Gase and Joe D

[kmnj]

why is everybody for giving joe d years for his rebuild and they keep saying you cant expect change in a year or two and it is a 6 year plan but people are not willing to give Gase the same luxury? I keep hearing how the plan was to tear it down and have a terrible roster this year-so how is Gase supposed to coach that washed roster?

Lets be clear I hate Gase. I stated when hired he was terrible. I stated after every game he is terrible but it is ironic that folks are preaching patience with Joe D and see how he is doing a "good job" taking a team from a 6-7 win type team to a zero win team. If this was a planned tank(I dont think it was) why is Gase the fall guy ?

I think Gase is worse than Kotite but if I was him I would be saying hey Joe D you are here because of me-you gave me a terrible roster this year. Why I am being held accountable during this "planned 6 year rebuild and Joe you keep saying how great I am doing..

 

 

[kmnj]

p.s that was me being devil's advocate....

Gase needs to be rushed out(I agree)

but Joe D needs years for his 6 year plan to take place...

[bla bla bla]

Gase has a large sample size dating back to his time in Miami. Joe Douglas has had a year and a half.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, bla bla bla said:

Gase has a large sample size dating back to his time in Miami. Joe Douglas has had a year and a half.

Yup. Apples and oranges.  When was there a law passed that requires these two be given the same exact leash?  It would be illogical.  Each must be evaluated based on their track record, and gase has a much longer history of being terrible.

[Irish Jet]

Douglas will be under pressure if there's another 2-3 win type season next year. You just can't put such a historically poor product on the field and get away with it.

He's living off of his draft class for now, which has been his best asset. Given what we put up with under Idzik and Mac it's not hard to be a major upgrade in that area. But this offseason is huge for him. We have the draft capital and cap space to put a competitive roster out there next year. No one's expecting playoffs but a top 3 draft pick would be absolutely unacceptable. 

[choon328]

2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

why is everybody for giving joe d years for his rebuild and they keep saying you cant expect change in a year or two and it is a 6 year plan but people are not willing to give Gase the same luxury? I keep hearing how the plan was to tear it down and have a terrible roster this year-so how is Gase supposed to coach that washed roster?

Lets be clear I hate Gase. I stated when hired he was terrible. I stated after every game he is terrible but it is ironic that folks are preaching patience with Joe D and see how he is doing a "good job" taking a team from a 6-7 win type team to a zero win team. If this was a planned tank(I dont think it was) why is Gase the fall guy ?

I think Gase is worse than Kotite but if I was him I would be saying hey Joe D you are here because of me-you gave me a terrible roster this year. Why I am being held accountable during this "planned 6 year rebuild and Joe you keep saying how great I am doing..

 

 

JD was always a highly sought after GM candidate.  Def somebody who should have been on the top of the Jets radar with or without Gase being the HC. The idea that he's only here bc of Gase is ridiculous. 

But to answer your question of why Gase isn't being afforded the same time as JD that's pretty simple. Gase was brought here to develop Darnold and he hasn't. His offense may go down as the worst in Nfl history this year.  You can not let him near another young QB after the lack of progression Darnold has shown. 

JD has had 1 offseason and 1 draft.  He hit on his top 2 draft picks.  Thats not an easy feat and not something a GM has done here in quite a while. He moved Adams for a steal and set up the Jets with a bounty of draft picks that can reshape the team for years to come. Has he always made the right decisions? No,  but you can't expect anybody to do that. 

[Scott Dierking]

I am actually seeing "pieces". The draft class looks better every game.  You can see progress. Obviously, much work to be done.

During the Kotite debacle, I could see young pieces emerge every week that gave hope for the future because they were building blocks. I can see some of those same things now. 

[shuler82]

Because JD’s plan all along was to use 2020 as a tear down and reload in 2021. That’s not to say he didn’t address needs at all- the OL he rebuilt is respectable. (Albeit a work in progress) He also took fliers on a bunch of one year prove it deals.  He traded away a SS for two first round draft picks and horded 2021 assets.

So why isn’t Gase safe? He was brought in to develop Darnold. He’s failed. The team hasn’t been competitive all season and look unprepared. His offense has been the worst in football - not just this year and last, but going back to Miami, Chicago and any time he didn’t have Manning under center. 
 

sure- Gase was not set up to win in 2020 but he also wasn’t set up to go winless and have one of the least productive offenses in NFL history...manned by a young QB he failed to develop.

[56mehl56]

3 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

Because JD’s plan all along was to use 2020 as a tear down and reload in 2021. That’s not to say he didn’t address needs at all- the OL he rebuilt is respectable. (Albeit a work in progress) He also took fliers on a bunch of one year prove it deals.  He traded away a SS for two first round draft picks and horded 2021 assets.

So why isn’t Gase safe? He was brought in to develop Darnold. He’s failed. The team hasn’t been competitive all season and look unprepared. His offense has been the worst in football - not just this year and last, but going back to Miami, Chicago and any time he didn’t have Manning under center. 
 

sure- Gase was not set up to win in 2020 but he also wasn’t set up to go winless and have one of the least productive offenses in NFL history...manned by a young QB he failed to develop.

I agree Gase should be fired , but what if Darnold isn't correctable . The mental mistakes he is making , plus his lack of fire makes me wonder if Gase is the fall guy in this whole plan . 

[DepressedJetsFan23]

I do not believe Joe Douglas had any intent to win this year. He traded the best player on the team and surrounded a third year starting QB with nothing. If the bengals were to do this, what would we think?

[rangerous]

56 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

I agree Gase should be fired , but what if Darnold isn't correctable . The mental mistakes he is making , plus his lack of fire makes me wonder if Gase is the fall guy in this whole plan . 

so what if gase is the fall guy?  if the personnel is solid it's not that difficult to bring in a good coach.  heck they could go for a retread like jack del rio or rex and they'd bring an 8-8 team.  the thing about gase revolves around darnold and the defense.  i'm not sure what the real issues are.  gase's offense gets the receivers open and he does have the excuse of a bad oline but darnold still throws into double coverage or doesn't avoid the rush or doesn't throw the ball away.

[UnknownJetFan]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

JD was always a highly sought after GM candidate.  Def somebody who should have been on the top of the Jets radar with or without Gase being the HC. The idea that he's only here bc of Gase is ridiculous. 

But to answer your question of why Gase isn't being afforded the same time as JD that's pretty simple. Gase was brought here to develop Darnold and he hasn't. His offense may go down as the worst in Nfl history this year.  You can not let him near another young QB after the lack of progression Darnold has shown. 

JD has had 1 offseason and 1 draft.  He hit on his top 2 draft picks.  Thats not an easy feat and not something a GM has done here in quite a while. He moved Adams for a steal and set up the Jets with a bounty of draft picks that can reshape the team for years to come. Has he always made the right decisions? No,  but you can't expect anybody to do that. 

Hey he even drafted a Punter that may make the pro bowl, though we likely are going to where his leg out with our record breaking amount of punts this year. But, jokes aside, even that CB Hall pick may wind up a long term starter as he has looked good as well. Also, I liked Perine's game at RB till he got hurt. S Davis is getting better as well. JD has not done bad overall and likely can be graded around a B at his job in one offseason and 1 draft. Gase I would have given like a C last year for having the team finish 6-2, but after this season with regressing Darnold, as well as the worst play calling ever(After 2 D turnovers in the opposing teams end you call a run up the middle, what about a toss to the EZ when the other team is discombobulated from the TO).  With that his grade is such a deep F this year it brings his overall grade for both seasons to an F and that can be the first letter for Fire. He would have been fired a month or longer ago, but the team knows they need another QB now thanks to Gase and if they keep Gase to the end of the season we will have a shot at LT or Fields since even 2 wins would get us Fields if Jets want him.  

[viffer]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

But to answer your question of why Gase isn't being afforded the same time as JD that's pretty simple. Gase was brought here to develop Darnold and he hasn't. His offense may go down as the worst in Nfl history this year.  You can not let him near another young QB after the lack of progression Darnold has shown.

And let's not forget Tannehill. Lousy under Gase; now an MVP candidate since he is under a real coach. Could happen with Darnold once he's traded and gets to play under a good HC.

Gase has proven over and over again that he sucks. JD has a good pedigree and his first draft was, at a minimum, a major improvement over his predecessor.

[slimjasi]

1) This is Adam's 5th year as an NFL head coach. We have seen enough of him to safely say he's not a good head coach. His teams have several bad habits - annual rashes of nagging injuries, consistent blowout losses, and bottom of the league offenses (his bread and butter). Also, watching him every week, he seems to have a terrible feel for the game and is, at best, a mediocre play-caller. 

2) Douglas has had one draft here and it already looks like it could be our best draft in well over a decade. 

Bonus: If Trevor Lawrence has any sincere reservations about coming here, Adam Gase is not the coach to sell him on it. 

[addage]

JDs FA choices this year we’re poor. His draft class is above average but it is early to give a real grade. His trades have been superior. 
We have reason for optimism but won’t get a good read until after next season. 
How he and the Jets manage firing Gase and naming a replacement will go a long way in determining his/our success.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

Yup. Apples and oranges.  When was there a law passed that requires these two be given the same exact leash?  It would be illogical.  Each must be evaluated based on their track record, and gase has a much longer history of being terrible.

....and that's what leads to the very dysfunction we're trying to get away from.

"Let's keep Rex Ryan and get rid of Mike Tannenbaum and Brian Schottenheimer!"  That's what started this most recent mess.  If we want to do it the "right way", do it like the Ravens and Steelers and other smart franchises, we have to bite the bullet now, and give Gase and Douglas a few more years to rebuild this thing.

We aren't rebuilding-on-the-fly.  This is a tear-down.  The entire house is coming down, every beam and nail, we're at the concrete foundation and that's it.  This isn't the time to make a regime change, or force a HC on an existing GM.  We committed to these two, they've had only 1 draft and 1 free agent period together.  This isn't the time to rip it apart.  That would be something the dysfunctional Jets would do.

SAR I

[Dcat]

59 minutes ago, SAR I said:

....and that's what leads to the very dysfunction we're trying to get away from.

"Let's keep Rex Ryan and get rid of Mike Tannenbaum and Brian Schottenheimer!"  That's what started this most recent mess.  If we want to do it the "right way", do it like the Ravens and Steelers and other smart franchises, we have to bite the bullet now, and give Gase and Douglas a few more years to rebuild this thing.

We aren't rebuilding-on-the-fly.  This is a tear-down.  The entire house is coming down, every beam and nail, we're at the concrete foundation and that's it.  This isn't the time to make a regime change, or force a HC on an existing GM.  We committed to these two, they've had only 1 draft and 1 free agent period together.  This isn't the time to rip it apart.  That would be something the dysfunctional Jets would do.

SAR I

LOL.  Nice try but not quite.  Let the GM hire his HC and let the HC report to him. Period.  Tired of the Jets convoluted structure, which could only work if you have an ownership that is football smart.  Ours is not.

[southtown24th]

Pals

Attached at the hip

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, kmnj said:

why is everybody for giving joe d years for his rebuild and they keep saying you cant expect change in a year or two and it is a 6 year plan but people are not willing to give Gase the same luxury? I keep hearing how the plan was to tear it down and have a terrible roster this year-so how is Gase supposed to coach that washed roster?

Lets be clear I hate Gase. I stated when hired he was terrible. I stated after every game he is terrible but it is ironic that folks are preaching patience with Joe D and see how he is doing a "good job" taking a team from a 6-7 win type team to a zero win team. If this was a planned tank(I dont think it was) why is Gase the fall guy ?

I think Gase is worse than Kotite but if I was him I would be saying hey Joe D you are here because of me-you gave me a terrible roster this year. Why I am being held accountable during this "planned 6 year rebuild and Joe you keep saying how great I am doing..

 

 

Because Douglas did built most of this team?  Because hes gotten on draft and it was a good draft from early returns?  Because part of the suck was removing the shlt Macc left him?   Because Douglas doesnt have 5 consecutive bad years on his 5 year resume?

Because constant turnover of a FO is a recipe for long term losing?

Because I can point to Douglas's 1 draft and believe he may actually know what hes doing and did it well.  Because I look at the job Gase has done developing Sam and hes gone backwards.  

Because with two teams Gase has coached here and the three in Miami I cant come up with a single thing his teams have done on offense that they did well.

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

JD has made several mistakes and should be called out on them but most of the sad state of this franchise is from the horrible drafting from Mac. We’re just seeing the fruits of it now. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Douglas will be under pressure if there's another 2-3 win type season next year. You just can't put such a historically poor product on the field and get away with it.

He's living off of his draft class for now, which has been his best asset. Given what we put up with under Idzik and Mac it's not hard to be a major upgrade in that area. But this offseason is huge for him. We have the draft capital and cap space to put a competitive roster out there next year. No one's expecting playoffs but a top 3 draft pick would be absolutely unacceptable. 

On this we actually agree.  An enormous step forward needs to happen in 2021.  I think it will.  We'll be amazed how much better everything will be with a new QB and HC here.  

[Jetster]

4 hours ago, kmnj said:

why is everybody for giving joe d years for his rebuild and they keep saying you cant expect change in a year or two and it is a 6 year plan but people are not willing to give Gase the same luxury? I keep hearing how the plan was to tear it down and have a terrible roster this year-so how is Gase supposed to coach that washed roster?

Lets be clear I hate Gase. I stated when hired he was terrible. I stated after every game he is terrible but it is ironic that folks are preaching patience with Joe D and see how he is doing a "good job" taking a team from a 6-7 win type team to a zero win team. If this was a planned tank(I dont think it was) why is Gase the fall guy ?

I think Gase is worse than Kotite but if I was him I would be saying hey Joe D you are here because of me-you gave me a terrible roster this year. Why I am being held accountable during this "planned 6 year rebuild and Joe you keep saying how great I am doing..

 

 

He could have won a few games this year if he coached better. He's a pussy who takes absolutely no chances! Joe D is the GM, Gase is on the sidelines, in two games Miami 44 Jets 3! 24 possessions for the genius Adam Gase offense, ZERO TDS! Do you know how hard that is to do? His offense is mindboggling bad!

[kmnj]

19 minutes ago, Jetster said:

He could have won a few games this year if he coached better. He's a pussy who takes absolutely no chances! Joe D is the GM, Gase is on the sidelines, in two games Miami 44 Jets 3! 24 possessions for the genius Adam Gase offense, ZERO TDS! Do you know how hard that is to do? His offense is mindboggling bad!

I said all along gase sucks something awful

just find it ironical gase picked joe joe says gase doing a good job

fans say you cant expect Joe to turn things over night and the roster is bad on purpose-then fans say Gase has had plenty of time to show what he can do-he is in his second year with a terrible roster-he won a bunch of games last year-the problem for him is his roster got much worse thanks to Joe D

Once again Gase is a clown who should go but JD is being held to a VERY different standard-his changes to the roster made us less competitive this year and why we cant sniff out a win

 

[kmnj]

Joe D has a six year plan

Gase was given two years-really one since Joe D pulled the rug from under his team.

It is like telling your one kid no ice cream for you for fighting with your brother then telling the other brother we are going for ice cream to celebrate you fighting with your brother

 

 

[kmnj]

both Joe D and Adam are in charge of the worst team in football

dont give Joe D a pass 

[Jetsfan4life90]

2 minutes ago, kmnj said:

both Joe D and Adam are in charge of the worst team in football

dont give Joe D a pass 

Joe D gets a pass and is being held to a different standard for multiple reasons, which have been stated. Reasons you clearly are ignoring to suit some agenda lol.

You want to assign a GM blame? Then blame the last two predecessors. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Joe D gets a pass and is being held to a different standard for multiple reasons, which have been stated. Reasons you clearly are ignoring to suit some agenda lol.

You want to assign a GM blame? Then blame the last two predecessors. 

It's a shame we can't fire Macc twice.

[Matt39]

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  Nice try but not quite.  Let the GM hire his HC and let the HC report to him. Period.  Tired of the Jets convoluted structure, which could only work if you have an ownership that is football smart.  Ours is not.

The Jets under the Johnson’s have never allowed the GM to hire the coach. 

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan4life90 said:

Joe D gets a pass and is being held to a different standard for multiple reasons, which have been stated. Reasons you clearly are ignoring to suit some agenda lol.

You want to assign a GM blame? Then blame the last two predecessors. 

In the context of just picking the players, yeah JD hasn’t been here long enough. But the big changes I expected to see (or wanted the Johnsons to allow) JD either hasn’t executed on or doesn’t have the power to do so(probably the latter). It’s still a bare bones scouting dept with former Jets castoffs at the top in Rex Hogan. The structure is still identical to the previous ones which were failures. Just picking better players isn’t going to change the real problems in the organization. 

[Larz]

It would be the power move of all power moves if gase gets rid of maccagnan, JD comes in, gets his 6 year deal, bigger budget for scouting and his hand picked front office, guts the roster, trades players for future picks, then gase gets fired 

I understand it’s not technically JDs call, but that would be pretty savage 

I think it’s much more likely that the johnsons spin this as gase needs to be evaluated with a competent roster and he gets to stay next year 

[chirorob]

7 hours ago, kmnj said:

p.s that was me being devil's advocate....

Gase needs to be rushed out(I agree)

but Joe D needs years for his 6 year plan to take place...

Well, for a GM, he has had 1 draft.   It looks like at the least he nailed the 1st pick, very possibly the 2nd pick, and some other draft picks have played well.

He lost Robby, but I think that was going to happen due to Robby wanting to play for his former coach.   Otherwise, he has shed a huge amount of salary and has added some future draft picks, so I think so far he has done pretty well.

Gase, you watch him coach it is obvious he doesn't have it.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

It would be the power move of all power moves if gase gets rid of maccagnan, JD comes in, gets his 6 year deal, bigger budget for scouting and his hand picked front office, guts the roster, trades players for future picks, then gase gets fired 

I understand it’s not technically JDs call, but that would be pretty savage 

I think it’s much more likely that the johnsons spin this as gase needs to be evaluated with a competent roster and he gets to stay next year 

I’m sorry what? You think Gase is staying?

[NYJ1]

4 hours ago, Dcat said:

LOL.  Nice try but not quite.  Let the GM hire his HC and let the HC report to him. Period.  Tired of the Jets convoluted structure, which could only work if you have an ownership that is football smart.  Ours is not.

Dumb. As if changing the reporting structure will instantly make things better. Either way the reporting structure is just fine.

[Larz]

2 hours ago, Samtorobby47 said:

I’m sorry what? You think Gase is staying?

Has he been fired? Has he complained about the roster? Are the Johnson’s idiots?

[Maxman]

10 hours ago, kmnj said:

why is everybody for giving joe d years for his rebuild and they keep saying you cant expect change in a year or two and it is a 6 year plan but people are not willing to give Gase the same luxury? I keep hearing how the plan was to tear it down and have a terrible roster this year-so how is Gase supposed to coach that washed roster?

Lets be clear I hate Gase. I stated when hired he was terrible. I stated after every game he is terrible but it is ironic that folks are preaching patience with Joe D and see how he is doing a "good job" taking a team from a 6-7 win type team to a zero win team. If this was a planned tank(I dont think it was) why is Gase the fall guy ?

I think Gase is worse than Kotite but if I was him I would be saying hey Joe D you are here because of me-you gave me a terrible roster this year. Why I am being held accountable during this "planned 6 year rebuild and Joe you keep saying how great I am doing..

 

 

Because:

• Losing every game in a season
• Not developing two QB prospects in the AFC East
• Having a boring playbook with no creativity
• Sucking before he got here with the Dolphins and getting worse

all that gives you no wiggle you. When that is your resume you aren't simply part of a larger problem.