New York Jets' Adam Gase admits he hasn't helped Sam Darnold develop as NFL QB

[ZachEY]

3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Except I've watched Sam and I see potential.  I think the game isn't slowing down for him because of OL, weapons and coaching.

As for the Vegas line, agreed it's there to attract bets on both sides but someone has to set the initial line, don't they?  They tend to do an amazing job with that.  If they didn't then they wouldn't be in business.  But my point is less about the W's and L's and far more about the blowouts.  We're not even competitive in about half of our games.

Agreed there is "potential."  He's always had that.  But, all the evidence suggests that potential is likely to go wasted because of the mountains of problems he's got, that aren't getting any better.  And he's making the same mistakes he made in college with weapons and oline that were far superior to his opponents.

If it's Gase, why wasn't Vegas able to predict Gase's bad coaching?  He's been in the league for a while.  There's plenty of evidence out there on him.

[Jetsfan80]

58 minutes ago, freestater said:

All these years later and ole' Chaddy-boy is still the best Jets QB this century. 

 

False.

 

 

[Jetsfan80]

15 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Except I've watched Sam and I see potential.  I think the game isn't slowing down for him because of OL, weapons and coaching.

As for the Vegas line, agreed it's there to attract bets on both sides but someone has to set the initial line, don't they?  They tend to do an amazing job with that.  If they didn't then they wouldn't be in business.  But my point is less about the W's and L's and far more about the blowouts.  We're not even competitive in about half of our games.

 

And that's where the data is important.  Because the "eye test" alone is severely flawed.

The eye test causes people to say Darnold played like an elite QB for X number of games.  And even that's not true.  When you look at the numbers he put up in the best stretches of his career, even when extrapolated to a full season, that dataset would rank him in the middle of the pack among NFL QB's.

So even when you only look at the best Sam Darnold brings to the table, he's still merely....average.  His ceiling is Andy Dalton.  This tells me that the eye test evaluation made by Darnold apologists is based mostly on emotion and unfounded optimism, and also involves not looking at other QB's around the league with an objective eye.

[Losmeister]

21 hours ago, jetophile said:

I wouldn't call that dirty pool, Carlitos, I would call it a murky one with brackish water from the Swamplands of the New Jersey Bottoms. Word Play.

i think Gase likes sam and believes in him and wants him to do well. 

he just doesnt wanna say that he has about 1/2 tannehills capacity to playtheposistion...

[More Cowbell]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Oooh, not a YouTuber with a whopping 900 views.  That's something I take about as seriously as your posts.

SAR I

Dispute what he's saying.

Hint: you can't

[BornJetsFan1983]

9 hours ago, TeddEY said:

No one is blaming Darnold for the playcalling, they're blaming him for the execution.  If the mindless turnovers aren't enough, how many more All-22 shots do you need of him not throwing to wide open WRs will it take?

haha well I would say its unfari to say darnold is the issue there. ANy other coach in the league and the guys is top half of starters. He makes rook mistakes because of coaching staff. yeah saying he shouldnt make mistakes liek that anymore is find and dandy but Qbs dont just stop making those mistakes unless thier are coached up and learn not to. 

Crap coaches like McCarthy as bad as they are doing now, for sake of argument you could agree, it he were our coach would have help Darnold Grow past this stuff. I dont want him as a coach, but as bad as he is, he can teach a qb. Gase can not and you get what we got here. A talent young guy with alot of potential making dumbass mistakes because he is on his own without a NFL quality staff around him.

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

Dispute what he's saying.

Hint: you can't

Summarize what he’s saying. I can’t stomach amateur YouTubers.  

SAR I

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

haha well I would say its unfari to say darnold is the issue there. ANy other coach in the league and the guys is top half of starters. He makes rook mistakes because of coaching staff. yeah saying he shouldnt make mistakes liek that anymore is find and dandy but Qbs dont just stop making those mistakes unless thier are coached up and learn not to. 

Crap coaches like McCarthy as bad as they are doing now, for sake of argument you could agree, it he were our coach would have help Darnold Grow past this stuff. I dont want him as a coach, but as bad as he is, he can teach a qb. Gase can not and you get what we got here. A talent young guy with alot of potential making dumbass mistakes because he is on his own without a NFL quality staff around him.

Wait, so Darnold is not at fault when he misses wide open WRs or throws YOLO balls to the other team?

If we're going to make outlandish claims, why stop at top half of the league.  Why not just say that with better coaching, he's the GOAT.

And, no, I won't agree.  A coach isn't going to help Darnold grow past this.  This is who he is.  He made the same stupid mistakes in college.  He made them with Bowles.  He's making them with Gase.  Your actual take is that, no one is telling him, "throw to the open guy" or "don't throw to the other team" in 3 years (plus college), and that's more likely then he just can't do it.

That is some Grade A galaxy brain sh*t right there.

[munchmemory]

[More Cowbell]

32 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Summarize what he’s saying. I can’t stomach amateur YouTubers.  

SAR I

Stop being a tool. You know what he is saying

[MARTIN]

8 hours ago, SAR I said:

Consider yourself enlightened.  When things don't go the way you expect on Black Monday now you know why.

SAR I

If Gase is retained, i will go back through your posts and give credit where it is due. I just think you are WAY off, thats all. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Wait, so Darnold is not at fault when he misses wide open WRs or throws YOLO balls to the other team?

If we're going to make outlandish claims, why stop at top half of the league.  Why not just say that with better coaching, he's the GOAT.

And, no, I won't agree.  A coach isn't going to help Darnold grow past this.  This is who he is.  He made the same stupid mistakes in college.  He made them with Bowles.  He's making them with Gase.  Your actual take is that, no one is telling him, "throw to the open guy" or "don't throw to the other team" in 3 years (plus college), and that's more likely then he just can't do it.

That is some Grade A galaxy brain sh*t right there.

Any rookie with talent is coached up to not make these throws. All fixable with his talent. Burrow, herbert etc are just recent examples. Coaching a qb and building an effective game plan is alot more that just throw to the open guy friend.

 

[Gibby]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:27 PM, Gibby said:

You’re such a ******* troll. Don’t think I (any many others here) don’t remember your weekly post on Jets Insider about those comebacks ( ironically enough) you’re now referring to. You remember-The Lions, The Browns, The Texans. Remember???? The Jets and Sanchez were lucky- not good. And now- you’re trying to draw the comparison to that very stretch along with Sanchez and the playoff run that was more about the defense. ?

 

[ZachEY]

21 minutes ago, BornJetsFan1983 said:

Any rookie with talent is coached up to not make these throws. All fixable with his talent. Burrow, herbert etc are just recent examples. Coaching a qb and building an effective game plan is alot more that just throw to the open guy friend.

 

I mean, you basically just named QBs who are good, and said, "Sam could be them."  That's not an actual argument.

Here's one.

Joe Burrow had a 10:1 TD to INT ratio in his final year of college.  Justin Herbert had a 16:3 TD to INT ratio his final year of college.  Sam Darnold had a 2:1 ratio his final year college.

Maybe...

Just Maybe...

Sam Darnold isn't good.

 

[GreekJet]

5 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, you basically just named QBs who are good, and said, "Sam could be them."  That's not an actual argument.

Here's one.

Joe Burrow had a 10:1 TD to INT ratio in his final year of college.  Justin Herbert had a 16:3 TD to INT ratio his final year of college.  Sam Darnold had a 2:1 ratio his final year college.

Maybe...

Just Maybe...

Sam Darnold isn't good.

 

Yes, but my issue with a lot of the Darnold haters on this board is the lack of accountability for the organization. 
 

You realize since 2006 the Jets have invested more draft capital than any other team in the league on the QB position? 
 

Is it possible that the Jets just aren’t good at developing this position?

[ZachEY]

7 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Yes, but my issue with a lot of the Darnold haters on this board is the lack of accountability for the organization. 
 

You realize since 2006 the Jets have invested more draft capital than any other team in the league on the QB position? 
 

Is it possible that the Jets just aren’t good at developing this position?

There are a number of problems with this.

First, define “most draft capital.”  Is it the most amount of picks?  Are the picks weighted by value towards the top of the draft?

Second, why 2006?  Is there something important about that year or did we arbitrarily decided to start the season we traded up, and spent 2 high picks for Sanchez?

Third, the team spent 4 picks on one QB, we should expect them to be towards the top based on that alone.  We can bet that Washington is close to the top based on RGIII, as well.  Despite the amount of picks, they both remain just one player.

Fourth, there is nothing inherent about the Jets, unless you can point to specifics, that would cause the organization itself to be bad at this.  This is important because since the arbitrary 2006, you’re talking about multiple coaching staffs with dozens of coaches who are unlinked.  The least number of ‘touches,’ if you will, is GMs, as there have been 4, and really only 3, as Douglas’s drafting of James Morgan isn’t meaningfully relevant.

There’s more, but we can stop at 4.

[Philc1]

6 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Yes, but my issue with a lot of the Darnold haters on this board is the lack of accountability for the organization. 
 

You realize since 2006 the Jets have invested more draft capital than any other team in the league on the QB position? 
 

Is it possible that the Jets just aren’t good at developing this position?

Gase is maybe the worst offensive head coach ever.  Macagnan built a horrible roster

 

Sam was going to bust here no matter what.  That’s why we need to hire Jim Harbaugh and spend like crazy in free agency

[SAR I]

13 hours ago, MARTIN said:

If Gase is retained, i will go back through your posts and give credit where it is due. I just think you are WAY off, thats all. 

I'm not looking for credit.  I'm trying to help you understand why Gase is coming back next year and why, in many respects, that is a great thing.

SAR I

[SAR I]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:27 PM, Gibby said:

Don’t think I (any many others here) don’t remember your weekly post on Jets Insider about those comebacks ( ironically enough) you’re now referring to. You remember-The Lions, The Browns, The Texans. Remember???? The Jets and Sanchez were lucky- not good. And now- you’re trying to draw the comparison to that very stretch along with Sanchez and the playoff run that was more about the defense. ?

At this very moment in his 3rd professional season, Mark Sanchez had already completed two deep playoff runs, had 5 epic 4th quarter comebacks, had a record of 32-19, had a stretch where he won16 of 20 games, and was sitting at 8-5 with 3 easy games to play before Rex Ryan's defense sh*t the bed and let the 6-8 Eagles wipe the floor with his defense and the next week let Victor Cruz go 99 yards to end an era.

Sam Darnold?  Don't even mention his name in the same sentence with Mark Sanchez.  Mark is the second-best quarterback in team history; Sam is second from the bottom.

SAR I

[SAR I]

11 hours ago, GreekJet said:

Yes, but my issue with a lot of the Darnold haters on this board is the lack of accountability for the organization. 

You realize since 2006 the Jets have invested more draft capital than any other team in the league on the QB position? 

Is it possible that the Jets just aren’t good at developing this position?

Ya think?

We had a great franchise quarterback prospect, a kid who came out of college early, was thrown immediately into the fire in the biggest media cauldron in the league, and all he did was put on the greatest tryout we've ever seen.  He had a record of 32-19, had a stretch where he won 16 of 20 games, won 4 out of 6 road playoff games, went 9-7 then 11-5 and was sitting at 8-5 in his third season and the Jets mismanagement of his development is one of the worst affronts in team history.

They weep for Sam Darnold and they curse Mark Sanchez.  It's unbelievable.

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

15 hours ago, SAR I said:

Summarize what he’s saying. I can’t stomach amateur YouTubers.  

SAR I

This should be more your speed. 

Dispute Keyshawn Johnson

[SAR I]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

This should be more your speed. 

Dispute Keyshawn Johnson

The New York metro market is enormous, over 20 million people.  To put that in context, Miami is 9 million, Boston is 5 million, and Jacksonville is less than 2 million.  1/4 of the teams in the NFL combined don't equal the size of our market.

Picking on the Jets and making mountains out of every molehill is the easiest way for these talking-head robots to get clicks, wailing on the Jets is a million dollar business.  Hell, we even do this ourselves on JN, ever see a Greenbean hit piece?  Not hard to miss, he does a Gase assassination every week.

They are winding you up to get you to click click click and whine whine whine.  Stop being so gullible.

SAR I

[More Cowbell]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The New York metro market is enormous, over 20 million people.  To put that in context, Miami is 9 million, Boston is 5 million, and Jacksonville is less than 2 million.  1/4 of the teams in the NFL combined don't equal the size of our market.

Picking on the Jets and making mountains out of every molehill is the easiest way for these talking-head robots to get clicks, wailing on the Jets is a million dollar business.  Hell, we even do this ourselves on JN, ever see a Greenbean hit piece?  Not hard to miss, he does a Gase assassination every week.

They are winding you up to get you to click click click and whine whine whine.  Stop being so gullible.

SAR I

So your answer is:

I got nothing to dispute what he is saying so here is my strawman.

[Gibby]

58 minutes ago, SAR I said:

At this very moment in his 3rd professional season, Mark Sanchez had already completed two deep playoff runs, had 5 epic 4th quarter comebacks, had a record of 32-19, had a stretch where he won16 of 20 games, and was sitting at 8-5 with 3 easy games to play before Rex Ryan's defense sh*t the bed and let the 6-8 Eagles wipe the floor with his defense and the next week let Victor Cruz go 99 yards to end an era.

Sam Darnold?  Don't even mention his name in the same sentence with Mark Sanchez.  Mark is the second-best quarterback in team history; Sam is second from the bottom.

SAR I

Has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my point. I’ve been watching you stir the pot for 18 years now. Your only objective near as I can tell is to be contrary. Are you saying you did not create those post back then? You won’t get an argument from me that Darnold is now a bust. I’m just not happy about like you are.

[Green DNA]

It's laughable to see all the posters that were splooging all over themselves when we drafted Darnold, talking about how they knew he was bad at USC.  Revisionist history at its best. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Green DNA said:

It's laughable to see all the posters that were splooging all over themselves when we drafted Darnold, talking about how they knew he was bad at USC.  Revisionist history at its best. 

Darnold was my top choice in the 2018 draft.  It doesn't mean he wasn't a flawed prospect while he was there.  I, too, bought into the hype that came from his Rose Bowl performance.  Just like current Darnold apologists still buy into the hype from the Packer game his rookie season.  It's not revisionist history to point out his flaws at USC, especially since quite a few scouts/analysts were pointing them out at the time as well.  

With new information comes shifting opinion.  The data on Darnold is clear:  He's a very bad QB.  We got this one wrong.  Time for a new QB.

[BettyBoop]

7 hours ago, SAR I said:

The New York metro market is enormous, over 20 million people.  To put that in context, Miami is 9 million, Boston is 5 million, and Jacksonville is less than 2 million.  1/4 of the teams in the NFL combined don't equal the size of our market.

Picking on the Jets and making mountains out of every molehill is the easiest way for these talking-head robots to get clicks, wailing on the Jets is a million dollar business.  Hell, we even do this ourselves on JN, ever see a Greenbean hit piece?  Not hard to miss, he does a Gase assassination every week.

They are winding you up to get you to click click click and whine whine whine.  Stop being so gullible.

SORE I

 

[Charlie Brown]

I am slightly amused by those who keep saying just get Trevor Lawrence, all will be well and then we will win a SB!

Again it doesn't work that way........ a QB needs SUPPORT I don't care how great you are...

Simple an QB organization and Team play win Championships!

Don't believe me????

Just go and ask Dan Marino about all his NFL Championships.......

And please for the LOVE OF GOD don't dare compare Adam Gase to Don Shula!!

It is a JOKE!

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, Charlie Brown said:

I am slightly amused by those who keep saying just get Trevor Lawrence, all will be well and then we will win a SB!

Again it doesn't work that way........ a QB needs SUPPORT I don't care how great you are...

Simple an QB organization and Team play win Championships!

Don't believe me????

Just go and ask Dan Marino about all his NFL Championships.......

And please for the LOVE OF GOD don't dare compare Adam Gase to Don Shula!!

It is a JOKE!

 

Hence why we have 8 picks in the first 5 rounds of the 2021 draft, and four first round picks in the next 2 drafts.  Plus more cap space than any other NFL team, in a year where the cap will be dropping precipitously.  Plus we'll be hiring a new HC.  

That enough?  Or should we wait a few years to draft a QB, just to be safe?

[Charlie Brown]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Hence why we have 8 picks in the first 5 rounds of the 2021 draft, and four first round picks in the next 2 drafts.  Plus more cap space than any other NFL team, in a year where the cap will be dropping precipitously.  Plus we'll be hiring a new HC.  

That enough?  Or should we wait a few years to draft a QB, just to be safe?

Your post agrees with me!

I think that we are in a good place as long as we (the Jets Ownership) permits JD to make this coaching pick, with Gase and his stench out of here!

[Xtina]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:18 AM, TuscanyTile2 said:

 

Well at least he can’t get any worse. At least I don’t think so 

[CanadienJetsFan]

I love reading the passion in all your posts. 

We can debate this chicken or the egg thing( Darnold vs Gase) thing until the season ends but it won’t change what’s taken place. 
Simply put, it’s been a train wreck.

everybody from the players ( not executing), to coaching ( poorly coaching/planning/ preparing/ etc) to the GM ( past, and current GM ) to ownership ( the buck stops at their doorstep) are to blame. I guess that’s what crappy sport organizations do. They keep shooting themselves in the foot.

To me, either we land the 1st or the 2nd pick is irrelevant because big changes are heading our way regardless.

Sam’s gonna move on ( and I wish him well...hopefully with an NFC team), the GM has a million picks and a blank canvas to work with, and a new coaching staff will be given the responsibility to establish a culture of winning.

All this as a fan ( and a long time suffering fan like many of you) I can accept.

But I won’t accept more Gase. He’s failed. Heck, he even admitted publicly. 

He doesn’t deserve to be given the chance to mold another 1st round draft pick.  Interesting fact, It would his 3rd! (Tannehill, Sam, and whoever we draft next)

Yes, if Gase remains, it would be his 3rd chance to coach a first round QB. Allowing him to do so is what Eisenstein meant when he said :

So this decision lands on the laps of the Johnsons. Other than the continuity argument, I can’t see any other reason why they would retain his services. He’s a losing coach with a losing record with bottom tier offensive stats year after year after bloody year.  The #’s don’t lie.

Oh, did I mention that he’s already failed developing 2 #1 QB draft picks already?

So for all that’s good in the World, Woody, CJ, PLEASE  fire Gase. 

I’m not naive enough to think that you’ll let Douglas pick the next coach. You should but you won’t. So just let your GM bring you 3 viable options. Then pick one.