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Would you be against trading away 2021's Jamal pick from Seattle and both of our 2021 3rd round picks in return for Kyle Pitts?


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On 1/17/2021 at 3:17 PM, predator_05 said:

Watched a lot more of this guy's highlights. I'm sold. 

He can be freakishly good, like Jimmy Graham or Calvin Johnson in their prime. Uncover-able. Can't think of a better weapon for a young QB in this year's draft. 

He’s going to be lethal in the red zone 

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6 hours ago, chirorob said:

I would not trade up for him, the team has too many needs.

I would be on board with trading back to 7 or 8 and taking him.

Exactly my thoughts. Trade back to 8 and get this and next yrs first and this and next yrs second rd picks.  Take Pitts at 8    Najee Harris at 23

WR with our second rd pick and the best guard with the second rd pick we get for moving back.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I was looking more into Pitts and with @football guy continuing to say he's a high possibility if the Jets trade down, eh, not sure I can get behind taking him with that first pick. 

I have no doubt he'll be a big time playmaker and guess depends a bit on how we attack free agency but isn't it kind of a luxury pick to be taking Darren Waller 2.0 ahead of all other things?

 

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43 minutes ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I was looking more into Pitts and with @football guy continuing to say he's a high possibility if the Jets trade down, eh, not sure I can get behind taking him with that first pick. 

I have no doubt he'll be a big time playmaker and guess depends a bit on how we attack free agency but isn't it kind of a luxury pick to be taking Darren Waller 2.0 ahead of all other things?

 

I think the Shanahan offense traditionally peppers one dude with targets, usually more of an X receiver - but obviously in SF it was Kittle until he got hurt. Then it was Aiyuk after.

I don’t think Pitts is a luxury pick if you’re building the offense around him.

I’m skeptical they’re going to try to find that guy in the draft - but maybe they will if they’re punting 2021 and trying to build something longer term.

Also think Kittle works because he can block which is important for the offense. Pitts isn’t quite there yet. I feel like a Tommy Tremble in the third round works.

Smith I think is the closest guy in the draft to being that dude early despite his lean build being a legitimate question. Chase is quite good too. Terrace Marshall is the best bet outside that early group in my opinion, Rondale Moore is my favorite period, and Dyami Brown is criminally underrated at this stage but I’m not certain how well he fits.

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6 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I was looking more into Pitts and with @football guy continuing to say he's a high possibility if the Jets trade down, eh, not sure I can get behind taking him with that first pick. 

I have no doubt he'll be a big time playmaker and guess depends a bit on how we attack free agency but isn't it kind of a luxury pick to be taking Darren Waller 2.0 ahead of all other things?

I think the Jets need as many elite players they can get their hands on. 

Personally I love the prospect, but I agree that it may be a bit of a luxury. You can find guys elsewhere who will cost less. Besides, I really want to see what the Jets have in Herndon. I know what it looks like when a player has a fluky season and gets overhyped (see Perriman). Herndon displayed legit top-8 potential during his rookie year. I have no idea what’s happened since 

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17 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I was looking more into Pitts and with @football guy continuing to say he's a high possibility if the Jets trade down, eh, not sure I can get behind taking him with that first pick. 

I have no doubt he'll be a big time playmaker and guess depends a bit on how we attack free agency but isn't it kind of a luxury pick to be taking Darren Waller 2.0 ahead of all other things?

 

 We have nothing at TE

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I like the player.  But I can't help thinking about a comment someone made last week that the set of TEs who are the best in the league has almost no overlap with the set of TEs drafted in the 1st round.  When you look at it that way, it's hard to argue with.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/te

Here are the 1st rounders over the past decade.  Hockenson and Fant show potential (go @HawkeyeJet!) but they're not the top guys.

Year Round Pick Player Name Team College
2019 1 8 8 T.J. Hockenson Lions Iowa
2019 1 20 20 Noah Fant Broncos Iowa
2018 1 25 25 Hayden Hurst Ravens South Carolina
2017 1 19 19 O.J. Howard Buccaneers Alabama
2017 1 23 23 Evan Engram Giants Mississippi
2017 1 29 29 David Njoku Browns Miami (FL)
2014 1 10 10 Eric Ebron Lions North Carolina
2013 1 21 21 Tyler Eifert Bengals Notre Dame

Instead you have Kittle, Kelce, Waller and Andrews taken in rounds 5, 3, 6 and 3.  Even guys like Gronk weren't the first TE taken in their draft, and Antonio Gates wasn't even drafted.  I'm not sure if it's the system they go into, or something else, but it seems to be very hard to project TE greatness when they first come into the draft process.

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11 hours ago, nycdan said:

I like the player.  But I can't help thinking about a comment someone made last week that the set of TEs who are the best in the league has almost no overlap with the set of TEs drafted in the 1st round.  When you look at it that way, it's hard to argue with.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/te

Here are the 1st rounders over the past decade.  Hockenson and Fant show potential (go @HawkeyeJet!) but they're not the top guys.

Year Round Pick Player Name Team College
2019 1 8 8 T.J. Hockenson Lions Iowa
2019 1 20 20 Noah Fant Broncos Iowa
2018 1 25 25 Hayden Hurst Ravens South Carolina
2017 1 19 19 O.J. Howard Buccaneers Alabama
2017 1 23 23 Evan Engram Giants Mississippi
2017 1 29 29 David Njoku Browns Miami (FL)
2014 1 10 10 Eric Ebron Lions North Carolina
2013 1 21 21 Tyler Eifert Bengals Notre Dame

Instead you have Kittle, Kelce, Waller and Andrews taken in rounds 5, 3, 6 and 3.  Even guys like Gronk weren't the first TE taken in their draft, and Antonio Gates wasn't even drafted.  I'm not sure if it's the system they go into, or something else, but it seems to be very hard to project TE greatness when they first come into the draft process.

Seems like an astute comment that was made by an outstanding poster.

Good breakdown!

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On 2/9/2021 at 9:07 AM, derp said:

I think the Shanahan offense traditionally peppers one dude with targets, usually more of an X receiver - but obviously in SF it was Kittle until he got hurt. Then it was Aiyuk after.

I don’t think Pitts is a luxury pick if you’re building the offense around him.

I’m skeptical they’re going to try to find that guy in the draft - but maybe they will if they’re punting 2021 and trying to build something longer term.

Also think Kittle works because he can block which is important for the offense. Pitts isn’t quite there yet. I feel like a Tommy Tremble in the third round works.

Smith I think is the closest guy in the draft to being that dude early despite his lean build being a legitimate question. Chase is quite good too. Terrace Marshall is the best bet outside that early group in my opinion, Rondale Moore is my favorite period, and Dyami Brown is criminally underrated at this stage but I’m not certain how well he fits.

Terrace Marshall is criminally underrated - if you’re using popularity as a measure. I’m sure real front office and their draft scouting teams have him with closer to a first rnd grade. He profiles physically/talent wise as one of the most complete WRs in draft. Top 5 for sure. 

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12 hours ago, nycdan said:

I like the player.  But I can't help thinking about a comment someone made last week that the set of TEs who are the best in the league has almost no overlap with the set of TEs drafted in the 1st round.  When you look at it that way, it's hard to argue with.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/te

Here are the 1st rounders over the past decade.  Hockenson and Fant show potential (go @HawkeyeJet!) but they're not the top guys.

Year Round Pick Player Name Team College
2019 1 8 8 T.J. Hockenson Lions Iowa
2019 1 20 20 Noah Fant Broncos Iowa
2018 1 25 25 Hayden Hurst Ravens South Carolina
2017 1 19 19 O.J. Howard Buccaneers Alabama
2017 1 23 23 Evan Engram Giants Mississippi
2017 1 29 29 David Njoku Browns Miami (FL)
2014 1 10 10 Eric Ebron Lions North Carolina
2013 1 21 21 Tyler Eifert Bengals Notre Dame

Instead you have Kittle, Kelce, Waller and Andrews taken in rounds 5, 3, 6 and 3.  Even guys like Gronk weren't the first TE taken in their draft, and Antonio Gates wasn't even drafted.  I'm not sure if it's the system they go into, or something else, but it seems to be very hard to project TE greatness when they first come into the draft process.

Lot of dumb GMs is what I see. Who drafts a 27 year Hurst in the 1st? Ebron was fools gold. Howard even more so. When Eifert didn’t have a broken back he was as advertised. Gronk slipped cause he missed the whole year with a back injury. Lots of reasons. Lots of bad GM’ing. 

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28 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Terrace Marshall is criminally underrated - if you’re using popularity as a measure. I’m sure real front office and their draft scouting teams have him with closer to a first rnd grade. He profiles physically/talent wise as one of the most complete WRs in draft. Top 5 for sure. 

I really hope there’s not much information out there this year and there are a ton of surprise picks.

Early mocks and rankings are trash because everyone who does it in a way you can read it is an amateur relative to the guys making decisions.

Stuff starts to leak out around the combine, and someone like Marshall starts to “rise” not because he had a good workout but because there are a bunch of people in Indy and they talk. 

I genuinely think the combine “risers” are a whole lot of BS. Those are the dudes teams saw were athletic on film and internet guys didn’t identify it. Maybe a couple dudes who it turns out weren’t sneaky fast on film, they’re just fast. And rankings guys try to front run that stuff anyway, it’s why guys like Oweh and Paye are “ranked” where they are right now because people know they’re likely to test well.

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35 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Lot of dumb GMs is what I see. Who drafts a 27 year Hurst in the 1st? Ebron was fools gold. Howard even more so. When Eifert didn’t have a broken back he was as advertised. Gronk slipped cause he missed the whole year with a back injury. Lots of reasons. Lots of bad GM’ing. 

I think there are two sides to the coin though. Why did the elite guys ALL slide through the cracks? What are teams looking for that’s wrong?

My $.02 but I think in a copycat league it’s really hard to copycat at a position where you’re largely playing with one guy on the field. Teams looking for the next Kittle are going to find a worse version and miss on a different guy with a unique skill set.

I also think measurables are overrated at TE. A lot of other positions those elite measurables really back up production and put guys over the top and get them drafted in the first. If you’ve got truly elite measurables at TE size you’re going to lean out and be Calvin Johnson or Chase Claypool at 230-240. Bigger guys with less wiggle need a different skill set, they’re not just heavy poor man’s wide receivers.

And because of the reliance those bigger guys have on making tight window catches, there’s a lot of reliance on the QB to make throws the TE can catch. Lots of college TE’s play with quarterbacks who are going to severely hamper their production. 

Definitely think those guys have had their flaws though I liked Hockenson a lot. But I do think it’s hard to identify the good ones. Maybe Pitts is just no duh elite tight end but he’d be the first in...quite some time. I can’t remember one.

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19 hours ago, nycdan said:

I like the player.  But I can't help thinking about a comment someone made last week that the set of TEs who are the best in the league has almost no overlap with the set of TEs drafted in the 1st round.  When you look at it that way, it's hard to argue with.

http://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/te

Here are the 1st rounders over the past decade.  Hockenson and Fant show potential (go @HawkeyeJet!) but they're not the top guys.

Year Round Pick Player Name Team College
2019 1 8 8 T.J. Hockenson Lions Iowa
2019 1 20 20 Noah Fant Broncos Iowa
2018 1 25 25 Hayden Hurst Ravens South Carolina
2017 1 19 19 O.J. Howard Buccaneers Alabama
2017 1 23 23 Evan Engram Giants Mississippi
2017 1 29 29 David Njoku Browns Miami (FL)
2014 1 10 10 Eric Ebron Lions North Carolina
2013 1 21 21 Tyler Eifert Bengals Notre Dame

Instead you have Kittle, Kelce, Waller and Andrews taken in rounds 5, 3, 6 and 3.  Even guys like Gronk weren't the first TE taken in their draft, and Antonio Gates wasn't even drafted.  I'm not sure if it's the system they go into, or something else, but it seems to be very hard to project TE greatness when they first come into the draft process.

Tony Gonzalez was a first round pick

 

Not sure why Andrews fell in the draft he was an obvious stud at Oklahoma 

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4 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Tony Gonzalez was a first round pick

 

Not sure why Andrews fell in the draft he was an obvious stud at Oklahoma 

Yes, Gonzalez was...in 1997.  24 years ago.  It's been a pretty random throw of the dice since then.  Heck, Jimmy Graham was a 3rd rounder in 2010 and he and Gronk were probably two of the best TEs in the league for a half-dozen years until Kelce ascended.  All I'm supporting here is that as good as TE prospects look before the draft, the numbers seem to indicate that it's far more of a crapshoot than some other positions.

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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

Yes, Gonzalez was...in 1997.  24 years ago.  It's been a pretty random throw of the dice since then.  Heck, Jimmy Graham was a 3rd rounder in 2010 and he and Gronk were probably two of the best TEs in the league for a half-dozen years until Kelce ascended.  All I'm supporting here is that as good as TE prospects look before the draft, the numbers seem to indicate that it's far more of a crapshoot than some other positions.

Antonio Gates was undrafted, but back then teams weren't looking for these crazy athletic tight ends like Gates.

If the Jets trade down, I am all for taking Pitts at 7, 8.  Add another WR in free agency, add a center in FA, move McGovern to guard, draft a tackle with the Seattle first, and that really improves the entire offense.  

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On 2/9/2021 at 11:18 AM, Samtorobby47 said:

I was looking more into Pitts and with @football guy continuing to say he's a high possibility if the Jets trade down, eh, not sure I can get behind taking him with that first pick. 

I have no doubt he'll be a big time playmaker and guess depends a bit on how we attack free agency but isn't it kind of a luxury pick to be taking Darren Waller 2.0 ahead of all other things?

 

Wha?  Darren Waller over the last 2 season has 197 receptions for 2400 yards and 12 TD's.   If that's what Kyle Pitts is going to be in the NFL, the Jets cant afford to pass on him.

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On 2/11/2021 at 5:55 PM, chirorob said:

Antonio Gates was undrafted, but back then teams weren't looking for these crazy athletic tight ends like Gates.

If the Jets trade down, I am all for taking Pitts at 7, 8.  Add another WR in free agency, add a center in FA, move McGovern to guard, draft a tackle with the Seattle first, and that really improves the entire offense.  

Gates was undrafted because he didn’t play football in college.  If he did he would have probably dominated

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On 2/11/2021 at 11:07 AM, JiF said:

Wha?  Darren Waller over the last 2 season has 197 receptions for 2400 yards and 12 TD's.   If that's what Kyle Pitts is going to be in the NFL, the Jets cant afford to pass on him.

Wow, I just looked up his numbers.   That is insane, making it even more so, he has 197 receptions on 262 throws at him, meaning QBs have a 75% completion rate throwing at him. 

One of the BEST things to get a young QB is a quality tight end.   Shorter, easier throws.

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3 hours ago, chirorob said:

Wow, I just looked up his numbers.   That is insane, making it even more so, he has 197 receptions on 262 throws at him, meaning QBs have a 75% completion rate throwing at him. 

One of the BEST things to get a young QB is a quality tight end.   Shorter, easier throws.

Waller is a stud.  Going to be the second TE drafted in fantasy drafts next year

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