What was your Darnold tipping point?

[flgreen]

Not sure there really was a "tipping point" with Sam.  Never really got the whole "Suck for Sam" thing.  He had a great Rose Bowl, then a meh last season.

I thought he would be a decent NFL QB, but nothing special.  Still think that.

Think he just fell apart this year with all the injuries, and an OL that never played together before.  Think it's a major mistake to start him again at this point.  IMO it's very possible after his rest,  with the WR's getting healthy,  the OL starting to know one another a bit, that he does what he did last year, flash a bit down the streach and really shaft the Jets  with a few useless wins at this point.

It would just be so Jetsy. 

[slimjasi]

I started to become skeptical last year after the Ghosts game and the Jags game but then was somewhat encouraged by his second half last season. 
 

However, when I saw how bad he looked on opening day this season, I was firmly off the bandwagon for good. 
 

To me, the 3rd year is always a make or break year for young QBs. If you haven’t shown that you are a franchise guy in your first two years, you have to show it in year 3 (especially with how rookie contracts work in today’s NFL).

After week 1 this year, I was out. 

[New York Mick]

When Gase was hired. 

[slimjasi]

4 hours ago, SR24 said:

The first few drives of the Buffalo game this year.

Yep. This 

[ryu79]

When I realized these threads would never stop until he goes somewhere else. 

Between him and Jamal I don't which gives people more of high to start repetitive threads about. I'll be delighted for the couple of months we get with Lawrence before the bust and long throw accuracy threads start (irrespective of how he plays).

In seriousness, once it became clear we were going to finish with the worst record in the league and the team wasn't going to do a thing to help - the math made his end here a fait accompli.

[SR24]

1 hour ago, slimjasi said:

Yep. This 

Such a sad way to start the year lol

[Dcat]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

Week 1 this year at Buffalo. Couldn’t hit the side of a barn after being quarantined in Jordan Palmer’s House of Quarterbacks for 3 months. 

SAR I

^Same for me.  That game felt like visiting a morgue.

[Jetster]

14 hours ago, Dcat said:

^Same for me.  That game felt like visiting a morgue.

His 1st 3 throws in that game were easy get the ball out on time & accurate easy azz throws & he missed them all forcing us to punt, completely ruining any chance of creating any rhythmn. His consistency does not exist, he's a one step forward two steps back QB with his inexplicable interceptions into triple coverage with a WIDE OPEN 2nd option on the replay. 

[Rangers9]

If you want to look at his worst game this year it would have to be vs the Colts and two pick 6s. After lack of success but not overly spectacular terrible performances I started having doubts. But this is a difficult year to evaluate players and give up on them. They are dealing with things we don't even know about off the field. It's hard to judge and fire people considering what is going on. But if you watched yesterday's games we saw two very experienced Qbs Alex Smith and Andy Dalton throw terrible pick 6s. You've seen a lot of that this season incl from Brady. So I don't give up on Sam with good coaching, an O line and a better team he should be OK. I keep him. 

[NYDreamer]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:35 AM, BroadwayRay said:

As we come upon another butt fumble anniversary, I was thinking ...

When did you become firmly convinced Darnold wasn’t the answer? For me, it was the New England game last year. Up until then, I saw enough good intermixed with the bad to keep me hopeful that he could become the franchise QB I envisioned when the Jets drafted him. That all changed with that one mind-boggling horror show of a game. It had nothing to do with the “ghosts.” It just became obvious to me he didn’t have the instincts and the football IQ to get it done. 

I still support Darnold and believe he can be a very good QB with talent around him and upfront.  Lets see how he does with his top 3 WR's in the line up.  

I am keeping Darnold if we do not get the first pick for Lawrence and building around him.

 

[UntouchableCrew]

Week 1 of this year against the Bills. I had doubts after several bad games in 2019 but still had hope.

3rd year in the NFL, 2nd year in this system. He looked hopeless, indecisive, and scared in the pocket. Made cripplingly bad decisions. And on top of that -- he wasn't accurate which wasn't even a flaw I'd seen in his game before. Contrasting him directly with Allen was eye opening, both physically and in terms of their decision making.

If you haven't figured it out by year three it's pretty unlikely you ever will.

[bitonti]

My tipping point was that suck for Sam 17 thread


Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

[TuscanyTile2]

23 hours ago, SAR I said:

Yes.  His play proved to me what some of you were telling me all summer and I refused to believe.  That Buffalo game made me a believer.  He should have come out sharp as a knife after 3 months at Jordan Palmer's House of Quarterbacks and he couldn't hit the side of a barn. 

Thread asks for the tipping point; the Buffalo game tipped me.  From there, it was his lack of passion, lack of fundamentals, and more injuries.  He's a dumber Chad Pennington.  He's a lesser Mark Sanchez.

SAR I

So in a year with no preseason games, very little practice (due to Covid) and a brand new OL, you gave up on Sam 1 game into the season?  This after having him as the #4 QB in the AFC going into the season.

Got it.

[CTJetsFan]

I haven't reached the tipping point yet.

I said before the season started that I wouldn't/couldn't evaluate him (factoring in the Gase damage) until I saw him play with the full complement of weapons that JD intended for him to have. Not the Smiths, Hogans and Berrios of the world. That has yet to happen for a full game

However - there was a brief period last week where I thought he was bowing out on the season when he seemed ok with not playing vs SD. Almost lost me there but he's supposedly playing this week which tells me last week was truly shoulder related.

The 3 WRs and Becton are back (although I thought I heard Herndon may be out). Next few games will tell me a lot.

That being said, I do feel that if we end up with the #1 pick, we need to draft a QB. The economics of football (rookie contract scale & Darnold's 5th year option) dictate that. At worst, we have a potential franchise QB in the stable and the Darnold era is over. At best, we have that plus a Sam Darnold who has increased his market value by looking better the last 6 weeks of the season and is under contract with us for 1 more year.

[More Cowbell]

On 11/26/2020 at 12:35 AM, BroadwayRay said:

As we come upon another butt fumble anniversary, I was thinking ...

When did you become firmly convinced Darnold wasn’t the answer? For me, it was the New England game last year. Up until then, I saw enough good intermixed with the bad to keep me hopeful that he could become the franchise QB I envisioned when the Jets drafted him. That all changed with that one mind-boggling horror show of a game. It had nothing to do with the “ghosts.” It just became obvious to me he didn’t have the instincts and the football IQ to get it done. 

For me it was just this season and the way it has gone. I don't see Darnold recovering from this. It's best for everyone to just start over. 

I will say I would be ok trading the Lawrence pick and drafting someone later like Wilson or just keeping Darnold around and take the next generational QB. Seems we getting them in bunches this season.

[hamat711]

19 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Lol, no. Darnold showed more potential his rookie season, and was also better statistically.  

Allen had more yards per game, more TDs and less turnovers per game in their rookie years.

He did this with the worst supporting cast in the league by far. His top WRs were Zay Jones and Robert Foster. Zay Jones is the 5th WR on the Raiders and Foster is on a practice squad. He had a bottom two O-line and the worst supporting running game in the league.

[Grandy]

I had almost full confidence coming off of his rookie year as he looked great to close of that season. The Ghosts game really harmed my confidence in him, but he rebounded down the stretch so it didn't exactly bury the hatchet. However week 17 against Buffalo made me feel kinda iffy. I did start to feel uneasy when camp reports came out that said he was good, but developed a tendency to just outright miss receivers, which was never really a thing before.

Week 1 of this year killed a ton of confidence, as his missing receivers concern was on full display. That game he looked more like a rookie than at any point in his career. Then his falling apart against Indianapolis really sunk the knife in there for me. 

He just lacks the "killer instinct" that the great QB's have. His confidence falters easily, and when pressure is applied he overthinks himself and loses all composure. He plays too scared and unsure of himself and I don't believe this is just on Gase. At times even in his rookie season he'd just duck it and make a terrible play, this also came back against NE the next year where the guy was just throwing the ball up for grabs. No matter what happens to you in a game, or how bad your team might be that is unacceptable. 

 

[NYJ1]

I still very much think Sammy has franchise QB potential. The JETS, and no one else, have ruined Sammy this season. They forced Sammy to work with a sh*t supporting cast and they got sh*t in return. I can only hope JD is smart enough to realize that the ONLY way Sammy can be properly evaluated is if he builds an at least competent supporting cast around him. Placing him in a straight up QB competition is the only fair way to do things. After two years of playing under an incompetent GM he deserves a FAIR opportunity with the Jets playing against another great young potential QB.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

17 minutes ago, NYJ1 said:

I still very much think Sammy has franchise QB potential. The JETS, and no one else, have ruined Sammy this season. They forced Sammy to work with a sh*t supporting cast and they got sh*t in return. I can only hope JD is smart enough to realize that the ONLY way Sammy can be properly evaluated is if he builds an at least competent supporting cast around him. Placing him in a straight up QB competition is the only fair way to do things. After two years of playing under an incompetent GM he deserves a FAIR opportunity with the Jets playing against another great young potential QB.

sammy

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So in a year with no preseason games, very little practice (due to Covid) and a brand new OL, you gave up on Sam 1 game into the season?  This after having him as the #4 QB in the AFC going into the season.

Got it.

Yep.  Because we had plenty of data on Darnold at that point.  

Meanwhile, you still haven't determined Darnold sucks after 32 starts.  There's no hope for you. 

[Losmeister]

Sam Apologists...     courts also oppose cherry picking

And the Campaign’s charges are selective. Though Pennsylvanians cast 2.6 million mail-in ballots, the Campaign challenges 1.5 million of them. It cherry-picks votes cast in “YYYYYY-heavy counties” but not “those in ZZZZZZZ-heavy counties.” Second Am. Compl. ¶ 8. Without compelling evidence of massive fraud, not even alleged here, we can hardly grant such lopsided relief.

[slimjasi]

7 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

So in a year with no preseason games, very little practice (due to Covid) and a brand new OL, you gave up on Sam 1 game into the season?  This after having him as the #4 QB in the AFC going into the season.

Got it.

Didn’t every other QB have no preseason games and very little practice due to COVID?

 

[Ex-Rex]

On 11/26/2020 at 1:32 AM, AFJF said:

Just knowing that he won't have enough time to unlearn what Gase taught him so no way to properly evaluate him as he heads toward having a huge price tag.  I think he'll be like Tannehill.  Escape Gase and become a better player. 

I wish the kid well.  He deserved better than what the Jets gave him.

I agree. He has regressed badly this season and a shoulder injury is NEVER good for a QB. I think for me the NE 'ghost' game showed that he is a tick slow in recognition. I don't know if Gase actually did or did not take away his ability to audible but I know that too many plays are left on the field and his accuracy has diminished.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Didn’t every other QB have no preseason games and very little practice due to COVID?

Yep.  And several of those were playing with new coaches/systems.

[Dcat]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  And several of those were playing with new coaches/systems.

TBH, Darnold would have been better if he had a new coaching regime this year too. 

[slimjasi]

7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  And several of those were playing with new coaches/systems.

Right. Before the season, everyone was saying how Sam should be much better in year 2 of Gase. 
 

Apparently, we have to wait until Sam is surrounded by the same WRs, starting OL, and coaching staff for consecutive seasons before we can expect him to even be average. 
 

Seems like low expectations for the #3 overall pick to me 

[Jetsfan4life90]

7 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Allen had more yards per game, more TDs and less turnovers per game in their rookie years.

He did this with the worst supporting cast in the league by far. His top WRs were Zay Jones and Robert Foster. Zay Jones is the 5th WR on the Raiders and Foster is on a practice squad. He had a bottom two O-line and the worst supporting running game in the league.

Allen in 2018 (12 games): 12 passing touchdowns, 57.7 pass percentage, 2,074 passing yards, 172.8 passing yards per game

Darnold in 2018 (13 games): 17 passing touchdowns, 52.8 pass percentage, 2,865 passing yards, 220.4 passing yards per game

Allen threw for 3 less interceptions, but also had 2 more fumbles than Darnold.

And neither team had a good supporting cast that year.

I'm not including rushing yards in this. Allen's always been known as a running QB, unlike Darnold. 

Fact is, Darnold had a better rookie season. The difference is the Bills have done a much better job of supporting Allen than the Jets did with Darnold the past 3 seasons. Switch QB's, and Allen would be looking like a bust here too, same as Darnold. 

 

[addage]

3 hours ago, slimjasi said:

Right. Before the season, everyone was saying how Sam should be much better in year 2 of Gase. 
 

Apparently, we have to wait until Sam is surrounded by the same WRs, starting OL, and coaching staff for consecutive seasons before we can expect him to even be average. 
 

Seems like low expectations for the #3 overall pick to me 

If you are saying Sam has shown he is not a "generational qb" ala Peyton Manning, then you are right.  He's not.

If you freeze the Jets roster and add any qb out there, do you think we win the division?  Are you nuts?

 

[hamat711]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Allen in 2018 (12 games): 12 passing touchdowns, 57.7 pass percentage, 2,074 passing yards, 172.8 passing yards per game

Darnold in 2018 (13 games): 17 passing touchdowns, 52.8 pass percentage, 2,865 passing yards, 220.4 passing yards per game

Allen threw for 3 less interceptions, but also had 2 more fumbles than Darnold.

And neither team had a good supporting cast that year.

I'm not including rushing yards in this. Allen's always been known as a running QB, unlike Darnold. 

Fact is, Darnold had a better rookie season. The difference is the Bills have done a much better job of supporting Allen than the Jets did with Darnold the past 3 seasons. Switch QB's, and Allen would be looking like a bust here too, same as Darnold. 

 

So ignore the stats that make Allen better? Fact is, Josh Allen had a better rookie season on a worse offense. Josh was unconventional, but was still slightly better than Darnold as a rookie.

Allen showed that he had a skillset that can be productive even when things aren't perfect.

Darnold showed that he could only perform when everything went right.

[slimjasi]

3 hours ago, addage said:

If you are saying Sam has shown he is not a "generational qb" ala Peyton Manning, then you are right.  He's not.

If you freeze the Jets roster and add any qb out there, do you think we win the division?  Are you nuts?

 

When did I even imply that I thought the Jets would win the division with another QB? 

Are YOU nuts? 

[Defense Wins Championships]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Allen in 2018 (12 games): 12 passing touchdowns, 57.7 pass percentage, 2,074 passing yards, 172.8 passing yards per game

Darnold in 2018 (13 games): 17 passing touchdowns, 52.8 pass percentage, 2,865 passing yards, 220.4 passing yards per game

Allen threw for 3 less interceptions, but also had 2 more fumbles than Darnold.

And neither team had a good supporting cast that year.

I'm not including rushing yards in this. Allen's always been known as a running QB, unlike Darnold. 

Fact is, Darnold had a better rookie season. The difference is the Bills have done a much better job of supporting Allen than the Jets did with Darnold the past 3 seasons. Switch QB's, and Allen would be looking like a bust here too, same as Darnold. 

 

So you're just going to erase Josh Allen's X-Factor of being a dual threat talent and attempt to erase his 631 rushing yards and 8 rushing TDs as a rookie with a SICK average of 7.1 yards per carry; in order to act and pretend as if Sam had a better rookie season?

Nah man. Football and evaluating QBs doesn't quite work, like that. 

And my biggest criticism of Josh Allen coming out of college @ a small school and an awful NCAA completion percentage was his lack of "accuracy" and after having a career completion percentage of 60.2% 3 years later and a current 68.4% here in 2020 I can say that he's proven me WRONG.

Unlike Sam he also has an absolutely beautiful deep ball with an A++ rocket arm and just as dangerous as Lamar Jackson as a runner; because you never know when he's going to take off and run (he's not predictable as a runner) and overall he's got heart and shows FIRE on the Football field omg he's just so much more talented than Sam. 

[Jetsfan4life90]

35 minutes ago, hamat711 said:

So ignore the stats that make Allen better? Fact is, Josh Allen had a better rookie season on a worse offense. Josh was unconventional, but was still slightly better than Darnold as a rookie.

Allen showed that he had a skillset that can be productive even when things aren't perfect.

Darnold showed that he could only perform when everything went right.

Allen was a better rushing QB his rookie season, Darnold had a better rookie season overall. That's simply a fact.

Put Darnold on the Bills, and he's looking like a top 10-15 QB right now. And Allen would be talked about as another Jets bust. 

[Jetsfan4life90]

3 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

So you're just going to erase Josh Allen's X-Factor of being a dual threat talent and attempt to erase his 631 rushing yards and 8 rushing TDs as a rookie with a SICK average of 7.1 yards per carry; in order to act and pretend as if Sam had a better rookie season?

Nah man. Football and evaluating QBs doesn't quite work, like that. 

And my biggest criticism of Josh Allen coming out of college @ a small school and an awful NCAA completion percentage was his lack of "accuracy" and after having a career completion percentage of 60.2% 3 years later and a current 68.4% here in 2020 I can say that he's proven me WRONG.

Unlike Sam he also has an absolutely beautiful deep ball with an A++ rocket arm and just as dangerous as Lamar Jackson as a runner; because you never know when he's going to take off and run (he's not predictable as a runner) and overall he's got heart and shows FIRE on the Football field omg he's just so much more talented than Sam. 

As my last post, if you want to say Allen was a better rushing QB than Darnold did his rookie season, I obviously won't argue with that. 

Darnold is talented also. The difference is, the Bills were able to develop and give Allen talent to work with. The Jets did the opposite in pretty much every measure with Darnold. 

Let's hope they do better with Lawrence or Fields. Otherwise, the story is more likely to end along the same lines as with Darnold. 

[hamat711]

3 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Allen was a better rushing QB his rookie season, Darnold had a better rookie season overall. That's simply a fact.

Put Darnold on the Bills, and he's looking like a top 10-15 QB right now. And Allen would be talked about as another Jets bust. 

WTF is a rushing QB? Last time I checked, they play the same position and rushing yards count the same as passing yards. Also I highly doubt Darnold would do anything close to what Allen is doing if he were on the Bills.......

Darnold keeps on making the same mistakes. He is a turnover machine. He keeps throwing off his backfoot even when there is no pressure. He has accuracy issues which stem from poor footwork. He routinely bails from a clean pocket. This makes his O-line look worse. Shell and Beachum are doing just fine on other teams, so all signs point to Sam being the problem. Just look at his draft profile. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/sam-darnold/32194441-5246-6141-9e5c-6e7d32a03e33 Many of his strengths have diminished and none of his weaknesses have been addressed.

What Elite trait does Darnold have? His ability to improvise was his biggest strength, but that is greatly off-set by is tendency to turn it over. Despite it being his best trait, he still isn't even a top 10 improviser in the league.

 

I think Darnold can be successful, but he has been the worst starting QB over the last 3 years.

Mitch Trubisky in his first 26 games produced 6085 yards, 36 TDs and 25 Turnovers and completed 63% of his passes

Sam Darnold in his first 26 games produced 6089 yards, 39 TDs and 33 Turnvoers and completed 59% of his passes

[ScarletKnight89]

He needed to take that big step forward this year and he never did. I guess the tipping point for me was the game in Indy. 

I'll still always hope for him to turn it around and prove me wrong though.