Pierre Desir Released

[peebag]

16 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

This is just a bad optic. If they're letting the kids play then start Morgan not Joe Frankenstein Flacco.

And the photo below is absolutely real look it up on Bing! It says the Jets are a pop warner youth football team playing in the NFL.

Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue!

Just type in New York Jets!

That's an insult to all Pop Warner teams.

[Doggin94it]

4 hours ago, JiF said:

McGovern has been nothing short of a disaster.  GVR has been ok and Fant is not good.   And yes, I prefer signing players who, like, dont suck because adding good players is better than adding bad players.

Fant has been absolutely fine. As of the Cardinals game, his pressure allowed rate was only 4%, which would place him 19/57 qualified OTs (i.e. in the top half of the league as a pass blocker). Could he be upgraded? Sure. Is an upgrade at RT in the top 10 list of Jets needs? No.

[HessStation]

4 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

We signed him to a 1 year 4M deal. That's not big ticket.

But this is pure "let the kids play" - and it forces a coaching staff that was still trotting out the vet to do the right thing. 

He was signed to be a starter my point. Dude was a disaster. My worry is It helps the team having him gone 

[JustInFudge]

35 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Fant has been absolutely fine. As of the Cardinals game, his pressure allowed rate was only 4%, which would place him 19/57 qualified OTs (i.e. in the top half of the league as a pass blocker). Could he be upgraded? Sure. Is an upgrade at RT in the top 10 list of Jets needs? No.

Interesting.  How his run blocking?  because unless your QB is lefty, that's probably the more valuable stat for a RT.

 

[Wonderboy]

22 hours ago, Jetsfan1015 said:

And people say Douglas is all in on the tank. If he was, he would keep the worst corner in the NFL.

Rumor is they are upgrading the tank by bringing back Dee Miliner

[Greenbloodblitz]

4 hours ago, peebag said:

That's an insult to all Pop Warner teams.

Lmao

[joewilly12]

2 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Rumor is they are upgrading the tank by bringing back Dee Miliner

And Kyle Wilson. 

The NY Jets have more 1st round picks on the street than any team in the NFL. 

[Wonderboy]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

And Kyle Wilson. 

The NY Jets have more 1st round picks on the street than any team in the NFL. 

The all dud #1 pick bust team of all time. 
Milner

Wilson

Pryor

Darnold

Gholston

feel free to add on

[joewilly12]

Just now, Wonderboy said:

The all dud #1 pick bust team of all time. 
Milner

Wilson

Pryor

Darnold

Gholston

feel free to add on

Robertson 

Coples 

Wilkerson 

Thomas

[Doggin94it]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

Interesting.  How his run blocking?  because unless your QB is lefty, that's probably the more valuable stat for a RT.

 

Not these days; Defenses no longer line up good pass rushers solely on the blind side, so RT pass blocking has become much more important. But yeah, he could be a better run blocker. 

Pass blocking is still the more valuable stat given how much more valuable passing is than running in today's NFL. Give me a choice between a RT who is a very good pass blocker and mediocre run blocker or one who is a mediocre pass blocker and a very good run blocker, I'll take the former every time

[Thai Jet]

3 hours ago, HessStation said:

He was signed to be a starter my point. Dude was a disaster. My worry is It helps the team having him gone 

Yet he did have 3 picks and 8 PD in half a year. 

[Wonderboy]

7 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Robertson 

Coples 

Wilkerson 

Thomas

Ugh ??‍♂️ 

[Wonderboy]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Robertson 

Coples 

Wilkerson 

Thomas

 Nobody busts better than the Jets

[JetPotato]

IN CASE ANYONE WAS WONDERING 

PIERRE DESIR LEADS THE JETS IN INTERCEPRIONS WITH THREE.

ALSO

PIERRE DESIR HAS MORE INTERCEPTIONS THIS YEAR THAN JAMAL ADAMS HAS IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

Enjoy.

[Jetster]

12 hours ago, JetPotato said:

IN CASE ANYONE WAS WONDERING 

PIERRE DESIR LEADS THE JETS IN INTERCEPRIONS WITH THREE.

ALSO

PIERRE DESIR HAS MORE INTERCEPTIONS THIS YEAR THAN JAMAL ADAMS HAS IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

Enjoy.

Pierre Desir also started trotting around giving up on plays, playing 20 yards off the LOS, and basically mailing it in! I told you guys when they look at the film of that Patriots game he was a GONER. Talk about a guy with no heart. I don't give a sh*t if your 0-9, if your a player bouncing around the league you play to the whistle in every game, if you don't then your OK with the few million you have & that security took away your drive to succeed. 

What he did last Monday was a slap to every guy out there that was busting their azzes for 60 minutes. Surprised he wasn't punched in the face by a teammate. 

[JetPotato]

20 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Pierre Desir also started trotting around giving up on plays, playing 20 yards off the LOS, and basically mailing it in! I told you guys when they look at the film of that Patriots game he was a GONER. Talk about a guy with no heart. I don't give a sh*t if your 0-9, if your a player bouncing around the league you play to the whistle in every game, if you don't then your OK with the few million you have & that security took away your drive to succeed. 

What he did last Monday was a slap to every guy out there that was busting their azzes for 60 minutes. Surprised he wasn't punched in the face by a teammate. 

So you're saying a guy that WASN'T EVEN TRYING still had more INTs in half a season than Jamal Adams has had in his career. 

Great point.

[Dunnie]

Tank.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

[JustInFudge]

13 hours ago, JetPotato said:

IN CASE ANYONE WAS WONDERING 

PIERRE DESIR LEADS THE JETS IN INTERCEPRIONS WITH THREE.

ALSO

PIERRE DESIR HAS MORE INTERCEPTIONS THIS YEAR THAN JAMAL ADAMS HAS IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER.

Enjoy.

[Fantasy Island]

And yet Gase remains

 

[Sperm Edwards]

19 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Fant has been absolutely fine. As of the Cardinals game, his pressure allowed rate was only 4%, which would place him 19/57 qualified OTs (i.e. in the top half of the league as a pass blocker). Could he be upgraded? Sure. Is an upgrade at RT in the top 10 list of Jets needs? No.

In fairness, some of that stat is always suspect with a * when the player is on a bad line. Often it merely means another teammate’s poor blocking led to even-earlier applied pressure (if not surrendering a sack outright) than his own.

It’s further suspect because he’s not typically lined up against the defense’s top edge rusher yet he’s being measured up against LT assignments as a RT.

Line him up on the blind side every week - and don’t grade on a curve by conveniently erasing his bad games - and see if he’s still 19/57. Seems doubtful, on top of the extreme curve-grading by whiting out half the season’s performance. And why, because he handled Shaq Lawson while he lined up at LT? Including his 2 sacks, has Lawson pressured the QB even 5 times this year?

Case in point: I bet Beachum - the player he replaced - who fit the bill nicely as a sure starter RT who was a credible placeholder LT heading into the draft, is also in that top half. And that’s without having to qualify the stat by not counting the first half of the season, seeing how he hasn’t allowed a sack all year at RT. 

[Sperm Edwards]

With all the cap room they had, and the extreme need to upgrade the OL, it was malpractice to not do what it takes to sign the best possible upgrade in Conklin - whom many (if not most) predicted/linked to the Jets before FA began - and it only makes it worse that he signed for $5MM/year less than anticipated while Douglas refused to even match that lower-than-expected Browns offer. If money was a factor - and it seems it was - then this is where you start to look back at signings like Kalil’s $8.4MM.

But hey, he got Seattle’s backup RT for only $9.1MM/year; the $4.9MM/year cap savings between them freed him up to then sign...nobody. Crazer still is if Fant is replaced in 2021 then his 1 year cost will have been at Conklin’s $14MM/yr rate. Freaking Beachum is having a better season than Fant, was the same pre-draft insurance if 4 tackles were off the board by #11, and his $1MM cap charge is a tiny fraction of Fant’s $9MM average (and even less still than Fant’s $13.7MM fully guaranteed amount). That’s without considering he’s surely more of a locker room leader than Fant.

As much as most of us are between hopeful of, and outright liking, his 2020 draft class (minus the wasted 4th string QB pick) Douglas had a pretty terrible FA period. And what’s so terrible the 2 best players he didn’t sign/re-sign - Conklin and Anderson - were easy no-brainers for amateur/armchair GMs, given how barren the team was at T and WR. Both are crushing it this season while JD’s signings are most definitely not. Douglas has already publicly acknowledged he sh*t the bed on not extending the latter, and surely senses the same non-signing on the former as well (though he’s not going to admit it while Fant is still starting, and is a favorite be a starter again in 2021).

I’m still hopeful Douglas can be a top GM - based on his past associations, reputation, and what might be a strong first draft class - but his veteran signings and non-signings aren’t yet noticeably better than Maccagnan’s (other than they’re probably cheaper, since JD wasn’t in job-saving mode).

[Rangers9]

There is little doubt that overall he was terrible. But who are you going to get at this date in the season to replace him. At least he has some veteran experience and is capable of catching a ball thrown in his direction. I wonder if Williams was on board with this decision. I guess so since we haven't heard anything from him.

[#27TheDominator]

I agree with much of your posts, but I will comment on the last paragraph of each

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Case in point: I bet Beachum - the player he replaced - who fit the bill nicely as a sure starter RT who was a credible placeholder LT heading into the draft, is also in that top half. And that’s without having to qualify the stat by not counting the first half of the season, seeing how he hasn’t allowed a sack all year at RT. 

I think the argument is that Beachum is more LT only than Fant.  Fant is a physical freak.  Beachum is more a smaller move-y type guy that does not really provide push in the run game.  If their production is even remotely similar you stick with Fant who is younger and has way more upside.  

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I’m still hopeful Douglas can be a top GM - based on his past associations, reputation, and what might be a strong first draft class - but his veteran signings and non-signings aren’t yet noticeably better than Maccagnan’s (other than they’re probably cheaper, since JD wasn’t in job-saving mode).

Why was Maccagnan in job saving mode in 2015?  He signed a ton of bad contracts his first year.  The Trumaine Johnson abomination was made in 2018.  Was Maccagnan on the hot seat?  He still got two full drafts and to hire a coach after that disaster.  He consistently fell into sign this beast mode, going after aging guys like Forte.  Paying Fitzpatrick our of fear, drawing a line in the sand and then hopping over it.  Was he in job saving mode when he gave the notoriously lazy Wilkerson that huge deal coming off a broken leg? 

Douglas may be guilty of cheaping out, but Maccagnan's stupid signings long predated his job being in jeopardy.  Maybe you can blame Bell on that, but not much else.  The hope with Douglas is that there is a method to his madness.  If the cap drops the Jets will be well situated to scoop up bargains.  If he is just cheap we may be screwed.

[#27TheDominator]

22 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

There is little doubt that overall he was terrible. But who are you going to get at this date in the season to replace him. At least he has some veteran experience and is capable of catching a ball thrown in his direction. I wonder if Williams was on board with this decision. I guess so since we haven't heard anything from him.

Hall is off the injured list.  Presumably they want to get him more snaps.  They need to learn what they have in the Lamar Jackson, Corey Ballentine and Javelin Gujdrys of the world.  Or more importantly what they don't have.  The timing is a bit odd, coming the same day that Poole goes on IR.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I agree with much of your posts, but I will comment on the last paragraph of each

I think the argument is that Beachum is more LT only than Fant.  Fant is a physical freak.  Beachum is more a smaller move-y type guy that does not really provide push in the run game.  If their production is even remotely similar you stick with Fant who is younger and has way more upside.  

Why was Maccagnan in job saving mode in 2015?  He signed a ton of bad contracts his first year.  The Trumaine Johnson abomination was made in 2018.  Was Maccagnan on the hot seat?  He still got two full drafts and to hire a coach after that disaster.  He consistently fell into sign this beast mode, going after aging guys like Forte.  Paying Fitzpatrick our of fear, drawing a line in the sand and then hopping over it.  Was he in job saving mode when he gave the notoriously lazy Wilkerson that huge deal coming off a broken leg? 

Douglas may be guilty of cheaping out, but Maccagnan's stupid signings long predated his job being in jeopardy.  Maybe you can blame Bell on that, but not much else.  The hope with Douglas is that there is a method to his madness.  If the cap drops the Jets will be well situated to scoop up bargains.  If he is just cheap we may be screwed.

I hear you, but IMO Fant was a hedge with upside. But while Fant may have more upside, they signed him to a proven starter contract even though he kept getting demoted in Seattle. Fant was no more of a physical freak in March 2020 than he'd been in any prior year that his knee was intact. In the most recent prior year he got outright beaten by Ifedi in head-to-head preseason competition for the job. Ifedi, like Beachum, makes the veteran minimum this year. Fant was not a 10-fold upgrade over Beachum, meh that Beachum is. Likely not Ifedi either.

Also I think age is only a factor when someone's showing signs of age; not so much when you're talking about players who essentially are guaranteed just the upcoming season. But if age is the deciding factor, even if there's a premium to pay for a player, Conklin is a couple years younger than Fant, plus he has top 10 draft pick pedigree and pro bowl honors on his CV, and never lost a starting job to a healthy player who makes the league minimum the following season.

As far as Macc in 2015, that's neither here nor there compared to Macc after 2015. If you're waiting for me to explain the method to his stupidity you'll be waiting a good while. When he went to the FA well, too many signings were names with pricetags that outmatched their recent past & expected-future performances (Harris, Cromartie, Forte, T.Johnson, and too many others to mention). 

The thing with Fant is his pricetag falls into that category. He was previously a backup with starting experience, but that starting experience was only when the real starter was injured. That he couldn't earn a starting job over Ifedi in 2019, yet got 10x the contract after the season, is a head-scratcher. If it's all about upside, Ifedi should have more upside on paper than Fant. 

In other words, if he wanted a bargain with upside, then Ifedi fit that bill more than Fant. If he was willing to pay for a sure thing, then Conklin fit more than Fant. I don't understand the hedge, especially seeing how the the latter non-Fant option wasn't such a huge contract in retrospect. FFS I'd rather he re-signed Beachum and signed Conklin and still took Becton. Beachum, being on a vet min contract, would be a non-factor money-wise and frankly cheaper than most backup tackles so the re-signing would have been justified as that alone.

I don't know that he's cheap. I think what happened is, like probably a lot of GMs (new GMs at that) he wanted to show he was better/smarter than those GMs who just paid for the top player because they couldn't judge talent like he can. That's great if you are gifted at finding cheapy players and they truly pan out. Not so much when the conventional wisdom was the smarter route. 

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not quoting @Sperm Edwards because wall of text is wall of text.  I pretty much agree.  I think Fant is a hedge with upside. 

I agree about the age, but you do need to consider when guys are reaching the point where they fall off a cliff.  They may feel that Beachum at 31 is right at the edge of that cliff, while Fant at 28 should at least last his contract. 

Ifedi and Fant are an interesting comparison.  I don't think there is any shame in losing your job to Duane Brown.  I think that Ifedi and Fant were fairly evenly matched and opinions varied.  I personally would have bet on Fant, so I can't kill Douglas for doing the same.  OTOH, I can understand you or the board killing both of us (or either) over it.

Regarding Maccagnan, we don't have to recount his horrors.  We were both here bitching.  My point was that the guy made a bunch of high dollar mistakes very early on when there was no reason to make a play to save his job.  Douglas on the other hand has several good reasons to be frugal this offseason.  Were those the actual reasons?  Who the **** knows?  Will he make intelligent choices when he actually starts spending?  Also, no ******* idea, but there is hope.