Change my mind: Sam is the biggest bust in Jets history

[FidelioJet]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

We just saw a thread here yesterday suggesting we might be fine at WR with a trio of Crowder, Mims and Perriman.  Even if that trio is indeed the worst in the NFL, it's really not all that bad.  

What excuses will there be when Darnold sh*ts the bed, again, with all 3 of those guys healthy?  The O-Line would be my guess.

Yes it is.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Our OL and WR's aren't as bad as you think.  And last I checked, QB's drive offenses in the NFL.  QB's lift up the play of their OL and WR's.  It's why the offense looked competent on Sunday even with Flacco's old, disinterested a$$ back there.  He's better than Darnold. 

We haven't seen the kind of deep ball accuracy that Flacco provided since Vinny T.

Chargers we're a 2-7 team for a reason. One of them is their secondary sucks. Flacco had a good game against the Pats. The Pats defense is bad this year.

 Thd

[freestater]

14 minutes ago, jgb said:

Flashes I tell you, flashes! You know what else flashes? A gasoline fire.

I was gonna guess hemorrhoid attack. 

[FidelioJet]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Our OL and WR's aren't as bad as you think.  And last I checked, QB's drive offenses in the NFL.  QB's lift up the play of their OL and WR's.  It's why the offense looked competent on Sunday even with Flacco's old, disinterested a$$ back there.  He's better than Darnold. 

We haven't seen the kind of deep ball accuracy that Flacco provided since Vinny T.

Yes they are.

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, genot said:

Chargers we're a 2-7 team for a reason. One of them is their secondary sucks. Flacco had a good game against the Pats. The Pats defense is bad this year.

 Thd

I'd greatly enjoy it if Darnold could take advantage of a bad secondary like Flacco did on Sunday.  

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

Yes they are.

Well that settles it!

[Gastineau Lives]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Park your Deloreon and tell us more about how Darnold is a secret-FQB-in-hiding.

Sanchez is not better than him. Nothing suggests that. You WANT me to say that Darnold is a franchinse QB in hiding because it's something you can argue against because it's dumb.

 

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You have yet to state what your actual argument is, despite several requests to do so.  So what is your argument?

Well, this all began with me saying that there is no evidence that suggests that Mark Sanchez is better than Sam Darnold. Now I know you think Mark Sanchez is a borderline hall of famer, but I can assure you, he's not. (wow that's fun, I should have tried that sooner)

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

Well, this all began with me saying that there is no evidence that suggests that Mark Sanchez is better than Sam Darnold. Now I know you think Mark Sanchez is a borderline hall of famer, but I can assure you, he's not. (wow that's fun, I should have tried that sooner)

We've moved on from this already.  I already agreed Darnold > Sanchez, although its close.

What else you got?  Because the conversation hasn't been about Sanchez for some time. 

[jgb]

Just now, Gastineau Lives said:

Sanchez is not better than him. Nothing suggests that. You WANT me to say that Darnold is a franchinse QB in hiding because it's something you can argue against because it's dumb.

No, I want you to state what your position actually is.

[Gastineau Lives]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You have yet to state what your actual argument is, despite several requests to do so.  So what is your argument?

Darnold > Sanchez.  Fine by me.  We've moved on from that.  What else are you arguing?

Why does there HAVE to be something else? I just wandered in here, said that Sanchez was not better than him, proved it with facts and now I'm being gang banged by two guys who's gf's cheated on them with gingers, apparently.

[FidelioJet]

18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol, Jimmy Graham?  He was a 1st team All-Pro exactly once, despite playing with Brees, Wilson and Aaron Rodgers, and hasn't been relevant since 2016.  

Gronk I will give you.  He was an absolute game-changer and especially helped Brady as he got older.  But Brady had been having tremendous success well before Gronk.  Do you really think the likes of Ben Watson, Daniel Graham, Deion Branch, Troy Brown, Wes Welker and Julian Edelman were "special"?

If Darnold had those guys as his receiving options, undoubtedly there would be the same complaints/excuses people are making right now.  

When you look at this you're pointing to an already established NFL QB that is capable of carrying his team.  Franchise QB's need to be able to do that -but shouldn't be expected to do so early in their career.   Good organizations understand QB's don't start out that way, you have to allow them time to grow by supporting them in every way you can.

Tom wasn't great early on - he had a great defense carry him to those early championships, he grew into the player he is (or was) 

Sam was never given a shot, not at all.  As has been noted around here, he has clearly regressed-  I'm not saying he never got better - he got worse.  His mechanics, his vision, his accuracy were all better his rookie year -  He's shell-shocked and it's obvious to anyone paying attention.  

That's on the Jets. 

[genot]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I'd greatly enjoy it if Darnold could take advantage of a bad secondary like Flacco did on Sunday.  

No WR had a catch in the first half. What they did at halftime,i dont know to change the plan. They should remember that.

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Why does there HAVE to be something else? I just wandered in here, said that Sanchez was not better than him, proved it with facts and now I'm being gang banged by two guys who's gf's cheated on them with gingers, apparently.

But why would the idea of Sanchez > Darnold be so infuriating for you that you would spend 6 pages arguing over it?  They're about the same guy.  What's the big deal with suggesting this?

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Why does there HAVE to be something else? I just wandered in here, said that Sanchez was not better than him, proved it with facts and now I'm being gang banged by two guys who's gf's cheated on them with gingers, apparently.

I have no problem with gingers in general, just ones that blow at football after my team burns huge draft capital on him.

[Gastineau Lives]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

But why would the idea of Sanchez > Darnold be so infuriating for you that you would spend 6 pages arguing over it?  They're about the same guy.  What's the big deal with suggesting this?

You need to go back. I responded with a six word reply and got sucked into a vortex. 

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But why would the idea of Sanchez > Darnold be so infuriating for you that you would spend 6 pages arguing over it?  They're about the same guy.  What's the big deal with suggesting this?

He lost the plot on Darnold not being a bust so tried to localize the debate to a point no one actually cares about 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Gastineau Lives said:

You need to go back. I responded with a six word reply and got sucked into a vortex. 

That's on you.  You knew would what this would be the moment you got into this discussion with me and jgb.

[genot]

1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

When you look at this you're pointing to an already established NFL QB that is capable of carrying his team.  Franchise QB's need to be able to do that -but shouldn't be expected to do so early in their career.   Good organizations understand QB's don't start out that way, you have to allow them time to grow by supporting them in every way you can.

Tom wasn't great early on - he had a great defense carry him to those early championships, he grew into the player he is (or was) 

Sam was never given a shot, not at all.  As has been noted around here, he has clearly regressed-  I'm not saying he never got better - he got worse.  His mechanics, his vision, his accuracy were all better his rookie year -  He's shell-shocked and it's obvious to anyone paying attention.  

That's on the Jets. 

Great points. Lets not forget special teams. Have we had one good return the whole year. Field position is another problem that needs to be addressed.. Nice to start some drives on the 50,instead of your own 20,all the time

[Gastineau Lives]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

That's on you.  You knew would what this would be the moment you got into this discussion with me and jgb.

Oh yes, the Martin and Lewis of quarterback discussion gang bangs. 

[maury77]

Some of you guys must be real young. Say what you want about Darnold, he has at least had good stretches of games (end of his rookie season, middle of last year). 

Gholston, a pass rusher, did not have 1 sack. Nada. Blair Thomas (who was selected higher than Darnold was) had TWO career 10 yard games. 

Recency bias is a real thing. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

Great points. Lets not forget special teams. Have we had one good return the whole year. Field position is another problem that needs to be addressed.. Nice to start some drives on the 50,instead of your own 20,all the time

lol.  Field position.

We're really scraping the barrel to find excuses for Darnold these days, aren't we.

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, chirorob said:

"Kenny O is a statue."

"Well, it's a good thing we have possibly the best left tackle in the history of the NFL to protect him."

Munoz, Fields, Sweeny, Alexander, Powell. McNeill and Paige, Walker, Gaffney and eventually Toon, with Mickey Shuler and most of the Sack Exchange.  That is nothing to think about.  We could have added Marino to that in '83.  Whoopsie

[Sonny Werblin]

FWIW the Jets have picked #1 or #2 in the draft on 5 occasions..

1961 Tom Brown G Minnesota #2 selection- Outland Trophy winner - for some reason chose to play in the CFL

1965 Joe Namath QB Alabama #1 selection 

1980 Johnny "Lam" Jones WR Texas #2 selection

1990 Blair Thomas RB Notre Dame #2 selection

1996 Keyshawn Johnson WR USC #1 selection

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

Oh yes, the Martin and Lewis of quarterback discussion gang bangs. 

Do we get to chose who is who?

[genot]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol.  Field position.

We're really scraping the barrel to find excuses for Darnold these days, aren't we.

I was adding to the reasons stated in his post. Our offense has been bad for a number of reason. That's one of them. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

I was adding to the reasons stated in his post. Our offense has been bad for a number of reason. That's one of them. 

The top reason our offense has been bad for decades has been QB play.  The top reasons for bad QB play are bad GM's hired by bad owners.   

The rest of this nonsense being argued in this thread is just window dressing.  Has neglecting the OL at times and drafting receivers like Stephen Hill, ArDarius Stewart, Chad Hansen and Devin Smith been part of that?  Absolutely.  The driving force?  Nah.  

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

is this Mac posting himself? i feel like this was Mac's thinking exactly 

still wrong by the way 

everyone needs an instant all pro guard 

to draft the bust that sets the franchise back a half decade, that's a bigger problem

side note I believe they Had Teddy Bridgewater on the roster that offseason 

 

 

 

[Philc1]

He played well last season and then JD tossed aside his best and favorite WR.  Our OL is just as bad last year except for Becton who has missed games.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

is this Mac posting himself? i feel like this was Mac's thinking exactly 

still wrong by the way 

everyone needs an instant all pro guard 

to draft the bust that sets the franchise back a half decade, that's a bigger problem

side note I believe they Had Teddy Bridgewater on the roster that offseason 

 

 

No one takes a G over a QB.  Who needs a QB.  No one, ever.  

Its not wrong, along with the half assed "set the franchise back half a decade" nonsense.  I guess youre saying swap out Darnold for any G and we would have been better off?  

And as a side note no one knew that Teddy Bridgewater could walk, nevermind play NFL football.  

[Jet Nut]

47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Our OL and WR's aren't as bad as you think.  And last I checked, QB's drive offenses in the NFL.  QB's lift up the play of their OL and WR's.  It's why the offense looked competent on Sunday even with Flacco's old, disinterested a$$ back there.  He's better than Darnold. 

We haven't seen the kind of deep ball accuracy that Flacco provided since Vinny T.

You may need to recheck because last time anyone looked there is no proof anywhere that shows a different QB could make Barrios and the two Smiths NFL caliber WR who could lead a team.  Especially when combined with an equally piss/poor OL.  

The offense was worse with Flacco than it was with Darnold until Crowder, Perriman and Mims were on the field.  What was different?  Oh yeah that would be the addition of Crowder, Perriman and Mims.  You destroyed your own theory.   We havent thrown the ball deep since we had a WR who could get open, shocking

Look at the entire picture, its not apples to apples

[Saul Goodman]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Does he get to face 6 of the 8 worst defenses in the league?

Even when you extrapolate those 8 games over a full season, Darnold was merely middle of the pack compared to QB's around the  league.  So the absolute best you'll ever see is Darnold playing like a league average QB against a bad defense.  Sweet!

Many players get better as they gain experience. My opinions on Darnold, that he has shown talent and that the book on his career is not written, are far more plausible than yours that he’ll be out of the league soon. 

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Many players get better as they gain experience. My opinions on Darnold are far more plausible than yours that he’ll be out of the league soon. 

Darnold is almost exactly the same QB in year 3 as he was in years 1-2, and the same guy he was in college.  He hasn't gotten better, and is showing no signs that he will, because his skillset isn't at all NFL caliber.  His "talent" that he has shown is nothing special whatsoever.  Your hope is that he "improves" halfway thru year 3 of his career, or the remainder of his career, when he hasn't shown any improvement to date?  No, I can say with confidence that opinion on Darnold is NOT "far more plausible" than mine. 

QB's better than Darnold have been out of the league quicker than what I suggested for Darnold.  Him being a former # 3 overall pick is the only thing that will keep him around a while, just like Sanchez.  It's more than generous to say he'll bounce around the league until about 2025.  Darnold is a QB3 in this league.  

[jetscrazey]

Browning Nagle was a bigger bust.  Sam has talent but he's on the worst team and has the worst coaching staff which has ruined any chance he had to develop.

[Icer]

You guys don't get it, Sam Darnold is good because he had a good game three or four times over the past 4 years.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

 

uh why do you think I am this way, a$$hole 

Rutgers is like hey Joker remember that acid bath you took

of course I remember why I have no hope and optimism from now until I die 

Why I'd rather be right and bet money against the Jets than be hopeful and function like a normal fan 

but thanks for the friendly reminder

 

 

You're welcome.