Seattle, what would they get knowing what they now know

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And losing him didn't cause the Jets to be 0-9.  They'd be 0-9 with him.  Nothing Adams did on the field here, or is doing on the field in Seattle, supports an argument that the team would be discernibly better with him here.

you can believe this but you can't prove it 

vice versa for me believing Adams makes this team 9-0 

these are pure hypotheticals and not at all what passes for "proof" 

here's a hypothetical they needed 1 play to get off the field last week against NEP i believe they win MNF with 33 and i'd rather live in a world where the Jets beat the Patriots than the opposite 

i don't understand how you can warp the definitions of success so much that losing has become the desired outcome 

the draft just isn't that powerful, trust me, i've checked 

 

[bitonti]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We are in full agreement the Johnson's are incompetent, though I disagree with the spending argument.  Maccagnan spent heavily on free agents here.  But that's a separate issue with what we're talking about here.

any Adams discussion is at root a spending argument

Mac and Idzik spent on Mercenaries once every 4 years to get the team above the floor 

that's not the same as spending constantly to keep the roster healthy 

the team trades guys like Adams, Leo, Sheldon etc rather than pay these players because it is cheap 

and it sells cap space and coach firings to whatever fans are left as victories

[slimjasi]

3 minutes ago, JiF said:

If I believed Sam/Gase were the future, I'd be pulling for a strong finish but they're not so dont **** this up.

 

That's the sad part of this all - if these guys gave us any reason to think they were part of the future, none of us would be talking about Lawrence/Fields/Harbaugh/Roman/Bieniemy. 

It turns out being 0-9 is really bad for your future employment status. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

you can believe this but you can't prove it 

vice versa for me believing Adams makes this team 9-0 

these are pure hypotheticals and not at all what passes for "proof" 

here's a hypothetical they needed 1 play to get off the field last week against NEP i believe they win MNF with 33 and i'd rather live in a world where the Jets beat the Patriots than the opposite 

i don't understand how you can warp the definitions of success so much that losing has become the desired outcome 

the draft just isn't that powerful, trust me, i've checked 

 

 

The draft is very powerful for GM's who know how to draft.  I believe Douglas is one of those guys.  His former employer, the Ravens were VERY much in that category.  You think the draft is a crapshoot.  It's a lot more like poker.  In poker, there's a reason some of the same people tend to end up at the final table all the time.

Not only do I like the idea of having the top pick (or # 2, as I like both of the top 2 QB prospects almost equally), I like the idea of picking first in each round of the draft, too.  The idea of having 3 picks in the top 33 is one of the few exciting things to think about when it comes to the Jets at the moment.  

[slimjasi]

Just now, bitonti said:

any Adams discussion is at root a spending argument

Mac and Idzik spent on Mercenaries once every 4 years to get the team above the floor 

that's not the same as spending constantly to keep the roster healthy 

the team trades guys like Adams, Leo, Sheldon etc rather than pay these players because it is cheap 

and it sells cap space and coach firings to whatever fans are left as victories

Can I ask you a question? 

From reading your posts, you have been (wisely) off the Darnold bandwagon for awhile. Much longer than I have. 

So, if you don't want to tank, imagine we win 3 of the last 7 games and miss out on Lawrence and Fields - What's your plan at QB? Also, since you are big on establishing winning as a habit and turning 3 wins into 5 wins into 7 wins (etc.), does that mean you want to keep Gase? (Changing the coach would change the magical "winning culture" that you are trying to establish, wouldn't it?)

I guess I just don't see the promising endgame that comes from eeking out a few wins at the end of this season. 

[bitonti]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not only do I like the idea of having the top pick (or # 2, as I like both of the top 2 QB prospects almost equally), 

it's stuff like this that concerns me about the draft

If we don't have a clear favorite for 1 how do we even know these guys are good at all 

Mahomes went 10

Big Ben went 12 

Russell Wilson went 3rd rd 

this dude from North Dakota state might be better than both but he's played 1 game this year 

this is a compromised year ill say it again because the tank crowd breezes right by 

to use your poker analogy it's like having more chips in a year when the world series main event prize money is cut in half 

[bitonti]

7 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Can I ask you a question? 

From reading your posts, you have been (wisely) off the Darnold bandwagon for awhile. Much longer than I have. 

So, if you don't want to tank, imagine we win 3 of the last 7 games and miss out on Lawrence and Fields - What's your plan at QB? Also, since you are big on establishing winning as a habit and turning 3 wins into 5 wins into 7 wins (etc.), does that mean you want to keep Gase? (Changing the coach would change the magical "winning culture" that you are trying to establish, wouldn't it?)

I guess I just don't see the promising endgame that comes from eeking out a few wins at the end of this season. 

it's not rocket science

my plan at QB is what the Jets should have been doing from day 1 

COMPETITION

they need to draft a QB every year until they find them and make them compete 

for 2020 i'd install a variant of the RPO and start James Morgan

the Jets have been trying to fit Darnold and Flacco into Gase's outdated terrible "crossing routes" 2008 offense 

these players all grew up playing RPO spread stop fighting it and get with the new millenium 

if they have to fire Gase midseason to install RPO so be it. Coaches usually fit their talent to the situation not force the talent into their system 

what's the end result here maybe they are mediocre instead of bad but if they can find a cheaper solution at QB they can use the premium picks elsewhere 

and if they let these guys compete in a fair fight, maybe Morgan would have beaten Darnold out in camp. Flacco's neck was broken but if he was healthy in the summer he'd be the honest QB1 on this team 

 all I want is the QB position to be treated like every other position on the team. Instead the Jets coronate these players and don't let the best player play. Legit, James Morgan and Flacco are better than Darnold and JD knows that 

the fans WANTED darnold to be better but that's not really the same as being better 

because of the heirarchy he can't really force Gase to do anything but to answer your question James Captain Morgan should get real reps in a system he can thrive

if they throw him out there in Gase's offense, Flacco is a better option. 

[slimjasi]

5 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's not rocket science

my plan at QB is what the Jets should have been doing from day 1 

COMPETITION

they need to draft a QB every year until they find them and make them compete 

for 2020 i'd install a variant of the RPO and start James Morgan

the Jets have been trying to fit Darnold and Flacco into Gase's outdated terrible "crossing routes" 2008 offense 

these players all grew up playing RPO spread stop fighting it and get with the new millenium 

if they have to fire Gase midseason to install RPO so be it. Coaches usually fit their talent to the situation not force the talent into their system 

what's the end result here maybe they are mediocre instead of bad but if they can find a cheaper solution at QB they can use the premium picks elsewhere 

and if they let these guys compete in a fair fight, maybe Morgan would have beaten Darnold out in camp. Flacco's neck was broken but if he was healthy in the summer he'd be the honest QB1 on this team 

 all I want is the QB position to be treated like every other position on the team. Instead the Jets coronate these players and don't let the best player play. Legit, James Morgan and Flacco are better than Darnold and JD knows that 

the fans WANTED darnold to be better but that's not really the same as being better 

because of the heirarchy he can't really force Gase to do anything but to answer your question James Captain Morgan should get real reps in a system he can thrive

if they throw him out there in Gase's offense, Flacco is a better option. 

I like a lot of this, but I'll just say this:

In order for the "winning meaningless games in a lost season begets more winning down the road" argument to work, you have to have the right guys in the building. In particular, you have to have the right QB and the right coach. Personally, I don't believe we have either. Getting the number 1 pick goes a long way towards helping us get both. 

[GaryM]

That wasn't an essay question!

We both saw how it ended between the Jets and 33
the dude shot his way out of town 
if this is an outcome where 33 never talked crap because they paid him in Feb and CJ didn't opt out and the team didn't give up before the season started, and all those other good players didn't traded, yes i would take that deal
currently with Jamal's 6.5 dead space for being traded and all the other dead space they've accumulated in the name of rebuilding (45 mil with the trades of Avery, Bell, McClendon etc)  it's not like they could trade him back per se 
yes I'd like to be entering the bye week with a team semi-functional and mediocre rather than winless and terrible 
but no to trade for 33 at this point 0-9 and everyone hating each other doesn't make much sense 
it didn't have to be this way is my point 
everyone assumes that rock bottom is better than just bad 
that somehow the only way to victory is to clean house and lose as much as possible
it's not a winning recipe it's some kind of performance art to see how bad a business can be and still make money 
 

Sent from my LM-X410(FG) using JetNation.com mobile app

[Mogglez]

On 11/9/2020 at 2:05 PM, 14 in Green said:

Draft picks that make a difference on a team?

I’ve heard stories about that happening for teams, but I look around and I see Morgan, Zuniga, Davis, Mims, the Bryce guy, a punter and a LT that your grandmother knew was the ultimate no brainer pick at where we were.

Keep ripping Adams though. That late 1st next year and the other one a year later (actually = to a 2nd and a 3rd I’ve been told ?) will hopefully work out better than the picks we got for Leo.

Or maybe question our GM for not trading Adams before the draft, and maybe getting a player like Lamb. You know, someone who plays a position of need, gets on the field, and contributes?

The highlighted is wrong.  Anyone who follows college ball knows that Mekhi was the ultimate boom-or-bust pick and was considered anything but “a LT that your grandmother knew was the ultimate no-brainer pick at where we were.”

Denzel Mims, when Gase and Loggains decide to use him has absolutely shown he belongs.

Davis is coming off an absolutely phenomenal game.

Bryce Hall was selected in the 5th round, was expected to only play the second half of the season, and looked really good in his first action in almost a full year.

Braden Mann has been great, especially given how often he is used in this awful offense.

Morgan is a developing back-up.

Zuniga isn’t getting enough snaps on base defense to make an impact, probably because he got hurt early and they’re easing him back in.  Don’t leave out Bryce Huff who has been an excellent UDFA pick up.

[14 in Green]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

This is absolutely wrong.

Perhaps, but it was written with conviction wasn't it?

How are you and dad doing? It's been a while...

[Mogglez]

3 minutes ago, 14 in Green said:

Perhaps, but it was written with conviction wasn't it?

How are you and dad doing? It's been a while...

See my updated post for a more thorough breakdown of the players lol.

We’re doing well!  It has been.  Hope all is well with you too!  Good to see you back (our disagreement here aside ?).

[14 in Green]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

See my updated post for a more thorough breakdown of the players lol.

We’re doing well!  It has been.  Hope all is well with you too!  Good to see you back (our disagreement here aside ?).

Just saw the update... Funny, I posted yesterday in a Becton thread that"everyone knew he was the ultimate boom or bust guy" and talked about why he still could end up either one despite looking as good as he does when he's out there.  You aren't stealing my stuff, are you?

 

BTW one of the reasons why I like you and your dad so much is that we can disagree about something, but still get along when we're done arguing about it. 

[pdxgreen]

On 11/9/2020 at 9:38 AM, Mogglez said:

 

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Giving up all that draft capital for a safety who cant play single high...cant believe Seattle did that. Made no sense at the time and they'd be lucky to get a 2nd for Adams right now.

It was a strange move by them considering the Seahawks have been one of the better managed NFL teams of the past 10 years

[Philc1]

19 hours ago, slimjasi said:

This is a good way to look at it. 

Given what the rest of the league has seen through 9 weeks of play, what would Seattle get for Adams right now, keeping in mind that he is looking to get paid? 

A 3rd

[Defense Wins Championships]

I remember in the "Jamal to Dallas" thread there were absolute clueless Jet fans willing to see him traded for a single 17th overall pick. 

But not me. 

These were my exact words...

"It's absolutely pathetic. Unless it's for two 1st round picks + another 4th round pick JD won't even entertain the idea of a trade; so it's pointless to talk about unless you're referring to a K. Mack type of blockbuster trade..."

And months later, I was proven to be correct in my assessment of #33's trade value. 

I was lauged @ by certain Jet fans for demanding a Khalil Mack type of trade package in return and guess what? I was right. You Dallas fan boys were wrong; because we ended up landing two 1st and a 3rd (traded a 4th) for Jamal's Jet service's. 

I hope to God that JD lands us two explosive 1st round offensive weapon's for Trevor Lawrence over the next two drafts plus another solid 3rd round starter that way I can mush those further players right in the face of Jet fans who wanted to trade away Adams to Dallas for a "1st and a 3rd" lol

JD hits HR's with our two first round picks from Seattle? And I'll always be thankful for Jamal's on field greatness as a JET!

Right now I'm hoping that WR Ronalde Moore falls right into our laps for Trevor Lawrence with our Seattle/Jamal pick of the 1st round because the kid reminds me of a mixture of Desean Jackson/Santana Moss and Tyreek Hill (all rolled into one).