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??? Hypothetical draft scenario ???


JTJet

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12 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I think the Jags could be taken for a ride like that. The problem I have is Fields as the backup plan. no one can name a single Ohio State QB that's made in the NFL. Thats spooky to say they least. If we did that trade, I'd keep sam and take Zach Wilson with one of the later 1sts or even the 2nd. 

Fields has the odds stacked against him. 

I'm all team Trevor Lawrence but I hate this train of thought process because there isn't a single NCAA program known as a QB hotbed and they've all produced multiple busts throughout the history of NFL drafts. Especially @ QB. 

Purdue is actually known historically speaking as "Quarterback U" and I don't see any 2021 teams looking to kick their door down for the next Bress. 

With this thought process Mahomes wouldn't be a KC Chiefs QB right now (because of, "Texas Tech") and I haven't found another Tennessee or Notre Dame or Michigan NFL QB since Manning/Montana/Brady etc, etc. 

Vernon Gholston was an Ohio State pass rushing NFL bust but thnx God NFL teams didn't hold VG against the Joey and Nick Bosa brothers...

 

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

That said, these simulators are may be fun, but they are in no way realistic. 

This.

If you're the GM of the Jags, and you have a chance to take Fields at #2 and pour some picks into the roster (i mean, that's why they sold the farm), then you're not going to trade it all away to move up from Fields to TL 

IMO, won't happen. It would have to come from a team at #3-5 and would involve a lot of future picks... which is not as attractive cause you're likely losing out on TL and Fields... that's a gamble no team will take after going 0-16. 

TL will be the pick unless Fields runs the tables somehow

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4 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This.

If you're the GM of the Jags, and you have a chance to take Fields at #2 and pour some picks into the roster (i mean, that's why they sold the farm), then you're not going to trade it all away to move up from Fields to TL 

IMO, won't happen. It would have to come from a team at #3-5 and would involve a lot of future picks... which is not as attractive cause you're likely losing out on TL and Fields... that's a gamble no team will take after going 0-16. 

TL will be the pick unless Fields runs the tables somehow

Good post except I don’t think there is any suspense in who #1 will be. If Trevor Lawrence doesn’t suffer a serious, career altering injury and doesn’t get accused of some terrible crime before the draft, he’s the guy. 
 

Put in the context of self interest, if a GM selects Lawrence at #1 and Fields turns out better, he can survive that. Select Fields over Lawrence and Lawrence is better? You’d be a punchline for 50 years.

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2 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I'm all team Trevor Lawrence but I hate this train of thought process because there isn't a single NCAA program known as a QB hotbed and they've all produced multiple busts throughout the history of NFL drafts. Especially @ QB. 

Purdue is actually known historically speaking as "Quarterback U" and I don't see any 2021 teams looking to kick their door down for the next Bress. 

With this thought process Mahomes wouldn't be a KC Chiefs QB right now (because of, "Texas Tech") and I haven't found another Tennessee or Notre Dame or Michigan NFL QB since Manning/Montana/Brady etc, etc. 

 

 

This is so true. The knock on Mahomes was that the “air raid” QBs weren’t successful in the NFL. Made no sense as Goff was the #1 Pick a year earlier coming from an air raid system. 
 

Ohio State wasn’t attracting top QB recruits under Tressel because they were a run first team. Urban Meyer actually had Joe Burrow in his program, but preferred JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins. 
 

Since Ryan Day has come in Ohio State is going to get top QB recruits like Fields. His system is QB friendly much like Oklahoma. 

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8 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I'm all team Trevor Lawrence but I hate this train of thought process because there isn't a single NCAA program known as a QB hotbed and they've all produced multiple busts throughout the history of NFL drafts. Especially @ QB. 

Purdue is actually known historically speaking as "Quarterback U" and I don't see any 2021 teams looking to kick their door down for the next Bress. 

With this thought process Mahomes wouldn't be a KC Chiefs QB right now (because of, "Texas Tech") and I haven't found another Tennessee or Notre Dame or Michigan NFL QB since Manning/Montana/Brady etc, etc. 

Vernon Gholston was an Ohio State pass rushing NFL bust but thnx God NFL teams didn't hold VG against the Joey and Nick Bosa brothers...

 

 

It's important to consider program when looking at a QB.  Comparing an edge rusher to previous players is significantly different. There are numerous variables to consider when selecting where to take someone. Especially QB.  The fact remains that Ohio State has not had one.  While so many of their players end up being studs in the NFL, not QB. The most recent QB, Dwayne Haskins was the top of an historically thin class at the position. He would have been a 2nd or 3rd in 2017 and he's all but done after 1 season in Washington. 

It's a concern. not that it can't be overcome if the player's talent is able to supersede the concern, but not considering it would be foolish. 

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17 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I'm all team Trevor Lawrence but I hate this train of thought process because there isn't a single NCAA program known as a QB hotbed and they've all produced multiple busts throughout the history of NFL drafts. Especially @ QB. 

Purdue is actually known historically speaking as "Quarterback U" and I don't see any 2021 teams looking to kick their door down for the next Bress. 

With this thought process Mahomes wouldn't be a KC Chiefs QB right now (because of, "Texas Tech") and I haven't found another Tennessee or Notre Dame or Michigan NFL QB since Manning/Montana/Brady etc, etc. 

Vernon Gholston was an Ohio State pass rushing NFL bust but thnx God NFL teams didn't hold VG against the Joey and Nick Bosa brothers...

 

 You made some good points here. I usually crack bad jokes but I want to ask you a question in all seriousness. I don't really put a lot of stock into stats and I don't think big school small school really matters. I think it's about character, attitude, and adaptability. Obviously they're all world-class athletes.

So my question is out of Sam Darnold, Trevor Lawrence, Justin fields, and Zach Miller who do you think is more suited to lead the Jets?

I've tried to make this point many times. I think coming to New York for some of these guys is such a culture shock, it takes a certain type of person especially at a young age to handle it. You seem to know a lot about college ball so I just want your opinion.

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1 hour ago, Paradis said:

there's sense in this statement -- but there's also the matter of making whatever "perceived" advantage you get w/ TL, reduced to zero..

Maybe a better way to say that--

Fields + FOUR Top 50 players >>> Trevor Lawrence.

IMO he's not that much better than Fields.

Agreed - except the presence of Fields in this draft makes it really unlikely to me that the Jags would contemplate such a deal to begin with.

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45 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

 

It's important to consider program when looking at a QB.  Comparing an edge rusher to previous players is significantly different. There are numerous variables to consider when selecting where to take someone. Especially QB.  The fact remains that Ohio State has not had one.  While so many of their players end up being studs in the NFL, not QB. The most recent QB, Dwayne Haskins was the top of an historically thin class at the position. He would have been a 2nd or 3rd in 2017 and he's all but done after 1 season in Washington. 

It's a concern. not that it can't be overcome if the player's talent is able to supersede the concern, but not considering it would be foolish. 

Ok. But I bet you can't name me your top 5 NCAA Football Programs who produce awesome future NFL QB's on a consistent basis; without me absolutely destroying those top 5 QB U's into pieces of busts after busts...

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1 hour ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

 You made some good points here. I usually crack bad jokes but I want to ask you a question in all seriousness. I don't really put a lot of stock into stats and I don't think big school small school really matters. I think it's about character, attitude, and adaptability. Obviously they're all world-class athletes.

So my question is out of Sam Darnold, Trevor Lawrence, Justin fields, and Zach Miller who do you think is more suited to lead the Jets?

I've tried to make this point many times. I think coming to New York for some of these guys is such a culture shock, it takes a certain type of person especially at a young age to handle it. You seem to know a lot about college ball so I just want your opinion.

I think it's Trevor Lawrence due to his ability to thrive throughout media coverage and #1 rated pressure for a long time now. Without ever failing under pressure of the bright lights. 

With Sam Darnold? He was a converted High School Linebacker who in middle school was still learning how to tackle (which is why I believe he still to this day struggles to read defenses due to a late start @ the position). Which is why Sam was an absolute fumbling machine @ QB in HS, a fumbling/INT machine @ USC and then a fumbling/int/turnover machine with our Jets. 

When in comparison to Trevor Lawrence who's parents had him a paid professional QB trainer while he was only in middle school. Trevor still to this day is the only middle school kid of his home town to ever practice with his soon to be Varsity H.S football team; while only in middle school (and immediately began to destroy those H.S kids). 

There are only 2 QB's to ever complete the #1 rated trifecta of 1.) Rated as the #1 H.S player within the Country. 2.) Rated as the #1 NCAA player within the Nation before 3.) Being drafted #1 overall into the NFL. Those two players were John Elway and Peyton Manning (not even Luck qualifies); and Trevor will only become the 3rd. 

Nothing has ever been able to crack or break this kid. He's 76-1 dating back to his previous 77 games dating back to HS and he was even a hometown HERO before he played his 1st H.S snap. First and only True Freshman to ever win a National Championship Game (straight out of HS since dating back to 35 years ago of 1985 (the year i was born). 

If anyone is built for #1 overall and NY media pressure I believe in my heart that it's Trevor Lawrence, just watch this video of him below...

He's truly made for the spotlight (he thrives within it). 

He's the definition of a Generational phenom because I'm sorry but KIDS like this don't come around all that often. 

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8 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I think it's Trevor Lawrence due to his ability to thrive throughout media coverage and #1 rated pressure for a long time now. Without ever failing under pressure of the bright lights. 

With Sam Darnold? He was a converted High School Linebacker who in middle school was still learning how to tackle (which is why I believe he still to this day struggles to read defenses due to a late start @ the position). Which is why Sam was an absolute fumbling machine @ QB in HS, a fumbling/INT machine @ USC and then a fumbling/int/turnover machine with our Jets. 

When in comparison to Trevor Lawrence who's parents had him a paid professional QB trainer while he was only in middle school. Trevor still to this day is the only middle school kid of his home town to ever practice with his soon to be Varsity H.S football team; while only in middle school (and immediately began to destroy those H.S kids). 

There are only 2 QB's to ever complete the #1 rated trifecta of 1.) Rated as the #1 H.S player within the Country. 2.) Rated as the #1 NCAA player within the Nation before 3.) Being drafted #1 overall into the NFL. Those two players were John Elway and Peyton Manning (not even Luck qualifies); and Trevor will only become the 3rd. 

Nothing has ever been able to crack or break this kid. He's 76-1 dating back to his previous 77 games dating back to HS and he was even a hometown HERO before he played his 1st H.S snap. First and only True Freshman to ever win a National Championship Game (straight out of HS since dating back to 35 years ago of 1985 (the year i was born). 

If anyone is built for #1 overall and NY media pressure I believe in my heart that it's Trevor Lawrence, just watch this video of him below...

He's truly made for the spotlight (he thrives within it). 

He's the definition of a Generational phenom because I'm sorry but KIDS like this don't come around all that often. 

I’d rather trade the pick and draft Kyle Trask, Zach Wilson, or Trey Lance with Seattle’s #1. 
 

Jamarr Chase and Denzel Mims or Mehki Becton and Penei Sewell would be nice pieces to build an offense around. 

Dump Flacco and bring in Jamies Winston (Trevor Lawrence 5 years ago) to compete with Sam Darnold (Trevor Lawrence 3 years ago) and the rookie. 

Surrounding a young QB with good players-a novel idea. It may work. 

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15 minutes ago, GreekJet said:


 

Jamarr Chase and Denzel Mims or Mehki Becton and Penei Sewell would be nice pieces to build an offense around. 

 

Surrounding a young QB with good players-a novel idea. It may work. 

Trevor Lawrence, Mekhi Becton, Allen Robinson (or JuJu) and Denzel Mims would also become a nice piece to build an offense around, too. 

And plz don't ever compare "Sam Darnold" to Trevor Lawrence as prospects coming out, ever again; because Trevor is 10x the prospect Sam ever was and Trevor's accomplishments and statistical production destroys Sam within each and every statistical Quarterbacking category known to man kind. 

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1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Trevor Lawrence, Mekhi Becton, Allen Robinson (or JuJu) and Denzel Mims would also become a nice piece to build an offense around, too. 

And plz don't ever compare "Sam Darnold" to Trevor Lawrence as prospects coming out, ever again; because Trevor is 10x the prospect Sam ever was and Trevor's accomplishments and statistical production destroys Sam within each and every statistical Quarterbacking category known to man kind. 

I love Sam and even I have to agree with this.

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4 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Trevor Lawrence, Mekhi Becton, Allen Robinson (or JuJu) and Denzel Mims would also become a nice piece to build an offense around, too. 

And plz don't ever compare "Sam Darnold" to Trevor Lawrence as prospects coming out, ever again; because Trevor is 10x the prospect Sam ever was and Trevor's accomplishments and statistical production destroys Sam within each and every statistical Quarterbacking category known to man kind. 

Lawrence is a better prospect than Peyton Manning not to mention Darnold 

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15 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Understood but it needs to be a no brainer for the Jets. A ‘22 isn’t worth passing on TL. I don’t do that deal then

If Fields wasn't looking as good as he is, I would agree but according to what people are saying, he might be outplaying Lawrence at this point. If they pick 2nd, they probably just stay there and take Fields without offering for Lawrence. If we were to change slots, it is probably the at best a 2022 first and nothing more but because the pick would be Fields, they will not want to offer future draft capital so they can build around him. There will be a lot of deals that can be made and big ones. I hope JD takes one of them. Every season there is a great college QB to be drafted. What is another season when the Jets are still such a mess

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10 hours ago, JTJet said:

Yeah the Trev people gonna Trev, simple as that. 

But the simulator gave me the offer, and I said let's see where it goes. 

That is a HUGE haul that leaves us with 3 first rounders in 2022 as well. I think responsible GMs would consider it. 

I'm not with one or the other QB just yet, so the trade would be fine with me, however you don't have a Center or an OG within the 1st 5 picks, so already that's a failed draft. Not sure why people don't seem to understand that if your foundation is weak, you can't build upon it until you sturdy it up.... And that's not saying your draft is a bad one. 

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10 hours ago, JTJet said:

Yeah the Trev people gonna Trev, simple as that. 

But the simulator gave me the offer, and I said let's see where it goes. 

That is a HUGE haul that leaves us with 3 first rounders in 2022 as well. I think responsible GMs would consider it. 

Don't think the dig was necessary, is it that unfathomable that some -- the majority even -- have a strong preference for Trevor over Fields based on football reasons?

But, I do like hypotheticals and while agreeing that a responsible GM would consider it, I don't think a responsible GM would offer it in the Jaguar's present situation.

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8 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

I'm not with one or the other QB just yet, so the trade would be fine with me, however you don't have a Center or an OG within the 1st 5 picks, so already that's a failed draft. Not sure why people don't seem to understand that if your foundation is weak, you can't build upon it until you sturdy it up.... And that's not saying your draft is a bad one. 

Again, go back and re read the post. 

I took what the draft gave me. Just assume that we filled C and OG through FA and made them less of a priority. 

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9 hours ago, jgb said:

I swear some people are more concerned with Woody's P&L statement than he is. Before we start wringing hands over extension costs, let's get some talent in here worthy of extending.

Geez Loeeze! A guy throws out a farcical post and you would think I am a collaborator with Putin himself. You all need to get a sensed of humor.... you take this way too seriously.

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Don't think the dig was necessary, is it that unfathomable that some -- the majority even -- have a strong preference for Trevor over Fields based on football reasons?

But, I do like hypotheticals and while agreeing that a responsible GM would consider it, I don't think a responsible GM would offer it in the Jaguar's present situation.

Im one of the people that not only have a strong preference for Trev, but kind of want to avoid Fields like the plague, and just because he is an Ohio State QB. 

Wasn't a dig at you, but do consider there are a lot of people that just want the big ticket QB without any thought to just how bad off our team is at other positions. 

Honestly, QB is about the 3rd or 4th area of need. Edge, Wr, Cb still are much greater needs and have been for awhile. 

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7 hours ago, GreekJet said:

There are only 2 QB's to ever complete the #1 rated trifecta of 1.) Rated as the #1 H.S player within the Country. 2.) Rated as the #1 NCAA player within the Nation before 3.) Being drafted #1 overall into the NFL. Those two players were John Elway and Peyton Manning (not even Luck qualifies); and Trevor will only become the 3rd. 

Nothing has ever been able to crack or break this kid. He's 76-1 dating back to his previous 77 games dating back to HS and he was even a hometown HERO before he played his 1st H.S snap.

Interesting, I did not know about the trifecta rankings, so that's cool. 

I have to wonder though, and this is a big deal in the pros... how will he react to losing? It's going to happen, especially early. 

In real life, the majority of people that never face adversity have a hard time dealing when finally confronted with it. 

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8 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Ok. But I bet you can't name me your top 5 NCAA Football Programs who produce awesome future NFL QB's on a consistent basis; without me absolutely destroying those top 5 QB U's into pieces of busts after busts...

lol True, But when a program, especially as noteworthy as Ohio State can't produce 1 QB who has done anything in the NFL, that's worth considering. 

I was speaking with a die hard OSU fan (and internet content creator) about the programs QBs and he, as a fan of the program agreed that taking an OSU Qb that early with everything on the line for the Jets would be a mistake. Fields may be different, but the track record is undeniable. 

Now, if that's the case I don't know. But Its something that should be included in the process. It's like USC Qbs.  I didn't like Sam all that much coming out due to his mechanics, TOs and especially his university. I don't know. Maybe that's not real but taking another USC Qb as our franchise QB seemed foolish to me. I know one player doesn't make another player good or bad, but it's just something that goes through my mind. Ultimately I was on board and excited to have Sam. I don't want to make it like I was on the right side of that one, but It's interesting to consider. 

These are the things I look at in addition to production, make up etc. I'm not all that in love with Analytics as the primary evaluation tool.  But then again, I'm old. 

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10 hours ago, GREENBEAN said:

I think the Jags could be taken for a ride like that. The problem I have is Fields as the backup plan. no one can name a single Ohio State QB that's made in the NFL. Thats spooky to say they least. If we did that trade, I'd keep sam and take Zach Wilson with one of the later 1sts or even the 2nd. 

Fields has the odds stacked against him. 

What OSU QB would you have expected to "make it" in the NFL based on where they were drafted?

Haskins is the only OSU QB drafted in tbe last 40 years or so that would have been drafted in a spot where they were expected to be the starter for their NFL team.  But even you say he was actually a 2nd or 3rd RD talent.

That's like saying Iowa QBs shouldn't be trusted in the NFL because the ones drafted to be backups performed like backups.

What BYU QB is making you comfortable with their history of QBs enough to take Zach Wilson.

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20 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What OSU QB would you have expected to "make it" in the NFL based on where they were drafted?

Haskins is the only OSU QB drafted in tbe last 40 years or so that would have been drafted in a spot where they were expected to be the starter for their NFL team.  But even you say he was actually a 2nd or 3rd RD talent.

That's like saying Iowa QBs shouldn't be trusted in the NFL because the ones drafted to be backups performed like backups.

What BYU QB is making you comfortable with their history of QBs enough to take Zach Wilson.

I don't think I'm saying that I like Wilson more than Fields. It's more about where I would take either of them. In truth I haven't done my deep dive into the prospects yet so I may think entirely different in a month or two but I have standard lines of thinking that are always included. Previous positional NFL success is one of them.  

BYU produced Steve Young and I believe some others. I'd have to look and I can't right now. Obviously any school can produce anything and it doesn't necessarily have to do with previous players from that program. All I'm really saying is it's something to consider Especially when you're talking about passing on TLaw to grab Fields or even simply using a #2 overall pick to take a guy. 

The point about Wilson is it might be smarter (Im not sure yet) to take Ja'marr Chase or Penei Sewell and grab WIlson later over taking Fields and the 5th or 6th WR later.   

Ya dig? :) 

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33 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

What OSU QB would you have expected to "make it" in the NFL based on where they were drafted?

Haskins is the only OSU QB drafted in tbe last 40 years or so that would have been drafted in a spot where they were expected to be the starter for their NFL team.  But even you say he was actually a 2nd or 3rd RD talent.

That's like saying Iowa QBs shouldn't be trusted in the NFL because the ones drafted to be backups performed like backups.

What BYU QB is making you comfortable with their history of QBs enough to take Zach Wilson.

Is this a joke? I can't tell. 

You realize Jim McMahon and Steve Young came from BYU right? Theres a handful of Superbowls between them. 

Consider this, Ty Detmer came from BYU and he had more success than any Ohio State QB ever drafted. 

The argument is generally that Ohio State QBs are surrounded with literally the best talent in college other than a couple programs, if Zach Wilson is rocketing up draft boards, it ain't because BYU is loaded with talent. 

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4 minutes ago, GREENBEAN said:

I don't think I'm saying that I like Wilson more than Fields. It's more about where I would take either of them. In truth I haven't done my deep dive into the prospects yet so I may think entirely different in a month or two but I have standard lines of thinking that are always included. Previous positional NFL success is one of them.  

BYU produced Steve Young and I believe some others. I'd have to look and I can't right now. Obviously any school can produce anything and it doesn't necessarily have to do with previous players from that program. All I'm really saying is it's something to consider Especially when you're talking about passing on TLaw to grab Fields or even simply using a #2 overall pick to take a guy. 

The point about Wilson is it might be smarter (Im not sure yet) to take Ja'marr Chase or Penei Sewell and grab WIlson later over taking Fields and the 5th or 6th WR later.   

Ya dig? :) 

Jinx lol. 

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