Monday Night Football....

[playtowinthegame]

#FlyEagles

[Mogglez]

46 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Oh I am. But are you basing this on something you’ve heard or just speculation on the Douglas-Eagles connection?

Mostly speculation...but I’d expect Pederson to be verrrrrry high on the list if he gets the axe.  There are those that believe Doug is a very good coach who is being hampered by a very bad GM and, more importantly, a QB that has completely fallen on his face this year.  Doug and Howie have been fighting behind the scenes for two years now, as Howie has tried to meddle with Doug’s staff, which has been the main source of friction, the other being Howie’s draft choices.

Lastly, Douglas and Pederson have a very good relationship.

[Mogglez]

6 minutes ago, JTJet said:

One could argue they got worse..... when JD left ?

I wanted to say it LOL.  It’s looking more and more like JD was the most important person in that FO.  Howie’s personnel decisions have been BRUTAL since he left. 

[JTJet]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I wanted to say it LOL.  It’s looking more and more like JD was the most important person in that FO.  Howie’s personnel decisions have been BRUTAL since he left.

[kdels62]

5 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I wanted to say it LOL.  It’s looking more and more like JD was the most important person in that FO.  Howie’s personnel decisions have been BRUTAL since he left. 

Recheck those drafts when JD was there. It’s not pretty.

[jvill 51]

12 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Mostly speculation...but I’d expect Pederson to be verrrrrry high on the list if he gets the axe.  There are those that believe Doug is a very good coach who is being hampered by a very bad GM and, more importantly, a QB that has completely fallen on his face this year.  Doug and Howie have been fighting behind the scenes for two years now, as Howie has tried to meddle with Doug’s staff, which has been the main source of friction, the other being Howie’s draft choices.

I can get all that, but I’ve watched a bunch of Eagles games this year and every single time I’ve come away marveling at how awful Pederson’s decision making and play calling have been, even in the games they’ve won. The boneheaded decisions tonight are not an isolated thing. The Eagles have regressed every year without Frank Reich, and Pederson has to take at least some of the blame for Wentz’s fall.

It may not be an ideal situation for Pederson, but he’s been terrible at the things he can and does control.

[Mogglez]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Recheck those drafts when JD was there. It’s not pretty.

Howie had the final say on draft picks, but Douglas’s responsibility was more than the draft.  He was Howie’s right hand man for everything, including FA.

I’m not trying to prop JD up too much, but in his first draft he showed an emphasis on OL and found a WR more promising than any single WR Philly has drafted in almost a decade.  The emphasis on OL in Philly vanished when he left.  What’s more likely:  JD being overridden on a ton of important draft decisions (a lot of people in the Philly FO did NOT want guys like JJ Arcega-Whiteside, but Roseman was insistent on grabbing him) and Howie being responsible for all of those poor drafts, or JD being the problem in Philly during his tenure there??

[Mogglez]

16 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

I can get all that, but I’ve watched a bunch of Eagles games this year and every single time I’ve come away marveling at how awful Pederson’s decision making and play calling have been, even in the games they’ve won. The boneheaded decisions tonight are not an isolated thing. The Eagles have regressed every year without Frank Reich, and Pederson has to take at least some of the blame for Wentz’s fall.

It may not be an ideal situation for Pederson, but he’s been terrible at the things he can and does control.

I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but the dude is a Super Bowl winning Head Coach, and he did it with a back-up QB after his MVP candidate QB went down for the year.  That’s not a fluke.  This is, also, the first really bad year they have had under him.  

He has his faults, but this year reminds me A LOT of Andy Reid’s last year in Philly, and that has worked out fantastic for Kansas City.  Sometimes coaches press, especially when their jobs are on the line.

[BroadwayRay]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Howie had the final say on draft picks, but Douglas’s responsibility was more than the draft.  He was Howie’s right hand man for everything, including FA.

I’m not trying to prop JD up too much, but in his first draft he showed an emphasis on OL and found a WR more promising than any single WR Philly has drafted in almost a decade.  The emphasis on OL in Philly vanished when he left.  What’s more likely:  JD being overridden on a ton of important draft decisions (a lot of people in the Philly FO did NOT want guys like JJ Arcega-Whiteside, but Roseman was insistent on grabbing him) and Howie being responsible for all of those poor drafts, or JD being the problem in Philly during his tenure there??

Where did you get this from?

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Where did you get this from?

Huge article came out a while ago in The Philadelphia Inquirer.  I’ll see if I can dig it up, but basically scouts and personnel guys are sick and tired of being ignored by Roseman on draft day, a recurring theme since he got his position back after the Chip Kelly fiasco, and started to leak information to reporters.  One of which spoke about JJAW.

[GreekJet]

The Eagles have the worst offensive personnel in the NFL right now. Backup OL, scrap heap receivers, no Ertz. 
 

 

[Mogglez]

Found some screenshots I saved from the article @BroadwayRay:

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

15 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but the dude is a Super Bowl winning Head Coach, and he did it with a back-up QB after his MVP candidate QB went down for the year.  That’s not a fluke.  This is, also, the first really bad year they have had under him.  

He has his faults, but this year reminds me A LOT of Andy Reid’s last year in Philly, and that has worked out fantastic for Kansas City.  Sometimes coaches press, especially when their jobs are on the line.

Yeah I’d be all for Pederson. We could do a whole lot worse. He’s an actual HC and can lead a team. Not just a glorified OC. 

[jvill 51]

10 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but the dude is a Super Bowl winning Head Coach, and he did it with a back-up QB after his MVP candidate QB went down for the year.  That’s not a fluke.  This is, also, the first really bad year they have had under him.  

He has his faults, but this year reminds me A LOT of Andy Reid’s last year in Philly, and that has worked out fantastic for Kansas City.  Sometimes coaches press, especially when their jobs are on the line.

Fair, especially the bolded. And I think if push comes to shove he probably won’t be fired anyway. But if he is, and the Jets hire him, I’ll still have a tough time getting past: a) the awful job he’s done this year in the decision making and play calling departments and b) the idea that Frank Reich was the driving force behind that SB winning offense. Seems like a huge roll of the dice to entrust a Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields to a guy who, like you said, had an MVP candidate QB who completely face-planted within 3 years.

[kdels62]

25 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Howie had the final say on draft picks, but Douglas’s responsibility was more than the draft.  He was Howie’s right hand man for everything, including FA.

I’m not trying to prop JD up too much, but in his first draft he showed an emphasis on OL and found a WR more promising than any single WR Philly has drafted in almost a decade.  The emphasis on OL in Philly vanished when he left.  What’s more likely:  JD being overridden on a ton of important draft decisions (a lot of people in the Philly FO did NOT want guys like JJ Arcega-Whiteside, but Roseman was insistent on grabbing him) and Howie being responsible for all of those poor drafts, or JD being the problem in Philly during his tenure there??

They’ve had one draft since JD left there hasn’t been a lack of emphasis on OL. They drafted 2 OL last year.

[Mogglez]

9 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

Fair, especially the bolded. And I think if push comes to shove he probably won’t be fired anyway. But if he is, and the Jets hire him, I’ll still have a tough time getting past: a) the awful job he’s done this year in the decision making and play calling departments and b) the idea that Frank Reich was the driving force behind that SB winning offense. Seems like a huge roll of the dice to entrust a Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields to a guy who, like you said, had an MVP candidate QB who completely face-planted within 3 years.

I, ultimately, think he stays...but I’m not as confident as I was a couple weeks ago with that prediction.

As for the rest of the post, I’ll say this: No one has a clue what is going on with Wentz right now.  The dude was incredibly efficient as recently as last year.  If it were a gradual drop off, followed by an absolute dive...I’d blame Doug.  Carson just fell off a freakin’ cliff, and I don’t have a single answer as to why.  It’s unreal.  For 4 years, Wentz looked like one of the best young QBs in football, largely due to the tutelage of Pederson.  I’d absolutely trust him with Lawrence or Fields.  The Eagles offense still looked good after Reich left.  I’m not taking anything away from Reich because he is a great coach, but I don’t know if he was the “mastermind” of that offense.  

[Mogglez]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

They’ve had one draft since JD left there hasn’t been a lack of emphasis on OL. They drafted 2 OL last year.

And what about Free Agency?  Also, I wouldn’t call a late 4th and 6th as “prioritizing OL”, when they needed guys as badly as we did.

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 hour ago, The Crusher said:

Yes, Jamal playing well against a team with a losing record. Clutch son, clutch. 

Don't worry, they got him for the playoffs. 

[#27TheDominator]

Douglas got to Philly in May of 2016.  They had already selected Wentz and the free agency period was pretty much over.  Douglas was there for the 2017 draft.  Big whoop. He was there for the signing and extension of Jeffrey.  What exactly are we giving him credit for?  Ajayi? Legarette Blount? Torrey Smith? The one pick I remember him being linked to was Donnell Pumphrey.  I don't know how true that is, but that certainly is not a good look. 

[kdels62]

23 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

And what about Free Agency?  Also, I wouldn’t call a late 4th and 6th as “prioritizing OL”, when they needed guys as badly as we did.

They had an established starter at RT RG C, they brought back Peters to play guard, they were gonna start last years first rounder at LT, they paid last years primary backup in Seumalo, and then they drafted 2 guys. 

Douglas was neither their savior nor their biggest problem. I believe he’ll be good for us but we can’t ignore those bad years of drafting.

[JetsFanatic]

Perhaps Wentz should not have attended Gases’s QB camp during this past summer. 

[section314]

If the Eagles were smart, they dump Wentz and keep Pederson.

[Losmeister]

7 hours ago, jvill 51 said:

Fair, especially the bolded. And I think if push comes to shove he probably won’t be fired anyway. But if he is, and the Jets hire him, I’ll still have a tough time getting past: a) the awful job he’s done this year in the decision making and play calling departments and b) the idea that Frank Reich was the driving force behind that SB winning offense. Seems like a huge roll of the dice to entrust a Trevor Lawrence or Justin Fields to a guy who, like you said, had an MVP candidate QB who completely face-planted within 3 years.

wtf is it with the players not owning thier own performance???    wentz sucking is wentz sucking. 

[morny]

To be fair, Pederson is having a bad year this year and is far from perfect, but he's got them to the playoffs the last two years as well despite buckets of injuries (a recurring theme of their's and that is one question mark of Pederson). 

He'd be different to a lot of other potential candidates as he'd be an all-around HC rather than just a OC (or DC) acting as a HC - be good to have a proper CEO type in charge rather than somebody who only really cares about one side of the ball. 

 

[Losmeister]

andif u ever doubted whta an absolutePOS shcwartz is

 

 

[morny]

49 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

andif u ever doubted whta an absolutePOS shcwartz is

 

 

Schwartz disputes that to be fair - he said that before the game he praised and complimented Metcalf, told him he was with Megatron and he's the closest thing to Megatron he's seen. Then after the game said "you may not be Megatron yet but well on your way". 

Looks like it's Metcalf just doing that thing that a lot of athletes do is finding a perceived slight out of nothing, and using it to fuel him (Michael Jordan-esque)

[Sonny Werblin]

I'd like to partner with Russell Wilson on an off-season "Long Ball School". Tuition is $75,000. 

I love Russell Wilson, but his long ball skills are what truly set him apart. Take that away from him and he's average to above average and not an MVP caliber player. 

[Scott Dierking]

I still can't believe the want by some to have Pederson be the next Jets HC. His first 5 drives last night were 3 and outs. That is Gaseish. His 4th down and 2 point decisions are curios and reckless. 

Stay far away. 

[jvill 51]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

wtf is it with the players not owning thier own performance???    wentz sucking is wentz sucking. 

You’re right, why even have coaches at all?

[jvill 51]

2 hours ago, Losmeister said:

wtf is it with the players not owning thier own performance???    wentz sucking is wentz sucking. 

 

16 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

You’re right, why even have coaches at all?

To be clear, I’m not absolving Wentz of blame. But Pederson’s, and his staff’s, job is to figure out what the hell has gone wrong with Wentz and fix it, call plays that have a better chance of success, or get someone else in the game. They’ve failed miserably at it this year.
 

Pederson received a ton of credit for taking a small school QB and having him play MVP caliber ball by year 2. By that same logic, Wentz’s complete regression should absolutely be a blight on his resume as a coach.

[Losmeister]

45 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

To be clear, I’m not absolving Wentz of blame. But Pederson’s, and his staff’s, job is to figure out what the hell has gone wrong with Wentz and fix it, call plays that have a better chance of success, or get someone else in the game. They’ve failed miserably at it this year.
Pederson received a ton of credit for taking a small school QB and having him play MVP caliber ball by year 2. By that same logic, Wentz’s complete regression should absolutely be a blight on his resume as a coach.

i'll speak for myself. i didnt know wtf Pederson was and i gave him zero credit for Wentz balling whenhe was balling.

Reich I knew and know and think is a solid OC/QB guy.

Ravens took out Flacco @ 4-5 and closed out 6-1

same coaches, same surroundings, same teammates.

Barry Sanders played for 7 different OCs.

PLayers are not automobiles and coaches are not mechanics that "fix" them. 

Nobody in the world was ever gonna "fix" Deshone freaking Kizer.

Yes, they should put Hurts in already.

 

[jvill 51]

11 minutes ago, Losmeister said:

i'll speak for myself. i didnt know wtf Pederson was and i gave him zero credit for Wentz balling whenhe was balling.

Reich I knew and know and think is a solid OC/QB guy.

Ravens took out Flacco @ 4-5 and closed out 6-1

same coaches, same surroundings, same teammates.

Barry Sanders played for 7 different OCs.

PLayers are not automobiles and coaches are not mechanics that "fix" them. 

Nobody in the world was ever gonna "fix" Deshone freaking Kizer.

Yes, they should put Hurts in already.

 

I don’t think Kizer and Wentz are comparable situations. Wentz has demonstrated an ability, over multiple seasons now, to be an awesome NFL QB. There’s a level of play to strive to get back to, whereas with Kizer you’d be looking for him to achieve something he’s never been close to achieving at the NFL level, i.e. competent QB play.

I’m not sure what the Ravens situation has to do with this but the Ravens completely reconfigured their offense on the fly with a completely different type of QB that the NFL didn’t have tape on. They didn’t ask Jackson to do nearly the same things that they asked Flacco to do. But again, not sure what that has to do with Wentz and the Eagles.

More to the point though, I have no idea if Wentz is salvageable or if it’s something that is fixable with better coaching. Maybe it’s not strictly the head coach’s job the way the Eagles are set up, but there’s a QB coach for a reason. If his job isn’t to get the QB to play better, then what exactly is the purpose of the position? Again, I don’t know if this is a coaching issue. But my point is simply that if this can be fixed with coaching and Wentz can play closer to the level he has in the past, then the Eagles coaching staff has failed in that regard, and the buck ultimately stops with the head coach. And, although you haven’t done this, if you’re going to give Pederson credit on his resume for Wentz’s good play, you also have to ding him for Wentz’s poor play.

Personally, I align more with you and think Wentz’s regression is much more of a Wentz problem than a coaching problem (although I do think it’s not completely black and white and surrounding talent and coaching, specifically awful play calling, play some role). But even if we say that Pederson bears NO responsibility for Wentz’s poor play, or any of the players’ performance at all, we’re left with evaluating Pederson’s in-game decisions, which have been horrendous.

And I guess this all was really just a long-winded way of saying that however you slice it and whatever the things are that you think a coach controls and impacts, Pederson has been god awful this year.

[Losmeister]

20 minutes ago, jvill 51 said:

I don’t think Kizer and Wentz are comparable situations. Wentz has demonstrated an ability, over multiple seasons now, to be an awesome NFL QB. There’s a level of play to strive to get back to, whereas with Kizer you’d be looking for him to achieve something he’s never been close to achieving at the NFL level, i.e. competent QB play.

I’m not sure what the Ravens situation has to do with this but the Ravens completely reconfigured their offense on the fly with a completely different type of QB that the NFL didn’t have tape on. They didn’t ask Jackson to do nearly the same things that they asked Flacco to do. But again, not sure what that has to do with Wentz and the Eagles.

More to the point though, I have no idea if Wentz is salvageable or if it’s something that is fixable with better coaching. Maybe it’s not strictly the head coach’s job the way the Eagles are set up, but there’s a QB coach for a reason. If his job isn’t to get the QB to play better, then what exactly is the purpose of the position? Again, I don’t know if this is a coaching issue. But my point is simply that if this can be fixed with coaching and Wentz can play closer to the level he has in the past, then the Eagles coaching staff has failed in that regard, and the buck ultimately stops with the head coach. And, although you haven’t done this, if you’re going to give Pederson credit on his resume for Wentz’s good play, you also have to ding him for Wentz’s poor play.

Personally, I align more with you and think Wentz’s regression is much more of a Wentz problem than a coaching problem (although I do think it’s not completely black and white and surrounding talent and coaching, specifically awful play calling, play some role). But even if we say that Pederson bears NO responsibility for Wentz’s poor play, or any of the players’ performance at all, we’re left with evaluating Pederson’s in-game decisions, which have been horrendous.

And I guess this all was really just a long-winded way of saying that however you slice it and whatever the things are that you think a coach controls and impacts, Pederson has been god awful this year.

My point is that NO COACH was gonna "fix" Kizer. Or make him good in the nFL.

Just like nobody could fix Shaqs free throw.

Not that he, Kizer, and Wentz are comparable.

Wentz played a poor rookie season follow by a very good season and 2 solid seasons.

Pederson was the coach the whole time. So...  shrug? Pederson broke him? 

And I am in no way defending Pederson, DGAF about the Iggles. 

It's all to say the credit given to coaches  in both directions is wayyyy   over the top, imho.

Of course, there will be plays where the D gets the better and there is zero or close to zero opp for success.

Sports psychology is a fascinating thing. 

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, Losmeister said:

wtf is it with the players not owning thier own performance???    wentz sucking is wentz sucking. 

But why did Wentz have a 97/21 TD:INT ratio from 2017-19, only to put up 16/15 this season?  I don't think its quite so simple to just say Wentz sucks and always sucked, like it is with Darnold.

[Losmeister]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

But why did Wentz have a 97/21 TD:INT ratio from 2017-19, only to put up 16/15 this season?  I don't think its quite so simple to just say Wentz sucks and always sucked, like it is with Darnold.

i didnt say wentz sucked and always sucked.

hes got the same mfing hc as he always had...   i'd love to be able to explain why qb's play badly sometimes and well others. 

but simply blaming the hc is insane. he's not a remote control robot.  and sports pschology is a thing... cos the brain and performance is a thing.