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Lawrence vs Fields? College fans opinion please.


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53 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Lawrence over Fields but neither one of them is generational talents.  They fit in with some of the good young QBs from the last few years but they are certainly not a level higher than them at all.

This is blatantly wrong

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I go with Fields over Lawrence.  I don't think he runs as well as Lawrence but I feel he's slightly to moderately better than Lawrence when the pocket breaks down. I 've seen Lawrence look pedestrian when LSU pressured him in the NCG last year. On the flipside I've seen Fields flourish when pressured heavily .  Both have the benefits of playing with virtual college all star teams but I feel Fields has faced tougher competition. 

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5 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Why is it wrong. Other than the talking heads and pundits extolling this ad nauseum what makes either a generational talent over guys like Mahomes , Watson, Jackson etc...

Because it just is?  

And I like Fields. But being "pedestrian" vs LSU while ignoring the comeback win vs Fields to get to that game really doesnt sway me.  He lost to a charmed team, a better team. 

Lawrence has been the top QB prospect since HS and pundits arent just extolling his talents ad nauseam, they repeating what's pretty obvious to almost all of them?

Past QBs have nothing to do with it anymore than some being right about the top rated QBs in the past.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Because it just is?  

And I like Fields. But being "pedestrian" vs LSU while ignoring the comeback win vs Fields really doesnt sway me? 

Lawrence has been the top QB prospect since HS and pundits arent just extolling his talents ad nauseam, they repeating what's pretty obvious to almost all of them?

Past QBs have nothing to do with it anymore than some being right about the top rated QBs in the past.

That as an ACC QB he's feasted on one of the weaker Power 5 schedules over his college career all while having by far the most talent in the conference surrounding him. If he played in the SEC or BIG 10 I might look at him a little differently , I think he's very good but I'm skeptical he's the can't miss prospect all are labeling him to be. 

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Lawrence - A rich man's Josh Allen. I think his accuracy is just fine, the bigger problem with Lawrence (prior to this year) was that he had a tendency to lock onto and stare down his 1st read. This year, Lawrence has taken his game to another level and I see him progressing through reads faster. Also, Lawrence is dissecting the defense (and doing a good job of it) prior to the snap this year more often than he did in the past.

Fields - I think Dak Prescott is a good comp for Fields. Good prospect, but has some arm strength limitations.

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31 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

That as an ACC QB he's feasted on one of the weaker Power 5 schedules over his college career all while having by far the most talent in the conference surrounding him. If he played in the SEC or BIG 10 I might look at him a little differently , I think he's very good but I'm skeptical he's the can't miss prospect all are labeling him to be. 

When he was in HS?

When he won the Championship beating Alabama?

Hes lost one game, ONE in three seasons, they all didnt come feasting on the ACC.  

Think Fields has had pretty much the same advantages as TL playing for a program like OS.  Look at Haskins who had better numbers before moving onto the NFL.  

 

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4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not to be a joewilly12 or anything, but do people not visit the Draft forum, ever?  There's good stuff in there folks, including a lengthy thread discussing the QB's from the perspective of avid college fans/JN NFL draft gurus.  Check it out.  

What’s that?

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39 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

This is blatantly wrong

Enlighten me.

Is Fields going to be WAY better than Kyler murray?

Is Lawrence going to be way better than patirck mahommes?

Last years college semi final:

One guy threw for 493 yards and 7 tds

Another guy threw for 253 yards and 2 tds

Another guy threw for 320 yards with a td and to ints

College final game:

One guy threw for 463 yards and 5 tds

the other guy threw for 234 yards (under 50% completion) and no tds

Joe burrow totally owned Lawrecne in every way.

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Just now, Beerfish said:

Enlighten me.

Is Fields going to be WAY better than Kyler murray?

Is Lawrence going to be way better than patirck mahommes?

Last years college semi final:

One guy threw for 493 yards and 7 tds

Another guy threw for 253 yards and 2 tds

Another guy threw for 320 yards with a td and to ints

College final game:

One guy threw for 463 yards and 5 tds

the other guy threw for 234 yards (under 50% completion) and no tds

Joe burrow totally owned Lawrecne in every way.

One game?  The guys lost one game in 3 seasons, to a team better than his.  

You need to come up with real reasons.

Hey I know, give me Burrow vs Lawrence stats for two years.

And your Mahomes reference drive this home.  Mahomes coming out doesnt compare to either.  

Jackson won the MVP while losing a playoff game, looking like he was lost.  Mahomes lost in his 2nd season and won the MVP.

 

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5 hours ago, rbstern said:

In my opinion, both will be successful NFL QBs.   Slight edge to Lawrence, but I believe you can build a successful team around either.

The requisites for the Jets to make either of those guys an NFL winner is:  1) Good o-line (currently a work in progress), 2) Receiving talent (on the upswing), and 3) solid coaching (not at all there yet).

Trevor would look good in a Mach 5

 

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8 hours ago, Jetster said:

It seems every year QBs get ranked & someone who is ignored becomes better than the guy all of the media says is #1. We took Darnold & so far he's looked slightly better than Rosen, and Buffalo & the Ravens waiting for the draft to come to them got the better QB.

Buffalo and Baltimore didn't exactly wait for the draft to come to them.  Those were both trade ups.  The Chiefs and Texans traded up for Mahomes and Watson.   Rosen, Trubisky, Goff, Wentz and Paxton Lynch were all taken by teams that didn't "earn" that draft slot.  As far as I can recall, except for the Browns at #1 overall overall with Mayfield, every QB taken in the first round between 2016 and 2018 was selected in a pick received in a trade up. 

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I can't really speak too much about Justin Fields only because as an FSU fan I'm ACC crazed and really don't follow too much Ohio State Football. 

I'm absolutely crazed over Trevor Lawrence and Dan Marino (only on a college level) was a little before my time but out of the likes of...

Donovan McNabb, Mike Vick, Philip Rivers, Jameis Winston, Deshaun Watson and Lamar Jackson etc; Trevor Lawrence is by far the greatest ACC QB I've ever witnessed and experienced within my Conference. 

Trevor Lawrence is the definition of a Generational QB Prospect. That term is thrown out there often, but TL really is the definition of one because...

A.) He was rated as the #1 QB within the entire Country coming out of High School (as was Peyton Manning) and is still to this day the highest rated H.S QB recruit All-time behind only Peyton Manning. 

B.) He's lived up to his H.S hype coming into college and 3 years later is still ranked #1 as an NFL prospect. The #1 prospect @ QB heading into the NFL draft. Undisputed too. 

C.) Became the first and only true Freshman dating back to 1985 to win an NCAA National Championship (beating ALABAMA). 

D.) Has been to two National Championship Games within his first two years and has an overall record of 35-1 within an ACC Power Conference (and that's unheard of) and chances are he'll have 3 National Championship Game appearances within his only 3 years of play by the time 2020 is in the history books. 35-1 people that's .972%. 

E.) TL is the definition of a Generational QB prospect as he's the most polished and the most focused ACC QB I've ever laid eyes on, he's dominated my conference like I've never witnessed before and he's got the greatest touch on a football that I've ever saw and his deep ball as a down field attacking passer is the most beautiful deep ball I've ever seen. 

I've never once rooted for a Jets loss for draft positioning. Ever. I've never wanted to see my team tank for draft position... Until Trevor Lawrence; he's that good. Maybe like weeks 16-17 within the past, but never as early as week 3. Trevor Lawrence has impressed me so much that I just rooted for N.E to beat our Jets; getting him means that much to me. 

PS: Trevor Lawrence was in MIDDLE SCHOOL and practicing with his soon to be High Schools Varsity Football Team. Trevor's parents had him a paid professional QB coach in Middle School all while Sam Darnold was a converted HS LINEBACKER and was learning how to tackle @ Trevor's middle school age; they are not the same. They are different. 

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Highest passer ratings on throws 20+ yards downfield:
 
1. Justin Fields - 154.4
2. Kyle Trask - 146.8
3. Zach Wilson - 141.0
4. Feleipe Franks - 137.9
ratings on throws 20+ yards downfield: 1. Justin Fields - 154.4 2. Kyle Trask - 146.8 3. Zach Wilson - 141.0 4. Feleipe Franks - 137.9
 
Highest passer ratings on throws 20+ yards downfield: 1. Justin Fields - 154.4 2. Kyle Trask - 146.8 3. Zach Wilson - 141.0 4. Feleipe Franks - 137.9
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5 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:
Highest passer ratings on throws 20+ yards downfield:
 
1. Justin Fields - 154.4
2. Kyle Trask - 146.8
3. Zach Wilson - 141.0
4. Feleipe Franks - 137.9
ratings on throws 20+ yards downfield: 1. Justin Fields - 154.4 2. Kyle Trask - 146.8 3. Zach Wilson - 141.0 4. Feleipe Franks - 137.9
 
Highest passer ratings on throws 20+ yards downfield: 1. Justin Fields - 154.4 2. Kyle Trask - 146.8 3. Zach Wilson - 141.0 4. Feleipe Franks - 137.9

To be fair he's played against absolutely horrible defenses throughout his first 3 games. 

I was less than impressed with Fields vs. Clemson in the playoffs last year once finally playing against a really good Clemson defense. He went 30/46 with only 1 TD and 2 INTs and couldn't run @ all with 14 rushes for only 13 yards (less than 1 yard per run attempt). 

 

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Look...if 'generational' means the best of his generation, than the answer is neither of these guys because Mahomes is already that.  Lock, stock and barrel.  Can Lawrence or Fields turn out to be just as good as Mahomes?  Hard to fathom but possible except for the fact that neither will land in nearly as good a spot as Mahomes did with KC.  

And let's not include Lamar Jackson or Watson in the discussion because both of those guys have been dragged back to the land of 'good' but not 'great'.  I certainly hope that whichever guy we draft turns out better than both those guys.  I look at is as I want something in the Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Brees category.  

So let's just ask which one will thrive better here.  Not great talent around them in year 1.  No idea who the HC will be.  It's a crap shoot.  I think if we draft 1st, we take TL.  If 2nd we take Fields.  No crying either way.  Just do NOT win 2 games and somehow finish with the 3rd pick.  

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What i see:

TL - More zip, good wheels

TL - been doing it longer

JF - more wheels, less zip

Both can be great. Comes down to what is between the ears... something NOONE here can or will know about until we draft one of these kids and put them to the test.

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7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not to be a joewilly12 or anything, but do people not visit the Draft forum, ever?  There's good stuff in there folks, including a lengthy thread discussing the QB's from the perspective of avid college fans/JN NFL draft gurus.  Check it out.  

Keep your shirt on, jo.. oh. Hey, 80. Hows it going?

 

Very Funny Reaction GIF

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51 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Look...if 'generational' means the best of his generation, than the answer is neither of these guys because Mahomes is already that.  Lock, stock and barrel.  Can Lawrence or Fields turn out to be just as good as Mahomes?  Hard to fathom but possible except for the fact that neither will land in nearly as good a spot as Mahomes did with KC.  

And let's not include Lamar Jackson or Watson in the discussion because both of those guys have been dragged back to the land of 'good' but not 'great'.  I certainly hope that whichever guy we draft turns out better than both those guys.  I look at is as I want something in the Mahomes, Rodgers, Wilson, Brady, Brees category.  

So let's just ask which one will thrive better here.  Not great talent around them in year 1.  No idea who the HC will be.  It's a crap shoot.  I think if we draft 1st, we take TL.  If 2nd we take Fields.  No crying either way.  Just do NOT win 2 games and somehow finish with the 3rd pick.  

Trevor Lawrence is a much better prospect coming out of college than was Patrick Mahomes; and just because Mahomes was drafted into an already juggernaut K.C offense led by Andy Reid along with the likes of Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins and and Travis Kelce already in place... Doesn't mean he's pound for pound a better QB talent than Trevor Lawrence, because he's not.

__________________

Patrick Mahomes:

Record: 13-19 (.406%). 

0 National Championship Game Appearances. 

857/1349 (63.5%). 

11,252 passing yards. 

8.3 yards per pass attempt. 

93 TD's/29 INT's.

3.20 TD-to-INT Ratio. 

308 rushes for 845 rushing yards and 22 rushing TD's off an average of 2.7 yards per carry. 

QB Rating: 152.0. 

Vs. 

Trevor Lawrence: 

Record: 35-1 (.972%). 

2 National Championship Game appearances. 

662/995 (66.5%). 

8,778 passing yards. 

8.8 yards per pass attempt. 

83 TD's/14 INT's. 

5.9 TD-to-INT Ratio. 

192 rushes for 811 rushing yards and 14 rushing TD's off an average of 4.2 yards per carry. 

QB Rating: 165.4.

__________________

Trevor Lawrence was rated as the #1 player within the Country coming out of High School as a 5 star recruit.

compared to...

Patrick Mahomes who was rated as the 398th rated player within the Country coming out as a 3 star recruit. 

(and Mahomes never once had to play under the National/Media spotlight that Trevor Lawrence has had to overcome and play throughout dating back to even BEFORE H.S). 

I'm sorry but Patrick Mahomes being drafted by an already juggernaut K.C offense doesn't change the fact that Trevor Lawrence is the definition of a Generation QB prospect coming out who was A.) Rated as the #1 ranked H.S QB/Player coming out and B.) Still ranked as the #1 rated NCAA QB/Player coming out and C.) (something only both John Elway and Peyton Manning can say). 

Yes. Patrick Mahomes is great and he's been awesome in the NFL but.. 

Only John Elway and Peyton Manning were ever ranked and rated #1 overall as both HS and NCAA prospects who ended up getting drafted #1 overall;

Which is the reason why Trevor Lawrence is considered as the definition of Generational (as was Elway/Manning) because #1 rated kids like Elway/Manning/Lawrence who grew up under the National Media spotlight don't come along all that often (not even Andrew Luck was rated #1 coming out of HS, he was rated 42nd as a 4 star recruit). 

If you put a gun to my head and made me decide which QB I'd take for the Jets (not KC lol but for our Jets) I'm taking Trevor Lawrence over Patrick Mahomes (because Trevor grew up thriving under the national spotlight against media pressure, while Mahomes never had to). 

Trevor Lawrence is literally built for the spotlight and NY media pressure; it's in his DNA. 

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If you put a gun to my head and made me decide which QB I'd take for the Jets (not KC lol but for our Jets) I'm taking Trevor Lawrence over Patrick Mahomes (because Trevor grew up thriving under the national spotlight against media pressure, while Mahomes never had to).

This is insane.  The 'spotlight of NY' is massively overrated.  Who cares?

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37 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

If you put a gun to my head and made me decide which QB I'd take for the Jets (not KC lol but for our Jets) I'm taking Trevor Lawrence over Patrick Mahomes (because Trevor grew up thriving under the national spotlight against media pressure, while Mahomes never had to).

This is insane.  The 'spotlight of NY' is massively overrated.  Who cares?

I don’t like his “girly hair” Hard pass!

happy he man GIF

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GTFO of here with that comparing Joe Burrow to Trevor Lawrence during their National Championship Game horse crap. 

Joe Burrow during that National Championship Game last year was a 5th year player compared to Lawrence as only a true Sophomore. 

Trevor Lawrence is 35-1 overall and lost his only game (ever) to a 5th year Burrow who just so happened to put up the greatest NCAA single season of All-Time (after 5 years of NCAA development); that's how great Lawrence has truly been. 

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1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

If you put a gun to my head and made me decide which QB I'd take for the Jets (not KC lol but for our Jets) I'm taking Trevor Lawrence over Patrick Mahomes (because Trevor grew up thriving under the national spotlight against media pressure, while Mahomes never had to).

This is insane.  The 'spotlight of NY' is massively overrated.  Who cares?

But the National pressure and spot light of being 1.) the Country's #1 HS prospect before 2.) becoming the Nation's #1 NCAA prospect before 3.) going #1 overall into the NFL isn't,.

And only two QBs have ever lived throughout all 3 of those scenarios, John Elway (1, 1 & 1) and Peyton Manning (1, 1 and 1); up until Trevor Lawrence (he'll become the 3rd to ever go 1, 1 & 1).

He's built for this. 

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5 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Trevor Lawrence is a much better prospect coming out of college than was Patrick Mahomes; and just because Mahomes was drafted into an already juggernaut K.C offense led by Andy Reid along with the likes of Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins and and Travis Kelce already in place... Doesn't mean he's pound for pound a better QB talent than Trevor Lawrence, because he's not.

__________________

Patrick Mahomes:

Record: 13-19 (.406%). 

0 National Championship Game Appearances. 

857/1349 (63.5%). 

11,252 passing yards. 

8.3 yards per pass attempt. 

93 TD's/29 INT's.

3.20 TD-to-INT Ratio. 

308 rushes for 845 rushing yards and 22 rushing TD's off an average of 2.7 yards per carry. 

QB Rating: 152.0. 

Vs. 

Trevor Lawrence: 

Record: 35-1 (.972%). 

2 National Championship Game appearances. 

662/995 (66.5%). 

8,778 passing yards. 

8.8 yards per pass attempt. 

83 TD's/14 INT's. 

5.9 TD-to-INT Ratio. 

192 rushes for 811 rushing yards and 14 rushing TD's off an average of 4.2 yards per carry. 

QB Rating: 165.4.

__________________

Trevor Lawrence was rated as the #1 player within the Country coming out of High School as a 5 star recruit.

compared to...

Patrick Mahomes who was rated as the 398th rated player within the Country coming out as a 3 star recruit. 

(and Mahomes never once had to play under the National/Media spotlight that Trevor Lawrence has had to overcome and play throughout dating back to even BEFORE H.S). 

I'm sorry but Patrick Mahomes being drafted by an already juggernaut K.C offense doesn't change the fact that Trevor Lawrence is the definition of a Generation QB prospect coming out who was A.) Rated as the #1 ranked H.S QB/Player coming out and B.) Still ranked as the #1 rated NCAA QB/Player coming out and C.) (something only both John Elway and Peyton Manning can say). 

Yes. Patrick Mahomes is great and he's been awesome in the NFL but.. 

Only John Elway and Peyton Manning were ever ranked and rated #1 overall as both HS and NCAA prospects who ended up getting drafted #1 overall;

Which is the reason why Trevor Lawrence is considered as the definition of Generational (as was Elway/Manning) because #1 rated kids like Elway/Manning/Lawrence who grew up under the National Media spotlight don't come along all that often (not even Andrew Luck was rated #1 coming out of HS, he was rated 42nd as a 4 star recruit). 

If you put a gun to my head and made me decide which QB I'd take for the Jets (not KC lol but for our Jets) I'm taking Trevor Lawrence over Patrick Mahomes (because Trevor grew up thriving under the national spotlight against media pressure, while Mahomes never had to). 

Trevor Lawrence is literally built for the spotlight and NY media pressure; it's in his DNA. 

I don't think you put enough words into that post

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10 minutes ago, peebag said:

I don't think you put enough words into that post

Cmon now- Let’s not discourage we’ll thought out posts.

Anyway

Mine is the opposite of a well thought out post:

If I were a GM no way could I avoid drafting Trevor Lawrence; after all the years of hype and him backing up said hype. I’m drafting Lawrence out of fear of not drafting Trevor Lawrence.

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Lawrence has the advantage over Fields in all but two categories.

Accuracy: Both are accurate. Fields is just more so and he has better feel for “touch” passes.
 

Seeing the field during a play: Lawrence seems to go to his first read on almost every play (probably because he’s open) and you just never really see him move his eyes from the first to the second and then to the third option. Maybe he can, but he just doesn’t do it. Fields seems to see everything. He knows where all of his receivers will be and does a good job of finding the next options when the first is not open, which happens far too often for an OSU team that is supposed to compete for a championship.

And just so it’s clear, Lawrence is clearly better in all other areas.

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5 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Trevor Lawrence is a much better prospect coming out of college than was Patrick Mahomes; and just because Mahomes was drafted into an already juggernaut K.C offense led by Andy Reid along with the likes of Tyreek Hill, Sammy Watkins and and Travis Kelce already in place... Doesn't mean he's pound for pound a better QB talent than Trevor Lawrence, because he's not.

__________________

Patrick Mahomes:

Record: 13-19 (.406%). 

0 National Championship Game Appearances. 

857/1349 (63.5%). 

11,252 passing yards. 

8.3 yards per pass attempt. 

93 TD's/29 INT's.

3.20 TD-to-INT Ratio. 

308 rushes for 845 rushing yards and 22 rushing TD's off an average of 2.7 yards per carry. 

QB Rating: 152.0. 

Vs. 

Trevor Lawrence: 

Record: 35-1 (.972%). 

2 National Championship Game appearances. 

662/995 (66.5%). 

8,778 passing yards. 

8.8 yards per pass attempt. 

83 TD's/14 INT's. 

5.9 TD-to-INT Ratio. 

192 rushes for 811 rushing yards and 14 rushing TD's off an average of 4.2 yards per carry. 

QB Rating: 165.4.

__________________

Trevor Lawrence was rated as the #1 player within the Country coming out of High School as a 5 star recruit.

compared to...

Patrick Mahomes who was rated as the 398th rated player within the Country coming out as a 3 star recruit. 

(and Mahomes never once had to play under the National/Media spotlight that Trevor Lawrence has had to overcome and play throughout dating back to even BEFORE H.S). 

I'm sorry but Patrick Mahomes being drafted by an already juggernaut K.C offense doesn't change the fact that Trevor Lawrence is the definition of a Generation QB prospect coming out who was A.) Rated as the #1 ranked H.S QB/Player coming out and B.) Still ranked as the #1 rated NCAA QB/Player coming out and C.) (something only both John Elway and Peyton Manning can say). 

Yes. Patrick Mahomes is great and he's been awesome in the NFL but.. 

Only John Elway and Peyton Manning were ever ranked and rated #1 overall as both HS and NCAA prospects who ended up getting drafted #1 overall;

Which is the reason why Trevor Lawrence is considered as the definition of Generational (as was Elway/Manning) because #1 rated kids like Elway/Manning/Lawrence who grew up under the National Media spotlight don't come along all that often (not even Andrew Luck was rated #1 coming out of HS, he was rated 42nd as a 4 star recruit). 

If you put a gun to my head and made me decide which QB I'd take for the Jets (not KC lol but for our Jets) I'm taking Trevor Lawrence over Patrick Mahomes (because Trevor grew up thriving under the national spotlight against media pressure, while Mahomes never had to). 

Trevor Lawrence is literally built for the spotlight and NY media pressure; it's in his DNA. 

While the gun was pointed to your head, did you forget that Mahomes dad was a professional baseball player? Doesn’t that even out their ability to handle the spotlight?

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Trevor Lawrence is 35-1 with 36 games under his belt, won 41 consecutive games in High School, became the first and only true Freshman to ever win a National Championship Game since dating back to 35 years ago of 1985 (the year I was born), ranked as the #1 HS Prospect within the entire Country heading into College and now rated as the #1 NCAA prospect within the entire Nation heading into the NFL draft etc and also has two seasons of NCAA Championship Game appearances (1-1 with his only (1) NCAA loss coming to a 5th year Joe Burrow during a National Championship Game). 

Sorry, but Justin Fields is not on Trevor Lawrence's type of level as a prospect and I don't think it's even close. 

Trevor Lawrence has won 76 of his last 77 games lol (76-1) dating back to High School; he's an absolute animal out there.

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If we're to land the #1 overall pick and Trevor Lawrence?

I'm immediately changing my Jets Avatar to Trevor Lawrence along with OffenseWinsChampionships (OWC) as my future user name; and before our Seattle pick of the 1st round too (instantly).

I'm ready for a change and a new culture/posting style (I can almost TASTE it).

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On 11/13/2020 at 1:28 PM, greenwichjetfan said:

I like this. His throws are aesthetically beautiful. However, accuracy is a concern, especially when you dig further and realize that in 2019, he had more passing yards than almost all of the top 10 QB candidates, but less air yards than every single one of them. He's throwing shorter, allowing his stellar teammates to make plays to get him yards and TDs, but even then he's erratic. Also, his completion % was higher than his on target % which tells me that his teammates deserve more credit than other teammates would for passes completed. Don't have this same data for 2020 yet.

Meanwhile, in 2019, Fields had almost as many passing yards but had significantly more air yards/attempt, and a higher target %. So far this year, it looks to be more of the same from both. 

Agreed, but I also believe that coaching will play a big factor in both of their abilities to succeed at the next level. 

Brilliant.  If youve read any of my takes on these 2 QBs, this is what I’ve been saying when I break down their snaps.  These numbers just confirm it.

 

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