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DK Metcalf, Justin Herbert, the certainty of athleticism and #commonsense


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9 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

Standing at 6'6", he was an athletic specimen at LSU.  His measurables were 'off the charts' crazy. The finest of athletic specimens. That man? Jamarcus Russell. Highly touted at LSU in 2007, Russell was a big physical specimen with a cannon of an arm who was highly productive. 

Obviously, he's going into the hall of fame. 

Pro Tip: If you think you discovered some secret to picking players who will be superstars in the NFL...take a deep breath, whisper T0mShane into the mirror 3 times, take a dump and then realize you didn't.

It's never that simple...and certainly not 'undefeated' 

 

But that's what i'm saying...there is no secret. It's simple, the better athletes are more likely to be successful in the NFL.

It's not always the case, but this approach has a better track record than others. We're underrating athleticism in favor of other wishy-washy criteria. 

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8 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

But that's what i'm saying...there is no secret. It's simple, the better athletes are more likely to be successful in the NFL.

It's not always the case, but this approach has a better track record than others. We're underrating athleticism in favor of other wishy-washy criteria. 

Athleticism is one part. The other parts are having the ability to make quick decisions and then a single mindedness of purpose.  Lots of excellent athletes would put themselves in a position to get beat up every Sunday.  There’s a serious mental aspect to it.

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Plenty of all world athletes fail in the NFL.  And every year we see guys climb because of their athletic profile.  Happens every year at like a super duper alarming rate ignoring the importance of, can he play Football?  

The Seahawks themselves passed on Metcalf, twice!   for L.J. Collier at 29 overall and Marquis Blair at 47.   Who is L.J. Collier and Marquis Blair, you ask?  Exactly.  And Justin Herbert went #7 overall, 5 teams passed on him and 2 of those 5 took QB's.  How did the scouting community miss there?

Pretty sure athleticism is very important when considering prospects for the NFL. Kind of silly to suggest otherwise, they literally have a combine that purposefully measure athleticism.  lol  You need to be able to play, bottom line.

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3 minutes ago, JiF said:

Plenty of all world athletes fail in the NFL.  And every year we see guys climb because of their athletic profile.  Happens every year at like a super duper alarming rate ignoring the importance of, can he play Football?  

The Seahawks themselves passed on Metcalf, twice!   for L.J. Collier at 29 overall and Marquis Blair at 47.   Who is L.J. Collier and Marquis Blair, you ask?  Exactly.  And Justin Herbert went #7 overall, 5 teams passed on him and 2 of those 5 took QB's.  How did the scouting community miss there?

Pretty sure athleticism is very important when considering prospects for the NFL. Kind of silly to suggest otherwise, they literally have a combine that purposefully measure athleticism.  lol  You need to be able to play, bottom line.

The NFL media community likes to make jokes about people passing on Metcalf because of the three cone, but the Big Red Flag on Metcalf was that he had no production in college. The scouting community, especially the online fake scouts, sucks, but Metcalf isn’t really the guy either set—the media know-it-alls nor the Matt Millers of the world—can really kill the other for. 

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4 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The NFL media community likes to make jokes about people passing on Metcalf because of the three cone, but the Big Red Flag on Metcalf was that he had no production in college. The scouting community, especially the online fake scouts, sucks, but Metcalf isn’t really the guy either set—the media know-it-alls nor the Matt Millers of the world—can really kill the other for. 

DK fell because of his injury history and because a lot of the scouting community felt he was juicing leading into the pre-draft process.  

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4 minutes ago, JiF said:

Plenty of all world athletes fail in the NFL.  And every year we see guys climb because of their athletic profile.  Happens every year at like a super duper alarming rate ignoring the importance of, can he play Football?  

The Seahawks themselves passed on Metcalf, twice!   for L.J. Collier at 29 overall and Marquis Blair at 47.   Who is L.J. Collier and Marquis Blair, you ask?  Exactly.  And Justin Herbert went #7 overall, 5 teams passed on him and 2 of those 5 took QB's.  How did the scouting community miss there?

Pretty sure athleticism is very important when considering prospects for the NFL. Kind of silly to suggest otherwise, they literally have a combine that purposefully measure athleticism.  lol  You need to be able to play, bottom line.

 

Don't you think athleticism is a big factor in how well they're able to play? There's no matching bigger, stronger, faster...and they can LEARN how to play, all these guys are on a learning curve, they're not gonna play like seasoned vets from day 1...that's what many people seem to forget.

 

DK Metcalf was passed on because he apparently 'couldn't run routes'. This is the kind of absurd thinking that seems to prevail across the NFL nowadays. JJ Arcega whiteside knew how to 'play', and was drafted ahead of him for this very reason.

It's an abandonment of #commonsense. That's why these guys fall in the draft. 

 

9 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Pat Mahomes and Tom Brady are substandard athletes. Derrick Henry ran a 4.54 with poor agility numbers. The two best receivers in football are DeAndre Hopkins and Michael Thomas, and they’re both 4.6 guys. Kittle is the best TE, but Evan Engram sucks and he’s ten times the athlete Kittle is. 

 

Mahomes is not a substandard athlete, not even close. Cannon for an arm. Derrick Henry is basically a linebacker playing RB, he's the RB version of Metcalf, extremely unique and impossible to bring down at the second level. Thomas didn't blow up the combine, but his lateral agility and short-range burst should have been impossible to ignore, he could create separation with ease. 

 

Scouts are missing the most obvious things, and i don't know why. Is it really that hard?

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1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

As the football world juggles a million different fads to accurately identify NFL prospects, many have either ignored, or forgotten, the most obvious, tried-and-tested indicator of success at the professional level: natural athleticism. 

It's not difficult. The guys that are bigger, stronger and faster will probably...be good at football. At any position. Under most circumstances. 

The unheralded success of DK Metcalf and Justin Herbert might well inspire a return to #commonsense, and a scaling back of pointless and mostly extraneous data in modern day scouting. 

These were two highly criticized, unfairly underrated prospects, knocked down for everything other than their athletic prowess. It's almost as if the 'big NFL' tried to outsmart themselves into thinking that exceptional athleticism doesn't matter that much

Both of these prospects were prototypical athletes for their position; so much so...you'd think they'd been built in a lab. Yet, somehow...this simple fact eluded the entire NFL community. A calvin johnson-like wide receiver was the 9th WR drafted in his class. A skillful QB with an exceptional athletic profile was never close to being a consensus number 1 pick, and widely rumored to be a bust. Why? 

How did we even get here? By making athleticism just one of a thousand different 'boxes' on a scout's checklist. 

Somewhere along the line, the football elites, along with us fans, have forgotten that the game doesn't have to be complex. It's a pretty simple game, played by imperfect human beings. Many of whom are on a learning curve from day 1, largely reliant on circumstances beyond their control. 

A simple game necessitates clarity of thought, more than anything else. And there's nothing clearer to the eye than raw, natural, god-given athleticism. You can't teach it. Athleticism, allied with good #commonsense coaching, is often a guaranteed winner.

#intangibles and data have their place, but the predictive value of athleticism in a contact sport, is undefeated. If only more teams, especially the Jets, could realize this...and revert to #commonsense thinking. 

Peyton Manning, the most athletic man in the world. Drink responsibly.

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5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

DK fell because of his injury history and because a lot of the scouting community felt he was juicing leading into the pre-draft process.  

Also many felt he couldn't run any route but a go-route. I remember early footage of him filmed by a beat writer during his rookie mini camp had social media laughing--it was Metcalf running in/out patterns and he looked bad. 

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13 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

The NFL media community likes to make jokes about people passing on Metcalf because of the three cone, but the Big Red Flag on Metcalf was that he had no production in college. The scouting community, especially the online fake scouts, sucks, but Metcalf isn’t really the guy either set—the media know-it-alls nor the Matt Millers of the world—can really kill the other for. 

The bod was also a bit too Schwartzenegger, since no one had seen a WR look like that since David Boston ruined himself. Wasn't just that he didn't have enough yards. Remember how he didn't have enough body fat? Lol.

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4 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

This isn't 1998. Time flies, i know. 

Snark from you? After this Jamarcus Russell of a thread?

1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

 

As the football world juggles a million different fads to accurately identify NFL prospects, many have either ignored, or forgotten, the most obvious, tried-and-tested indicator of success at the professional level: natural athleticism

 

Your very first paragraph talks about how the football community ignored or forgot natural athleticism. Peyton was one of the greatest prospects ever, the #1 overall pick, one of the GOATs, all while simultaneously being one of the least athletic players ever. Please advise where he fits in your timeline.

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is the part where any number of people chime in that he'd have sucked here anyway so it doesn't matter.

Who knows, if Sam had Metcalf and Robby, we might looking to continue building pieces around him rather than drafting his successor.

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25 minutes ago, predator_05 said:

 

Don't you think athleticism is a big factor in how well they're able to play? There's no matching bigger, stronger, faster...and they can LEARN how to play, all these guys are on a learning curve, they're not gonna play like seasoned vets from day 1...that's what many people seem to forget.

 

DK Metcalf was passed on because he apparently 'couldn't run routes'. This is the kind of absurd thinking that seems to prevail across the NFL nowadays. JJ Arcega whiteside knew how to 'play', and was drafted ahead of him for this very reason.

It's an abandonment of #commonsense. That's why these guys fall in the draft. 

 

 

Mahomes is not a substandard athlete, not even close. Cannon for an arm. Derrick Henry is basically a linebacker playing RB, he's the RB version of Metcalf, extremely unique and impossible to bring down at the second level. Thomas didn't blow up the combine, but his lateral agility and short-range burst should have been impossible to ignore, he could create separation with ease. 

 

Scouts are missing the most obvious things, and i don't know why. Is it really that hard?

lol - nothing you just mentioned is obvious and what you are you suggesting?  The Titans should have taken Henry #1 overall?

Because I think for them, they were probably happy getting Conklin in the 1st and Henry in the 2nd.

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Obviously athleticism is very important. The point of scouting these players it's a see who's a criminal, who's going to beat their wife, Who has been juicing, maybe selling drugs? Who can't read, and who is insane.

Somehow many of these guys slip through the cracks and get drafted anyway! LOL! Jail is full of guys who can run really fast.

You're talking about giving millions of dollars to very young men. Just think about your own circle of friends when you were in your early twenties, and how effed up everybody was in some way or another? How many very close friends turned out to be doctors, lawyers and politicians?

Just like you can't coach speed, you can't coach class either. Scouts need to know what kind of background these guys are coming from. It's all relevant.

I brought this up a few weeks ago in another post. The Jets drafted a guy during the Herm Edwards era, and in six months he lost about 50 lb and they thought he was sickly. It turns out he had never been alone and Far From Home, didn't know how to cook, or shop for food and could barely take care of himself.

This is back in the day when they were staying at the dorms at Hofstra during training camp and I don't the life of me remember the guy's name but I'm pretty sure he just left the team and went back home to Arkansas or something?

Point is there's a lot more to it than just athleticism.

 

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1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

As the football world juggles a million different fads to accurately identify NFL prospects, many have either ignored, or forgotten, the most obvious, tried-and-tested indicator of success at the professional level: natural athleticism. 

It's not difficult. The guys that are bigger, stronger and faster will probably...be good at football. At any position. Under most circumstances. 

The unheralded success of DK Metcalf and Justin Herbert might well inspire a return to #commonsense, and a scaling back of pointless and mostly extraneous data in modern day scouting. 

These were two highly criticized, unfairly underrated prospects, knocked down for everything other than their athletic prowess. It's almost as if the 'big NFL' tried to outsmart themselves into thinking that exceptional athleticism doesn't matter that much

Both of these prospects were prototypical athletes for their position; so much so...you'd think they'd been built in a lab. Yet, somehow...this simple fact eluded the entire NFL community. A calvin johnson-like wide receiver was the 9th WR drafted in his class. A skillful QB with an exceptional athletic profile was never close to being a consensus number 1 pick, and widely rumored to be a bust. Why? 

How did we even get here? By making athleticism just one of a thousand different 'boxes' on a scout's checklist. 

Somewhere along the line, the football elites, along with us fans, have forgotten that the game doesn't have to be complex. It's a pretty simple game, played by imperfect human beings. Many of whom are on a learning curve from day 1, largely reliant on circumstances beyond their control. 

A simple game necessitates clarity of thought, more than anything else. And there's nothing clearer to the eye than raw, natural, god-given athleticism. You can't teach it. Athleticism, allied with good #commonsense coaching, is often a guaranteed winner.

#intangibles and data have their place, but the predictive value of athleticism in a contact sport, is undefeated. If only more teams, especially the Jets, could realize this...and revert to #commonsense thinking. 

The problem with your thesis is that DK Metcalf's stock fell because of a lack of "athleticism" based off an astonishingly slow 3 cone drill. 

https://www.12up.com/posts/6310446-dk-metcalf-s-cone-drill-at-nfl-combine-was-actually-worse-than-tom-brady-s

We have drafted athletic freaks in the past like Vernon Gholston and how did that work out for us? 

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1 hour ago, predator_05 said:

As the football world juggles a million different fads to accurately identify NFL prospects, many have either ignored, or forgotten, the most obvious, tried-and-tested indicator of success at the professional level: natural athleticism. 

It's not difficult. The guys that are bigger, stronger and faster will probably...be good at football. At any position. Under most circumstances. 

The unheralded success of DK Metcalf and Justin Herbert might well inspire a return to #commonsense, and a scaling back of pointless and mostly extraneous data in modern day scouting. 

These were two highly criticized, unfairly underrated prospects, knocked down for everything other than their athletic prowess. It's almost as if the 'big NFL' tried to outsmart themselves into thinking that exceptional athleticism doesn't matter that much

Both of these prospects were prototypical athletes for their position; so much so...you'd think they'd been built in a lab. Yet, somehow...this simple fact eluded the entire NFL community. A calvin johnson-like wide receiver was the 9th WR drafted in his class. A skillful QB with an exceptional athletic profile was never close to being a consensus number 1 pick, and widely rumored to be a bust. Why? 

How did we even get here? By making athleticism just one of a thousand different 'boxes' on a scout's checklist. 

Somewhere along the line, the football elites, along with us fans, have forgotten that the game doesn't have to be complex. It's a pretty simple game, played by imperfect human beings. Many of whom are on a learning curve from day 1, largely reliant on circumstances beyond their control. 

A simple game necessitates clarity of thought, more than anything else. And there's nothing clearer to the eye than raw, natural, god-given athleticism. You can't teach it. Athleticism, allied with good #commonsense coaching, is often a guaranteed winner.

#intangibles and data have their place, but the predictive value of athleticism in a contact sport, is undefeated. If only more teams, especially the Jets, could realize this...and revert to #commonsense thinking. 

This is why we drafted Bechton, Joe D gets it.

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