carlito1171 said:

Question for the board:

What makes Bieniemy less qualified then Nagy or Pedersen when they were hired to be HCs? 

Nothing. But same answer for Gase, Bowles, and dozens of other failed coordinators as first time HCs.

[68JET11]

1 hour ago, Francis Sawyer 37 said:

Nagy looked great too and now the Bears offense is a train wreck.

The big issue with a successful Coordinator moving up to Head Coach is that some struggle to manage the whole program. The NFL is littered with guys who were the hot Coordinators on each side of the line of scrimmage only to crash and burn as a HC.

Perfectly said... I agree which is why I wanted Rhule so bad instead of Gase. I want someone that can be the HC of this team who has done it successfully already. I would trust that guy to hire his vision of OC and DC, which we never afforded Rhule. So if that is the requirement, then I'm onboard with Matt Campbell, and let him pick his OC and DC. 

[GreenFish]

52 minutes ago, jgb said:

Nothing. But same answer for Gase, Bowles, and dozens of other failed coordinators as first time HCs.

This applies to all first time HCs. Unless we hire a former HC, there’s going to be some level of uncertainty. The only way around it is to hire a current college coach. Which I don’t mind. Matt Campbell would be a great hire.

With Bieniemy though, the signs are there that he can be a good HC (leadership, communication etc). Just have to listen to his interviews with KC and before, and listen to the players talk about him. Some times the obvious choice is the right choice. 

If we want an offensive guru in the mold of a McVay, then look at someone else since there’s no way a guy can prove to be that working under Reid. For me, I want a HC. We can hire coordinators to do the coordinating.

[jgb]

15 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

This applies to all first time HCs. Unless we hire a former HC, there’s going to be some level of uncertainty. The only way around it is to hire a current college coach. Which I don’t mind. Matt Campbell would be a great hire.

With Bieniemy though, the signs are there that he can be a good HC (leadership, communication etc). Just have to listen to his interviews with KC and before, and listen to the players talk about him. Some times the obvious choice is the right choice. 

If we want an offensive guru in the mold of a McVay, then look at someone else since there’s no way a guy can prove to be that working under Reid. For me, I want a HC. We can hire coordinators to do the coordinating.

Exactly my point. It’s not a valuable comparison for precisely this reason.

[Untouchable]

No

Just no.

If Chris and Woody can spend tens of millions of dollars on overpriced FA’s like Trumaine Johnson, C.J. Mosley, Le’Veon Bell, etc and get absolute dick out of them on the field, then they can sure as sh*t open up their collective purses and give a guy like Jim Harbaugh $10-12 million a year.

[Ghost]

Daboll for me. 

[maury77]

I want someone with prior HC experience that will bring credibility (Matt Campbell, Lincoln Riley, Harbaugh, Meyer, Pederson, Garrett)

[Jethead]

Many retreads fail. Many coordinators fail. Exceptions abound in both categories.

I like Daboll a lot.

[Jet Nut]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:14 AM, shuler82 said:

Do not want.  
 

He’s been passed over time and time again- why is that? This is Reid’s offense lead by a generational talent at QB.  Even Gase looked pretty good as an assistant in a similar circumstance.

 

How many coordinators that are the hot HC candidates come from bad HCs and unsuccessful teams? 

This would be a concern with any coordinator who hasn't been hired yet.

[Greenbloodblitz]

Here's my non humble opinion. I think people are confused with what a head coaches job actually entails. Being a former player or a former offensive or defensive coordinator really doesn't matter at all.

You can throw out names like Bienemy and Greg Roman, but their past success as coordinators does not mean they will be good head coaches.

Just like you can pass school and get degrees to be a doctor or a teacher but that doesn't mean you will be a good doctor or teacher. You have to have the personality, leadership, and organizational skills.

Now obviously experience helps, and there are many different kinds of head coaches.But if I may ask you to think back to high school, there were a few teachers that were cool that you respected right? They had same degree as the other teachers to get that job but why were they cool?

What made you listen to them since school sucked and we all hated being there? Unless you were a dork and liked being in school..lol!

My point is if you take Bill Parcells, Bill Cowher, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichick. What makes them good coaches? Why are they so successful and why do the players respond?

I will say once again that no one in football has ever called Adam gase an offensive Guru, or a quarterback Whisperer. A few guys did say that he has a brilliant mind for football.

Just because somebody can draw up a successful offense does not mean they will be a good head coach.

 

 

 

[TNJet]

On 10/30/2020 at 9:14 AM, shuler82 said:

Do not want.  
 

He’s been passed over time and time again- why is that? This is Reid’s offense lead by a generational talent at QB.  Even Gase looked pretty good as an assistant in a similar circumstance.

 

Agreed. No thanks to the second coming of Todd Bowles.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Here's my non humble opinion. I think people are confused with what a head coaches job actually entails. Being a former player or a former offensive or defensive coordinator really doesn't matter at all.

You can throw out names like Bienemy and Greg Roman, but their past success as coordinators does not mean they will be good head coaches.

Just like you can pass school and get degrees to be a doctor or a teacher but that doesn't mean you will be a good doctor or teacher. You have to have the personality, leadership, and organizational skills.

Now obviously experience helps, and there are many different kinds of head coaches.But if I may ask you to think back to high school, there were a few teachers that were cool that you respected right? They had same degree as the other teachers to get that job but why were they cool?

What made you listen to them since school sucked and we all hated being there? Unless you were a dork and liked being in school..lol!

My point is if you take Bill Parcells, Bill Cowher, Pete Carroll, and Bill Belichick. What makes them good coaches? Why are they so successful and why do the players respond?

I will say once again that no one in football has ever called Adam gase an offensive Guru, or a quarterback Whisperer. A few guys did say that he has a brilliant mind for football.

Just because somebody can draw up a successful offense does not mean they will be a good head coach.

 

 

 

True in all areas of life... you get promoted based on performance at a job (usually as a specialist) that has little to do with the responsibilities of the next job (as a people manager). Yet... what’s the alternative? Promote the crappy specialists?

[addage]

With the Jets many cultural problems, Jets need a coach with pro experience.  Vastly prefer that over a college HC.

[pdxgreen]

We wants somebody who's a slam dunk.  But we're probably the last spot on the way to career hell.  Let's hope the Chargers job doesn't open up. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 hours ago, Francis Sawyer 37 said:

Nagy looked great too and now the Bears offense is a train wreck.

The big issue with a successful Coordinator moving up to Head Coach is that some struggle to manage the whole program. The NFL is littered with guys who were the hot Coordinators on each side of the line of scrimmage only to crash and burn as a HC.

Which is why Reid has focused on grooming him to be a HC, not just a playcaller.

If playcalling was all that mattered, no one under Reid would have success as a HC.  Reid is the master at offensive playcalling. 

To those making that argument:  John Harbaugh, Ron Rivera, Sean McDermott and Pederson all say hello.  

[Marshmello]

Good Read.

How Andy Reid grew the NFL's most prolific coaching tree

https://www.espn.com/blog/kansas-city-chiefs/post/_/id/26030/how-andy-reid-grew-the-nfls-most-prolific-coaching-tree

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- When Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid sensed two years ago that he would soon need a new offensive coordinator, he called Eric Bieniemy in for a chat.

Bieniemy, at the time a veteran running backs coach already on the Chiefs' staff, was well-versed in the ground game but needed more exposure to the passing part of things. Reid told him he would need to expand this part of his coaching game if Bieniemy wanted to eventually become a coordinator and put his career on a track to someday become a head coach."The one thing on working with Coach Reid is you have to learn to be flexible," Bieniemy said. "He's very innovative, and he'll expand your mind. He'll push it to certain limits and then you think you're at a point and he'll push it to more."

Bieniemy took Reid's advice, and it paid off. The Chiefs promoted Bieniemy to offensive coordinator last year when former offensive coordinator Matt Nagy left to become head coach of the Chicago Bears. And this season the Chiefs led the NFL in scoring, won the AFC West title, earned their first home playoff win in 25 years and will host the New England Patriots in Sunday's AFC Championship Game at Arrowhead Stadium.

It has raised the profile of Bieniemy, who interviewed for head-coaching openings during the Chiefs' bye week. He appears destined to be the next branch of Reid's coaching tree, which is one of the most productive in football.

 

Before Matt Nagy took over in Chicago, he learned under Andy Reid in Kansas City. Robin Alam/Icon Sportswire

Reid's former assistants have combined for a regular-season record winning percentage of .512, which is better than that of other 2018 coaches who have had at least four former assistants move on to become head coaches. That list includes Jon Gruden, Marvin Lewis, John Harbaugh and the man he'll be standing across the field from on Sunday, Bill Belichick.

Of Belichick's many disciples, only Bill O'Brien (Texans) and Matt Patricia (Lions) were NFL head coaches this season, and only O'Brien coached a team into the playoffs -- though Nick Saban made yet another appearance in the college football national title game at Alabama.

Reid had seven former assistants working as head coaches this season: Nagy, Doug Pederson (Eagles), John Harbaugh (Ravens), Sean McDermott (Bills), Pat Shurmur (Giants), Ron Rivera (Panthers) and Todd Bowles (Jets). Harbaugh and Pederson have won Super Bowls as head coaches. Nagy, Pederson and Harbaugh coached playoff teams this season.

To Bieniemy and others, this isn't coincidence.

"One of the most important things in any profession ... is where you start," said Harbaugh, an assistant coach for Reid for nine seasons with the Philadelphia Eagles before he joined the Ravens in 2008. "Who you start with really makes a big difference. If you start with people that do it the right way -- good people, teach you the right things -- it just gives you a chance, gives you a leg up. And Andy, for me, was a big part of that in every way. I learned a great many things from him, and watching his tape now, I still learn a great many things from him.

"You get a chance to learn so much from watching him work and being around him every day. He's got a unique style. He doesn't try to be anything or do anything that's not perfectly tuned to who he is and what he believes and that kind of thing. ... You learn good things from him, [and] he's not afraid to share them with you, why he does things or how he does things and what his thinking is."

Joe Banner, the Eagles' president who hired Reid as head coach in 1999, said the most impressive thing about Reid in the interview process, and one of reasons he got the job, was the meticulous list of prospective assistant coaches he wanted to hire for Eagles staff.

"He had a list of all of these coaches he had met and notes about them and even ordered them, like it was a draft board," Banner said. "That tells you how much he appreciates surrounding himself with good people. He was looking for the best people as opposed to some coaches out there who are conscious of hiring people who aren't threats.

"Andy realizes he can't be successful unless he's surrounded by people that actually make you better. He also realizes the better he makes those people, the better he is. Investing in the time it took to properly evaluate coaches and in trying to develop them were something he prioritized. When you do that and teach as well as he does, you're going to have a lot of good coaches working for you."

 

"He's very innovative, and he'll expand your mind. He'll push it to certain limits and then you think you're at a point and he'll push it to more."Eric Bieniemy

Brad Childress coached for Reid with the Eagles for seven seasons before becoming head coach of the Minnesota Vikings in 2006. He went 39-35 and took the Vikings to the NFC Championship Game in January 2010; they lost in overtime to the New Orleans Saints.

He later rejoined Reid as an assistant coach with the Chiefs before leaving at the end of last season. Childress recalled many nights as Reid's assistant sleeping in the office after hours of preparing game plans and talking football.

"But I can tell you that most of the time when I was driving in in the morning, his car was already there and a lot of times when I was leaving, his car was still there," Childress said.

"He instills that work ethic in you, and there aren't many situations you're in that he hasn't covered with you. That helps in becoming a head coach and being successful when you get the job."

To Reid, there's nothing magical about this.

"You just let them do their jobs," he said. "In a leadership position, you try to set up a format of things you want done within that but don't take away the ability of someone to let their personality show. Let them be who you've hired and have their input."

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His coaches evidently like working for him. The stability of Reid's staff in six seasons with the Chiefs is remarkable.

All but six of the main coaches from Reid's original staff remain with the Chiefs. Of the six, three (including Pederson and Nagy) left for promotions with other teams and two retired from coaching.

"He's going to hold you accountable, but he's going to let you coach," defensive coordinator Bob Sutton said. "We have certain parameters and all of that stuff, but in the end you're in charge of your area and your position. You feel like he trusts you, he wants you to be good at it. Then you have to produce that for him."

Reid was once an assistant coach himself, for 10 years in college and then seven years in the NFL. Mike Holmgren gave Reid his first NFL job in 1992 with the Green Bay Packers. The two had worked together as assistants at BYU in 1982, and, though that time together was brief, Holmgren said it made an impression on him.

"I was really observant when we first started working together of how smart he was, how he related to players, how he approached work and of his personality as a teacher," Holmgren said. "I kind of filed it away that if I ever had a chance to be a head coach, Andy would be someone I reached out to.

"When I got the job with the Packers, he was the first guy I phoned. As an assistant coach for me, he was all the things I thought he was going to be."

Reid started coaching the offensive line and tight ends with the Packers. Holmgren later made what seemed to be a radical move, moving Reid to coach the quarterbacks, including eventual Hall of Famer Brett Favre.

"He did things as an assistant the way I did them with coach [Bill] Walsh," Holmgren said. "If nothing else, I was a good student. I wrote everything down. I made lists. I made lists of things I really liked. That helps in creating your own philosophy. Andy did the same thing with me. He wrote down stuff and liked some of it and then he sprinkled in his own stuff.

"That's the way his assistants are with him, too. The guys that are coming from his staff and are head coaches on their own, you can see they were good students of Andy Reid and how he does things. It's the formula. They're bright people. They're hard-working guys. They listened to their mentor. They're implementing some of the stuff they learned from him."

[carlito1171]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Which is why Reid has focused on grooming him to be a HC, not just a playcaller.

If playcalling was all that mattered, no one under Reid would have success as a HC.  Reid is the master at offensive playcalling. 

To those making that argument:  John Harbaugh, Ron Rivera, Sean McDermott and Pederson all say hello.  

Exactly. Spot on.

Which is why I posed that question that seemingly no one who’s so vehemently against Bieniemy wanted to answer(or pretend they didn’t see it) 

I’m not sure where he ranks for me on my list but I would be happy with a Bieniemy hire. His turn is coming soon, and people are acting as if Andy Reid’s coaching tree is like Belicheck’s. The hope is that he can hire the right staff around him and he damn sure knows what it looks like to bring a young QB along...Who cares if he calls minimal plays( if you actually looked into the mans background you would see that he calls plays at times). It didn’t seem to matter for Nagy or Pedersen, who I’ve seen posters here rave about before, so why should it matter for Bieniemy? ?

People would rather pick a known turd like Garrett over Bieniemy who could be great(or not we won’t find out till he gets a spot). It’s comical TBH...

[BornJetsFan1983]

12 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Exactly. Spot on.

Which is why I posed that question that seemingly no one who’s so vehemently against Bieniemy wanted to answer(or pretend they didn’t see it) 

I’m not sure where he ranks for me on my list but I would be happy with a Bieniemy hire. His turn is coming soon, and people are acting as if Andy Reid’s coaching tree is like Belicheck’s. The hope is that he can hire the right staff around him and he damn sure knows what it looks like to bring a young QB along...Who cares if he calls minimal plays( if you actually looked into the mans background you would see that he calls plays at times). It didn’t seem to matter for Nagy or Pedersen, who I’ve seen posters here rave about before, so why should it matter for Bieniemy? ?

People would rather pick a known turd like Garrett over Bieniemy who could be great(or not we won’t find out till he gets a spot). It’s comical TBH...

Pretty sure his plays would be alot better than bowls and def gase

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, carlito1171 said:

Exactly. Spot on.

Which is why I posed that question that seemingly no one who’s so vehemently against Bieniemy wanted to answer(or pretend they didn’t see it) 

I’m not sure where he ranks for me on my list but I would be happy with a Bieniemy hire. His turn is coming soon, and people are acting as if Andy Reid’s coaching tree is like Belicheck’s. The hope is that he can hire the right staff around him and he damn sure knows what it looks like to bring a young QB along...Who cares if he calls minimal plays( if you actually looked into the mans background you would see that he calls plays at times). It didn’t seem to matter for Nagy or Pedersen, who I’ve seen posters here rave about before, so why should it matter for Bieniemy? ?

People would rather pick a known turd like Garrett over Bieniemy who could be great(or not we won’t find out till he gets a spot). It’s comical TBH...

You make a lot of good points. Just not sure how much Bieniemy has to do with the Chiefs' success. That's my concern.

2 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Pretty sure his plays would be alot better than bowls and def gase

That's a low bar, my friend.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

You make a lot of good points. Just not sure how much Bieniemy has to do with the Chiefs' success. That's my concern.

How big a part of Reid's success was due to John Harbaugh, Ron Rivera, Sean McDermott and Doug Pederson?

[jgb]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How big a part of Reid's success was due to John Harbaugh, Ron Rivera, Sean McDermott and Doug Pederson?

It's not easy to tell, I admit. Still prefer a guy who has made lemonade from lemons rather than one who  had caviar and made caviar.

[HawkeyeJet]

I watch a lot of Bears games.  Whenever I see talk about Bienemy, my 1st question(and the 1st question I think any GM should ask themselves about him) is what makes him a better candidate than Matt Nagy, who has been meh at best in Chicago, pretty disappointing at worst.

Nagy was under Reid for nearly a decade.  Ge coached QBs.  He checked all the same boxes Bienemy does. 

[56mehl56]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:47 PM, addage said:

With the Jets many cultural problems, Jets need a coach with pro experience.  Vastly prefer that over a college HC.

Yeah but ask yourself the question, why would a good HC with NFL experience be available. They are available for a reason , so unless you want to part with draft picks to "steal" a HC from a current team your getting someone with question marks just like with a college coach or first time coordinator guy.