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Jets and Jaguars projected to finish at 2-14 by statistical websites giving the Jags the first pick.


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8 hours ago, Jetster said:

We have zero pass rush & a bad secondary and we can't score points. The Tri FECTA 

No way in hell we beat the Raiders, Gruden gets his revenge for the azz whooping we gave them the last time they came to NY. Who covers Waller? Jacobs is balling out & a tough SOB, Ruggs? Agholor, Williams & Renfro. 

The Raiders might drop 50 on us. 

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8 hours ago, neckdemon said:

its hard to find a win on the jets schedule anywhere. no way bellichick will just sit back and watch the pats lose to the worst team in the league willingly

Who thinks Cam Newton/Bellicheck or any Patriot wants to lose to the 0-8 Jets IN PRIMETIME ON MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL?  Come on, I know everyone is spooked by Darth Vader and all, but lets use some common sense.  Unless the Jets play the best game of their collective lives, and the Pats turn the ball over say, 2 or 3 times is the only way I see us winning.  Did mention that Flacco, the human statue will be starting at quarterback tonight?    If the Pats get a lead.... sorry I meant to say WHEN the Pats get a lead they are going to be blitz Flacco into semi-retirement.  In fact I would not be surprised if he doesn't finish the game and Morgan or White has to play (now THEY are the wild card in this scenario as we have no idea what to expect from either of them.)

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Colts (1998 - Peyton Manning) are the obvious example.  The Rams (1997 - Orlando Pace) probably would not have been the "greatest show on turf" without their HOF Left Tackle.  The Panthers (2011 - Cam) and Rams (2016 - Goff) each went to Super Bowls.  The Browns (2017-18 back to back) and Cardinals (2019 - Kyler Murray) are both 5-3 this season and have their sights set on the postseason.  Everyone loves to make fun of the Lions but where would they be without picking 1st in 2009 (Matthew Stafford)?  They were bad with him, but they'd be a complete joke without him for over a decade.

Even the Andrew Luck Colts had some really good seasons.  They won 11 games in each of the first 3 seasons with Luck under center.  People take that for granted because on the surface they seemed like a really well run organization, but in reality they were a dumpster fire with Irsay running the show.  That team should have won at least 4 Super Bowls with Peyton/Luck as their QB's for nearly 2 decades.

I'm talking about the year they got to be the worst team in the league. Any team can turn it around quickly in today's NFL with a new coach, lots of picks and cash to spend. The Rams were good because Kurt Warner was great when the Rams plugged him in - nobody knew how good he was going to be as he was packing groceries not too long prior. That team was loaded with offensive talent - Faulk, Bruce, Holt. You're kind of proving my point with parts of your post though. It just shows the importance of the great QB. It pays to suck when one or two are going to be available. We may have finally gotten this right - long way to go though.

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21 hours ago, oatmeal said:

People still calling Luck the Generational Talent from the 2012 Draft, when hes out the league and Russell Wilson hasn’t missed a game and every year since starting been a legit mvp candidate. 
 

And besides looking back what would it luck of Wilson? Arm talent? Running? Because Russell does both better imo. So there’s that ?‍♂️

 

Luck was absolutely the generational talent he was talked up to be. The Colts ruined his career by not getting an adequate Oline until after he decided to retire before 30 because he didn't want to be crippled the rest of his life. 

IMO Luck was the last projected QB talent of a draft that actually lived up to what he was supposed to be. 

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20 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Only other possible win is against Pats game 16 at Foxboro. No way BB takes the loss at home. Will be healthier that game also. Sam’s last game to shine b4 draft

Hopefully Jacksonville gets a win by then that way we’re guaranteed the overall spot even if we win. 

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3 hours ago, MichaelScott said:

Luck was absolutely the generational talent he was talked up to be. The Colts ruined his career by not getting an adequate Oline until after he decided to retire before 30 because he didn't want to be crippled the rest of his life. 

IMO Luck was the last projected QB talent of a draft that actually lived up to what he was supposed to be. 

If Luck was generational what is Russell Wilson.. and what exactly makes Luck a generational prospect?

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3 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

If Luck was generational what is Russell Wilson.. and what exactly makes Luck a generational prospect?

Because coming out of college the scouts "deemed" Luck a generational talent and he fulfilled that expectation. Wilson was not viewed the same way out of college. Most #1 overall draftpicks do not fully fulfill expectations. Luck did.

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On 11/8/2020 at 9:15 PM, Jetsbb said:

Jag's remaining schedule: @ GB; vs Pitt; vs Cleveland; @ Minn; vs Tenn; @ Balt; vs Chicago; @ Indy 

Jets remaining schedule: @ LA Chargers; vs Miami; vs Vegas; @ Seattle; @ LA Rams; vs Cleveland; @ New England

The Jags most likely chances of winning are Cleveland and Chicago at home

The Jets most likely chances of winning are at the Chargers and home vs Cleveland.

Although the Bears are IMO better than the Chargers, since the Jets play the Chargers in LA and the Jags gets the Bears in Jax, that's close to a wash.  We'll know more in 2 weeks. If the Jets lose at the Chargers, I believe they should be favored for the #1 overall pick.

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3 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Because coming out of college the scouts "deemed" Luck a generational talent and he fulfilled that expectation. Wilson was not viewed the same way out of college. Most #1 overall draftpicks do not fully fulfill expectations. Luck did.

Okay I’m not saying what he was deemed I’m asking what particular part of his game was generational? Average arm strength, average running ability and more importantly poor durability. Not exactly generational in my book.

Russell Wilson who has never missed a game won a Super Bowl and is in constant mvp talks I would call that the generational player. But what do I know ?‍♂️

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14 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Okay I’m not saying what he was deemed I’m asking what particular part of his game was generational? Average arm strength, average running ability and more importantly poor durability. Not exactly generational in my book.

Russell Wilson who has never missed a game won a Super Bowl and is in constant mvp talks I would call that the generational player. But what do I know ?‍♂️

There is a reason Luck was a consensus First Overall pick and Wilson lasted until the 3d round of the NFL draft. If you want to ignore those reasons, that's just you putting your head in the sand.

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18 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Okay I’m not saying what he was deemed I’m asking what particular part of his game was generational? Average arm strength, average running ability and more importantly poor durability. Not exactly generational in my book.

Russell Wilson who has never missed a game won a Super Bowl and is in constant mvp talks I would call that the generational player. But what do I know ?‍♂️

"Generational prospect" and "generational player" are two different things.

John Elway was both.  Andrew Luck was in the former group only (though his career did start off very well).  Pat Mahomes is in the latter group only.

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Fine by me!

 

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uga justin fields GIF

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@JiF

Fields seems like as good of a prospect as Lawrence to me. He has sort of a "old school" passing motion but his release is pretty fast and seems to have an exceptional arm and excellent accuracy. Seems to have an exceptionally sturdy frame. He does not look on to targets noticeably like many prospects and seems he would have the added element of dynamic running ability. When I watch Fields I see a lot if "pro caliber" throws. When I watch Lawrence he has those too, but way more dump offs and screens that rely on YAC. I see Fields as more of a downfield deep out guy and Lawrence more a West Coast type of QB. No claim to be a skilled evaluator just what I see.

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2 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

There is a reason Luck was a consensus First Overall pick and Wilson lasted until the 3d round of the NFL draft. If you want to ignore those reasons, that's just you putting your head in the sand.

Still didn’t answer me, it’s okay was hard for me to find anything truly generational in lucks game too

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20 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Still didn’t answer me, it’s okay was hard for me to find anything truly generational in lucks game too

 

Quote

 

It is seemingly unanimous among NFL scouts and front-office personnel that Stanford redshirt junior Andrew Luck is the top quarterback prospect to come along in the past 30 years, a once-in-a-generation player almost guaranteed to become an immediate star at the next level.

So what makes Luck so special? Everything. He has no glaring weakness and grades out favorably against the top prospects in recent history. Our comparison focuses on three other can't-miss quarterbacks from the past three decades: John Elway, Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan.

We've studied the tape and broken down Luck's game in 10 categories, judging him against the draft-day grades we had on Elway, Manning and Ryan. Dive in and see how they compare.

This is one of Andrew Luck's stronger points as a quarterback, and two things jump out when studying film of his throws within 15 yards of the line of scrimmage.

First, his touch is excellent. Luck understands trajectory, how to drop a ball over a defender trailing his receiver, or before his receiver reaches a defender in front of him. He leads receivers effectively so they catch balls in stride and don't have to adjust to passes, allowing them to utilize every available second after the catch.

Second, Luck uses ball placement to throw his receivers open. They are often so focused on the ball and defenders around them that they don't have a great feel for where they need to be when the ball arrives. Luck knows how to put the ball where only the receiver can get to it, and that includes throwing behind receivers and even forcing them off their routes in order to get them to a soft spot in the coverage, or into a window that allows them the best chance to make a play after the catch. -- Todd McShay

There's a difference between having the option to make the deep throw and having the ability to do it. Andrew Luck throws the deep ball accurately, and with little effort. He's a powerful player through the legs, and drives his throws with his lower half in the same way a pitcher like Detroit's Justin Verlander creates "easy heat" by generating velocity without using a violent motion. Luck, however, simply hasn't had the option to throw the deep ball very often.

Stanford lost talented (and clearly underrated) wide receiver Doug Baldwin to graduation, and WR Chris Owusu has been limited this year by injuries. This offense is almost entirely built around Luck's ability to utilize tight ends and running backs to open things up on the outside, so people wondering if Luck can throw the deep ball need not worry; he just needs targets that make it worth throwing. -- Mel Kiper

I believe arm strength is one of the most overrated aspects of quarterback evaluations, but a prospect still must be able to make all the necessary throws. In Luck's case, this is one of his weaker areas.

The ball does not explode out of his hand and will flutter at times, and he does not put a lot of RPMs on the ball like Jay Cutler, Matthew Stafford or Michael Vick, all of whom can really spin it.

Still, a lack of elite arm strength is not a glaring weakness for Luck. In fact, he grades out above average. He can make all the throws and puts good zip on intermediate throws. His timing also helps ease concerns in this area, because Luck gets the ball out in time to get it downfield on certain deep patterns.

Luck compares to Peyton Manning and Matt Ryan in this area. Manning is one of the all-time greats and Ryan one of the up-and-coming passers in the league, so I'm not worried. -- Todd McShay

Andrew Luck is an underclassman so we won't have official scouting measurements on him until the NFL combine, but by all accounts he should compare well to current NFL quarterbacks.

He has big hands -- important for throwing in adverse weather -- and his frame appears above-average. Luck is expected to come in right around the NFL average of 6-foot-3¾ for current quarterbacks, and he should have somewhere in the neighborhood of 235 well-distributed pounds on his frame (NFL average: 229). His stature has allowed him to remain durable despite taking his fair share of punishment in the pocket and not shying away from contact as a runner.

The other measurable worth mentioning is the Wonderlic test, which ostensibly assesses mental aptitude. The average score for today's NFL quarterback is 30, with a low of 14 and a high of 39 (Peyton and Eli Manning), and Luck is again expected to be on the high end. If you were building an ideal quarterback from scratch, you might end up with Luck. -- Todd McShay

The only negative I see for Andrew Luck in this area is a tendency to pat the ball before he throws. It's not a pronounced motion like Drew Bledsoe showed coming out of college, but more of a slight tap. Still, he'll need to work on that to avoid tipping off defenders as to his intentions.

Otherwise, Luck's over-the-top delivery is quick and smooth. His footwork is solid and he can change his release point depending on how defenders are affecting his passing windows. Luck can drop down to get the ball around defenders in his face or get it out high to avoid rushers with their hands up. That's something he'll have to do even more of in the NFL, but Luck can change up his arm angles and remain accurate as well.

The quickness of his release isn't overwhelming, but it's quick enough, and he is a natural thrower. Manning is a bit quicker and has learned to follow through with his entire body to help his arm strength, which is also something Luck will continue to work on. -- Todd McShay

Andrew Luck works the pocket well, displays good footwork and doesn't back up in the face of pressure like other prospects. Luck's mental clock is particularly impressive. He hangs in as long as possible to give receivers time to get open, knows how to sidestep pressure up the middle and is adept at stepping up to avoid edge rushers. He won't require a lot of shotgun looks as he develops because he already has the instincts to manage the pocket.

John Elway might have been a better runner than Luck, but he was not as technically sound in the pocket. Luck excels at keeping his eyes downfield and his footwork intact as he moves in the pocket, whereas film of Elway shows him bringing his eyes down to assess pressure, then back up when he's in the clear.

Luck has had the protection of fellow first-rounders OT Jonathan Martin and G David DeCastro this season and will surely face a bigger pass rush in the NFL, but he's certainly equipped to handle it. -- Mel Kiper and Todd McShay

Many will be surprised with Andrew Luck's NFL combine and pro day results. The guy is an athlete who has rushed for nearly 1,000 yards at Stanford. It's not that NFL teams see him as the next Tim Tebow, but Luck can flat-out move. Much like Green Bay's Aaron Rodgers, Luck is going to give you value when it comes to picking up first downs when the play breaks down.

The mobility is also evident in other ways. Luck throws well on the move; you can roll him out to the left or right, and while I wouldn't put Luck ahead of John Elway in terms of overall running talent, he's certainly ahead of Manning. Luck isn't merely "mobile" in the sense that he can move around in the backfield. He can actually hurt you with his legs, and he'll be smart enough to slide at the end of runs in the NFL. -- Mel Kiper

We at Scouts Inc. have studied the college production of 20 of the top quarterbacks in the NFL, and Andrew Luck would be above average in every category.

Luck will finish with 38 career starts, slightly above the average of 35 for the players we studied, and with only the Fiesta Bowl remaining, his 70.3 completion percentage over his final two seasons is higher than any in the study. In addition, his 3.9-to-1 touchdown-interception ratio is significantly higher than the 2.5-to-1 average in the study, and Luck has done it in a pro-style system rather than a spread like leader Sam Bradford (5.4-to-1).

But in the end, it's all about wins. Luck's career winning percentage of .838 (31-6) would be among the elite in our review, and his .920 mark (23-2) over his past two seasons would tie Michael Vick for the top spot. All this is more impressive because he has done it with a pedestrian supporting cast and a lack of receiving talent this season because of injuries. -- Todd McShay

In measuring Andrew Luck's toughness, don't just look at the hits he takes, or the hits he's dished out, or even his willingness to get out and block on a reverse. His toughness starts before the hits ever happen. With Luck, it's all about progressions. His toughness is found there, because even in the face of a rush, he keeps his eyes down the field, gets through his reads and steps into contact to make the right throw.

So many times we judge a quarterback's toughness on his ability to take a hit. But what kind of throw he is making before that hit arrives and what kind of decision-making process he's going through as pressure builds are pivotal. I'd rate Luck similarly to a guy like Peyton Manning in terms of toughness, and we know Manning is as durable as he is gifted. But it's not just because he has the size to take a hit. It's because he is willing to take a hit to make the throw. -- Mel Kiper

People will compare Andrew Luck to Peyton Manning based on how they sense the pocket, get through their progressions and throw with great accuracy, but the best comparison is based on what each does before the snap. Luck is like Manning in that he makes a ton of his own calls. This is, more or less, his offense, and that's because he has an incredible capacity to store information. Former Stanford and current 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh said he's never seen a player who is Luck's equal in that regard. In some ways, this makes Luck's physical skills secondary in terms of his potential.

Luck acts as an extension of the coach, and seems to absorb and process everything. This is a high school valedictorian, and when you combine that intellect with the physical prowess, you get great execution. I think this is the most underrated aspect of Luck's game. -- Mel Kiper

http://www.espn.com/nfl/feature/video/_/page/allaboutluck/ultimate-scouting-report

 

:Dadd::thumbup: 

 

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39 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

 

:Dadd::thumbup: 

 

??‍♂️

 

you quoted a scouting report you didn’t publish. ? Luck is out the league with no mvps or SB’s and a dude picked in his draft had the polar opposite career. Russell Wilson was the generational QB talent in the 2012 draft period.

 

now again “Dad” what part of Lucks game or career  made him a generational talent? I’m still waiting for you to answer this not regurgitate nonsense from wrong “experts”. 

 

 

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52 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

??‍♂️

 

you quoted a scouting report you didn’t publish. ? Luck is out the league with no mvps or SB’s and a dude picked in his draft had the polar opposite career. Russell Wilson was the generational QB talent in the 2012 draft period.

 

now again “Dad” what part of Lucks game or career  made him a generational talent? I’m still waiting for you to answer this not regurgitate nonsense from wrong “experts”. 

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

"Generational prospect" and "generational player" are two different things.

John Elway was both.  Andrew Luck was in the former group only (though his career did start off very well).  Pat Mahomes is in the latter group only.

 

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20 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

If we're now 0-9 (.000%) and off to worse start than even our 1-15 1996 Jets; I highly doubt that we'll win two more games and go 2-5 (.400%). 

1-15 is the very best we can go; which means 1 more Jaguars win and we're guaranteed the #1 overall pick and Trevor Lawrence. 

Wouldn't be so sure. Like I said before - for a team to go 0-16 you have to be bad and unlucky. Even the 0-16 Browns a couple years ago could've won 5-6 games if not for a bad bounce of the ball.

With Mims/Perriman/Crowder playing and Becton out there, the offense looked sorta competent. They're still a bad team but not an all time disgrace. It wouldn't shock me if they beat the Browns and the Raiders.

 

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17 hours ago, oatmeal said:

I didn’t reply the first time because your  proving my point that Andrew Luck wasn’t a generational player. I don’t know why you keep posting that 

I never argued he's a generational player.  My argument is that generational PROSPECT and generational PLAYER is different. 

Luck was a generational prospect who ended up a very good player, but didn't live up to his billing.  John Elway was a generational prospect who ended up a generational player.

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On 11/10/2020 at 10:03 AM, oatmeal said:

If Luck was generational what is Russell Wilson.. and what exactly makes Luck a generational prospect?

I havent said anything about Russell Wilson. In fact he is just another example that proves my original point which was that I'm not going to lose my mind over having the 1st vs. 2nd pick because the top QB everyone raves about rarely ends up being the best QB in the draft, letalone a FQB. 

If you can't see the type of QB Luck was from the second he stepped on the field, I don't know what to tell you. 

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56 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

I havent said anything about Russell Wilson. In fact he is just another example that proves my original point which was that I'm not going to lose my mind over having the 1st vs. 2nd pick because the top QB everyone raves about rarely ends up being the best QB in the draft, letalone a FQB. 

If you can't see the type of QB Luck was from the second he stepped on the field, I don't know what to tell you. 

Luck was on his way to a HOF career. His body broke down. It happens. 

 

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