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Lawrence vs Fields? College fans opinion please.


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8 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

what has Darnold shown this year for you to feel like that?

Darnold has shown absolutely nothing this year when he is healthy enough to play.
The challenge is judging his play with what is generally agreed as poor coaching, with an new oline (no training camp) that could not block, with his main wide receivers on IR, with tight ends that could not catch, with a defense that could not bail out a terrible offense, with a GM who could not find decent replacement parts in free agency.

Does he still suck? Probably, most likely... but there is that nagging little question mark.
How much less would he suck on Buffalo, Miami or on that team with those three second rounders that we traded to move up to get him...the Colts ?

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40 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

what has Darnold shown this year for you to feel like that?

No TE. Hogan and Berrios alot of the time. No running game. Constant pressure from guard to guard. A bad HC, what QB would impress under those circumstances.

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1 hour ago, genot said:

No TE. Hogan and Berrios alot of the time. No running game. Constant pressure from guard to guard. A bad HC, what QB would impress under those circumstances.

What QB throws off his back foot for absolutely no reason? What promising QB’s only consistency is throwing into double coverage? I’m not saying the situation around him isn’t important or hasn’t affected him...mentally..individually speaking...Darnold isn’t there.

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1 minute ago, Patriot Killa said:

What QB throws off his back foot for absolutely no reason? What promising QB’s only consistency is throwing into double coverage? I’m not saying the situation around him isn’t important or hasn’t affected him...mentally..individually speaking...Darnold isn’t there.

Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, name the QB and I'll get you video of him throwing off his back foot.  This is the most overblown reason to complain that is repeated over and over again.  I'd bet that most of those throws into 2x coverage is either desperately trying to make something happen, like the end of a horrid first half earlier this season or while under duress where yes he should throw the ball away or eat it. 

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5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, name the QB and I'll get you video of him throwing off his back foot.  This is the most overblown reason to complain that is repeated over and over again.  I'd bet that most of those throws into 2x coverage is either desperately trying to make something happen, like the end of a horrid first half earlier this season or while under duress where yes he should throw the ball away or eat it. 

I can’t say I agree. They may throw off their back foot sometimes but their footwork is consistent enough on a regular basis to give it a pass. Darnold does it all the time and his in-game mistakes are compounded by this very issue. His mechanics are terrible and he doesn’t make enough good decisions to combat those head scratcher plays.

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9 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

What QB throws off his back foot for absolutely no reason? What promising QB’s only consistency is throwing into double coverage? I’m not saying the situation around him isn’t important or hasn’t affected him...mentally..individually speaking...Darnold isn’t there.

He's shell shocked,no doubt He's trying to make a play,and forcing things. If he could have a stretch of games with the same WR receiver group and at least be afforded some time to settle down and see whats in front of him, instead of having to rush through his progressions,then we could have a clearer idea of what we have in him. Every good QB,has to deal with a pass rush,and somebody being in his face,but not to the extent that Darnold has. Any QB dealing with that will fold,eventually.

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26 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

I can’t say I agree. They may throw off their back foot sometimes but their footwork is consistent enough on a regular basis to give it a pass. Darnold does it all the time and his in-game mistakes are compounded by this very issue. His mechanics are terrible and he doesn’t make enough good decisions to combat those head scratcher plays.

Thats fine

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22 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

There is nothing "hype" about Trevor Lawrence. You can compare his NCAA statistics to any All-Time great NFL's NCAA statistics; and Trevor Lawrence ranks right up there with the best of them that's ever done it before on an NCAA level. 

• Trevor winning 41 consecutive games in H.S wasn't "hype"; it's the reason why he was rated as the #1 HS recruit within the entire Country heading into Clemson. 

• Trevor becoming the first and only True Freshman to win a National Championship Game (straight out of High School) dating back to 35 years ago of 1985 isn't "hype"; it's proof of why he was considered #1 coming out of H.S. 

• Trevor being 35-1 @ Clemson with two National Championship Game appearance(s) isn't "hype"; it's proof why he's (still rated) #1 overall heading into the NFL as the greatest QB in all of NCAA Football. 

✓ There have only been 2 QBs (before Trevor) to complete a #1 trifecta. Only Elway/Manning (ever) were both rated #1 coming out of H.S. #1 ranked in college before getting drafted #1 overall into the NFL (until Lawrence becomes the 3rd). Yes; generational. 

Trevor Lawrence is freaking 76-1 throughout his last 77 games dating back to H.S and you're calling him "hype" instead of a winner? 

Greatest prospect since Elway/Manning and it isn't even close. 

Yes its a great accomplishment that he's 35-1 at Clemson.

But two key things standout here 1) He's playing for a stacked Clemson program playing in and against a meh ACC schedule. 2) College QB's choose where they want to play , in my eyes that diminishes all those record types of things.  If colleges had a draft like the NFL and he put up stats and a W/L record like that at Northwestern or a team like Arkansas playing against power SEC and Big 10 teams while not having by far the most talent in your conference, then those numbers would be remarkable - otherwise they are  just another stat. 

Last year Joe Burrow had the greatest season as a college QB ever.  While he's playing well for the Bengals he's not cementing his bust in Canton just yet and his stats last year blow away anything any college QB ever did - including Trevor "Spicoli" Lawrence.  Joe Burrow was buoyed by one of the best college teams ever assembled , but he also played against an SEC schedule not just 1 or 2 games against top tier teams.  My point is Lawrence putting up these gaudy stats means nothing right now. He will be playing for a team(Jets/Jags/?) with probably lower talent than his college team while playing against a team of college all-stars each and every week. 

Throwing out words like can't miss and generational talent is plain foolish media hype.  Could he be a great NFL QB , absolutely , is his ticket punched for Canton absolutely not . 

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18 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, name the QB and I'll get you video of him throwing off his back foot.  This is the most overblown reason to complain that is repeated over and over again.  I'd bet that most of those throws into 2x coverage is either desperately trying to make something happen, like the end of a horrid first half earlier this season or while under duress where yes he should throw the ball away or eat it. 

Smart QB's make smart choices. True Sam's been left on a desert island this year but the mental aspect of his game is in the toilet and I'm not convinced he'll ever develop or recover. 

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On 11/13/2020 at 3:20 PM, Beerfish said:

Enlighten me.

Is Fields going to be WAY better than Kyler murray?

Is Lawrence going to be way better than patirck mahommes?

Last years college semi final:

One guy threw for 493 yards and 7 tds

Another guy threw for 253 yards and 2 tds

Another guy threw for 320 yards with a td and to ints

College final game:

One guy threw for 463 yards and 5 tds

the other guy threw for 234 yards (under 50% completion) and no tds

Joe burrow totally owned Lawrecne in every way.

No its just that for one of the 1st times in his college career Lawerence wasn't on the team with the most talent. He was forced to try and carry his team . Again I'm not trying to knock Lawrenece I think he can be a quality NFL QB  and if the Jets draft him - I'll be pulling for him 100% , I just don't think he's the QB messiah everyone wants to label him as. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 9:53 AM, 56mehl56 said:

Smart QB's make smart choices. True Sam's been left on a desert island this year but the mental aspect of his game is in the toilet and I'm not convinced he'll ever develop or recover. 

Sounds good but we all know, that QBs getting beat up while playing on bad teams, trying to get wins make mistakes.  

You may be right about his mental state but no one knows for sure other than it sounds like an option 

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On 11/13/2020 at 3:20 PM, Beerfish said:

Last years college semi final:

One guy threw for 493 yards and 7 tds

Another guy threw for 253 yards and 2 tds

Another guy threw for 320 yards with a td and to ints

College final game:

One guy threw for 463 yards and 5 tds

the other guy threw for 234 yards (under 50% completion) and no tds

Joe burrow totally owned Lawrecne in every way.

One whole game trumps their entire careers?

And of course when Clemson lost to LSU, it really wasnt team vs team, it was Lawrence vs Burrow

Im going to project your logic.  Pennington mopped the floor with Mannings Colts team in the playoffs, how meaningful was that game in rating their careers?  

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@JiF I'm warming up to Fields and IMHO he can close the gap with Lawrence. That being said my only real issue with Fields was how he performed in a big game vs Lawrence. SOOOO in this years BCS I expect both teams will be a part of that equasion and both players will be facing a good defense no matter who they play including each other. I'm willing to give Fields the chance to do better in the face of pressure which would close the gap even further. Further enough to possibly contend for the number 1 over all pick. 

I have come to this conclusion based on some small things I have seen with Lawrence who can get erratic at times but he does always seem to be under a lot of pressure and his OL is suspect. 

Its very hard to judge these 2 QB's when it comes to the talent both players bring to the table. Just like any other QB drafted in past drafts you never know how they will handle the pressure of the NFL especially playing in NY with the potential to be the NY Jets savior.

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On 11/13/2020 at 1:03 PM, HawkeyeJet said:

I can't believe anyone can follow what I post with all my typos haha.  Any way, no I don't necessarily see Big Ben.  Big Ben is huge and hard to bring down in a statue type of way. Lawrence is mobile.

I actually have a very hard time finding a comp for Lawrence.  Allen is the closest I think as a skill set, but I think Lawrence is a better prospect.  

As a thrower, simply the ball in flight etc, Lawrence reminds me most of Matthew Stafford actually.  Super huge arm, fits balls into windows, and everything just looks like it's firm coming out of his hand.  And when he's locked in you just wonder how he ever misses.  But he hits spurts of erratic accuracy.

As a runner, Clemson uses him like Josh Allen some, but he's not a huge physical runner like Allen or Cam Newton.  He's more like Watson when it comes to running.

I think the thing that separates Lawrence in most people's eyes is they presume he has the intangibles Watson has shown he does. 

What it likely all boils down too is who will be able to handle the mental capacity for the position in the NFL.  That's very hard to predict.  If Lawrence comes in and starts making reads and decisions like Mitch Trubisky, his skills won't be enough to carry him alone.

Same with Fields, if he can't make the reads and decisions, he won't look anything like Rodgers, more like Sam Darnold currently does.

I have to watch a lot of film on both this offseason, I really havent gotten a chance to break anything down yet other than what I break down for my own coaching, but I do have a little knowledge at least of what clemson runs from a schematic standpoint. 

@sec101row23 can correct me here if im wrong since he is the clemson expert, but I saw one of the offensive assistants at clinics a few times (Kyle Richardson).  And he did a really nice job of breaking down a lot of the pass/run/rpo concepts their offense is built around and the read progression of the concepts.   

Now not to say that Lawrence cant make post snap progression reads (he has to process a good deal of information), but alot of the clemson offense is pre snap reading and then based off of that information which side of the field he is working or which route concept he is working.  They also use a lot of option routes so Lawrence does have to process a decent amount of information like i said previously.  For example they have a 3x1 stick concept that they use frequently.  The single receiver is the box read (running a 9/5 option route), Lawrence pre snap will decide if he likes the box read (based off of the coverage and defensive alignment), if he does thats the throw right away (higgins made a killing on this), if he doesnt he knows presnap he's working the stick concept to the 3 man side. The stick concept usually has a clear our route which is not part of the qbs initial read progression and then they are using option routes to either high low or inside out the flat defender.  Lawrence reads the defenders drop and delivers the ball to the open man.  (theres more to this on the WR side having to run a different route based on defender alignment and things of that nature).  

My only questions is how well does Lawrence go through all his progressions, and how often do they have him making full field reads.  Can he look to the left, come back to a 3rd read on the right and deliver an accurate ball.  Also how well does he handle pressure, is he calm and collected, is he frenetic?  I know that has been a knock from some scouts on him. 

Fields i do not know what Day is running there at OSU.  I have urban meyers entire playbook from his days at Utah, and know how that offense works, but I've heard day has changed a good deal this year because of what Fields is able to handle.  From the few games i've seen this year and last Fields is extremely comfortable under pressure and I have seen him go through a few reads as well.  But to me there is still alot of unknowns as I havent watched enough of him to get an idea of what I'm seeing.  Based off his performances so far this year though he has to be in the conversation as top guy with lawrence. 

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30 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I have to watch a lot of film on both this offseason, I really havent gotten a chance to break anything down yet other than what I break down for my own coaching, but I do have a little knowledge at least of what clemson runs from a schematic standpoint. 

@sec101row23 can correct me here if im wrong since he is the clemson expert, but I saw one of the offensive assistants at clinics a few times (Kyle Richardson).  And he did a really nice job of breaking down a lot of the pass/run/rpo concepts their offense is built around and the read progression of the concepts.   

Now not to say that Lawrence cant make post snap progression reads (he has to process a good deal of information), but alot of the clemson offense is pre snap reading and then based off of that information which side of the field he is working or which route concept he is working.  They also use a lot of option routes so Lawrence does have to process a decent amount of information like i said previously.  For example they have a 3x1 stick concept that they use frequently.  The single receiver is the box read (running a 9/5 option route), Lawrence pre snap will decide if he likes the box read (based off of the coverage and defensive alignment), if he does thats the throw right away (higgins made a killing on this), if he doesnt he knows presnap he's working the stick concept to the 3 man side. The stick concept usually has a clear our route which is not part of the qbs initial read progression and then they are using option routes to either high low or inside out the flat defender.  Lawrence reads the defenders drop and delivers the ball to the open man.  (theres more to this on the WR side having to run a different route based on defender alignment and things of that nature).  

My only questions is how well does Lawrence go through all his progressions, and how often do they have him making full field reads.  Can he look to the left, come back to a 3rd read on the right and deliver an accurate ball.  Also how well does he handle pressure, is he calm and collected, is he frenetic?  I know that has been a knock from some scouts on him. 

Fields i do not know what Day is running there at OSU.  I have urban meyers entire playbook from his days at Utah, and know how that offense works, but I've heard day has changed a good deal this year because of what Fields is able to handle.  From the few games i've seen this year and last Fields is extremely comfortable under pressure and I have seen him go through a few reads as well.  But to me there is still alot of unknowns as I havent watched enough of him to get an idea of what I'm seeing.  Based off his performances so far this year though he has to be in the conversation as top guy with lawrence. 

I love the break down.  I think the biggest aspect to take away here is making it simple for the QB to read the field, and lower the amount of things that need to be processed.  If we go back to the Chan Gailey days, he used to love running mirror concepts, and the QB had to pick one side at the line of scrimmage.  It's why Fitzpatrick thrives in it because the initial read is pre-snap, and then all he focuses in is one side of the field.  When that is disguised and taken away, the miscues follow because he's not used to doing full field reads.  

That is why I want a coach that has an offensive system that can be installed for the QB.  I was watching something on Joe Brady and how he uses concepts to give the QB easy reads depending on the defense.  I mean it helps to have their level of weapons, but that is something we are missing.  

I think the biggest factor to the QB choice depends on the coaching choice.   You need to know how guys process the speed of the game in real time.  I know when JD was hired, he was all into analytics and new technology.  I wonder if we could disregard the white board, and go full VR for a QB mental breakdown.  You have them wear VR while the QB is at the line, sort of like Madden.  Instead of the top down view of a whiteboard, you see the field level view.  I think Romo mentioned it a few times, but something to the effect of seeing it from the broadcast booth in real time makes it much easier to understand.  I'm thinking it's easier to understand the concepts on a board, but can you read it while on the field level?  Then, once the pre-snap read is done, could the coach freeze it at a certain point and ask for a read? I think something along those lines works better than the whiteboard concepts.  It helps you understand disguises in real time, and what exactly the QB is looking at.  I know it skews far towards the Madden playing crowd at home, but I think we need more incorporation of technology.  

 

 

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18 hours ago, win4ever said:

I love the break down.  I think the biggest aspect to take away here is making it simple for the QB to read the field, and lower the amount of things that need to be processed.  If we go back to the Chan Gailey days, he used to love running mirror concepts, and the QB had to pick one side at the line of scrimmage.  It's why Fitzpatrick thrives in it because the initial read is pre-snap, and then all he focuses in is one side of the field.  When that is disguised and taken away, the miscues follow because he's not used to doing full field reads.  

That is why I want a coach that has an offensive system that can be installed for the QB.  I was watching something on Joe Brady and how he uses concepts to give the QB easy reads depending on the defense.  I mean it helps to have their level of weapons, but that is something we are missing.  

I think the biggest factor to the QB choice depends on the coaching choice.   You need to know how guys process the speed of the game in real time.  I know when JD was hired, he was all into analytics and new technology.  I wonder if we could disregard the white board, and go full VR for a QB mental breakdown.  You have them wear VR while the QB is at the line, sort of like Madden.  Instead of the top down view of a whiteboard, you see the field level view.  I think Romo mentioned it a few times, but something to the effect of seeing it from the broadcast booth in real time makes it much easier to understand.  I'm thinking it's easier to understand the concepts on a board, but can you read it while on the field level?  Then, once the pre-snap read is done, could the coach freeze it at a certain point and ask for a read? I think something along those lines works better than the whiteboard concepts.  It helps you understand disguises in real time, and what exactly the QB is looking at.  I know it skews far towards the Madden playing crowd at home, but I think we need more incorporation of technology.  

 

 

Gase actually uses a lot of this technology now.  There were a few articles about all this new technology he brought into the facility when he was hired.  VR was one of the things, and I know last year the defense was using some type of VR projection in a conference room with garbage can to walk through running plays.  I dont know if i could find the article, but there are a few out there.   

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On 11/16/2020 at 9:49 AM, 56mehl56 said:

Yes its a great accomplishment that he's 35-1 at Clemson.

But two key things standout here 1) He's playing for a stacked Clemson program playing in and against a meh ACC schedule. 2) College QB's choose where they want to play , in my eyes that diminishes all those record types of things.  If colleges had a draft like the NFL and he put up stats and a W/L record like that at Northwestern or a team like Arkansas playing against power SEC and Big 10 teams while not having by far the most talent in your conference, then those numbers would be remarkable - otherwise they are  just another stat. 

Last year Joe Burrow had the greatest season as a college QB ever.  While he's playing well for the Bengals he's not cementing his bust in Canton just yet and his stats last year blow away anything any college QB ever did - including Trevor "Spicoli" Lawrence.  Joe Burrow was buoyed by one of the best college teams ever assembled , but he also played against an SEC schedule not just 1 or 2 games against top tier teams.  My point is Lawrence putting up these gaudy stats means nothing right now. He will be playing for a team(Jets/Jags/?) with probably lower talent than his college team while playing against a team of college all-stars each and every week. 

Throwing out words like can't miss and generational talent is plain foolish media hype.  Could he be a great NFL QB , absolutely , is his ticket punched for Canton absolutely not . 

I also wonder if people would put Fields up closer to Trevor if Fields had started all 3 years, which he really should have.  I understand what Georgia did, but hes so much more talented then Fromm its not even close.

Lets all hope Fields continues to get better in his progressions etc and makes having pick #2 just as good as 1.

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19 hours ago, win4ever said:

I know when JD was hired, he was all into analytics and new technology.  I wonder if we could disregard the white board, and go full VR for a QB mental breakdown.  You have them wear VR while the QB is at the line, sort of like Madden.  Instead of the top down view of a whiteboard, you see the field level view. 

Funny, I had literally heard the opposite about Douglas.  Not that he is "anti-technology" but that he was more old school than analytics guy.  Of course, I don't have any sources and I am just reading the same articles as everybody else, but I could be wrong.  I saw an article on that VR quarterbacking probably 5 years ago.  I think it was with Shaw the guy at Stanford nobody wants anymore.  I assumed everybody was using it by now.  I do remember the garbage can/VR room with the D article that @Chrebetfan80mentions.

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2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Funny, I had literally heard the opposite about Douglas.  Not that he is "anti-technology" but that he was more old school than analytics guy.  Of course, I don't have any sources and I am just reading the same articles as everybody else, but I could be wrong.  I saw an article on that VR quarterbacking probably 5 years ago.  I think it was with Shaw the guy at Stanford nobody wants anymore.  I assumed everybody was using it by now.  I do remember the garbage can/VR room with the D article that @Chrebetfan80mentions.

Robbie doesn't score high on average first downs per reception either. He is working underneath the sticks.

Less Chrebet comparison, more Curtis Martin comparison. Compiling.

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51 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Robbie doesn't score high on average first downs per reception either. He is working underneath the sticks.

Less Chrebet comparison, more Curtis Martin comparison. Compiling.

Oh bullsh*t.  It does not in anyway indicate that he is working underneath the sticks.  It indicates that he is getting his catches on 1st and 2nd downs.  He has 35 ******* first downs.   Moore has 33 and Samuel 20, yet they are very high on your list.  He gets 9 yards per target.  Stop acting like he is averaging 4 yards per. 

He did not get a historic contract.  He got a contract commensurate with his production and this "compiling" and working underneath would be proving that he is considerably more versatile than was being spouted around here. 

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On 11/16/2020 at 6:14 PM, Jet Nut said:

One whole game trumps their entire careers?

And of course when Clemson lost to LSU, it really wasnt team vs team, it was Lawrence vs Burrow

Im going to project your logic.  Pennington mopped the floor with Mannings Colts team in the playoffs, how meaningful was that game in rating their careers?  

You could use that argument if Pennington and the Jets always played against teams they were better than and then just once beat a team that was superior to the Jets.

Probably the only time Lawrence and Clemson faced a team with more talent than them they lost. Its the same scenario with Vernon Gholston coming out of college , racking up sacks totals against teams like Kent State but disappearing in bowl games or big time conference matchups where he faced good O lines. Now am I comparing Lawrence to Gholston - hell no, its just that the relative talent comparison of teams Clemson faced has to be taken into consideration when evaluating Trevor. 

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31 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

 

Probably the only time Lawrence and Clemson faced a team with more talent than them they lost. 

Congrats to LSU. It took a 5th year developing Burrow to ever give a true Sophomore his one and only loss (35-1). If Trevor were a 5th year developing player? lol

What are you talking about? That Alabama team he destroyed ending up sending over 20 players to the NFL throughout the following two NFL drafts. 

And that's kind of what happens when you're ranked as the #1 HS recruit within the Country coming out; you get to pick which top ranked team you get to play for as a QB because every team in the Nation was begging for TL. 

And as an FSU fan of the ACC can we stop acting and pretending that Clemson is some legendary historic National Championship Winning program? Because they're not; they've got a whopping 3 All-Time Championships compared to the likes of Alabama (17), Michigan (11), Notre Dame (11), USC (11), Ohio State (8), Oklahoma (7), Tennessee (6), Miami (5), LSU (4), Texas (4), Florida (3), FSU (3) etc etc so if you truly believe Clemson is "stealing all the HS talent" you're dead wrong. 

Miami Hurricanes are 7-1 this year and would be undefeated if not for Trevor Lawrence destroying them. 

TL throughout 36 games @ Clemson is 35-1 but yet during his two missed games due to Covid his Clemson team only went 1-1 and almost went 0-2 without him ala it only took two games before their 1st loss compared to 35-1.

Watson/Lawrence put Clemson on the Championship map as QBs and Clemson as a football program could never and would have never won crap without them. They aren't Alabama, bra. 

Dabo been @ Clemson since 2008 and never won crap before Watson/Lawrence.

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28 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

You could use that argument if Pennington and the Jets always played against teams they were better than and then just once beat a team that was superior to the Jets.

Probably the only time Lawrence and Clemson faced a team with more talent than them they lost. Its the same scenario with Vernon Gholston coming out of college , racking up sacks totals against teams like Kent State but disappearing in bowl games or big time conference matchups where he faced good O lines. Now am I comparing Lawrence to Gholston - hell no, its just that the relative talent comparison of teams Clemson faced has to be taken into consideration when evaluating Trevor. 

They may not have been better, but I would say the Alabama team they beat for the national championship was just as good (talent wise)

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On 11/16/2020 at 9:27 PM, Smashmouth said:

@JiF I'm warming up to Fields and IMHO he can close the gap with Lawrence. That being said my only real issue with Fields was how he performed in a big game vs Lawrence. SOOOO in this years BCS I expect both teams will be a part of that equasion and both players will be facing a good defense no matter who they play including each other. I'm willing to give Fields the chance to do better in the face of pressure which would close the gap even further. Further enough to possibly contend for the number 1 over all pick. 

I have come to this conclusion based on some small things I have seen with Lawrence who can get erratic at times but he does always seem to be under a lot of pressure and his OL is suspect. 

Its very hard to judge these 2 QB's when it comes to the talent both players bring to the table. Just like any other QB drafted in past drafts you never know how they will handle the pressure of the NFL especially playing in NY with the potential to be the NY Jets savior.

I'm glad your warming up, he's a great player but I just dont understand why you fail to see that Fields out played Lawrence, I dont know how to make this any clear, his 2 picks were not his fault.  Lawrence was absolutely horrible that game, completely erratic, inaccurate, bad feet, didnt see pressure.  He was really bad despite the win and the game winning drive was all Entienne.   And you're still knocking Fields for this 1 game but you refuse to knock Lawrence for putting up the worst performance by a QB in the history of the National Championship game.  It just so happened to be the first time he played a better team too.  That was also Fields first play off game and TL's 3rd.  So why that doesnt concern you but Fields 1 game where he actually out played Lawrence does, is beyond me, but you do you.

As for handling pressure, OSU plays Indiana Sat. and while OSU obviously is much more talented, the Hoosiers play some crazy D.  Lots of different looks, everything from 3-3-5 to 5-2-4 to standard Nickel sets....and they do it to leverage speed and blitz like crazy.  Guys coming from everywhere, so should be a game to see how he handles different looks and blitzes.  From what I've seen so far from Fields this year is he doesnt use a lot of dump offs, he'll just try to evade the pressure and continue to look downfield, which you can get away with from time to time but not sure you can with Indiana.

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On 11/15/2020 at 11:15 AM, Beerfish said:

High school and wins and losses at the college level when you are playing on a monster best recruit class school is a small part of a story of a QB.

Greg Mcelroy was 24-3

AJ MCarron lead Bama to the nat in his 1st year.

Lawrence is a really good Qb prospect, maybe the #1 guy this year.

Lawrence is not some generational god QB.

Against teams with similar talent levels in the playoffs last year he played okay  vs ohio state, the got taken out to the wood shed and has his ass spanked by LSU and Joe Burrow.

College playoffs this year will be a crucial measuring stick for him and Fields.

 

You me and @JiF have been fighting the good fight for months - well before Fields started shooting up the boards. I completely agree and have many posts about it, but unfortunately at some point it just becomes useless when met with arguments using high school wins and “it just is”.

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54 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

Robbie doesn't score high on average first downs per reception either. He is working underneath the sticks.

Less Chrebet comparison, more Curtis Martin comparison. Compiling.

 

36 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Oh bullsh*t.  It does not in anyway indicate that he is working underneath the sticks.  It indicates that he is getting his catches on 1st and 2nd downs.  He has 35 ******* first downs.   Moore has 33 and Samuel 20, yet they are very high on your list.  He gets 9 yards per target.  Stop acting like he is averaging 4 yards per. 

He did not get a historic contract.  He got a contract commensurate with his production and this "compiling" and working underneath would be proving that he is considerably more versatile than was being spouted around here. 

How did this get stuck here?  This belongs in the Robby thread.  

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1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

 

Dabo been @ Clemson since 2008 and never won crap before Watson/Lawrence.

ACC superfan historian, you legit dont know sh*t about sh*t.  lol

Ever heard of John Heisman? 

Ever heard of Danny Ford? 

Might want to look them up before you keep running your jib, Stan.

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If you want insight into Fields watch QB1 Season 2 on Netflix. He's always been very mature and able to take on a lot, and his dad emphasizes to him what it takes to be a leader, like telling him he needs to look confident on the sideline after making a bad play because his teammates are watching him. Fields seems to embrace the efforts to make him a better QB and leader. The kid is a sponge. 

Something else I noted was that his Dad is a policeman and is on the sidelines in uniform for every game, even the away games --- weird.

Also, after playing another team, the opposing head coach came over to Fields and said, I've been doing this for 27 years, and you are the best I've ever seen. It seemed genuine.

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On 11/15/2020 at 11:15 AM, Beerfish said:

High school and wins and losses at the college level when you are playing on a monster best recruit class school is a small part of a story of a QB.

Greg Mcelroy was 24-3

AJ MCarron lead Bama to the nat in his 1st year.

Lawrence is a really good Qb prospect, maybe the #1 guy this year.

Lawrence is not some generational god QB.

Against teams with similar talent levels in the playoffs last year he played okay  vs ohio state, the got taken out to the wood shed and has his ass spanked by LSU and Joe Burrow.

College playoffs this year will be a crucial measuring stick for him and Fields.

 

I keep asking myself, what would Darnold's final season of college football looked like if he was the QB at Clemson in Lawrence's shoes. Same teammates, same coaches, same competition, etc...   People should not ignore how those factors play into what a QB looks like on the field. 

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16 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I keep asking myself, what would Darnold's final season of college football looked like if he was the QB at Clemson in Lawrence's shoes. Same teammates, same coaches, same competition, etc...   People should not ignore how those factors play into what a QB looks like on the field. 

This is why I compared Lawrence to Herbert.  Same size, mobility, good arms one played at oregon one at Clemson.

I think they have similar potential.  The nat champ games will be very important again this year.  Finally players going up against similar talent levels.

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2 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Congrats to LSU. It took a 5th year developing Burrow to ever give a true Sophomore his one and only loss (35-1). If Trevor were a 5th year developing player? lol

What are you talking about? That Alabama team he destroyed ending up sending over 20 players to the NFL throughout the following two NFL drafts. 

And that's kind of what happens when you're ranked as the #1 HS recruit within the Country coming out; you get to pick which top ranked team you get to play for as a QB because every team in the Nation was begging for TL. 

And as an FSU fan of the ACC can we stop acting and pretending that Clemson is some legendary historic National Championship Winning program? Because they're not; they've got a whopping 3 All-Time Championships compared to the likes of Alabama (17), Michigan (11), Notre Dame (11), USC (11), Ohio State (8), Oklahoma (7), Tennessee (6), Miami (5), LSU (4), Texas (4), Florida (3), FSU (3) etc etc so if you truly believe Clemson is "stealing all the HS talent" you're dead wrong. 

Miami Hurricanes are 7-1 this year and would be undefeated if not for Trevor Lawrence destroying them. 

TL throughout 36 games @ Clemson is 35-1 but yet during his two missed games due to Covid his Clemson team only went 1-1 and almost went 0-2 without him ala it only took two games before their 1st loss compared to 35-1.

Watson/Lawrence put Clemson on the Championship map as QBs and Clemson as a football program could never and would have never won crap without them. They aren't Alabama, bra. 

Dabo been @ Clemson since 2008 and never won crap before Watson/Lawrence.

That NCG against Bama was for all intents and purposes won on defense . Two Int's, one a pick 6 on Bama's first offense play and two fumbles . Add in a couple of turnovers on downs and that really was the story of the game. Kudos to Clemson as they were able to take advantage of the mistakes and win the game. Lawrence had a good game , but the game was won on defense , like in Defense Wins Championships.

And I'm not sure what past titles has to do with how good a current  team is especially in College Football where every year there is massive rotation in and out of a roster. Prime example is LSU this year which lost two thirds of their defense , Burrow, CEH, Jefferson , not to mention Joe Brady (OC) and Dave Aranda(DC). Sure there are programs that have a higher legacy factor like those you listed solely on their ability to recruit the top talent from HS. Bottom line success in college football leads to more success as kids are attracted to a program that wins, but to base the argument on number of titles is flawed. 

 

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3 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

You could use that argument if Pennington and the Jets always played against teams they were better than and then just once beat a team that was superior to the Jets.

Probably the only time Lawrence and Clemson faced a team with more talent than them they lost. Its the same scenario with Vernon Gholston coming out of college , racking up sacks totals against teams like Kent State but disappearing in bowl games or big time conference matchups where he faced good O lines. Now am I comparing Lawrence to Gholston - hell no, its just that the relative talent comparison of teams Clemson faced has to be taken into consideration when evaluating Trevor. 

I could actually go back to the week before that win against the Colts when they beat the then 11-4, Favre led Packers, again beat them to a pulp.  Both those games Chad was either perfect or close in one, perfect in the other.

Still makes my point.  Beating a team doesnt make your QB better than the losing QB

Trevor Lawrence has been the top QB prospect since the start go HS, im not caring about Clemson.  Not like Fields is playing to a different type schedule, the subject here.

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