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Belichick acknowledging the dynasty is over?


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Coach Belichick:  "Look, we're paying the price for a decade of selling out to push us over the top, takes time." Sports Media:  "His honesty is refreshing, we all know what's going on, he's got

Oh and don’t forget the cheating. Belichick’s a cheater. where’d he be without the cheating?  

When Gase wins 6 Superbowls then I'll be a lot more willing to listen to his excuses.

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31 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

In addition, Mike Ditka (McMahon), Brian Billick (Dilfer), John Harbaugh (Flacco), Gary Kubiak (over-the-hill Peyton) all won SBs with crappy-to-pretty-good QBs.  Though they all had great defenses.

Gibbs is one of the most underrated HCs of all time (and he's in the HOF).

I meant to add great coach.  You can add gruden (Johnson) to your list or even switzer, siefert, vermeil and Martz.

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1 minute ago, Kevin L said:

Personally, I think Belichick is like Phil Jackson. A decent coach who lucked into some of the greatest players to ever play.

Right now, the Jets need a coach who can put mediocre players in a position where they can play at a higher level.

Adam Gase is not that coach.

It's funny because I agree that Phil Jackson is way overrated (though he does have certain qualities that made him good for great teams).  I honestly think there's a chance an average Joe could've won a 1 title with those Bulls teams by just letting MJ be the player-coach.

The NFL is a whole different ballgame though.  There's no sport that coaching matters more in.  Yes BB was incredibly fortunate to work with both the GOAT defensive player and the GOAT offensive player but there are 3 phases of the game and plenty of other players on the field.

Adam Gase wouldn't have won a single SB with those Patriot teams the past 2 decades.  He'd probably have to be fortunate to even win a couple of playoff games.

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2 minutes ago, rangerous said:

I meant to add great coach.  You can add gruden (Johnson) to your list or even switzer, siefert, vermeil and Martz.

Siefert had Steve Young.  Vermeil had Kurt Warner.  Switzer had Aikman.

But yes to Gruden (though, again, a fantastic defense).

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33 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

Yes you are right in who fits the bill.

Parcells and Gibbs went to a combined 6 Super Bowls without Hall of Fame QB’s. Parcells won a super with Jeff Hostetler!

The difference between BB and the rest of that list though is the medias automatic declaration that BB=goat. 

He’s definitely one of the best ever. But, I don’t think he’s automatically #1.

 

I can go with that although he did keep his team in contention for a very long time. This string of success just isn’t supposed to happen this period of parity.

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Just now, TuscanyTile2 said:

Adam Gase wouldn't have won a single SB with those Patriot teams the past 2 decades.  He'd probably have to be fortunate to even win a couple of playoff games.

"Any coach would have won a ton of games with Peyton Manning.  He was calling his own plays, he was essentially his own offensive coordinator."

--TT2

"Adam Gase wouldn't have won more than a few playoff games with Tom Brady.  Tom just obeys his offensive coordinator, has no input at all."

--TT2

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10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

"Any coach would have won a ton of games with Peyton Manning.  He was calling his own plays, he was essentially his own offensive coordinator."

--TT2

"Adam Gase wouldn't have won more than a few playoff games with Tom Brady.  Tom just obeys his offensive coordinator, has no input at all."

--TT2

It wouldn't have been Brady's fault.  Gase would've been coaching the whole team. 

Fwiw, I don't think Gase would lose 1/3 of his games by 20+ points with those great Patriot teams.

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38 minutes ago, Coffee Is Great said:

Didn't the Patriots have six defensive starters opt out due to COVID? I think the tales of their demise are a bit exaggerated but they certainly won't be Super Bowl contenders anytime soon. Cam is old and washed up and a stopgap, I assume they'll regroup and be better next year.

The offensive side of the ball has been a mess for years and it's pretty clear that's why Brady left. Belichick can't draft offensive players to save his life. 

These are the offensive skill position players they've drafted in the first three rounds in the last decade:

K'Neal Harry

Damien Harris

Sony Michel

James White

Aaron Dobson

Shane Vereen

Stevan Ridley

Their two 3rd round rookie TEs have combined for 1 rec for 8 yards.

James White has carved out a nice niche role throughout his career, the rest of them are average at best to complete busts. Belichick cannot evaluate offensive players coming out of college, though he can find good vets off the scrap heap that fit what they're trying to do.

Great Point 

Gronk and AHearn were the only skill players worth a damn that were drafted in the last decade+

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48 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Sure, Gase may be a bum.  We haven't seen him coach a good roster yet, so we just don't know.

But watching Belichick's fall is extremely exciting because it proves the theorem that there is no such thing as a 'great' head coach.  It's all luck, circumstances, and roster.  I'm excited to not have to search for the next Parcells, it's too hard.  All we have to do is build a killer roster.  The head coach is an afterthought. 

SAR I

To your 1st paragraph, there might be something to that.  I've repeatedly said that he has proven that he can't lift a bad roster but potentially he can do okay with a good one.

Your 2nd paragraph is ridiculous though.  Are you really trying to argue that coaching in the NFL doesn't matter?  It's all luck, circumstances and roster?!  You certainly don't believe that.  Then why would you even praise Parcells?  Or mock the 4 HC's in your profile pic?  

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31 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It's funny because I agree that Phil Jackson is way overrated (though he does have certain qualities that made him good for great teams).  I honestly think there's a chance an average Joe could've won a 1 title with those Bulls teams by just letting MJ be the player-coach.

The NFL is a whole different ballgame though.  There's no sport that coaching matters more in.  Yes BB was incredibly fortunate to work with both the GOAT defensive player and the GOAT offensive player but there are 3 phases of the game and plenty of other players on the field.

Adam Gase wouldn't have won a single SB with those Patriot teams the past 2 decades.  He'd probably have to be fortunate to even win a couple of playoff games.

I totally agree. 

Good coaches make players better.

You can argue Phil Jackson made Pippen better.

You can argue Belichick made Cassel better.

Who has Gase made better?

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Yeah, BB may not be so great, but you can say this for him:

* he doesn't blame the players

* he finds a way to adjust at halftime

* his team is always prepared

* he is playing with an arm that is worse than Sams but is still in most games; we get blown out

* his team finds a way to score points in the second half

My problem Gase isn't so much that he is losing but the way he is losing. We are not competitive; we are embarrassing. BB plays to win, and Gase plays to - i have no idea. If a player is struggling or not playing well, BB replaces them and rookies play well; Gase won't play a player that isn't 40 years old. Players play better for BB; players regress for Gase.

Again, happy to see BB fall to earth. Happier for him to loose some of the shine now that he doesn't have Brady. But remember, BB won the first SB mostly on his defense. And then he adjusted when the offense took off. But you never look at a BB team and say they look flat or lost; they are always prepared. Are the Jets every prepared.

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4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Coach Belichick:  "Look, we're paying the price for a decade of selling out to push us over the top, takes time."

Sports Media:  "His honesty is refreshing, we all know what's going on, he's got good reasons."

Coach Gase:  "Look, we're paying the price for a decade of bad GM's and bad drafts, takes time."

Sports Media;  "How does this guy have a job?  Why isn't he fired?  Don't give me excuses!"

SAR I

Yup, because any word that comes of Gase's mouth absolutely deserves to carry the same clout as BB. 

One of the single most successful head coaches in sports history vs. A clinically antisocial, incapable of winning head coach that couldn't manage to execute my high school's playbook. 

Definitely same. 

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4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Coach Belichick would be 1-7 if he were coaching this Jets team.  He'd have found a way to hold on against Denver.  That's the difference between Gase and Belichick.  1 game.  All those wins, all those accolades, all that culture, he's no different than our head coach now.

No roster, no winning.  It's pretty simple stuff.  It's why Gase will be here in 2021 and probably 2022.

SAR I

If you turned PatsfanTX inside out you’d get SAR 😂 

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53 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

It's nobodies fault....isn't he also the GM?

If Belichick was 1/2 the diaboloical genuis he's believed to be he would've scooped up Mac last January as a built in scape goat.

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4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Coach Belichick would be 1-7 if he were coaching this Jets team.  He'd have found a way to hold on against Denver.  That's the difference between Gase and Belichick.  1 game. 

SAR I

Well, this is a very specific proclamation.  

Question: When you are pulling random bullsh*t out of your ass, do you dig from different spots? One finger? Two fingers? THREE fingers? 

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Brady is not a great let alone greatest qb

How quickly his skin becomes thin when the greatest QB of all time is no longer bailing him out. Rex was right...”he’s just like the rest of us now.”
I do still think BB is a hall of fame coach, well worthy of that title and accolade. But with the cheating and Tom Brady being the clutchest player ever in the league...he does not deserve the “great coach ever” title IMO.


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5 hours ago, SAR I said:

When a head coach is that good as to win 6 Super Bowls, it should be a clear signal that if he can't make it work neither can Gase.  Gase's experience is nowhere near Bellichick's.  Gase's roster is worse than Bellichick's.  Gase's culture is nowhere near Bellichick's.

Great coaches saddled with lousy rosters will struggle.  Never been better proof than this.  Same division, same opponents, same results.

Time to appreciate  Coach Gase TT2. 

SAR I

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He's without question the greatest HC of the modern NFL era.  The cap, free agency and drafts that tilt the playing field away from the best teams the job that the BB has done in New England has been nothing short of amazing.  A guy they drafted in the third round to replace Brady took the 49ers to the SB last year.  The Pats had the most opt outs of any NFL team this year.  They gave Cam a 1 year deal, this was obviously going to be a down year for them.

Anyone who is counting out BB and the Pats being right back in contention after a short rebuild is banking on wishful thinking.  He's not Rex Ryan, he's the ultimate grinder.  

He's the best HC the Jets ever had.  That's the sad truth.  Letting him get away was the defining moment for both the Jets and the Pats.    

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13 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

How quickly his skin becomes thin when the greatest QB of all time is no longer bailing him out. Rex was right...”he’s just like the rest of us now.”

I do still think BB is a hall of fame coach, well worthy of that title and accolade. But with the cheating and Tom Brady being the clutchest player ever in the league...he does not deserve the “great coach ever” title IMO.

That's redic. Look at his accomplishments. You can't take that away. I hate the guy for what he did to us but he is a great HC. 

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Belicheat could rebuild that team in a year or two. He'll draft Trey Lance, and return to winning ways by 2022. 

He still has a good eye for a player, and he can still improve scrubs like nobody else. How the hell does Jacoby Meyers look like a decent receiver? He also made the right call in letting Jimmy Garoppolo leave. 

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12 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Adam Gase wouldn't have won a single SB with those Patriot teams the past 2 decades.  He'd probably have to be fortunate to even win a couple of playoff games.

Didnt he win SB in Denver that was propelled by his offense ?

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19 minutes ago, CTM said:

Didnt he win SB in Denver that was propelled by his offense ?

Nope. 

In 2013-14, he was Denver's OC when they got smoked 43-8 by Seattle in the Superbowl.

In 2014-15, he stayed on as Denver's OC.  (Divisional round loss)

In 2015-16, he left to be the Bears' OC.  Denver won the Superbowl that year.

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21 minutes ago, CTM said:

Didnt he win SB in Denver that was propelled by his offense ?

Nope. Went into a shell the minute the center threw the snap over Peyton’s head against on the first play of the game against Seattle, and was already ruining the Bears before Denver’s next SB appearance.

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1 minute ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Nope. Went into a shell the minute the center threw the snap over Peyton’s head against on the first play of the game against Seattle, and was already ruining the Bears before Denver’s next SB appearance.

Ok but still. Winning SB's is about winning your division amd getting hyes first and foremost. The reasons NE has so many is they have been 1 or 2 seed something like 16 times?  The fact that he landed a #1 seed driven by his offenss would suggest over enough time he'd get one. 

It would be mostly Mannings credit for sure, but that's kind of my point here 

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5 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Nope. Went into a shell the minute the center threw the snap over Peyton’s head against on the first play of the game against Seattle, and was already ruining the Bears before Denver’s next SB appearance.

 

Peyton.gif.f7e66cd470f69ca36da68a8390da9bc5.gif

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14 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

Interesting quote from him you thought you’d never hear

He left out that they cheated all the way to the bank.

OP left a hanging chad on the thread title, too. It should read: 'Belichick acknowledging the dynasty is over, but not the cheating'. Must I do everything around here.

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12 hours ago, Kevin L said:

I totally agree. 

Good coaches make players better.

You can argue Phil Jackson made Pippen better.

You can argue Belichick made Cassel better.

Who has Gase made better?

Maybe Frank Gore

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13 hours ago, jetstream23 said:

Belichick in Cleveland and with Drew Bledsoe at QB early with the Pats was very pedestrian, even bad.

Belichick with Brady was history making football for two decades.

Now Belichick with Cam and Stidham looks a lot like those early Cleveland and Pats days again.

The one argument against this is the year Brady went out with the knee injury against KC and Bernard Pollard.  Belichick and QB Matt Cassel got the Patriots to 11-5.  That's when we heard the, "It's Belichick and not Brady" argument.

You could argue something similar now with Mike McCarthy not having Aaron Rodgers I guess.

And Rex Ryan won 11 games with Mark Sanchez one year too.

Also, the year he won 11 games with Cassel they didn't even get into the playoffs.  It was a strange year with just a lot of really bad teams and a handful of good ones.

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