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Belichick acknowledging the dynasty is over?


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Coach Belichick:  "Look, we're paying the price for a decade of selling out to push us over the top, takes time." Sports Media:  "His honesty is refreshing, we all know what's going on, he's got

Oh and don’t forget the cheating. Belichick’s a cheater. where’d he be without the cheating?  

When Gase wins 6 Superbowls then I'll be a lot more willing to listen to his excuses.

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How quickly his skin becomes thin when the greatest QB of all time is no longer bailing him out. Rex was right...”he’s just like the rest of us now.”

I do still think BB is a hall of fame coach, well worthy of that title and accolade. But with the cheating and Tom Brady being the clutchest player ever in the league...he does not deserve the “great coach ever” title IMO.

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Belichick in Cleveland and with Drew Bledsoe at QB early with the Pats was very pedestrian, even bad.

Belichick with Brady was history making football for two decades.

Now Belichick with Cam and Stidham looks a lot like those early Cleveland and Pats days again.

The one argument against this is the year Brady went out with the knee injury against KC and Bernard Pollard.  Belichick and QB Matt Cassel got the Patriots to 11-5.  That's when we heard the, "It's Belichick and not Brady" argument.

You could argue something similar now with Mike McCarthy not having Aaron Rodgers I guess.

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The Pats did win like 3-4 of their SBs by 3 points so the cheating might have played a major role.  But I'm still not going to write off BB as the GOAT HC.  The 1st SB was when Brady was a rookie.  The win against the Rams was by a score of 13-3. 

And there are plenty of HC's who would never be able to have that type of year-after-year success that BB had, even with TB12.  

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3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

When Gase wins 6 Superbowls then I'll be a lot more willing to listen to his excuses.

When a head coach is that good as to win 6 Super Bowls, it should be a clear signal that if he can't make it work neither can Gase.  Gase's experience is nowhere near Bellichick's.  Gase's roster is worse than Bellichick's.  Gase's culture is nowhere near Bellichick's.

Great coaches saddled with lousy rosters will struggle.  Never been better proof than this.  Same division, same opponents, same results.

Time to appreciate Coach Gase, TT2. 

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

When a head coach is that good as to win 6 Super Bowls, it should be a clear signal that if he can't make it work neither can Gase.  Gase's experience is nowhere near Bellichick's.  Gase's roster is worse than Bellichick's.  Gase's culture is nowhere near Bellichick's.

Great coaches saddled with lousy rosters will struggle.  Never been better proof than this.  Same division, same opponents, same results.

Time to appreciate Coach Gase, TT2. 

SAR I

I very much do appreciate Adam Gase.  In fact, I rank him #1 on my list of all-time bad Jet HCs.

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5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I very much do appreciate Adam Gase.  In fact, I rank him #1 on my list of all-time bad Jet HCs.

Coach Belichick would be 1-7 if he were coaching this Jets team.  He'd have found a way to hold on against Denver.  That's the difference between Gase and Belichick.  1 game.  All those wins, all those accolades, all that culture, he's no different than our head coach now.

No roster, no winning.  It's pretty simple stuff.  It's why Gase will be here in 2021 and probably 2022.

SAR I

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33 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

How quickly his skin becomes thin when the greatest QB of all time is no longer bailing him out. Rex was right...”he’s just like the rest of us now.”

I do still think BB is a hall of fame coach, well worthy of that title and accolade. But with the cheating and Tom Brady being the clutchest player ever in the league...he does not deserve the “great coach ever” title IMO.

What coach ever had success without a top flight qb?  Shula?lombardi? Reid? Cowher? Tomlin? Landry? Walsh? Jimmie Johnson? Noll?  I think maybe three fit the bill Coughlin, Parcells , and Gibbs.  But even there they had good QBs surrounded with good players.

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Coach Belichick would be 1-7 if he were coaching this Jets team.  He'd have found a way to hold on against Denver.  That's the difference between Gase and Belichick.  1 game.

No roster, no winning.  It's pretty simple stuff.  It's why Gase will be here in 2021 and probably 2022.

SAR I

He deserves at least through 2025.  And if Trevor Lawrence doesn't work out, he's owed at least 1 more QB after that.

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They definitely went all in last year, likely anticipating Brady’s last year.  I still think they win a superbowl without their injuries and if AB hadn’t went crazy.  It was also the first time where he wasn’t cap disciplined.

What’s interesting is that he’s responding here.  Usually he gives them nothing.  I think he’s feeling heat for the first time in a long time and hes worried about the narrative.  Ego?  Or maybe a message to someone.

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15 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Coach Belichick:  "Look, we're paying the price for a decade of selling out to push us over the top, takes time."

Sports Media:  "His honesty is refreshing, we all know what's going on, he's got good reasons."

Coach Gase:  "Look, we're paying the price for a decade of bad GM's and bad drafts, takes time."

Sports Media;  "How does this guy have a job?  Why isn't he fired?  Don't give me excuses!"

SAR I

I was thinking almost the same watching the bears- saints last night. Moron airman said that defenses get frustrated when the offense isn’t doing anything.  He was referring to the bears inability to move the ball in the second and third quarters. Of course it’s not like the saints were running away.  Anyway if the bears defense was getting with their offense you can just imagine how the jets defense must feel.

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8 minutes ago, rangerous said:

What coach ever had success without a top flight qb?  Shula?lombardi? Reid? Cowher? Tomlin? Landry? Walsh? Jimmie Johnson? Noll?  I think maybe three fit the bill Coughlin, Parcells , and Gibbs.  But even there they had good QBs surrounded with good players.

In addition, Mike Ditka (McMahon), Brian Billick (Dilfer), John Harbaugh (Flacco), Gary Kubiak (over-the-hill Peyton) all won SBs with crappy-to-pretty-good QBs.  Though they all had great defenses.

Gibbs is one of the most underrated HCs of all time (and he's in the HOF).

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Did the Pats ever really sell out to win?  I thought Brady always took way less than he could've demanded and the Pats always released/traded guys coming up for big contracts.  Plus, how do you sell out for a decade?  You sell out for 1-2 years, not 10.  

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1 minute ago, rangerous said:

What coach ever had success without a top flight qb?  Shula?lombardi? Reid? Cowher? Tomlin? Landry? Walsh? Jimmie Johnson? Noll?  I think maybe three fit the bill Coughlin, Parcells , and Gibbs.  But even there they had good QBs surrounded with good players.

Yes you are right in who fits the bill.

Parcells and Gibbs went to a combined 6 Super Bowls without Hall of Fame QB’s. Parcells won a super with Jeff Hostetler!

The difference between BB and the rest of that list though is the medias automatic declaration that BB=goat. 

He’s definitely one of the best ever. But, I don’t think he’s automatically #1.

 

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11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Coach Belichick would be 1-7 if he were coaching this Jets team.  He'd have found a way to hold on against Denver.  That's the difference between Gase and Belichick.  1 game.  All those wins, all those accolades, all that culture, he's no different than our head coach now.

No roster, no winning.  It's pretty simple stuff.  It's why Gase will be here in 2021 and probably 2022.

SAR I

This is the same logic that caused Bowles to be here for 4 years. 

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2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Did the Pats ever really sell out to win?  I thought Brady always took way less than he could've demanded and the Pats always released/traded guys coming up for big contracts.  Plus, how do you sell out for a decade?  You sell out for 1-2 years, not 10.  

Yeah TBH I don’t understand what he’s talking about. It’s not like the Chiefs who don’t have a dollar for any cap space 

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11 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Yes you are right in who fits the bill.

Parcells and Gibbs went to a combined 6 Super Bowls without Hall of Fame QB’s. Parcells won a super with Jeff Hostetler!

The difference between BB and the rest of that list though is the medias automatic declaration that BB=goat. 

He’s definitely one of the best ever. But, I don’t think he’s automatically #1.

 

To be fair though, Parcells won 2 SBs with BP as his DC.  In BP's other SB appearance (1996), BB was the assistant HC.  6 SB titles (in 9 appearances) as HC.  2 SB titles (in 3 appearances) as DC or assistant HC.  

So 12 SB appearances and 8 titles.  And I think all but 2 during the salary cap era.

I root against BB as strongly as anyone (Rex beating him in the divisional round was the best win I've seen as a Jet fan and the 18-1* season was deliciously sweet!) but, as a football fan, I have to respect the guy.

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1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

This is the same logic that caused Bowles to be here for 4 years. 

Well, maybe what we're seeing is the definitive answer to the entire question of head coaches philosophically.

Maybe the reason the Steelers and Ravens succeed with so few coaching changes is because they realize that they just need someone professional and competent in the job and that it's really all about the players, always has been.  So they eliminate the variable completely.  Through the bad times and the good, the President, Coach, and GM all stay in place year after year.  The only thing that changes are the players.  Veterans buy-in.  A culture develops.  Young drafted players buy-in.  Suddenly the whole team is playing cohesively.  Then they start winning.

Perhaps the teams that perpetually suck perpetually suck because they keep flipping perfectly acceptable head coaches and blow up the culture over and over again just because their fans and the media think they should.

SAR I

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Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

I root against BB as strongly as anyone but, as a football fan, I have to respect the guy.

Then you have to respect AG.  Because it's 2020 and AG and BB are the same head coach.  Hell, BB is worse.  He's the greatest HC of all time and he can't find wins and he looks stupid on the sidelines and he is caving to the media pressure.

SAR I

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Well, maybe what we're seeing is the definitive answer to the entire question of head coaches philosophically.

Maybe the reason the Steelers and Ravens succeed with so few coaching changes is because they realize that they just need someone professional and competent in the job and that it's really all about the players, always has been.  So they eliminate the variable completely.  Through the bad times and the good, the President, Coach, and GM all stay in place year after year.  The only thing that changes are the players.  Veterans buy-in.  A culture develops.  Young drafted players buy-in.  Suddenly the whole team is playing cohesively.  Then they start winning.

Perhaps the teams that perpetually suck perpetually suck because they keep flipping perfectly acceptable head coaches and blow up the culture over and over again just because their fans and the media think they should.

SAR I

I would accept your premise if Gase was actually an acceptable head coach.

Unfortunately, history doesn't bear that out.

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6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Then you have to respect AG.  Because it's 2020 and AG and BB are the same head coach.  Hell, BB is worse.  He's the greatest HC of all time and he can't find wins and he looks stupid on the sidelines and he is caving to the media pressure.

SAR I

Is BB's team 0-8?

Has BB's team lost by 20+ points in 50% of their games this year?  (4 of 8 )

Has BB's team lost by 10+ points in 75% of their games this year?  (6 of 8 ).

And absolutely NOBODY looks like a bigger idiot on the sidelines than Adam Gase.

Adam_Gase_hitting_the_smelling_salts_for_Jets_vs_Giants_preseason_game.gif.cd5536997775034e8c18b560c0cc5721.gif

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Just now, Kevin L said:

I would accept your premise if Gase was actually an acceptable head coach.

Unfortunately, history doesn't bear that out.

Sure, Gase may be a bum.  We haven't seen him coach a good roster yet, so we just don't know.

But watching Belichick's fall is extremely exciting because it proves the theorem that there is no such thing as a 'great' head coach.  It's all luck, circumstances, and roster.  I'm excited to not have to search for the next Parcells, it's too hard.  All we have to do is build a killer roster.  The head coach is an afterthought. 

SAR I

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45 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

The one argument against this is the year Brady went out with the knee injury against KC and Bernard Pollard.  Belichick and QB Matt Cassel got the Patriots to 11-5.  That's when we heard the, "It's Belichick and not Brady" argument.

That has been a dumb argument from day 1

Ths Pat's in 2007 went 16-0 and had one of, if not the best season in the history off football .. all against a tough schedule.

The Pat's in 2008 went 11-5 and missed the playoffs against one of the easiest schedules in football that year ( the entire east had easy schedules )

The drop off in performance from 2008 to 2007 is massive 

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1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Is BB's team 0-8?

Has BB's team lost by 20+ points in 50% of their games this year?  (4 of 8 )

Has BB's team lost by 10+ points in 75% of their games this year?  (6 of 8 )

Does AG have an experienced Super Bowl roster hand-picked by the head coach himself?

Does AG have an ex-NFL MVP as starting quarterback?

Does AG have one of the top offensive coordinators in the NFL?

Does AG have a Super Bowl culture that's been in place for two decades?

Does AG have a legendary aura that gets him all the calls from the officials?

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

AG looks better at 0-8 than BB does at 2-5.  And all that means is that the head coach of a franchise is actually not that important.  Players win games.  Let's go get some players.  Let's not worry about the coach right now.

SAR I

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Personally, I think Belichick is like Phil Jackson. A decent coach who lucked into some of the greatest players to ever play.

Right now, the Jets need a coach who can put mediocre players in a position where they can play at a higher level.

Adam Gase is not that coach.

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2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Does AG have an experienced Super Bowl roster hand-picked by the head coach himself?

Does AG have an ex-NFL MVP as starting quarterback?

Does AG have one of the top offensive coordinators in the NFL?

Does AG have a Super Bowl culture that's been in place for two decades?

Does AG have a legendary aura that gets him all the calls from the officials?

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

AG looks better at 0-8 than BB does at 2-5.  And all that means is that the head coach of a franchise is actually not that important.  Players win games.  Let's go get some players.  Let's not worry about the coach right now.

SAR I

Gase picked his OC and was involved in picking the players for the past 2 years (at least according to you).  He also has a very talented QB (who Gase was brought here to develop).

AG does not look better at 0-8 than BB does at 2-5.  In fact, AG looks worse than Rich Kotite.

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Didn't the Patriots have six defensive starters opt out due to COVID? I think the tales of their demise are a bit exaggerated but they certainly won't be Super Bowl contenders anytime soon. Cam is old and washed up and a stopgap, I assume they'll regroup and be better next year.

The offensive side of the ball has been a mess for years and it's pretty clear that's why Brady left. Belichick can't draft offensive players to save his life. 

These are the offensive skill position players they've drafted in the first three rounds in the last decade:

K'Neal Harry

Damien Harris

Sony Michel

James White

Aaron Dobson

Shane Vereen

Stevan Ridley

Their two 3rd round rookie TEs have combined for 1 rec for 8 yards.

James White has carved out a nice niche role throughout his career, the rest of them are average at best to complete busts. Belichick cannot evaluate offensive players coming out of college, though he can find good vets off the scrap heap that fit what they're trying to do.

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