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manuvsteal

Tank for Trevor is a Ridiculous Idea

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Sometimes humans can be creatures of habit that just do, and don't think to ask why.  While all of you have made your feelings known, the Jets should tank for Trevor, have any of you actually watched him play? Before you say I'm out of my mind watch the link I attached, and tell me what your feelings are again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dr4rB8oAoo

When Trevor had to play teams with legitimate NFL level talent in Ohio State, I think this is a pretty good barometer of who he will be in the NFL in terms of production, and the decisions he will make.  In this game he threw passes against Jeff Okudah, and Damon Arnette who were 1st round corners, and typical of the type of players he will see on Sundays.  He threw 33 passes, completing 18 and, all but about 7 of them were run pass option plays (RPO) where he had one read.  He completed 54% of his passes and was mostly inaccurate when he had to throw into tight windows, come off his initial read, or move around in the pocket.

In this game he always threw to his first read, and only checked to his second read twice by my count.  Of the passes he completed, the receivers often have 2-3 yards of seperation, and it is exremely rare that he will have that type of window in the NFL.  When he had to throw into tight windows he was inaccurate with the exception of two passes, one of which was a nice pass dropped by his receiver in the end zone, the other was caught. In short, Lawrence is a guy who locks on to one read, throws it and completes because there is so much open space.  When he has to do anything other than set his feet and he has to climb the pocket, throw on the move, or throw with anticipation, there is nothing to suggest he can do it.  However, people still clamor for him as the Jets savior?

Last is his legs.  The dude has wheels, and that is what saved Clemson in the game I linked. However, how many games is a gangly 220 pound quarterback going to run head first lowering his shoulder and absorbing contact?  His main strength in NCAA football is something he won't be able to do in NFL football without getting injured.  Many of you may see Trevor Lawrence as the savior of the NY Jets and the number 1 pick, and you are entitled to your opinion.  If you do think that, I implore you to watch the film, and tell me the guy you see in this video (against good competition), will be successful playing the same style as Clemson has boosted his stock to.  

I'm not saying this guy is Tim Tebow, because Tebow couldn't throw. I do think he's the most overhyped QB coming out of college since Tebow.  Great college QB, suspect NFL prospect. Clemson has fooled you all by putting lipstick on a decent but not great QB.  Prove me wrong.

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Want nothing to do with this kid. Rather have Fields

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3 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

If this is the example of his worst game then he's better than I thought. He makes one really bad decision in the whole game and his line couldn't protect him for 3 seconds. 

A fine performance against a great defence - Had some spectacular plays and pulled out the win coming from behind as the underdog - Generally made all the right reads in the option game, 3 or 4 plays the WR should make. That throw while running to his left with a man in his face was some Mahomes sh*t - Incredible. The disguised QB draw on the winner to Etienne was superb and obviously his running TD was ridiculous - Against a defence stacked with NFL athleticism. 

All prospects have really rough games at some point and this isn't even that - Take a look at Burrow's year in 2018 when he was even older than Lawrence. You're literally holding completions against him that were his first read? Ha because every QB doesn't do that. Agenda. 

Try harder. 

That’s sort of how I saw it as well. The only bad decision I saw was the pass over the middle where he didn’t see the LB drop into coverage.

Fields gets a lot of time to throw. I don’t see a defense on Ohio St schedule that is comparable to LSU, Ohio St, and Alabama from last year’s Clemson schedule. I would like to see Fields against a stout D. 

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You are all missing the point.  The film you are viewing shows you two things.  Trevor Lawrence is good when running RPO's with one read, and no real pass defense.  He is also good running the ball.  My argument is when is he going to have those two scenerios in the NFL?  When will he drop back, throw to his first receiver, and have no defender within 1`0 feet of the man?  When will he be able to run over 260 pound linebackers?  He can't do either of those things.  When you take those out, he is not an accurate quarterback who can do things QB's need to do to succeed.  If you want to have this conversation in a year's time, you will see a player who's been covered up by a system, and talent advantage that you can't duplicate in the pros.  Show me a tight window that he can throw into, or a 10 yard out or in where he throws with accuracy and anticipation.  You can't  That is the point. 

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1 hour ago, manuvsteal said:

You are all missing the point.  The film you are viewing shows you two things.  Trevor Lawrence is good when running RPO's with one read, and no real pass defense.  He is also good running the ball.  My argument is when is he going to have those two scenerios in the NFL?  When will he drop back, throw to his first receiver, and have no defender within 1`0 feet of the man?  When will he be able to run over 260 pound linebackers?  He can't do either of those things.  When you take those out, he is not an accurate quarterback who can do things QB's need to do to succeed.  If you want to have this conversation in a year's time, you will see a player who's been covered up by a system, and talent advantage that you can't duplicate in the pros.  Show me a tight window that he can throw into, or a 10 yard out or in where he throws with accuracy and anticipation.  You can't  That is the point. 

You'll get a lot of sh*t for this, but i agree with you - I don't think he's a consensus 1.01. 

 

The more i watch of Lance and wilson, the less interested i am in drafting Lawrence at 1.01. 

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Been saying this for a minute.  Fields was much better that day despite the 2 picks (arguably not his fault) and the outcome.  The scary game though, was LSU, that was the whoa, pump the brakes game.  It was like space jam or some sh*t, lost his mechanics, balls were fluttering, insanely inaccurate. 

The problem with just focusing on those games though is, he was outstanding the year before in the playoffs.  He was dropping dimes vs. Notre Dame and more so poured it on vs. Bama but still looked great.

I personally dont see a generational talent but idk, there is a lot there to like.  All that said, I think the gap between him and Fields could close considerably by the end of the year.  Fields is dealing at a ridiculous level right now and what I like about him is his game is vertical vs. around the LOS.  And the dude has more TD's than incompletions after 3 games.  Whoa.

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4 hours ago, JiF said:

Been saying this for a minute.  Fields was much better that day despite the 2 picks (arguably not his fault) and the outcome.  The scary game though, was LSU, that was the whoa, pump the brakes game.  It was like space jam or some sh*t, lost his mechanics, balls were fluttering, insanely inaccurate. 

The problem with just focusing on those games though is, he was outstanding the year before in the playoffs.  He was dropping dimes vs. Notre Dame and more so poured it on vs. Bama but still looked great.

I personally dont see a generational talent but idk, there is a lot there to like.  All that said, I think the gap between him and Fields could close considerably by the end of the year.  Fields is dealing at a ridiculous level right now and what I like about him is his game is vertical vs. around the LOS.  And the dude has more TD's than incompletions after 3 games.  Whoa.

Ohio state system made people believe that Haskins was a first rounder, im taking a step back on Fields

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7 hours ago, JiF said:

Been saying this for a minute.  Fields was much better that day despite the 2 picks (arguably not his fault) and the outcome.  The scary game though, was LSU, that was the whoa, pump the brakes game.  It was like space jam or some sh*t, lost his mechanics, balls were fluttering, insanely inaccurate. 

The problem with just focusing on those games though is, he was outstanding the year before in the playoffs.  He was dropping dimes vs. Notre Dame and more so poured it on vs. Bama but still looked great.

I personally dont see a generational talent but idk, there is a lot there to like.  All that said, I think the gap between him and Fields could close considerably by the end of the year.  Fields is dealing at a ridiculous level right now and what I like about him is his game is vertical vs. around the LOS.  And the dude has more TD's than incompletions after 3 games.  Whoa.

No way is Lawerance a generational talent. Especially being that he not the prototype-QB that the game is trending to. If "99 Michael Vick was declaring for the draft, he'd be a generational prospect. Unfortunately he got to the NFL two decades two early.

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3 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Ohio state system made people believe that Haskins was a first rounder, im taking a step back on Fields

Dwayne Haskins couldn't hold a candle to Fields as a High School prospect.  Fields wasn't even an Ohio State recruit.  He was a transfer from Georgia following his freshman season there.

Stop with the Ohio State nonsense when it comes to Fields.  There's no such thing as a QB factory or a program incapable of producing quality pro QB's.  Check out the Cal QB's before and after Aaron Rodgers, or the QB's at Texas Tech prior to Pat Mahomes.  

Evaluate the prospect.  Not the program.  Fields is an elite prospect and will be an excellent pro QB.

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I get to watch a lot of Trevor. Both the games, and the highlights on local news and the ACC channel talk shows. Not knocking his talent, the kid is obviously good. He just doesn't seem like a fit for NY, and the Jets. He's an ultra religious country boy, and he probably would rather go to Jacksonville. If I grew up like him, I would too. We're a different world than anything he knows.

Fields, on the other hand, intrigues me. Granted I haven't seen as much of him as Trevor, but I love his style of play. I'm one of those who think it's where the league is going. I also think drafting him opens up all kinds of possibilities as far as the new HC. We could choose from the best and brightest running these schemes in the college ranks. 

It would take a lot of guts for Douglas to take Fields with the first pick, but I'd love to see it. It would convince me he actually did learn something at Philly and Baltimore under Ozzie... be bold, and go for it. Even if the kid didn't pan out, I'd never knock Sleepy Joe for taking the chance.

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51 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Dwayne Haskins couldn't hold a candle to Fields as a High School prospect.  Fields wasn't even an Ohio State recruit.  He was a transfer from Georgia following his freshman season there.

Stop with the Ohio State nonsense when it comes to Fields.  There's no such thing as a QB factory or a program incapable of producing quality pro QB's.  Check out the Cal QB's before and after Aaron Rodgers, or the QB's at Texas Tech prior to Pat Mahomes.  

Evaluate the prospect.  Not the program.  Fields is an elite prospect and will be an excellent pro QB.

Im not saying Fields is a bad prospect in fact he is number 2 on my big board, Im just a little skeptical about the inflated numbers Ohio state qbs tend to put. Lets see what he can do in the playoffs for a second time

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58 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Dwayne Haskins couldn't hold a candle to Fields as a High School prospect.  Fields wasn't even an Ohio State recruit.  He was a transfer from Georgia following his freshman season there.

Stop with the Ohio State nonsense when it comes to Fields.  There's no such thing as a QB factory or a program incapable of producing quality pro QB's.  Check out the Cal QB's before and after Aaron Rodgers, or the QB's at Texas Tech prior to Pat Mahomes.  

Evaluate the prospect.  Not the program.  Fields is an elite prospect and will be an excellent pro QB.

Haskins numbers were pretty obviously inflated due to the OSU scheme. I’m not sure if that’s the case with Fields as well as I haven’t yet dove into any of his film aside from the Clemson game last year, which didn’t impress me much at all to be honest (arm strength was meh, decision making was a big yikes, but still just one game). That said, the numbers he’s putting up so far this year are impossible to ignore regardless of scheme and I’ve heard a lot of talk that he’s improved leaps and bounds even from last season. Hoping the hype is for real.

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18 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Im not saying Fields is a bad prospect in fact he is number 2 on my big board, Im just a little skeptical about the inflated numbers Ohio state qbs tend to put. Lets see what he can do in the playoffs for a second time

I want Fields here, but I get the concern about Buckeye QBs. It's not just Haskins either...

come to think of it, let me go one better. How many good QBs have come out of the Big 10 in recent years? (I know someone is going to pop in here naming a bunch, but I can't think of any right now, LOL)

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1 hour ago, 14 in Green said:

I want Fields here, but I get the concern about Buckeye QBs. It's not just Haskins either...

come to think of it, let me go one better. How many good QBs have come out of the Big 10 in recent years? (I know someone is going to pop in here naming a bunch, but I can't think of any right now, LOL)

Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins are the only ones worth a damn I can think of this decade, and neither was a first round pick. Brees and Brady way before them, again neither being a first round pick. In fact before Haskins, Kerry Collins was the last Big 10 QB selected in the first round. Safe to say Fields is the most highly touted QB entering the draft from the conference in the last two and half decades.

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21 hours ago, manuvsteal said:

You are all missing the point.  The film you are viewing shows you two things.  Trevor Lawrence is good when running RPO's with one read, and no real pass defense.  He is also good running the ball.  My argument is when is he going to have those two scenerios in the NFL?  When will he drop back, throw to his first receiver, and have no defender within 1`0 feet of the man?  When will he be able to run over 260 pound linebackers?  He can't do either of those things.  When you take those out, he is not an accurate quarterback who can do things QB's need to do to succeed.  If you want to have this conversation in a year's time, you will see a player who's been covered up by a system, and talent advantage that you can't duplicate in the pros.  Show me a tight window that he can throw into, or a 10 yard out or in where he throws with accuracy and anticipation.  You can't  That is the point. 

First off, Im not 100% sold on Trevor, but wanted to address a couple of your points. 

If you are looking for NFL throws, look at what hes done this year - he can reach every level on the field with velocity and accuracy, thats really not an issue.

But I think your point about the RPO's has more to do with how important a HC/OC is then it is about Trevor the player.  Any QB coming into the league needs a HC/OC who can design and call plays to help his QB and supporting cast.  Clemson runs RPO's - thats their offense (if they ran something different with Deshaun Id love to know).  The question is how would Trevor do in the league running some play action and/or west coast concepts and I think that projection for him is very good.  

My issue is whether he is a fit here given his background.  He definitely seems like a true southerner who would fit better in a place like jacksonville.  If that is the case and JD likes Fields just as much, Id love to see a swap and pick up another first.  Moving  back one spot could get us 2, 22, and 44 which could result in:

2. Fields

22. Davonta Smith  WR

26. Patrick Jones  Edge

33. Najee Harris RB

44. Asante Samuel 

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14 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Ohio state system made people believe that Haskins was a first rounder, im taking a step back on Fields

Meh, we can play the system game and QB's who have failed coming out, all day long.  Look at Mayfield vs. Murray.  Would have been silly to pass on Murray just because Mayfield sucks.  Should teams have avoided Watson and now Lawrence because Taj Boyd sucked? 

That said, Haskins was the classic do not draft QB.  Sophomore with only 1 year of production, surrounded by all world talent.  I dont think this OSU team is nearly as stacked as that one.  He had, JK Dobbins, Paris Campbell, KJ Hill, Terry Mcluarin and Chris Olave as true freshman.  Urban still there, etc.  Just a different situation than Fields. and fwiw, I'm not sure the book is closed on Haskins.  He's got talent, he just has maturity issues which is what you get taking a sophomore with 1 year of experience. 

Fields will now have 2 absolutely stellar years under his belt, 1 with a personnel change over that clearly hasnt bothered him and he was the #2 overall prospect in the country who went Georgia first.   It's not an apples to apples comparison.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Dwayne Haskins couldn't hold a candle to Fields as a High School prospect.  Fields wasn't even an Ohio State recruit.  He was a transfer from Georgia following his freshman season there.

Stop with the Ohio State nonsense when it comes to Fields.  There's no such thing as a QB factory or a program incapable of producing quality pro QB's.  Check out the Cal QB's before and after Aaron Rodgers, or the QB's at Texas Tech prior to Pat Mahomes.  

Evaluate the prospect.  Not the program.  Fields is an elite prospect and will be an excellent pro QB.

oh derpina.. it is a factor

I prefer Fields to Lawrence, strongly in fact, but to pretend this isn't something to consider is potentially dumber than using it to eliminate him completely

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17 minutes ago, CTM said:

oh derpina.. it is a factor

I prefer Fields to Lawrence, strongly in fact, but to pretend this isn't something to consider is potentially dumber than using it to eliminate him completely

People are operating under an outdated perspective when evaluating Ohio State QB's.  Urban Meyer is no longer the coach.  Yes, Ryan Day coached under Meyer, but he runs a visibly different system than Meyer did.  And, again, Fields was a Georgia recruit who transferred to OSU.  He's not the same kind or caliber of QB that Ohio State usually recruits.  It really isn't a factor at all when it comes to Fields.  

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25 minutes ago, CTM said:

oh derpina.. it is a factor

I prefer Fields to Lawrence, strongly in fact, but to pretend this isn't something to consider is potentially dumber than using it to eliminate him completely

It's really not.

Mayfield sucks, Murrary is awesome.

Taj Boyd sucked, Watson is awesome.

Davis Webb sucked, Mahomes is awesome

And so and so on and so on...

 

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

 

Davis Webb sucked, Mahomes is awesome

 

Yep. If there was ever a "QBs from this school produce in college and suck in the pros" school it was Texas Tech's Air Raid.

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12 hours ago, JiF said:

It's really not.

Mayfield sucks, Murrary is awesome.

Taj Boyd sucked, Watson is awesome.

Davis Webb sucked, Mahomes is awesome

And so and so on and so on...

 

I said it's not determining but it's a factor. it's why some folks out of these programs have monster stats and then washout. I mean this is made very clear right in your post. If Mayfield shrimp ran a pedestrian offense does he go #1? NO.  Does Mayfields failure dictate that Murray would fail. Also no.

Not sure why this is being pitched as all or nothing situation. It's something you have to consider for both of these QB's

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One of the thoughts I've had recently is why do the Jets need to sell off assets and try to make a decision?  For example, in 2004 the Chargers had the exact same decision as the Jets have now.  The Chargers kept Drew Brees, drafted Philip Rivers, and started Philip Rivers a year later.  

In my mind, trading Sam Darnold for a 2nd round pick is not worth the draft capital when you consider the Jets history over the last 20 years of 2nd round picks that have been drafted.  It makes more sense if the Jets have the 1st pick to trade down a slot, and pick up an extra 2nd rounder.  Even if the Jets select Justin Fields at pick 2, they could still start Sam Darnold, and give Fields the year or half year to get acclimated.  The extra 2nd round pick it would take to trade down from pick 1 to pick 2 would net the Jets the same result as if they'd traded Darnold.

This has multiple positive outcomes in my mind.  If the team is still not good next season, it would be Darnold and not Justin Fields to not have to worry about messing him up psychologically and/or damaging him.  It prevents the Jets fans, media, and everyone else from the stigma of "here we go again" messing up another young QB. Darnold plays anywhere from up to trade deadline next year, or to end of season. If he proves he's bad with a better supporting cast, the Jets still have a few time points to trade him off.

Now lets say the Jets play well next season.  If the Jets are good and Darnold plays well, or even at an all-pro level, it gives the Jets two great QB's and the Chargers Drew Brees dilemma.  Do we keep him or do we trade him at the end of year?  It gives the Jets one additional year to evaluate Darnold, and it costs literally nothing whether they are a good or bad team next season.  If Darnold were a top 5 QB I'd keep him and extend a contract. If Darnold is anywhere around 10th rated to middle of the pack or worse, I'd trade him. 

We've seen the positive impact sitting even a few games your rookie year had on Tua, Justin Herbert, Desean Watson and how that helps to acclimate young QB's learning the playbook, offense, and speed of the NFL. If the goal is to put your young QB in the best position possible, I think the answer is to keep Darnold and draft a young QB and evaluate both next season. I'd let go of Joe Flacco, and take the training wheels off.  The Jets would then have two throws at the dartboard next year in terms of leadership and evaluating the QB of the present/future. 

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12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

People are operating under an outdated perspective when evaluating Ohio State QB's

You mean like how I know you are married yet still think of you as the virgin

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12 hours ago, JiF said:

It's really not.

Mayfield sucks, Murrary is awesome.

Taj Boyd sucked, Watson is awesome.

Davis Webb sucked, Mahomes is awesome

And so and so on and so on...

 

 

12 hours ago, CTM said:

I said it's not determining but it's a factor. it's why some folks out of these programs have monster stats and then washout. I mean this is made very clear right in your post. If Mayfield shrimp ran a pedestrian offense does he go #1? NO.  Does Mayfields failure dictate that Murray would fail. Also no.

Not sure why this is being pitched as all or nothing situation. It's something you have to consider for both of these QB's

Yo9u both are dumb mutherfukkers.  The Johnson's cannot tell the difference.  They suck and they've been pulling the strings for 20_+ years.  

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2 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

 

Yo9u both are dumb mutherfukkers.  The Johnson's cannot tell the difference.  They suck and they've been pulling the strings for 20_+ years.  

Lol. Hard to argue with any of this really 

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On 11/12/2020 at 8:18 AM, BCJet said:

First off, Im not 100% sold on Trevor, but wanted to address a couple of your points. 

If you are looking for NFL throws, look at what hes done this year - he can reach every level on the field with velocity and accuracy, thats really not an issue.

But I think your point about the RPO's has more to do with how important a HC/OC is then it is about Trevor the player.  Any QB coming into the league needs a HC/OC who can design and call plays to help his QB and supporting cast.  Clemson runs RPO's - thats their offense (if they ran something different with Deshaun Id love to know).  The question is how would Trevor do in the league running some play action and/or west coast concepts and I think that projection for him is very good.  

My issue is whether he is a fit here given his background.  He definitely seems like a true southerner who would fit better in a place like jacksonville.  If that is the case and JD likes Fields just as much, Id love to see a swap and pick up another first.  Moving  back one spot could get us 2, 22, and 44 which could result in:

2. Fields

22. Davonta Smith  WR

26. Patrick Jones  Edge

33. Najee Harris RB

44. Asante Samuel 

I don’t follow college ball so I can’t say much beyond what I read here.  One thing you said got me thinking.  You mentioned Lawrence was in a RPO type offense and it seemed to be held against him.  Well, joe willie was a wishbone QBs. That didn’t seem to stop him from being a pretty darn QB.

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23 hours ago, manuvsteal said:

One of the thoughts I've had recently is why do the Jets need to sell off assets and try to make a decision?  For example, in 2004 the Chargers had the exact same decision as the Jets have now.  The Chargers kept Drew Brees, drafted Philip Rivers, and started Philip Rivers a year later.  

In my mind, trading Sam Darnold for a 2nd round pick is not worth the draft capital when you consider the Jets history over the last 20 years of 2nd round picks that have been drafted.  It makes more sense if the Jets have the 1st pick to trade down a slot, and pick up an extra 2nd rounder.  Even if the Jets select Justin Fields at pick 2, they could still start Sam Darnold, and give Fields the year or half year to get acclimated.  The extra 2nd round pick it would take to trade down from pick 1 to pick 2 would net the Jets the same result as if they'd traded Darnold.

This has multiple positive outcomes in my mind.  If the team is still not good next season, it would be Darnold and not Justin Fields to not have to worry about messing him up psychologically and/or damaging him.  It prevents the Jets fans, media, and everyone else from the stigma of "here we go again" messing up another young QB. Darnold plays anywhere from up to trade deadline next year, or to end of season. If he proves he's bad with a better supporting cast, the Jets still have a few time points to trade him off.

Now lets say the Jets play well next season.  If the Jets are good and Darnold plays well, or even at an all-pro level, it gives the Jets two great QB's and the Chargers Drew Brees dilemma.  Do we keep him or do we trade him at the end of year?  It gives the Jets one additional year to evaluate Darnold, and it costs literally nothing whether they are a good or bad team next season.  If Darnold were a top 5 QB I'd keep him and extend a contract. If Darnold is anywhere around 10th rated to middle of the pack or worse, I'd trade him. 

We've seen the positive impact sitting even a few games your rookie year had on Tua, Justin Herbert, Desean Watson and how that helps to acclimate young QB's learning the playbook, offense, and speed of the NFL. If the goal is to put your young QB in the best position possible, I think the answer is to keep Darnold and draft a young QB and evaluate both next season. I'd let go of Joe Flacco, and take the training wheels off.  The Jets would then have two throws at the dartboard next year in terms of leadership and evaluating the QB of the present/future. 

I don’t think JD takes anything less than a #1 pick for Darnold. 

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Trevor against Ohio State wasn't his best individual performance but he showed me something during game, that Sam Darnold has never showed me; heart and fight. 

And down 16 points a kid Lawrence began to do what was needed to be done in order to comeback and win, which was play his best football towards the end of the 2nd Q along with coming up clutch during the 2nd half. 

Nobody wants to talk about Justin Fields tossing two INTs or his 14 rushing attempts for a whopping 13 yards @ less than 1 yard per carry while blowing their lead once finally playing a good NCAA Defense in Clemson? 

Trevor Lawrence under duress showed nothing but heart and fight against Ohio State and 35-1 doesn't lie (compared to 1-1 without him). 

 

 

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On 11/11/2020 at 5:00 PM, manuvsteal said:

You are all missing the point.  The film you are viewing shows you two things.  Trevor Lawrence is good when running RPO's with one read, and no real pass defense.  He is also good running the ball.  My argument is when is he going to have those two scenerios in the NFL?  When will he drop back, throw to his first receiver, and have no defender within 1`0 feet of the man?  When will he be able to run over 260 pound linebackers?  He can't do either of those things.  When you take those out, he is not an accurate quarterback who can do things QB's need to do to succeed.  If you want to have this conversation in a year's time, you will see a player who's been covered up by a system, and talent advantage that you can't duplicate in the pros.  Show me a tight window that he can throw into, or a 10 yard out or in where he throws with accuracy and anticipation.  You can't  That is the point. 

They run RPOs in the nfl all the time now dude 

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On 11/14/2020 at 3:40 AM, Defense Wins Championships said:

Trevor against Ohio State wasn't his best individual performance but he showed me something during game, that Sam Darnold has never showed me; heart and fight. 

And down 16 points a kid Lawrence began to do what was needed to be done in order to comeback and win, which was play his best football towards the end of the 2nd Q along with coming up clutch during the 2nd half. 

Nobody wants to talk about Justin Fields tossing two INTs or his 14 rushing attempts for a whopping 13 yards @ less than 1 yard per carry while blowing their lead once finally playing a good NCAA Defense in Clemson? 

Trevor Lawrence under duress showed nothing but heart and fight against Ohio State and 35-1 doesn't lie (compared to 1-1 without him). 

 

 

Bad games happen to every college Qb.  I remember people killing Peyton Manning in 1998 because he never won any big games at Tennessee 

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On 11/10/2020 at 9:04 PM, manuvsteal said:

Sometimes humans can be creatures of habit that just do, and don't think to ask why.  While all of you have made your feelings known, the Jets should tank for Trevor, have any of you actually watched him play? Before you say I'm out of my mind watch the link I attached, and tell me what your feelings are again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dr4rB8oAoo

When Trevor had to play teams with legitimate NFL level talent in Ohio State, I think this is a pretty good barometer of who he will be in the NFL in terms of production, and the decisions he will make.  In this game he threw passes against Jeff Okudah, and Damon Arnette who were 1st round corners, and typical of the type of players he will see on Sundays.  He threw 33 passes, completing 18 and, all but about 7 of them were run pass option plays (RPO) where he had one read.  He completed 54% of his passes and was mostly inaccurate when he had to throw into tight windows, come off his initial read, or move around in the pocket.

In this game he always threw to his first read, and only checked to his second read twice by my count.  Of the passes he completed, the receivers often have 2-3 yards of seperation, and it is exremely rare that he will have that type of window in the NFL.  When he had to throw into tight windows he was inaccurate with the exception of two passes, one of which was a nice pass dropped by his receiver in the end zone, the other was caught. In short, Lawrence is a guy who locks on to one read, throws it and completes because there is so much open space.  When he has to do anything other than set his feet and he has to climb the pocket, throw on the move, or throw with anticipation, there is nothing to suggest he can do it.  However, people still clamor for him as the Jets savior?

Last is his legs.  The dude has wheels, and that is what saved Clemson in the game I linked. However, how many games is a gangly 220 pound quarterback going to run head first lowering his shoulder and absorbing contact?  His main strength in NCAA football is something he won't be able to do in NFL football without getting injured.  Many of you may see Trevor Lawrence as the savior of the NY Jets and the number 1 pick, and you are entitled to your opinion.  If you do think that, I implore you to watch the film, and tell me the guy you see in this video (against good competition), will be successful playing the same style as Clemson has boosted his stock to.  

I'm not saying this guy is Tim Tebow, because Tebow couldn't throw. I do think he's the most overhyped QB coming out of college since Tebow.  Great college QB, suspect NFL prospect. Clemson has fooled you all by putting lipstick on a decent but not great QB.  Prove me wrong.

This game makes it clear Lawrence is the guy we should target. He was under intense pressure the entire game his receivers were blanketed most if not all of the time and he took a pounding, yet still made the tough plays it took to win. That's what you want in a QB coming out of college. How you think you know what his first read was is totally wrong you don't have a playbook . When under that much pressure you have to get the ball out and even then I saw him look from one side of the field to the other on many plays. Its seems he was getting the ball out quick with a so called single read because that's what it took to have any chance at all. Good call by the coach  because in the end you do what you have to do to win the game. He made great throws at the end to win the game and that's the bottom line. 

What I came away from this game thinking is this kid is tough can take huge hits and still stand in the pocket and make big throws.

Under tremendous pressure he did not turn over the football, which could have (in such a close game) cost his team the win.

Saying he locks on to one read is pure nonsense. You play to what's in front of you and adjust to the game.

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On 11/13/2020 at 8:40 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

Trevor against Ohio State wasn't his best individual performance but he showed me something during game, that Sam Darnold has never showed me; heart and fight. 

And down 16 points a kid Lawrence began to do what was needed to be done in order to comeback and win, which was play his best football towards the end of the 2nd Q along with coming up clutch during the 2nd half. 

Nobody wants to talk about Justin Fields tossing two INTs or his 14 rushing attempts for a whopping 13 yards @ less than 1 yard per carry while blowing their lead once finally playing a good NCAA Defense in Clemson? 

Trevor Lawrence under duress showed nothing but heart and fight against Ohio State and 35-1 doesn't lie (compared to 1-1 without him). 

 

 

This

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5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

This game makes it clear Lawrence is the guy we should target. He was under intense pressure the entire game his receivers were blanketed most if not all of the time and he took a pounding, yet still made the tough plays it took to win. That's what you want in a QB coming out of college. How you think you know what his first read was is totally wrong you don't have a playbook . When under that much pressure you have to get the ball out and even then I saw him look from one side of the field to the other on many plays. Its seems he was getting the ball out quick with a so called single read because that's what it took to have any chance at all. Good call by the coach  because in the end you do what you have to do to win the game. He made great throws at the end to win the game and that's the bottom line. 

What I came away from this game thinking is this kid is tough can take huge hits and still stand in the pocket and make big throws.

Under tremendous pressure he did not turn over the football, which could have (in such a close game) cost his team the win.

Saying he locks on to one read is pure nonsense. You play to what's in front of you and adjust to the game.

I worry about his throwing motion. He has a big step in his throw similar to Mark Sanchez. The harder he throws the more space he needs to set his feet and drive the ball. 

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