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hamat711

Joe Douglas failed to support Sam Darnold, so why do people think he will do better with Trevor Lawrence?

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8 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Which free agent has he signed that is playing above replacement level?

Wasting an entire free agent class is not a good way to build for a future QB. That cap could have been rolled over instead of wasting it on the current players.

Hey Bills fan. Darnold just sucks and JD has had one off season. Way too early for this bullsh*t.

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9 hours ago, hamat711 said:

A QB doesn't solve all your problems. Look at Matt Stafford. Despite having a franchise QB for years, the Lions have never had sustained success.

There is a real chance the Jets go 0-16. Joe Douglas wasn't trying to tank, he was just that bad at constructing a roster. Now people wanna praise him for trading away a elite defender and hitting on a 1st round pick? Idzik did the same thing, and we know how that turned out.

He let a bad WR group get worse. The two starting corners he signed have already been cut. Despite major investments in the offensive line, the unit is still garbage outside of Becton. In one full off-season, Mekhi Becton and maybe Denzel Mims are the only players that he has added, that have proven they should be apart of the Jets long term plans. At that rate, the Jets will look like the current Lions. 

 

Say what you want about Gase, but his teams have never looked this bad.

Say what you want about Mac, but you can't put this all on him after Douglas whiffed on several free agent signing that should have improved the team.

Say what you want about Darnold, but weapons matter and hide flaws. Hopkins and Diggs turned their QBs into MVP candidates. Burrow and Herbert are off to a fast start because they have plenty of weapons. Meanwhile Tua just got benched because his only weapon was Devante Parker.

Buffalo sucks. Glad Arizona beat them.

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18 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, wins/losses wise you're correct. His FA moves, overhauled OL? Blew up in his face. This OL is clearly no better than last year Becton aside. 

However,  his draft appears to be pretty good and that is in sharp contrast to anything Mac did.

He also signed all those FA on short term, prove yourself type deals. He can get out of those deals immediately. 

Either way, he was DEFINITELY attempting to make the team better or else he would not have signed anyone for the OL.

If he truly didn't give a sh*t about Sammy he would have left the OL just the way it was last season and let Sammy flounder.

So once again this is just a silly conspiracy theory. JD was trying to make the team better with a limited budget. Unfortunately, he got what he paid for instead. 

sammy

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18 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Idzik hit on one 1st round pick out of three. 33% success rate.

JD has hit on one 1st round pick out of one. 100% success rate.

Very small sample size? Absolutely. But arguing that Idzik did as much is as JD asinine given the above.

(Always wanted to use that word ... :-) ).

Which first round pick did Idzik hit on.  The one that can seem to stay healthy.  Let’s not put him the HOF quite yet.

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26 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, wins/losses wise you're correct. His FA moves, overhauled OL? Blew up in his face. This OL is clearly no better than last year Becton aside. 

However,  his draft appears to be pretty good and that is in sharp contrast to anything Mac did.

He also signed all those FA on short term, prove yourself type deals. He can get out of those deals immediately. 

Either way, he was DEFINITELY attempting to make the team better or else he would not have signed anyone for the OL.

If he truly didn't give a sh*t about Sammy he would have left the OL just the way it was last season and let Sammy flounder.

So once again this is just a silly conspiracy theory. JD was trying to make the team better with a limited budget. Unfortunately, he got what he paid for instead. 

Conspiracy theory?

To me, JD”s was very clear that he had moved on from Sam a long time ago.  You simply don’t do what he did to someone you believe is a franchise QB.

He basically did the bare minimum to start with a. Clean slate next year.  You do actually have to field a team - so he signed other teams back-ups to mostly one year deals.  IMO it was obvious there was no plan to be competitive this year.  The alternative to that is much worse.

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45 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

JD has made a Mac team worse and may very well end up with the worst team in the history of the league.  
 

Now,, the only way you think he can do better is if you believe he understood what he was doing. That he had already given up on Sam and purposely cleaned house and prepared to start the rebuild next year.   If you believe he was trying to win this year and honestly thought he built a competitive team - then we’re in a lot of trouble.  He will destroy whatever QB we bring in. 
 

We’ll know after the draft based on what he does. 

And if you believe in the draft the way that JD does, if you believe you have to have a FQB as I would bet JD does and you dont believe Sam has shown you that hes that guy, blowing it all up to start it up makes so much sense.  Especially given the draft picks and the two QBs that are at the top of this draft right now along with the tons of cap space cleared for this offseason.  Hes going to do a massive rebuild and if done right there can be fairly quick turn around with basically a whole new team to watch.  

This is going to be an incredibly important offseason 

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9 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Wrong.

Douglas was never rebuilding the mess he was left behind in one off-season.  That has been abundantly clear to anyone paying attention and his actions speak louder than his words.

This is true but he also didn't plan on tanking this season. When it became clear Sam couldn't get this team over the hump, it evolved into that. JD was building a winner up to that point.

The OP is obviously trolling but JD needs to be held to account. Other than Mims and Becton, this draft is about as bad as any we have had. I don't see anyone in this draft sticking besides them. Davis is terrible, we didn't need Morgan, Zuinga or whatever that pass rushers name is might as well be Polite. They have played the same amount of snaps for us. Not one FA pickup will be on the team past 2021 with the outside chance of Fant if he ever stays on the field. 

I have no idea really what JD has done to distinguish himself so far other than hitting on 2 high draft picks. 

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13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Which first round pick did Idzik hit on.  The one that can seem to stay healthy.  Let’s not put him the HOF quite yet.

Sheldumb. And I was being reasonably kind when I said "hit". ;-) 

I was simply pointing out the flaw in the OPs argument about "hitting" on one first round pick somehow making a GM a success. That's a minimum expectation in my book. (Cough cough, Macc, cough cough).

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9 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

Douglas has had 1 offseason.  This is a silly thread.

One in which he had what is shaping up to be a nice draft and THE GREATEST TRADE IN FRANCHISE HISTORY - BY A LOT.

The only thought-provoking aspect of this thread is... are all Buffalo fans this stupid?

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7 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And if you believe in the draft the way that JD does, if you believe you have to have a FQB as I would bet JD does and you dont believe Sam has shown you that hes that guy, blowing it all up to start it up makes so much sense.  Especially given the draft picks and the two QBs that are at the top of this draft right now along with the tons of cap space cleared for this offseason.  Hes going to do a massive rebuild and if done right there can be fairly quick turn around with basically a whole new team to watch.  

This is going to be an incredibly important offseason 

Seriously? You thought when this season started JD was blowing up the team? What tipped you off? Not signing Anderson who he actually tried to sign but failed,? Trading away a disgruntled SS? 

The fact is this team became what it is on JD watch and it wasn't by design. 

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On 11/25/2020 at 8:12 AM, More Cowbell said:

Seriously? You thought when this season started JD was blowing up the team? What tipped you off? Not signing Anderson who he actually tried to sign but failed,? Trading away a disgruntled SS? 

The fact is this team became what it is on JD watch and it wasn't by design. 

100%, yes I do.

What tipped me off?  That he took talent off the team and didnt replace it this year?  That he didnt use $30-$40 mil of cap space on WRs or CBs?  Didnt go for a single big name type FA that would have helped the team this season and beyond?  Especially when all the WRs went down, JD didnt even try to sign someone to help by signing a replacement?  

Fact is if JD was happy with the team he put out on the field on opening day, if he thought he did all he could do to win games he needs to be fired today, immediately.  The Jets dont suck and lose games because JD missed on FA's, they suck and lose games because JD didnt sign players that could help win games.  

So yeah, I believe this is a tear up and why he didnt do the usual slow build up

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8 hours ago, Gastineau Lives said:

If someone can be poignant and astute AND goofy, I'm all for it. We could use a guy like that. 

I would like to accept your job offer here at Jets Nation.  

I have a few questions;

1) What pay scale will I begin at?

2) Is there private washrooms available for senior staff?

3) Will I get weekends off?

4) Will I at any time meet Joe Namath?

5) How close will my office be to Tom Shane?

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Douglass did not have the perfect draft.  But he did get a LT to protect the blind side and it appears he as gotten a WR that could actually be real football players.

He totally missed on Anderson and went cheap on the OL in Free Agency.

As far as Darnold is concerned forget the weapons, his biggest issue is right now he can't stay healthy. You can't have your Franchise QB missing significant time every year because he cannot stay healthy.

If they go 0-16 and Lawrence decides to come out then you take him first. If they are not picking first and are picking second or third if I were Douglass I would look to move down and acquire as many picks as I can. 

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10 hours ago, hamat711 said:

A QB doesn't solve all your problems. Look at Matt Stafford. Despite having a franchise QB for years, the Lions have never had sustained success.

There is a real chance the Jets go 0-16. Joe Douglas wasn't trying to tank, he was just that bad at constructing a roster. Now people wanna praise him for trading away a elite defender and hitting on a 1st round pick? Idzik did the same thing, and we know how that turned out.

He let a bad WR group get worse. The two starting corners he signed have already been cut. Despite major investments in the offensive line, the unit is still garbage outside of Becton. In one full off-season, Mekhi Becton and maybe Denzel Mims are the only players that he has added, that have proven they should be apart of the Jets long term plans. At that rate, the Jets will look like the current Lions. 

 

Say what you want about Gase, but his teams have never looked this bad.

Say what you want about Mac, but you can't put this all on him after Douglas whiffed on several free agent signing that should have improved the team.

Say what you want about Darnold, but weapons matter and hide flaws. Hopkins and Diggs turned their QBs into MVP candidates. Burrow and Herbert are off to a fast start because they have plenty of weapons. Meanwhile Tua just got benched because his only weapon was Devante Parker.

This is just wrong thinking.  Douglas did quite a bit by revamping the oline and bringing in guys like Perriman.  And let’s not forget about launching slugs like trumaine.  The real issues are the oline hasn’t played together as a unit and the receivers haven’t been able to get on the field.  Are those Douglas fault?  Both Mims and Perriman have been pretty effective when they’ve played in the same game.  I’m not sure which free agent you think he whiffed on unless it was Mack.  The rest haven’t been top tier but that also haven’t been bottom feeders.

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The Jets currently stink and it’s everybody’s fault. JD, the Johnson’s, Gase and the players all have a significant hand in this.

However, if the premise of the OP is to sew doubt in the future performance of Joe D, it’s EXTREMELY difficult to make a convincing argument with only 1 year of data. And yes, 1 year, I don’t count the first when he came in after FA and the draft and had no hope to improve the roster. Add in the fact that in his second year, he was trying to be prudent and conservative due to uncertainty surrounding COVID and the cap, and I don’t believe we have a true sense what Joe D is truly about yet.

We know he’s made mistakes, hell, he’s admitted it. He’s also done some good things, so let’s give him credit as well. As to the OPs question as why do we think he’ll do better with Lawrence? We don’t, however, he has one advantage with TL that he doesn’t have with Sam: TIME. Time is running out on Sam’s rookie contract and for that reason alone, it would be difficult to stay with him if we land the #1 pick. Another hope with JD is his continued focus on the OLINE. He has shown he will not sleep until that unit is where he wants it to be. But he’s also not going to go out and shell out money on FAs looking for a quick fix. To build a proper oline, you need key pieces to be drafted. He got one last year, I believe he will get another this coming year.

Past performance is no guarantee of future results, however, they do provide data to project whether someone may achieve success. There is simply not enough data on Joe D to say one way or another, but his focus on the oline and finding weapons for Sam is certainly encouraging. That said, you have to make the right picks in the draft and FA, so this can certainly flop as well.

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11 hours ago, hamat711 said:

 Joe Douglas wasn't trying to tank, he was just that bad at constructing a roster. Now people wanna praise him for trading away a elite defender and hitting on a 1st round pick? ...He let a bad WR group get worse. 

Say what you want about Gase, but his teams have never looked this bad.

 

Hi Adam Gase, how are you?

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1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Douglas has had 1 offseason.  This is a silly thread.

Seriously.

He had 1 draft.   He drafted a LT and a WR with his first 2 picks, and a running back with a later pick.   He brought in a new RT via free agency.   How much exactly can a GM do in 1 offseason when the team has this little talent?

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11 hours ago, hamat711 said:

I'm must giving a outsiders perspective.

If you check my history, I predicted this would happen.

It was clear as day to anyone who doesn't wear green colored glasses.

So here is a perspective from someone who watches a great deal of jet games and is in tune with the team. JD outside of Robby which is still debatable since he has come down to earth with Carolina has had to clean up 5+ years of Idzik's and Macag's absolute sh*tshow of drafting. The past five years have been nothing short of a travesty for this franchise and if the prior GM did his job good or at least halfway respectable we wouldn't be in this situation. This is not on JD and he needs sometime to clean up the crap that was going on for a very long time. Think of  it as a fumigation to get of the roaches and parasites of of Florham park .

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

Seriously? You thought when this season started JD was blowing up the team? What tipped you off? Not signing Anderson who he actually tried to sign but failed,? Trading away a disgruntled SS? 

The fact is this team became what it is on JD watch and it wasn't by design. 

The Jets as an organization are going to give Sam Darnold the last games of this season to play them out of having no choice but to pick Lawrence........ whether this was by design originally or through ineptitude those are the facts going forward now......

There will be minimal excuses.. Sam will be healthy and have the same players Flacco and has to be at least as good as Flacco and win games or he is gone!

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Douglas certainly isn’t an innovator or someone that’s going to turn the course of this franchise around by himself. You just have to hope he has a better draft process/eye for talent than the previous guys. Keep it simple, the Jets are never going to be at the forefront of change and we just have to live with that. At least he seems knowledgeable enough to pull off trading down, which Maccagnan couldn’t do. 

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I've been tough on JD but we really can't write him off until giving him a chance to (first) A.) Utilize his 4 round picks over the next two drafts (due to trading away Jamal for two 1st rounders + an extra 3rd) along with a chance to B.) Utilize his A+ available salary cap space over the next two offseasons. 

So for any of us to sit here and pretend as if 2020's Jets roster is his "finished project" would be extremely unfair of us. 

Heck. He might even be able to trade away Sam Darnold for two 2nd round picks in order to add to our draft capital that's already #1 over the next two drafts (in order to build around Trevor Lawrence). 

And if the likes of Mekhi Becton and Denzel Mims are prime examples of A+ blue chips prospects with his 1st and 2nd round drafting ability?

He's going to turn us around as quickly as Jon Gruden has turned around his Raiders....

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I like Douglas. He had a good draft. His one mistake was not retaining Robby. Mcgovern has been a surprise disappointment. He graded out very well last year. He has guys on one year prove it deals. This will be the most important offseason,for him as long as he's the GM here. Big money to spend. Big decisions in upcoming draft. 

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1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Douglas has had 1 offseason.  This is a silly thread.

What do you expect from a fan who's fanbase loves putting women through flaming tables

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

100%, yes I do.

What tipped me off?  That he took talent off the team and didnt replace it this year?  That he didnt use $30-$40 mil of cap space on WRs or CBs?  Didnt go for a single big name type FA that would have helped the team this season?  Especially when all the WRs went down, JD didnt even try to sign someone to help?  

Fact is it JD was happy with the team he put out on the field on opening day, if he thought he did all he could do to win games he needs to be fired today.  The Jets dont suck and lose games because JD missed on FA's, they suck and lose games because JD didnt sign players that could help.  

So yeah, I believe this is a tear up and why he didnt do the usual slow build up

I don't think JD believes in signing FA unless he is a player that finishes the picture and he thought the team was improving with the draft picks he made as well as the tape and glue he brought in to fix the OL. He didn't plan a tank for Trevor Lawrence. He didn't think he actually made team worse than last season. 

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11 hours ago, Larz said:

JD didn’t deal 3 picks for sam

settle

He didn’t deal 3 second round picks for Sam. He dealt an in the box safety who required $17m a year contract for 2 first rounders and a 3rd.

He inherited a team that had been one of the worst drafting teams the previous half decade. 

He inherited a team that sign Lev Bell and Mosley to huge contracts. 

The first year he was hired it was after FA and the draft. So he has had ONE offseason to go to work and fix one of the least talented rosters in the league. 

Settle down folks. 

My only issue with JD is at 0-10 it’s time to fire Gase, IR Sam, bench Flacco and play James Morgan. 

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He drafted Becton and he drafted Mims. If Becton can stay healthy you are easily talking top 3 at his position for possibly a decade. Mims like most Jets rookies got banged up early but every time he's on the field he gets a little better and last game he gave us all something to look forward to. Joes done good, Joe has done bad but this team was never going to be fixed after a decade of dreadful drafting in a couple free agencies and one draft. So I understand you want to troll a bit and that's perfectly find but if you keep spewing this pollution I will change your name to Hazmat. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving. 

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Can we give JD 3 drafts to see how his players turn out? Or do we want him to dole out big money and win free agency cuz you know how well that typically works out.

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9 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

The Jets as an organization are going to give Sam Darnold the last games of this season to play them out of having no choice but to pick Lawrence........ whether this was by design originally or through ineptitude those are the facts going forward now......

There will be minimal excuses.. Sam will be healthy and have the same players Flacco and has to be at least as good as Flacco and win games or he is gone!

Darnold is gone already IMHO. They (Darnold and the Jets) have put themselves in a no win situation. If Darnold comes back and acutally wins some games and the Jets drop from the 1st pick to say 3rd or 4th pick he make the Jamal Adams hate look like kindergarten stuff compared to what he will get from Jets fans.

A majority of Jets fans have already moved on from Darnold. At this point I don't even care anymore because even if the Jets get Lawrence they will find a way to screw it up with either another trainwreck of a coach or they won't build around him, etc, etc, etc.

Face it folks. SOJ forever.

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11 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

You did predict and you were right.  

However there are two reasons why you are wrong.....

First JD seems like he is an outstanding judge of talent. His draft picks look like players and that will help the next QB for next year Sam, Lawrence or Fields.   

Second, JD is admits mistakes and is willing to make adjustments off if those  mistakes. 
 

JD based on what he has done so far on Becton and Mims get an A- to me. 
 

Oh and by the way I lived Buffalo during their SB runs — went to UB for graduate school.  

In two years we are going to get ya!

Let's pull the reigns in on that, he still had a part in assembling a roster that could go 0-16.

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2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

And if you believe in the draft the way that JD does, if you believe you have to have a FQB as I would bet JD does and you dont believe Sam has shown you that hes that guy, blowing it all up to start it up makes so much sense.  Especially given the draft picks and the two QBs that are at the top of this draft right now along with the tons of cap space cleared for this offseason.  Hes going to do a massive rebuild and if done right there can be fairly quick turn around with basically a whole new team to watch.  

This is going to be an incredibly important offseason 

Yes.

The most important off-season I can remember.  Not just because of landing the right players or even drafting well - but it will let us know if JD knows what he's doing.  Will he be the first GM we've had in 20 years that knows how to build a football team or just another hack who's in way over his head.

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Crusher said:

He drafted Becton and he drafted Mims. If Becton can stay healthy you are easily talking top 3 at his position for possibly a decade. Mims like most Jets rookies got banged up early but every time he's on the field he gets a little better and last game he gave us all something to look forward to. Joes done good, Joe has done bad but this team was never going to be fixed after a decade of dreadful drafting in a couple free agencies and one draft. So I understand you want to troll a bit and that's perfectly find but if you keep spewing this pollution I will change your name to Hazmat. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving. 

Those 2 draft picks and the haul he got for that overrated stiff Adams are the only reasons to be optimistic about JD

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12 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Those 2 draft picks and the haul he got for that overrated stiff Adams are the only reasons to be optimistic about JD

To think we only had to wait 1 decade for this. 

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4 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

I don't think JD believes in signing FA unless he is a player that finishes the picture and he thought the team was improving with the draft picks he made as well as the tape and glue he brought in to fix the OL. He didn't plan a tank for Trevor Lawrence. He didn't think he actually made team worse than last season. 

OK, then youre telling us he thought he was improving the team, did all he could do.

Woody should fire him, immediately 

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