For Those That Prefer Fields Over Trevor Lawrence

[section314]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Also supports the idea in most cases it takes 3-4 years to know what you really have. Obviously some exceptions but in most case 3-4 seasons. 

Allen is on the perfect trajectory for any young player in any sport....he is getting better every game. Every other 1st round starter has been getting worse.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, genot said:

I really wish everybody would realize the changing narrative thats occured the last month on this great forum. It was TL,and TL alone. Oh,he's a generational prospect you just can't pass on. Now its Fields. Next week, who will it be. Mac Jones. Wilson. Lance????? It's a risky trap that none of us should get caught in.

Nothings changed.  Its still Trevor Lawrence on top and Fields second.  

Then theres a drop off to the rest

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Well those who wanted Sam pretty much decided after that single game, The Rose Bowl game. So I guess the board turning on fields after a bad showing is much of the same. Nobody really knows anything, I mean damn, as of right now be hard not to give Josh Allen the nod for the best in that QB class at this very moment. 

There is no such thing as the perfect polished prospect.  It doesnt exist.  This "generational" nonsense that people spew is nauseating and moronic.  TL is generational but he put up one of the most embarrassing Nat'y performances of all time and was terrible in both playoff games last year and he's been a starter for 3 years and wont even win a Heisman?  Yeah, that's not how it works if you're generational.  He wasnt the best QB in college last year, he wasnt the year before and it's arguable he is this year...but sure, he's generational.  lol

At the end of the day, you draft a player based on potential.  Cool thing for the Jets is if they decide to go QB there a 3 guys who look to have a ton of potential but neither one of them are coming in and saving this franchise.  It's going to take a ton of building for them to see success. 

The reality of the situation is; there is a ton to like about all 3 prospects and there are reasons to give pause as well but using 1 game (where the QB won and put up 400 yards of offense vs. a top 10 team) to definitively say he's good or bad, is dumb AF.

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Nothings changed.  Its still Trevor Lawrence on top and Fields second.  

Then theres a drop off to the rest

I think Zach Wilson is closing the gap....dude has jaw dropping talent.

[section314]

14 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think Zach Wilson is closing the gap....dude has jaw dropping talent.

What about your guy Trask?

[Jet Nut]

23 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think Zach Wilson is closing the gap....dude has jaw dropping talent.

I agree and am sure he'll rise by the time of the draft.  I was kind of thinking as of today.  

And really, all the talk about Z Wilson came off of one game so its kind of fitting in this thread 

[genot]

52 minutes ago, JiF said:

I think Zach Wilson is closing the gap....dude has jaw dropping talent.

He's also had shoulder surgery,and looks rather frail

[NYJ1]

Is there anyone dumb enough to think JF is a better prospect than TL? Anyone that honestly thinks that needs to be committed. Justin Fields just another in a long list of GREAT Ohio St. QB's that go on to sh*t the bed in the NFL. It's the system at Ohio St. that's conducive, in a far less challenging league with lesser opponents, to being successful. How many more times must teams be stupid enough to draft an OSU QB top 5 and they immediately fail in the NFL before they begin to catch on?

My eyes are wide open. Objectively, if I thought JF was a good QB I would buck the trend of staying away from OSU QB's without hesitation. However, that's just not the case and yesterday's game PROVED that.

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

I think Zach Wilson is closing the gap....dude has jaw dropping talent.

I don't know too much about Zach Wilson but he does look like an awesome talent however after years of Chad Pennington shoulder surgeries to his throwing arm, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking Wilson who's already had shoulder surgery to his throwing arm (due to an injury that's plagued him since HS). Yes. Right now he's healthy and arm looks super strong but one DT falling on him with body weight into his shoulder could end up snapping it like a twig. I'm sorry but I do not want to draft any QB with previous shoulder surgery to his throwing arm regardless of how healthy he currently looks. 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, section314 said:

What about your guy Trask?

Dont see it.  Limited athlete, limited arm strength, very low ceiling IMO.  He's accurate, I think he does a good job presnap, he's pretty much useless if it's off script. The statue QB's are a dying breed.  Seems like a future back up to me but how can you bet against him?  Such a great underdog story.

 

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I agree and am sure he'll rise by the time of the draft.  I was kind of thinking as of today.  

And really, all the talk about Z Wilson came off of one game so its kind of fitting in this thread 

Nah, his name has been coming up for a while.  @kdels62 has been talking about him for weeks.  The game that made me really stop and pay attention was last week vs. Bosie St.  The challenge with a guy like Wilson is the competition level...hard to know if he's just housing on fools or if he can do it vs. real comp. 

[JustInFudge]

55 minutes ago, genot said:

He's also had shoulder surgery,and looks rather frail

The shoulder surgery doesnt seem to have limited his arm.  He has a cannon and throws lasers.  

[Adoni Beast]

Anyone who is off the Fields bandwagon (after they were already on it) is having a dramatic knee jerk reaction.

I think Josh Allen is the perfect recent example of a young QB prospect and what the right situation with the right organization can do with that prospect.

Allen had all the physical attributes but was extremely raw with accuracy issues. Now look at him, and look at how many bad college games he had...especially the year before he was drafted.

Put Fields with the right coaches and organization and he can absolutely be a star.

But Lawrence over Fields any day.

[Jet Nut]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

Nah, his name has been coming up for a while.  @kdels62 has been talking about him for weeks.  The game that made me really stop and pay attention was last week vs. Bosie St.  The challenge with a guy like Wilson is the competition level...hard to know if he's just housing on fools or if he can do it vs. real comp. 

Thats the one game that has led to people talking about him, a few weeks ago.  He put up stupid good numbers, has a strong arm and was on every sports highlight show after that game vs Boise state and then in posts.  Hard to understand what Boise St translates to the NFL competition 

[NYJ1]

33 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I don't know too much about Zach Wilson but he does look like an awesome talent however after years of Chad Pennington shoulder surgeries to his throwing arm, I wouldn't feel comfortable taking Wilson who's already had shoulder surgery to his throwing arm (due to an injury that's plagued him since HS). Yes. Right now he's healthy and arm looks super strong but one DT falling on him with body weight into his shoulder could end up snapping it like a twig. I'm sorry but I do not want to draft any QB with previous shoulder surgery to his throwing arm regardless of how healthy he currently looks. 

Absurd. That scenario could happen to any QB.

[Defense Wins Championships]

15 minutes ago, JiF said:

The shoulder surgery doesnt seem to have limited his arm.  He has a cannon and throws lasers.  

Just wait until he plays against grown men in the NFL and let's see how long his noodle surgically repaired shoulder holds up, then. 

Right now he plays for BYU and goes up against crap competition vs teams like Navy, Troy, Louisiana TECH, UTSA, Texas STATE and winless Northern Alabama lol

He's balling out against glorified HS kids who will never make the NFL on Defense; congrats to him? 

[JustInFudge]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats the one game that has led to people talking about him, a few weeks ago.  He put up stupid good numbers, has a strong arm and was on every sports highlight show after that game vs Boise state and then in posts.  Hard to understand what Boise St translates to the NFL competition 

His name has come up for weeks in discussions around here.  Someone brought him up before Halloween in the draft forum

I'm saying for me personally, the Bosie St. game made me give it a real look and not because Bosie St. is some juggernaut but because he was literally playing schools I've never heard of prior to the game.

[THE BARON]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

So one game, because of interceptions means his draft ranking changes?

Hes 2nd to Trevor, what's changed?  

 

 He's all yours... From where I am sitting Lawrence is the better passer by a good margin... I just hope JD has my eye and not yours... Meaning, if the Jets do the unthinkable and blow their tank job and miss out on Trevor Lawrence, I HOPE JD does not see Fields as the best bet and then draft him.  No way.  Fields is exciting at times and makes a lot of nice plays, but he is risky.   Small sample size, a tendency to run when pass catchers are still in progress (perhaps he does not read as well as you would like), and as of late, questionable decisions with the football.

If it is not Lawrence, pass up on Fields. keep Sam and use all that draft capitol and cap space to add weapons, weapons weapons. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

4 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Absurd. That scenario could happen to any QB.

Yes. It can. But not every NCAA kid coming into the NFL has already had surgery required to their throwing shoulder. 

I'd rather wait for it to happen before knowing it's already happened (see Chad Pennington). 

[Lith]

53 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

How many more times must teams be stupid enough to draft an OSU QB top 5 and they immediately fail in the NFL before they begin to catch on?

Has this actually happened more than once?  That an OSU QB was selected top 5.  Art Schlichter is the only guy I can think of and that was like 40 years ago.  OSU has never had a QB who was considered the level of pro prospect that FIelds is.  Haskins and Schlichter are the only OSU first rounders I can think of. 

I don't know how good Fields will be as a pro.  But to group him in with guys like JT Barrett, Terrelle Pryor, Cardale Jones, Troy Smith & Craig Krenzel just because he goes to Ohio State seems like a weak narrative to me.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 hours ago, JiF said:

There is no such thing as the perfect polished prospect.  It doesnt exist.  This "generational" nonsense that people spew is nauseating and moronic.  TL is generational but he put up one of the most embarrassing Nat'y performances of all time and was terrible in both playoff games last year and he's been a starter for 3 years and wont even win a Heisman?  Yeah, that's not how it works if you're generational.  He wasnt the best QB in college last year, he wasnt the year before and it's arguable he is this year...but sure, he's generational.  lol

At the end of the day, you draft a player based on potential.  Cool thing for the Jets is if they decide to go QB there a 3 guys who look to have a ton of potential but neither one of them are coming in and saving this franchise.  It's going to take a ton of building for them to see success. 

The reality of the situation is; there is a ton to like about all 3 prospects and there are reasons to give pause as well but using 1 game (where the QB won and put up 400 yards of offense vs. a top 10 team) to definitively say he's good or bad, is dumb AF.

I don’t understand people who cherry pick games and try to make an analysis out of it. QB especially is ridiculously hard to evaluate especially since there is limited data and such a talent gap in college football. 

No matter what, we need a coaching staff that actually helps a qb develop. Sam might have failed regardless of the situation, but we basically left a baby alone with a hyena and expected good things to happen. 

 

[JustInFudge]

7 minutes ago, Lith said:

Has this actually happened more than once?  That an OSU QB was selected top 5.  Art Schlichter is the only guy I can think of and that was like 40 years ago.  OSU has never had a QB who was considered the level of pro prospect that FIelds is.  Haskins and Schlichter are the only OSU first rounders I can think of. 

I don't know how good Fields will be as a pro.  But to group him in with guys like JT Barrett, Terrelle Pryor, Cardale Jones, Troy Smith & Craig Krenzel just because he goes to Ohio State seems like a weak narrative to me.

It's insane to use the school as your determining criteria on a player.

This might be hard to believe but Justin Fields is the highest rated recruit to ever play for Ohio St.

https://lettermenrow.com/ohio-state-football/ohio-state-top-recruits-buckeyes-justin-fields/

[NYJ1]

3 minutes ago, Lith said:

Has this actually happened more than once?  That an OSU QB was selected top 5.  Art Schlichter is the only guy I can think of and that was like 40 years ago.  OSU has never had a QB who was considered the level of pro prospect that FIelds is.  Haskins and Schlichter are the only OSU first rounders I can think of. 

I don't know how good Fields will be as a pro.  But to group him in with guys like JT Barrett, Terrelle Pryor, Cardale Jones, Troy Smith & Craig Krenzel just because he goes to Ohio State seems like a weak narrative to me.

You've got me on the top 5 thing, but I would absolutely group Justin Fields with players like Barrett, Pryor, Haskins, etc. I'm not impressed by him at all. The game yesterday was very telling. He makes a lot of poor decisions with the football. If I'm Joe Douglas, and you're probably thankful I'm not:), my list goes Trevor Lawrence, next is Zach Wilson. I wouldn't even consider taking JF.

[JustInFudge]

8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I don’t understand people who cherry pick games and try to make an analysis out of it. QB especially is ridiculously hard to evaluate especially since there is limited data and such a talent gap in college football. 

No matter what, we need a coaching staff that actually helps a qb develop. Sam might have failed regardless of the situation, but we basically left a baby alone with a hyena and expected good things to happen. 

 

100%.  To make a definitive statement either way on a players NFL career because of 1 performance in college is literally next level nut job sh*t. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

It's insane to use the school as your determining criteria on a player.

This might be hard to believe but Justin Fields is the highest rated recruit to ever play for Ohio St.

https://lettermenrow.com/ohio-state-football/ohio-state-top-recruits-buckeyes-justin-fields/

Coming from the guy who puts zero stock into and laughed at me for pointing out how TL was the highest rated HS QB prospect EVER dating back to Elway/Manning is both hypocritical and funny to me. I guess using prospect rankings is only important when it fits your agenda...

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, THE BARON said:

 He's all yours... From where I am sitting Lawrence is the better passer by a good margin... I just hope JD has my eye and not yours... Meaning, if the Jets do the unthinkable and blow their tank job and miss out on Trevor Lawrence, I HOPE JD does not see Fields as the best bet and then draft him.  No way.  Fields is exciting at times and makes a lot of nice plays, but he is risky.   Small sample size, a tendency to run when pass catchers are still in progress (perhaps he does not read as well as you would like), and as of late, questionable decisions with the football.

If it is not Lawrence, pass up on Fields. keep Sam and use all that draft capitol and cap space to add weapons, weapons weapons. 

No kidding I've said that Lawrence is the better QB in every statement about the 2 QBs.  TL makes better decisions, seems to see the field a bit better.  Fields can pass the hell out of the ball isnt behind as a passer by any margin.  

If the Jets somehow end up with the 2nd pick, Fields is the pick in a landslide over any of the late comers to the party right now

[Charlie Brown]

21 hours ago, THE BARON said:

For Those That Prefer Fields Over Trevor Lawrence...

Go watch the Hoosiers game.... 

Let me know if he is still 1B to Lawrence 1A

 

SAM DARNOLD is BETTER than FIELDS!!!!  

 

Fields is a BUST ALAREDY according to some!

 

 

SAM SAM SAM HES OUR MAN!!  

[TheMo]

Guys it’s okay to admit that a prospect has flaws as @JiF mentioned. Neither of these guys is perfect. I think Lawrence is more developed and a better prospect simply because he’s had more more starts. Fields had a rough outing and it is concerning in the same way that Lawrence having a bad outing is concerning. Discounting it is as dumb as discounting Lawrence’s bad performances. Overall I truly believe that being a three year starter makes a huge difference as a prospect. Some of it is development but really it’sa better sample size to know what you are getting. 

[THE BARON]

50 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No kidding I've said that Lawrence is the better QB in every statement about the 2 QBs.  TL makes better decisions, seems to see the field a bit better.  Fields can pass the hell out of the ball isnt behind as a passer by any margin.  

If the Jets somehow end up with the 2nd pick, Fields is the pick in a landslide over any of the late comers to the party right now

 Now way should they take Fields if they miss out on Lawrence. I'd go with Sam and a boatload of play makers for him to work with...

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

 Now way should they take Fields if they miss out on Lawrence. I'd go with Sam and a boatload of play makers for him to work with...

Problem is and its a huge problem is the rookie contract has run its course and with Fields you get a reset and buy yourself 3 plus years by switching from Sam to Fields.  On top of the fact that in 3 years, even though I dont believe hes had a fair chance, Darnold hasnt shown hes the guy and they'll move on to Fields IMO

[THE BARON]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Problem is and its a huge problem is the rookie contract has run its course and with Fields you get a reset and buy yourself 3 plus years by switching from Sam to Fields.  On top of the fact that in 3 years, even though I dont believe hes had a fair chance, Darnold hasnt shown hes the guy and they'll move on to Fields IMO

Good points and your thinking may turn out to be correct.  There are two key items that I am keeping in mind.  As impressive as Fields has looked at times, for now, he is another college qb that went on a major heater, but still gets an incomplete on the report card.  His last performance against the Hoosiers gives me even further pause to consider that his body or work in college is not great enough to know for sure if he is a prospect that you can bank on.  He's got a great arm and superior athletic ability, but I would like to see more.

Next... All things being equal. I would be on board with you in that we have not seen too much convincing play from Sam.  Just flahes.

However... Sam aint playing in a vacuum. GASE is is coach and primary teacher.  

Given that, Sam may very well be a word beater in need of a real coach.  Consider Tannehill. 

Agree with the QB salary, but I cant imagine that Sam will draw top ten QB money from any team he sings with, especially the Jets.

I'm going to keep hoping that the Jets stay the current course and successfully complete the Tank for Trevor campaign.

That would be the ideal. 

[Sonny Werblin]

20 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Big East but nonetheless they merged into the ACC

I’m fairly certain that when marino was at pitt they were an independent 

[nyjunc]

7 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I’m fairly certain that when marino was at pitt they were an independent 

The big east didn't start in football until the early 90s.  Pitt was definitely independent in the Marino years

[Smashmouth]

On 11/21/2020 at 4:40 PM, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Isn't everyone killing Lawerence for his one game performance vs LSU?

 

 

imo, Fields biggest detriment is his lack of starts.  I'd feel a lot better about him if he got a full 13 starts this year. 

He might have to sit his rookie year, but I think all quarterbacks should. 

Yes I have heard that many times. But when Fields needed to have the big drive vs Clemson he could not get it done and threw what should have been a pick six. The level of defensive competition that Lawrence faces compared to what fields faces is night and day. Lawrence plays under much more pressure than Fields. To me that's the edge for Lawrence.

Indiana has a better D than most teams on OSU's schedule and Fields was not putting up the gaudy numbers we usually see. Also when it comes to fields completing passes better past 20 yards that's not that difficult to do when its usually pitch and catch ..that being said Lawrence's low percentage in those instances is concerning. I think a good stat to measure two top end college QB's like Fields and Lawrence is how often they play under pressure and all the stats that go along with that.  That's the true mark of the NFL QB can you play under pressure. When it comes to that its hard to argue how much more pressure Lawrence plays under.  This of course is no fault of Fields that he does not face what Lawrence does and that may be the reason Lawrence gets the edge (as the better NFL prospect) from scouts and analysts. 

Fields made a couple of bone headed throws in the game that kept Indiana in the game when they should not have been close. This is omething you don't see Fields do a lot of based on the lopsided advantage he has based on the competition.

FWIW Clemson's OL does not even do a good job protecting Lawrence. Its would be interesting to see if Lawrence played with a low amount of pressure if his numbers would be that much more impressive

[Smashmouth]

19 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I don’t understand people who cherry pick games and try to make an analysis out of it. QB especially is ridiculously hard to evaluate especially since there is limited data and such a talent gap in college football. 

No matter what, we need a coaching staff that actually helps a qb develop. Sam might have failed regardless of the situation, but we basically left a baby alone with a hyena and expected good things to happen. 

 

Just pick the games said QB is under pressure and how he responds to that pressure.