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Joe Douglas failed to support Sam Darnold, so why do people think he will do better with Trevor Lawrence?


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10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He wants his own QB, Head Coach, and he is holding on to his war chest of money and draft picks until they are in place.  It sucks that Sam was sacrificed for it, but that’s the political aspect of the sport.

Also, if you can’t see the upside in some of the young players, outside of Becton, that he’s brought in, you haven’t been paying attention.  There are plenty of young pieces that have shown great upside this year, especially as of late.

Outside of your Punter, Becton and maybe Mims, the rest of the draft has been forgettable.

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A QB doesn't solve all your problems. Look at Matt Stafford. Despite having a franchise QB for years, the Lions have never had sustained success. There is a real chance the Jets go 0-16. Joe Doug

Wrong. Douglas was never rebuilding the mess he was left behind in one off-season.  That has been abundantly clear to anyone paying attention.  His actions speak much louder than his words.

Mike Maccagnan had 3 years to build and prep the team for Sam Darnold -- and failed miserably -- plus two more years with Sam Darnold -- and continued to fail miserably. Joe Douglas has had only

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8 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

He completely whiffed on free agency.

This is patently false, and demonstrative of a fundamental lack of insight into what he was trying to accomplish this past offseason.

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Douglas's did make errors for sure, no excusing it.

Some of the oline he signed were not as good as he thought.

He made a terrible mistake not drafting a 2nd wr

He way overvalued our existing TE's

His CB moves did indeed stink

He has done a of of good stuff however and has had only one off season so far (thanks to that moron CJ)

Most of the reason the jet are so awful right now is due to mccagnan and gase who surely will be fired.

In the end he will be judged as all gms are judged by his drafts over the next two year.

Fa solves nothing at all, cap space means dick all in this league unless you are signing your on guys.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

He didn;t try to fix it all in one off-season, but he tried to make incremental improvements. History has shown that the organization matters more than the QB picked. Douglas hasn't done much to create a team for any incoming rookie. If the Jets don't get Lawrence, they are extremely ****ed.

In 1.5 years as GM, Joe Douglas has only added ONE above average player to the team. That is abysmal. 

One player?

Thats it?

 

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13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

If you're going to talk about what Douglas has added to the roster, you have to extend that discussion to draft picks.  Gaining two 1st rounders and a 3rd rounder (I.E. essentially a Khalil Mack package) for a tremendously overrated Box Safety counts for something, no?  Those are assets. 

Becton and Mims will be above average players in this league, with Becton being elite and Mims ending up a bonafide WR1 or at least a high-end WR2.  I also think at least one other player from the 2020 draft class will end up in that category as well, with Bryce Hall being my top candidate at the moment.  

I also think McGovern will figure it out, whether it be at C or G.  He was most certainly an above average G/C prior to his arrival in New York, and his dropoff in play is unexplainable at the moment.

I don't give Douglas credit for trading away good players because any GM can do that. The Jags also did it, and they are in the Trevor Sweepstakes with the Jets.

You are jumping the gun on Mims.

 

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6 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Outside of your Punter, Becton and maybe Mims, the rest of the draft has been forgettable.

Outside of Becton, Mims, our punter and oh, yeah a corner and ooops a S who have played well in limited play and the OL we havent seen, wait, thats it?

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5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This is patently false, and demonstrative of a fundamental lack of insight into what he was trying to accomplish this past offseason.

Which free agent has he signed that is playing above replacement level?

Wasting an entire free agent class is not a good way to build for a future QB. That cap could have been rolled over instead of wasting it on the current players.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Outside of Becton, Mims, our punter and oh, yeah a corner and ooops a S and the OL we havent seen, wait, thats it?

Just because you say their name, doesn't mean they are good or even average.

Ashtyn has been below average.

Bryce has played how many games? A rookie QB had nearly 300 yards passing in the first half during his first start.

And that OL you haven't seen cus he can't beat out anybody on a bad O-line? Sounds encouraging.

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45 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Bryce has played how many games? A rookie QB had nearly 300 yards passing in the first half during his first start.

What does this have to do with Bryce?  He didn’t give up those yards.

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8 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

I don't give Douglas credit for trading away good players because any GM can do that.

Not for two 1sts and a 3rd for a Box Safety, they can't.  Especially not one who was openly shooting his way out of town at the time.  No way Seattle does that trade over again in hindsight.  He's proven to be a shrewd negotiator in trades so far.  Getting max value for a player is an important skill for a GM that not everyone is good at.

Meanwhile, Mike Maccagnan would have 100 % handed Adams a 5-year deal worth $100M, with $40M+ in guarantees.  So don't tell me what "any GM can do".

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13 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Which free agent has he signed that is playing above replacement level?

Wasting an entire free agent class is not a good way to build for a future QB. That cap could have been rolled over instead of wasting it on the current players.

You have to be able to field a team of some sort.  So in your mind, his two options were to go all in and essentially spend to the cap OR spend nothing in FA and rely on a roster full of UDFA's?

The option Douglas went with was the best one.  Knowing that the roster was sh*t when he inherited it, he went with bringing in a bunch of 1-year signees so the team would be prepared to hit the reset button if need be.  Well, here we are.  The reset button is about to be hit, and the team isn't tied to a bunch of a bad contracts.  

A top 2 pick, four first rounders in the next 2 seasons, and a lot of cap space (with minimal dead money) is actually a fairly envious position to be in for a team not ready to contend.  The Macc mistakes are basically all gone and this team will be built in Douglas' vision.  I'm good with that.

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9 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

Which free agent has he signed that is playing above replacement level?

Wasting an entire free agent class is not a good way to build for a future QB. That cap could have been rolled over instead of wasting it on the current players.

It was pretty plain to see that the goal of this offseason was to begin to build through the draft and solidify the offensive line.  Both of those were accomplished, even if the line isn't good.  It's no longer terrible, and that was enough.

The other goal was to sign no bad contracts.  There was not a single player signed that is expected to be here more than another year.  Every single player was "hold the fort."  That was the plan.

And, the Jets head into next season with the 4th most cap space.  So, your point about rolling over cap space is irrelevant, as they're in great shape already.  Still, I suspect the plan will continue to be not adding top tier FAs this year.  Perhaps a WR, but I'd guess the Jets go into 2022 in the top quartile of cap space again.  At that point, hopefully they'll have three reasonably successful drafts, and higher-end complimentary pieces can be added in Lawrence/Fields Year 2.

Again, nothing was blown.  Douglas fought for a very long deal presumably because he knew this was a long term reclamation project.  You can hand-waive Macc all you want, but the guy was demonstrably the worst GM in football for his entire tenure, and probably by a pretty large margin.

In sum, build through the draft, and no bad contracts.  Successfully accomplished.  The Jets were never competing this year, so zero wins vs. 6 wins means nothing.

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In his only draft opportunity so far he added impact players with top picks at positions that provide the most significant assistance to the QB.  The team was so devoid of talent and quality coaching that we need continued good drafting from JD.  Your premise is faulty. 

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A QB doesn't solve all your problems. Look at Matt Stafford. Despite having a franchise QB for years, the Lions have never had sustained success.
There is a real chance the Jets go 0-16. Joe Douglas wasn't trying to tank, he was just that bad at constructing a roster. Now people wanna praise him for trading away a elite defender and hitting on a 1st round pick? Idzik did the same thing, and we know how that turned out.
He let a bad WR group get worse. The two starting corners he signed have already been cut. Despite major investments in the offensive line, the unit is still garbage outside of Becton. In one full off-season, Mekhi Becton and maybe Denzel Mims are the only players that he has added, that have proven they should be apart of the Jets long term plans. At that rate, the Jets will look like the current Lions. 
 
Say what you want about Gase, but his teams have never looked this bad.
Say what you want about Mac, but you can't put this all on him after Douglas whiffed on several free agent signing that should have improved the team.
Say what you want about Darnold, but weapons matter and hide flaws. Hopkins and Diggs turned their QBs into MVP candidates. Burrow and Herbert are off to a fast start because they have plenty of weapons. Meanwhile Tua just got benched because his only weapon was Devante Parker.
This is rediculous .. in his one draft he got the best OT .. and what appears to be a likely no. 1 at worst no 2 wideout. Wtf.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app

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1 hour ago, hamat711 said:

A QB doesn't solve all your problems. Look at Matt Stafford. Despite having a franchise QB for years, the Lions have never had sustained success.

There is a real chance the Jets go 0-16. Joe Douglas wasn't trying to tank, he was just that bad at constructing a roster. Now people wanna praise him for trading away a elite defender and hitting on a 1st round pick? Idzik did the same thing, and we know how that turned out.

He let a bad WR group get worse. The two starting corners he signed have already been cut. Despite major investments in the offensive line, the unit is still garbage outside of Becton. In one full off-season, Mekhi Becton and maybe Denzel Mims are the only players that he has added, that have proven they should be apart of the Jets long term plans. At that rate, the Jets will look like the current Lions. 

 

Say what you want about Gase, but his teams have never looked this bad.

Say what you want about Mac, but you can't put this all on him after Douglas whiffed on several free agent signing that should have improved the team.

Say what you want about Darnold, but weapons matter and hide flaws. Hopkins and Diggs turned their QBs into MVP candidates. Burrow and Herbert are off to a fast start because they have plenty of weapons. Meanwhile Tua just got benched because his only weapon was Devante Parker.

Jesus, can you guys all go hang out in one thread and stop messing up the board? 

For the love of god.....

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24 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

This is rediculous .. in his one draft he got the best OT .. and what appears to be a likely no. 1 at worst no 2 wideout. Wtf.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app
 

That's it?!  I expect at least 4 HOFers in every draft.

image.png.5080d8743cca9a7ede73b50ba592d863.png

 

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9 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Just because you say their name, doesn't mean they are good or even average.

Ashtyn has been below average.

Bryce has played how many games? A rookie QB had nearly 300 yards passing in the first half during his first start.

And that OL you haven't seen cus he can't beat out anybody on a bad O-line? Sounds encouraging.

Just because why?  

Why has Ashtyn been below average to you?  Give examples, what have you seen of him?  You know instead of taking a name and saying hes below average

You didnt watch Hall play if all you do is mindlessly tell me how many yards Herbert passed for

The OL you havent seen hasnt been healthy, so hasnt been able to beat anybody out but proves you're just talking

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8 hours ago, hamat711 said:

A QB doesn't solve all your problems. Look at Matt Stafford. Despite having a franchise QB for years, the Lions have never had sustained success.

There is a real chance the Jets go 0-16. Joe Douglas wasn't trying to tank, he was just that bad at constructing a roster. Now people wanna praise him for trading away a elite defender and hitting on a 1st round pick? Idzik did the same thing, and we know how that turned out.

He let a bad WR group get worse. The two starting corners he signed have already been cut. Despite major investments in the offensive line, the unit is still garbage outside of Becton. In one full off-season, Mekhi Becton and maybe Denzel Mims are the only players that he has added, that have proven they should be apart of the Jets long term plans. At that rate, the Jets will look like the current Lions. 

 

Say what you want about Gase, but his teams have never looked this bad.

Say what you want about Mac, but you can't put this all on him after Douglas whiffed on several free agent signing that should have improved the team.

Say what you want about Darnold, but weapons matter and hide flaws. Hopkins and Diggs turned their QBs into MVP candidates. Burrow and Herbert are off to a fast start because they have plenty of weapons. Meanwhile Tua just got benched because his only weapon was Devante Parker.

This is silly. It's absurd to think JD did not support Sammy. The fact is,  the Jets are so bad of a team lacking in talent that's it's IMPOSSIBLE to think JD was going to fix all of it in one offseason. These conspiracy theories are just that- and SILLY.

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JD has made a Mac team worse and may very well end up with the worst team in the history of the league.  
 

Now,, the only way you think he can do better is if you believe he understood what he was doing. That he had already given up on Sam and purposely cleaned house and prepared to start the rebuild next year.   If you believe he was trying to win this year and honestly thought he built a competitive team - then we’re in a lot of trouble.  He will destroy whatever QB we bring in. 
 

We’ll know after the draft based on what he does. 

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21 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

This is silly. It's absurd to think JD did not support Sammy. The fact is,  the Jets are so bad of a team lacking in talent that's it's IMPOSSIBLE to think JD was going to fix all of it in one offseason. These conspiracy theories are just that- and SILLY.

Fix things? He made them worse!

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1 minute ago, FidelioJet said:

Fix things? He made them worse!

Well, wins/losses wise you're correct. His FA moves, overhauled OL? Blew up in his face. This OL is clearly no better than last year Becton aside. 

However,  his draft appears to be pretty good and that is in sharp contrast to anything Mac did.

He also signed all those FA on short term, prove yourself type deals. He can get out of those deals immediately. 

Either way, he was DEFINITELY attempting to make the team better or else he would not have signed anyone for the OL.

If he truly didn't give a sh*t about Sammy he would have left the OL just the way it was last season and let Sammy flounder.

So once again this is just a silly conspiracy theory. JD was trying to make the team better with a limited budget. Unfortunately, he got what he paid for instead. 

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Idzik hit on one 1st round pick out of three. 33% success rate.

JD has hit on one 1st round pick out of one. 100% success rate.

Very small sample size? Absolutely. But arguing that Idzik did as much is as JD asinine given the above.

(Always wanted to use that word ... :-) ).

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