Wirfs rated higher then Becton

[HessStation]

Imagine having a rookie QB and WR in the top 10?? Boners for Bengal fans!!!! 
 

....just keep losing just keep losing just keep losing 

[varjet]

24 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

 

Very impressive.  That is also how Winters trains.  Does not really work for him either.

It is clear to me that Becton works very hard.  I think keeping NFL players on the field is a science that needs to be prescribed for the players.  Bowles’ teams were relatively injury free.  Gase’s teams, Miami and here, have been terrible on injuries. 

We all know this needs to be fixed.  Let’s see what the Jets do this off season.   Last season Melody retired and was replaced by the guy below him.  That does not appear to be working.  

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Imagine having a rookie QB and WR in the top 10?? Boners for Bengal fans!!!! 
 

....just keep losing just keep losing just keep losing 

Mims could be that guy for us, he really could. You can just see it on the field. I hope I'm right too because I just traded Marquise "Hollywood" Brown and Malcom Brown for Laviska Shenault Jr and Mims in one of my dynasty leagues.

[Scott Dierking]

6 minutes ago, varjet said:

Very impressive.  That is also how Winters trains.  Does not really work for him either.

It is clear to me that Becton works very hard.  I think keeping NFL players on the field is a science that needs to be prescribed for the players.  Bowles’ teams were relatively injury free.  Gase’s teams, Miami and her, have been terrible on injuries. 

We all know this needs to be fixed.  Let’s see what the Jets do this off season.   Last season Melody retired and was replaced by the guy below him.  That does not appear to be working.  

I was just countering your supposed opinion that Becton is soft in training. Truth is, we don't have much of an idea. I do know that he did shed some weight, and that probably involved some hard work.

I choose to believe that Becton has yet to fully understand what it means to "play hurt" in the NFL. The NFL did not have a training camp this year, and that may have retarded some of the NFL maturity that a veteran may have been able to nurture him with. Not even sure who that may be on the Jets offensive line (McGovern?) Someone should be in his ear. Frank Pollack (o-line coach)  should be able to relay this as well. 

If this tendency persists into next year, then there is a real problem. I am just glad that we are not using the terms "Jet first round draft pick" and "bust" together in the same sentences for the first time in a seeming long time.

[kevinc855]

50 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Keep in mind here... The Jets are orchestrating the most professional and comprehensive tank job since the Colts ran the SUCK FOR LUCK campaign.  

If the Jets had real designs on winning games and battling it out to make the post season, MANY of the players that were held out with injury including Becton, would have stayed in the line-up and not missed any time.

2020 is TANK FOR TREVOR.  No way are the going to push a 1st round draft pick or any other player to stay in the game even if it is just a hangnail that they are dealing with.

In comparing Wirfs with Becton, I'd take Becton by far.  Wirfs may be a Pro Bowl player but Becton is headed to the HOF.  He is "Revis" special. 

This idea that coaches and players are TRYING to lose football games is so misguided. A Tank is really just a fantasy of most fans imagination. The GM as Joe has done here can strip a team of talent, yes, but trust me, every Sunday and all week in practice the coaches and team are looking for ways to win....its their reputations and paychecks on the line. 

[The Crusher]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

This idea that coaches and players are TRYING to lose football games is so misguided. A Tank is really just a fantasy of most fans imagination. The GM as Joe has done here can strip a team of talent, yes, but trust me, every Sunday and all week in practice the coaches and team are looking for ways to win....its their reputations and paychecks on the line. 

Striping away talent, holding guys out for minor injuries and game planning like Gase is exactly how a NFL team tanks. That’s why Gase will be here next year because they are doing exactly what they set out to do. Chris, Joe abs Adam are all in cahoots. 

[HessStation]

I think the answer is, ask yourself if you were starting a new franchise today and got to pick one player out of the OL group to put on your team who would you take ....and it’s not even close as I’d guess the same for almost all NFL execs and it’s Becton.  
And fwiw I usually tend to play contrarian and not give good Jets players enough credit while they are on the team, ie Robbie Anderson as an example. 
Becton is next level, legit potential HOF without injuries. I’d probably take him #1 overall in a redraft 

[kevinc855]

3 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Striping away talent, holding guys out for minor injuries and game planning like Gase is exactly how a NFL team tanks. That’s why Gase will be here next year because they are doing exactly what they set out to do. Chris, Joe abs Adam are all in cahoots. 

lol yes and the moon landing was staged....

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, Scott Dierking said:

I was just countering your supposed opinion that Becton is soft in training. Truth is, we don't have much of an idea. I do know that he did shed some weight, and that probably involved some hard work.

I choose to believe that Becton has yet to fully understand what it means to "play hurt" in the NFL. The NFL did not have a training camp this year, and that may have retarded some of the NFL maturity that a veteran may have been able to nurture him with. Not even sure who that may be on the Jets offensive line (McGovern?) Someone should be in his ear. Frank Pollack (o-line coach)  should be able to relay this as well. 

If this tendency persists into next year, then there is a real problem. I am just glad that we are not using the terms "Jet first round draft pick" and "bust" together in the same sentences for the first time in a seeming long time.

In a lost year with a lame duck HC makes sense that players are a little more likely to prioritize healing over playing in close-call cases.

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

lol yes and the moon landing was staged....

I know right? 

[The Crusher]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

In a lost year with a lame duck HC makes sense that players are a little more likely to prioritize healing over playing in close-call cases.

Dude,  a lame duck coach is one that’s not coming back. Gase will be back. 

[bitonti]

for what it's worth I think it's fair to rate Wirfs higher than Becton based on availability 

I don't know that Wirfs plays LT here and he doesn't have the upside of Becton 

Becton has more flashes of dominance and plays a more premium position 

but on a certain level if Becton keeps missing games because of a chest cold he's not going to reach that upside 

there's always this question, why did this top 5 player physical rarity fall to 11 and while it's too soon for an answer, we are getting some hints

I can see why NFL GM's would be less than comfortable drafting this player (why the Giants went Thomas for example)

Becton was a boom bust pick as was Mims, JD swinging for the fences but most NFL GMs prefer to get on base  

 

 

[jgb]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Dude,  ia lame duck coach is one that’s not coming back. Gase will be back. 

If it were two days ago before the thread about Jamal's recent Jets comments, I would probably carelessly use a different word to describe how this post makes me feel but now I will just say it makes me very, very sad.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

for what it's worth I think it's fair to rate Wirfs higher than Becton based on availability 

I don't know that Wirfs plays LT here and he doesn't have the upside of Becton 

Becton has more flashes of dominance and plays a more premium position 

but on a certain level if Becton keeps missing games because of a chest cold he's not going to reach that upside 

there's always this question, why did this top 5 player physical rarity fall to 11 and while it's too soon for an answer, we are getting some hints

I can see why NFL GM's would be less than comfortable drafting this player (why the Giants went Thomas for example)

Becton was a boom bust pick as was Mims, JD swinging for the fences but most NFL GMs prefer to get on base  

 

 

It's a tricky balance. Go too far with trying to get on base, and you are left with a GM like Macc who is deathly afraid of striking out.

[The Crusher]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

If it were two days ago before the thread about Jamal's recent Jets comments, I would probably carelessly use a different word to describe how this post makes me feel but now I will just say it makes me very, very sad.

PM me, I can take it! 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

It's a tricky balance. Go too far with trying to get on base, and you are left with a GM like Macc who is deathly afraid of striking out.

it's easy for us to sit here on message boards and say "swing for the fences Mac!" but there are families and mortgages involved

I understand why Idzik and Mac turtled up because they had no job security

what Mac and Idzik didn't understand is it's kind of like a poker tourney you need to make plays or you'll be blinded out either way  (time is a factor)

JD needed that 6 year contract to actually feel comfortable taking big swings

 

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's easy for us to sit here on message boards and say "swing for the fences Mac!" but there are families and mortgages involved

I understand why Idzik and Mac turtled up because they had no job security

what Mac and Idzik didn't understand is it's kind of like a poker tourney you need to make plays or you'll be blinded out either way  (time is a factor)

JD needed that 6 year contract to actually feel comfortable taking big swings

 

 

All fair points but he still was totally gutless and didn't show the courage of his convictions. The one story that springs to mind is how he (correctly) identified Kamara as a player but let him slip off the hook at the trade up cost. I'd prefer someone who at least operates with confidence in his own process.

[Scott Dierking]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

f but most NFL GMs prefer to get on base  

 

 

Like me in high school.

[The Crusher]

15 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's easy for us to sit here on message boards and say "swing for the fences Mac!" but there are families and mortgages involved

I understand why Idzik and Mac turtled up because they had no job security

what Mac and Idzik didn't understand is it's kind of like a poker tourney you need to make plays or you'll be blinded out either way  (time is a factor)

JD needed that 6 year contract to actually feel comfortable taking big swings

 

 

Ok, but they make big money. If that’s a factor they should get a condo, get a vasectomy and do their dam job! Sometimes I wish I got a vasectomy on my 21st birthday, but I digress. 

[bitonti]

10 minutes ago, jgb said:

All fair points but he still was totally gutless and didn't show the courage of his convictions. The one story that springs to mind is how he (correctly) identified Kamara as a player but let him slip off the hook at the trade up cost. I'd prefer someone who at least operates with confidence in his own process.

 

6 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

Ok, but they make big money. If that’s a factor they should get a condo, get a vasectomy and do their dam job? Sometimes I wish I got a vasectomy on my 21st birthday, but I digress. 

on some level these guys are who they are 

Mac was a economics major from Trinity 

Idzik went to Dartmouth 

Joe Douglas started 45 games for the Richmond Spiders

the first two were more like analysts , Douglas is a player/scout 

truth is I feel good about the GM spot from a draft perspective - I hope we find a HC version of Douglas and I also hope JD does better with FA (keeping Robby for example) 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, bitonti said:

 

on some level these guys are who they are 

Mac was a economics major from Trinity 

Idzik went to Dartmouth 

Joe Douglas started 45 games for the Richmond Spiders

the first two were more like analysts , Douglas is a player/scout 

truth is I feel good about the GM spot from a draft perspective - I hope we find a HC version of Douglas and I also hope JD does better with FA (keeping Robby for example) 

If our last three GMs were draft picks, Idzik and Macc would've been UDFAs and JD is a 2nd rounder (a 1st rounder would be a dude who already succeeded as a GM in the league). 

[kevinc855]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

for what it's worth I think it's fair to rate Wirfs higher than Becton based on availability 

I don't know that Wirfs plays LT here and he doesn't have the upside of Becton 

Becton has more flashes of dominance and plays a more premium position 

but on a certain level if Becton keeps missing games because of a chest cold he's not going to reach that upside 

there's always this question, why did this top 5 player physical rarity fall to 11 and while it's too soon for an answer, we are getting some hints

I can see why NFL GM's would be less than comfortable drafting this player (why the Giants went Thomas for example)

Becton was a boom bust pick as was Mims, JD swinging for the fences but most NFL GMs prefer to get on base  

 

 

I have written about this before....JD's ego that is. It strikes me as bold which in some ways is great, but in some ways, can also lead to utter failure if not executed right. You see it in his moves, letting Robby walk was our first hint of that maybe a little to much swag type mentality....

[The Crusher]

34 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I have written about this before....JD's ego that is. It strikes me as bold which in some ways is great, but in some ways, can also lead to utter failure if not executed right. You see it in his moves, letting Robby walk was our first hint of that maybe a little to much swag type mentality....

That’s perfectly fine but I also think Robby wanted to play for his old college coach again. Only way he would stay is if we beat their offer considerably. Now of course, should just extended him before he he was  a free agent. 

[Scott Dierking]

18 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

I have written about this before....JD's ego that is. It strikes me as bold which in some ways is great, but in some ways, can also lead to utter failure if not executed right. You see it in his moves, letting Robby walk was our first hint of that maybe a little to much swag type mentality....

How can you even pretend to know what his ego is?

[Scott Dierking]

4 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

That’s perfectly fine but I also think Robby wanted to okay fir his old college coach again. Only way he would stay is if we beat their offer considerably. Now of course, should just extended him before he he was  a free agent. 

Honest question, do you believe that a true #1 receiver in the NFL is worth a 2nd round pick?

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Scott Dierking said:

Honest question, do you believe that a true #1 receiver in the NFL is worth a 2nd round pick?

I’m a Jet fan Scott, not sure I really know what a true #1 reviewer in the NFL looks like from my perspective. Yet, If we look at what Stefan Diggs brought to Buffalo and Josh Allen I would say yes and maybe more.,

[EM31]

The idea of playing hurt is one thing and every player has to reach their own threshold of discomfort if you will on that question.

All bets are off however when a person cannot breathe.  Coming out of a game for that reason is something else entirely.  it is one reason for example why water torture is so effective.  Becton gets a pass on this one TBH and I think that any oxygen debt problem may well be a product of the effort he puts out on every play.  I am sure the coaching staff would have taken 75% of Becton if that meant he could stayed in for the whole game.  Perhaps there are some lessons in here the coaching as well as the player.

 

[Scott Dierking]

Just now, The Crusher said:

I’m a Jet fan Scott, not sure I really know what a true #1 reviewer in the NFL looks like from my perspective. Yet, If we look at what Stefan Diggs brought to Buffalo and Josh Allen I would say yes and maybe more.,

I would probably agree.

Here's the thing with Robbie, in 2019, any team in the NFL could have sacrificed their 2nd round pick if they signed Robbie (of course the Jets could have matched that offer and retained him). No team did that. 

Therefore, we can say with strong certainty, that the majority of NFL teams do not see Robbie as a number 1 either. He is probably a very low end 1 at best, to a middling 2, if we want to evaluate fairly.

This new narrative that Robbie Anderson represents some real lost opportunity for the Jets is mottled at best. It just appears to be another thing for Jets fans to complain about. Because they are conditioned to think the worst of every move. And I understand that.

[The Crusher]

Just now, Scott Dierking said:

I would probably agree.

Here's the thing with Robbie, in 2019, any team in the NFL could have sacrificed their 2nd round pick if they signed Robbie (of course the Jets could have matched that offer and retained him). No team did that. 

Therefore, we can say with strong certainty, that the majority of NFL teams do not see Robbie as a number 1 either. He is probably a very low end 1 at best, to a middling 2, if we want to evaluate fairly.

This new narrative that Robbie Anderson represents some real lost opportunity for the Jets is mottled at best. It just appears to be another thing for Jets fans to complain about. Because they are conditioned to think the worst of every move. And I understand that.

I think it defaults to “ he’s the best we had” narrative. Then we failed miserably trying to replace him so that gives that story some legs. But no, he’s not a true number one like Diggs, that’s what it look like. 

[bitonti]

2 minutes ago, EM31 said:

The idea of playing hurt is one thing and every player has to reach their own threshold of discomfort if you will on that question.

All bets are off however when a person cannot breathe.  Coming out of a game for that reason is something else entirely.  it is one reason for example why water torture is so effective.  Becton gets a pass on this one TBH and I think that any oxygen debt problem may well be a product of the effort he puts out on every play.  I am sure the coaching staff would have taken 75% of Becton if that meant he could stayed in for the whole game.  Perhaps there are some lessons in here the coaching as well as the player.

 

players having breathing problems are cause for instant alarm among any trainers, COVID or not 

but when it happens with a 360 pound human being, the ghost of Korey Stringer looms large 

not that Becton would overheat on a 30 degree day but with dudes that big it's fair to be extra cautious 

[DetroitRed]

Wirfs wiffs a lot


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[Fantasy Island]

Bectons weapons

 

[FidelioJet]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

This idea that coaches and players are TRYING to lose football games is so misguided. A Tank is really just a fantasy of most fans imagination. The GM as Joe has done here can strip a team of talent, yes, but trust me, every Sunday and all week in practice the coaches and team are looking for ways to win....its their reputations and paychecks on the line. 

This is right but you better believe JD and the Johnsons are pulling for loses right now as much the rest of us. 

[Chrebetfan80]

20 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

This is a story behind the numbers thing for me, and I can be completely wrong on this since I am unsure what A PBLK and RBLK win% takes into consideration and how these PFF grades pass and run blocking, but a few things that immediately jump to my mind. 

1) the amount of time Becton is asked to pass block for over Wirfs.  Obviously tom brady is known for getting the ball out of his hands rather quickly, while wirfs here is asked to pass block at a higher frequency than becton (brady has the second or first most pass attempts in the league i believe) he is pass blocking shorter on each play which contributes to his success.  By contrast becton is being asked to protect a QB's blind side, and block for a much longer time because of sam darnolds inability to get the ball out of his hands.  On multiple occasions sam has scrambled up into a pocket when he should scramble out, or vise versa all while holding onto the ball for toolong.  

2) I cant find the numbers but id be interested to see on running plays how many of them go in wirfs direction vs bectons and how that factors into runblocking % and grades. 

I dont know who is actually better, just by the eye test watching games I see more flashes of absolute dominance from becton than I have from wirfs but wirfs so far has graded out better and obviously has been more durable at this point. 

[addage]

Jumbo Elliott talked about OL's needing a year in the weight room in order to get their bodies acclimated to the pro game.  And Elliott was a Michigan guy so you know he was well prepped for the pro game.  QW started out with a lingering ankle? issue that limited his play.  But he has come on strong in year 2.  Big guys need to acclimate their bodies to the pro game.  Take more time than some of the speed players.

I think Becton needs to be evaluated after year 2.  If he strengthens his upper body, his arm/chest issues may disappear.  If so, with his ceiling, we may being seeing a perennial all pro. 

It was a great year for drafting OT's.  Not surprising a couple of them show well.