Joe Douglas drafting James Morgan during the 4th round was absolutely criminal.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Generally agree as I've said that a million times over the years, but in a class where their biggest needs (WR and OL) were so deep?  There were legitimate starting players to be had at both positions and he goes QB3?  If you can get a quality OL or WR who will play (and possibly start) this year, you go with that over a QB3.  

Drafting for need is how you end up with major disappointments all the time, like you get with Tyler Biadasz.  The draft isn't the place to focus entirely on short-term needs and instant gratification.  The point is to be thinking about what your team is going to look like 3 years down the road.  

Give me the GM that chooses to swing for the fences in the middle/late rounds.  Not some limp d*ck that drafts purely for need.  

[Jetster]

You bring Morgan up through YOUR system so you don’t pay a vet backup. 
Again, Jets fans are in the HERE & NOW, Joe Douglas is a guy who learned under mentors who actually have a plan. 
Maybe JD decided to not take another WR in the 4th because he’s gonna have a war chest of cap money to bring in a savvy vet like Allen Robinson or Ju Ju Smith. You don’t think these guys do their homework on 2021 free agents, their current situations & where their current teams are with the salary cap? 
We saw Joe Douglas play chess while Macc played checkers when he traded out & freaked out every Jet fan posting OMG he traded out when Mims was right there! 
He did his f*cking homework, had an idea about other teams needs, available players ect. 
It was like a f*cking ninja move compared to the idiocy we’ve had to watch over the last 10 years during the draft! 
1 freaking draft & we have fans already wanting to can our GM? Woody & Chris Johnson stumbling in to being able to bring Douglas in here is the most fortunate stroke of luck this organization has had in 52 years. Unlike Parcells he’s in this for the long haul. Painful as it is this season, it’s totally worth the direction I think JD can take us. Every time he sent another bad move packing it was a signal he has the balls today’s criticism for tomorrow’s accolades. 

[68JET11]

If your the GM and you've only been around for a year and this is your first draft and don't really think you have a QB on your team, you draft a QB every year until you find what you are looking for... He may like or not like Sam, but it wasn't his draft pick, so I'm not quite sure why this is a foreign concept for the OP...

[AFJF]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Drafting for need is how you end up with major disappointments all the time, like you get with Tyler Biadasz.  The draft isn't the place to focus entirely on short-term needs and instant gratification.  The point is to be thinking about what your team is going to look like 3 years down the road.  

Give me the GM that chooses to swing for the fences in the middle/late rounds.  Not some limp d*ck that drafts purely for need.  

Sounds as if you're assuming that because they player fills a need he can't be good?  What if they player you need is also very good and becomes a productive rookie starter?

[Defense Wins Championships]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I hear ya.  But Hackenberg was basically undraftable, with a college profile that never could demonstrate pro success.  If you can't complete 60 % of your throws against Indiana, in 4 attempts, you're not going to do it in the pros.

Rumor had it that Belichick wanted Morgan.  No idea if that's true or not, but it could partly explain why JD jumped on Morgan in rd 4 rather than rd 5.  Maybe Belichick was just "playing" Douglas.  Who knows. 

But either way there's no good reason to hate this pick as much as people do.  Sam Darnold isn't a franchise QB.  We thus had needs at QB1 AND QB2.  And Morgan, while a bit of a lottery ticket, absolutely could have QB1 upside.  

You mention Hack not throwing for 60% etc but then ignore how after 5 years in college James Morgan for FIU (LOL) had a career completion % within the 50's?!? Hypocritical, much? Dude couldn't even complete 60% against the Florida Atlantic, North Texas and Rice's of the world...

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Sounds as if you're assuming that because they player fills a need he can't be good?  What if they player you need is also very good and becomes a productive rookie starter?

Generally speaking, by the time you get to the 4th/5th rounds, it's extremely unlikely to find a player who fills an immediate need AND is an exceptional player.  You're looking at a lot of project types in those rounds. 

The best bet, as a general philosophy, is to take some big swings on really good athletes and then develop them.

I admit I wasn't a huge fan of the Perine pick because he's a limited athlete.  At RB you want to take chances on "home run" types by the time you hit those rounds.  But then again, finding a Bilal Powell isn't so bad either, so if Perine ends up being another Powell, it isn't a terrible pick.  

[JustInFudge]

Ummmmm Biadasz has been absolutely horrible, like many of us thought he would be.  He gets pushed around easily.

The crime in Morgan is playing Flacco over him.

Where you're allowed to be upset with JD was Davis/Zuniga over Damien Lewis, Lloyd Cushenberry and Solomon Kindley

[chirorob]

30 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Aren’t the Cowboys QBs going down like dominos because the Oline is all injured? The backups have played like dogsh*t. 

No.  Dak was a freak injury.

Dalton went down on a late hit headshot.

[David Harris]

The OP is way off base, and I agree with him.  The Morgan pick was a very bad idea IMO.  However, that is the only pick of the entire draft I didn't like.  After years of Stephen Hill's, Jachai Polite's, and Trevon Wesco's I can't crucify JD for one bad pick in the 4th round. 

 

There were WR and OL contributors available there.  Guys that actually could have helped us.  You can easily sign decent vet backups suck as Flacco, Newton or Simien for cheap money these days.  There's no point in using draft capital and cheap rookie contracts for a backup project QB.

Though it did sound like Belicheck had his eye on Morgan around there.  And looking at their sh*tty QB room that may have made it worth it. 

[AFJF]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Generally speaking, by the time you get to the 4th/5th rounds, it's extremely unlikely to find a player who fills an immediate need AND is an exceptional player.  You're looking at a lot of project types in those rounds. 

The best bet, as a general philosophy, is to take some big swings on really good athletes and then develop them.

To each his own, but to me it sounds like you're describing what I view as 6th/7th round picks.  I mean, if round 1-3 are considered premium rounds, I don't see how the very next round should be used on long shot projects.  

Either way, the Jets passed on a couple of year 1 productive starters in place of a developmental inaccurate QB.  Hope it works out.

[Sarge4Tide]

 

[Sonny Werblin]

44 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

He's supposed to be some type of "O-Line Guro" but yet he drafted a 5th year project of a QB in James Morgan, out of a small program (FIU), with an NCAA completion percentage within the 50's; and passed up on an awesome Tyler Biadasz (who many of us loved) out of Wisconsin... How does that even... happen?

Tyler Biadasz was selected as a 3rd-team All-Big Ten selection (2017) before developing into an All-Big 10 First-team selection come both years of 2018 and 2019 and Tyler Biadasz also earned the 'Rimington Trophy' last year; which is only awarded to best Center within the Country

(he could've became our next Mawae/Mangold 3.0). 

I'm sorry but Joe Douglas passing on Tyler Biadasz for JAMES MORGAN was and is still absolutely criminal. 

4th round? A premium pick? And you use it on James Morgan? Wow. 

And you know what else frustrates me about this so called "O-Lineman Guro" outside of letting an undrafted WR gem in Robby Anderson hit the open market and selecting James Morgan lol?

Brian Winters is now Buffalo's starting LG for Josh Allen on a 7-2 Bills team. 

Kelvin Beachum is now Arizona's starting RT for Kyler Murray on a 5-3 Cardinals team. 

Brandon Shell is now Seattle's starting RT for Russell Wilson on a 6-2 Seahawks team. 

And in return JD gave us absolute FA O-Line crap in McGovern, Fant and Andrews. 

In closing. I swear. If we finish 0-16 and draft Trevor Lawrence? I want WOODY to bring in a different head coach (someone like Harbaugh) and a brand new GM too (someone who will actually know what to do with all of our available cap space and not pass up on the next Tyler Biadasz @ Center all for the next 4th round QB in "James Morgan" ).  

Becton falling to him was a great pick. Mims was a great pick too. But JD has been an absolute horrible GM thus far (Frank Gore says hello). 

My rant is over. 

Agree on the Morgan vs Biadasz. 

The rest as to the O line just makes me think that our O line coach sucks.  Guys perform better elsewhere than with the Jets...?  Hmmmm.... I wonder why that could be?

[Gastineau Lives]

48 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I suppose it’s a good sign that Douglas haters have progressed from “every draft pick sucks!” to “uhhhhhh drafting a project QB in the fourth round instead of this OL guy with bad knees was bad!” 

My kneebone's connected to my hamstring bone...?

 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, David Harris said:

You can easily sign decent vet backups suck as Flacco, Newton or Simien for cheap money these days.  There's no point in using draft capital and cheap rookie contracts for a backup project QB.

Cheap veteran backup QB's are cheap for a reason.  They're terrible.  And even Flacco was only as cheap as he was because he wasn't going to be ready for Week 1. 

This is just wrong from a philosophical perspective.  There is EVERY reason to use a midround pick on a project QB.  Why?  Because the upside is enormous.  Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins were 4th rounders.  If a high upside QB ends up working out, you either have your answer at QB OR you have a guy you can flip in a trade for a big haul.  There's only 12-15 guys on the planet at any given time who can play the QB position well at the pro level, making it the most scarce asset you can have.  You HAVE to take chances at QB's in that light, because the potential return on investment is huge.

And what's the downside?  Oh, he's a cheap QB2 for 3-4 seasons?  The horror!  I guess if Morgan doesn't  work out as a QB2, you can certainly call it a wasted pick in the end, but I'm willing to chase the upside there if I'm a GM.  Certainly GM's have whiffed on 4th round picks often enough over the years that it really isn't a big deal if Morgan is a miss.  

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, AFJF said:

To each his own, but to me it sounds like you're describing what I view as 6th/7th round picks.  I mean, if round 1-3 are considered premium rounds, I don't see how the very next round should be used on long shot projects.  

Either way, the Jets passed on a couple of year 1 productive starters in place of a developmental inaccurate QB.  Hope it works out.

Rounds 1 and 2 are the only premium rounds, to me.  3-5 are the middle rounds where you chase athleticism and upside, not instant gratification.  Rounds 6-7 are a mix of extreme lottery tickets, special teams contributors, and guys you think are likely to be UDFA's, but take them anyways to "get ahead of the game".

[Beerfish]

21 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

That's absolutely not true.

Ariz: Brett Hunldy (failed in green bay)

Atl - Matt Schaub

Balt - RG3

Buffalo - Matt Barkley

Carolina - UDFA backup

Chicago - Mitch trubisky (drafted to start, flopped)

Clev - Case Keenum

Dallas - Andy Dalton

Detroit  - chase Daniel

Green Bay - Drafted jordan love in the 1st round

Houston  - AJ McCarron

Indy - Jacoby Brissette

Jax - Mike Glennon

KC - Chad Henne

Vegas - Mariota

Chargers - Tyrod Taylor

Phins - Fitz

N.O - Jameis

Giants - Colt Mccoy

Jets - Flacco

Sea - Geno Smith

Tampa - Gabbert

Wash - take your pick of haskins ot smith or allen

Even a team like New England Drafted Stidham becasue the thought he could replace Brady at some point and he flopped, they also have hoyer.

Most backups are retreads from other teams or failed starters.

 

 

 

[JetPotato]

Criminal, you say?

Interesting. I hope he is properly punished. ?

[peebag]

59 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

My rant is over. 

don' t be a pr*ck tease.

[CTM]

56 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I suppose it’s a good sign that Douglas haters have progressed from “every draft pick sucks!” to “uhhhhhh drafting a project QB in the fourth round instead of this OL guy with bad knees was bad!” 

^ jd apologist 

59 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Team that doesn't have a QB drafts a QB.  Outrage ensues.  More on this at 11.

^ his fap monkey 

[dbatesman]

I understand that no one wants to give someone who used the term “Guro” the benefit of the doubt, but OP’s not wrong. Unless they think Morgan has legit starting potential, drafting a QB in the 4th is a dumb use of resources.

[AFJF]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Rounds 1 and 2 are the only premium rounds, to me.  3-5 are the middle rounds where you chase athleticism and upside, not instant gratification.  Rounds 6-7 are a mix of extreme lottery tickets, special teams contributors, and guys you think are likely to be UDFA's, but take them anyways to "get ahead of the game".

Agree to disagree.  Teams should be looking to land potential starters in rounds 1-3.  I've spoken to (and read about) former execs and GM's who say their team's belief was that a player taken in the top 100 should be viewed as a starting player.  Those were their premium rounds. 

Add to that the fact that countless pundits and execs said the 2019 receiver class was one of the deepest ever and those round 4 picks have round 2/3 talent.  Baltimore GM Eric DeCosta said prior to the draft that teams would have a chance to draft starting wide receivers on day 3 this year.  This team would've been much better served to draft somebody like Dotson and/or Gabriel Davis/Tyler Johson types.

I hope the QB3 pans out, but they missed a chance to grab day 1 starters at WR at OL in his place.

 

[section314]

I'll go on record here.....when it's all said and done, James Morgan will have a much longer, successful and productive NFL career than Sam Darnold.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I understand that no one wants to give someone who used the term “Guro” the benefit of the doubt, but OP’s not wrong. Unless they think Morgan has legit starting potential, drafting a QB in the 4th is a dumb use of resources.

And that's why this whole argument is dumb, because people are assuming out of hand that Douglas drafted Morgan thinking he only has a QB2 ceiling, yet cannot present any evidence to suggest that is the case.  

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Cheap veteran backup QB's are cheap for a reason.  They're terrible.  And even Flacco was only as cheap as he was because he wasn't going to be ready for Week 1. 

This is just wrong from a philosophical perspective.  There is EVERY reason to use a midround pick on a project QB.  Why?  Because the upside is enormous.  Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins were 4th rounders.  If a high upside QB ends up working out, you either have your answer at QB OR you have a guy you can flip in a trade for a big haul.  There's only 12-15 guys on the planet at any given time who can play the QB position well at the pro level, making it the most scarce asset you can have.  You HAVE to take chances at QB's in that light, because the potential return on investment is huge.

And what's the downside?  Oh, he's a cheap QB2 for 3-4 seasons?  The horror!  I guess if Morgan doesn't  work out as a QB2, you can certainly call it a wasted pick in the end, but I'm willing to chase the upside there if I'm a GM.  Certainly GM's have whiffed on 4th round picks often enough over the years that it really isn't a big deal if Morgan is a miss.  

You guys are acting like this a black and white, must do strategy situation and it's really not...it's much more fluid.  James Morgan sucks, Hackenberg level #'s in college and he couldnt beat out anyone, to play back up on this team.  Was he significantly better than Webb or White or whoever else they had?  No.   So you didnt draft him to be an immediate back up which would be dumb AF to begin with, you drafted him for hope and in the Jets situation, they needed OL and there was OL available.  They also needed WR's, that too was available.

I get your logic but that doesnt defend that Morgan was a nonsensical pick.  The OP called him out on it for passing on a sh*tty player but the reality is, there were probably a handful of names that the Jets would be much better of with...oh and the fact 2 QB's draft AFTER Morgan, have started a Football game.

All around, JD passed on a lot of OL talent for meh and it's bizarre considering he was considering an "OL guru".

 

[MindOverMatter]

If JD was picking in the Giants spot and we walk away from the 1st round with Andrew Thomas instead of Mekhi Becton, than this argument would hold some weight. Add onto that the giant balls it took to trade down and still draft Mims in the 2nd, and in my opinion we got ourselves a real one in Douglas. When has a Jets rookie ever looked as dominant as Becton? 

Give the guy some time, did anyone really think this team would get turned around in an offseason or two?

[HawkeyeJet]

26 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Ariz: Brett Hunldy (failed in green bay)

Atl - Matt Schaub

Balt - RG3

Buffalo - Matt Barkley

Carolina - UDFA backup

Chicago - Mitch trubisky (drafted to start, flopped)

Clev - Case Keenum

Dallas - Andy Dalton

Detroit  - chase Daniel

Green Bay - Drafted jordan love in the 1st round

Houston  - AJ McCarron

Indy - Jacoby Brissette

Jax - Mike Glennon

KC - Chad Henne

Vegas - Mariota

Chargers - Tyrod Taylor

Phins - Fitz

N.O - Jameis

Giants - Colt Mccoy

Jets - Flacco

Sea - Geno Smith

Tampa - Gabbert

Wash - take your pick of haskins ot smith or allen

Even a team like New England Drafted Stidham becasue the thought he could replace Brady at some point and he flopped, they also have hoyer.

Most backups are retreads from other teams or failed starters.

 

 

 

I thought you were talking about all positions, not just QBs.  My bad. Certain positions definitely have people drafted where they clearly project to be a backup.

I still don't agree that certain QBs aren't picked with the mindset they will be at best solid backups, but I'm sure all GMs look at a QB and say if everything goes right with him, he could start.

[bitonti]

38 minutes ago, Sonny Werblin said:

The rest as to the O line just makes me think that our O line coach sucks.  Guys perform better elsewhere than with the Jets...?  Hmmmm.... I wonder why that could be?

Frank Morgan is a good OL coach. he's not great like Mike Munshak or some sort of visionary like Marc Columbo but the reason why the guys perform better on other teams is because Russell Wilson, Josh Allen and Kyler Murray are 1) more elusive 2) keeping the defenses honest when they blitz 

Darnold has many flaws but the fatal one for me is how happy his feet get when contact is even a possibility. he doesn't step into throws he panics and back foots it. Who would have thought a dude from Dana Point, CA would be charmin soft

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

He's supposed to be some type of "O-Line Guro" but yet he drafted a 5th year project of a QB in James Morgan, out of a small program (FIU), with an NCAA completion percentage within the 50's; and passed up on an awesome Tyler Biadasz (who many of us loved) out of Wisconsin... How does that even... happen?

Tyler Biadasz was selected as a 3rd-team All-Big Ten selection (2017) before developing into an All-Big 10 First-team selection come both years of 2018 and 2019 and Tyler Biadasz also earned the 'Rimington Trophy' last year; which is only awarded to best Center within the Country

(he could've became our next Mawae/Mangold 3.0). 

I'm sorry but Joe Douglas passing on Tyler Biadasz for JAMES MORGAN was and is still absolutely criminal. 

4th round? A premium pick? And you use it on James Morgan? Wow. 

And you know what else frustrates me about this so called "O-Lineman Guro" outside of letting an undrafted WR gem in Robby Anderson hit the open market and selecting James Morgan lol?

Brian Winters is now Buffalo's starting LG for Josh Allen on a 7-2 Bills team. 

Kelvin Beachum is now Arizona's starting RT for Kyler Murray on a 5-3 Cardinals team. 

Brandon Shell is now Seattle's starting RT for Russell Wilson on a 6-2 Seahawks team. 

And in return JD gave us absolute FA O-Line crap in McGovern, Fant and Andrews. 

In closing. I swear. If we finish 0-16 and draft Trevor Lawrence? I want WOODY to bring in a different head coach (someone like Harbaugh) and a brand new GM too (someone who will actually know what to do with all of our available cap space and not pass up on the next Tyler Biadasz @ Center all for the next 4th round QB in "James Morgan" ).  

Becton falling to him was a great pick. Mims was a great pick too. But JD has been an absolute horrible GM thus far (Frank Gore says hello). 

My rant is over. 

Anybody being honest knows all of that to be true.  There are a lot of red-flags with JD right now.  Outside of Becton he's been bad.

Unless, of course, you think he was purposely tanking - then he's been a genius.

[Jetster]

42 minutes ago, David Harris said:

The OP is way off base, and I agree with him.  The Morgan pick was a very bad idea IMO.  However, that is the only pick of the entire draft I didn't like.  After years of Stephen Hill's, Jachai Polite's, and Trevon Wesco's I can't crucify JD for one bad pick in the 4th round. 

 

There were WR and OL contributors available there.  Guys that actually could have helped us.  You can easily sign decent vet backups suck as Flacco, Newton or Simien for cheap money these days.  There's no point in using draft capital and cheap rookie contracts for a backup project QB.

Though it did sound like Belicheck had his eye on Morgan around there.  And looking at their sh*tty QB room that may have made it worth it. 

Maybe, just maybe, Joe Douglas wasn’t sold on Sam Darnold like all of us Jet fans wanting to believe he’d be a FRANCHISE QB. 
They review the film in much more detail than we do. 
Take Flaccos pick. A thread was started on here  thst Gase made the call. Well, based on the tape, why are we blaming the play caller? The play actually worked if the QB makes the CORRECT decision where to go with the ball! 
The TE came open early & might still be running. So while we all criticize here, there are a room full of guys seeing these plays dissected & being made aware of how many mistakes were made on a failed play. 
I haven’t heard much criticism from any players on this team (Herndon?), because plays have been there to be made, from the Oline to the QB, to the RBs, WRs, TEs. 
NFLs about making plays when you have the opportunity. Like Aikman says calling games, “Oh, that play was right there, you gotta make the most of your opportunities”. 
The players have been just as much to blame or maybe more than the coaching staff. 

[Jetster]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Anybody being honest knows all of that to be true.  There are a lot of red-flags with JD right now.  Outside of Becton he's been bad.

Unless, of course, you think he was purposely tanking - then he's been a genius.

Wonk wonk whaaaaah! 

[jgb]

Draft a QB every year until you find one. 4th rounder isn't ridiculous.

[FidelioJet]

Just now, Jetster said:

Wonk wonk whaaaaah! 

I'm actually one that believes he put this garbage out on purpose.  I think JD's been great.  I just see what he's been very good.

The Morgan thing is a bit of a head-scratcher, but I believe at that the time of the draft he had already given up on Sam, so taking a flyer on a 4th round project QB is a reasonable risk worth taking.

[Irish Jet]

It's true. Luxury pick. One we couldn't afford. Perine was even worse though. 

[CTM]

49 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

I understand that no one wants to give someone who used the term “Guro” the benefit of the doubt, but OP’s not wrong. Unless they think Morgan has legit starting potential, drafting a QB in the 4th is a dumb use of resources.

You're a guro

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

Ummmmm Biadasz has been absolutely horrible, like many of us thought he would be.  He gets pushed around easily.

The crime in Morgan is playing Flacco over him.

Where you're allowed to be upset with JD was Davis/Zuniga over Damien Lewis, Lloyd Cushenberry and Solomon Kindley

I 100% wanted Bryan Edwards in the spot where they took Zuinga, but at least they went with a guy with good college production who they believe can get to the quarterback.  But Morgan and Perine?  One will probably never be a starter and the other plays the most easily filled position in the NFL.  Ugh.