New York Jets' Adam Gase admits he hasn't helped Sam Darnold develop as NFL QB

[Dcat]

11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, you have a scapegoat for everything.

You can criticize Gase's offensive production and stats all you want, you aren't wrong.  But Gase is doing a masterful job as an administrator, hiring Douglas and partnering with him to rebuild this thing as quickly as possible, that cannot be denied.  The man is decisive, he sized up Bell immediately and cut bait with Darnold when it was clear he busted. 

I can't think of a single front office exec we booted or a single player we have gotten rid of that was a mistake and I can't think of a single draft pick that we can say isn't tracking well and the likes of Becton and Mims look special-  under Adam Gase's tutelage, I might add.

A head coach is a lot more than W's and L's and statistics.  We are a rebuild.  We aren't actually trying to win right now.

SAR I

Gase isn't a scapegoat.  He's the biggest part of the Jets problem.  So the use of "scapegoat" is just another absurdity in your lunatic point of view regarding the sht show of Gase.

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

5 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Sam was indeed coming along in year 1 as his game stats improved.  That's no "feeling", but rather fact.  Look, I get your motives here.  You claim that Darnold sucked from the beginning and imply that he never had a shot notwithstanding his terrible coaches.  That is a false narrative IMO, but it seems to make you feel better about the coaching here.   The Jets coaches have been atrocious with QBs and that's obvious.  But if it makes you feel better, then go on ahead with your claim that implies that Darnold wouldn't have been any good under anyway... with the implication that he would be terrible under any coaching staff.  Now *that* is nothing more than presumption and probably based on some kind of "feelings" rather than facts.  That's just an unknown that for some reason you wish to cling to.  I think it's bullsht. 100%.  

 

so much ginger feelings

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Gase has been a HC for 5 years now and (according to you) he still hasn't learned that lesson, yet you still defend him?

I believe that Adam Gase plus the addition of a great offensive coordinator is the answer.  

In trying to find an offensive guru we accidentally found a great head coach and that's much harder to do.  Keep Gase as HC and let him do what he's good at.  Hire the best young offensive mind out of college or the pro's as OC and let him design a brilliant offense and call all the plays.  That is how we should do it. 

And we will.  Because the days of the Johnson's being influenced by entitled crybaby Mets fans is over.

SAR I

[peebag]

I really hope that the 'great' Adam Gase takes over in New England.

[Dcat]

1 minute ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

so much ginger feelings

Do ginger's have the capacity for feelings?

[JetPotato]

20 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Are you Woody or Chrissy?

Stop. Huge difference. 

Chris and Woody, despite never actually having earned a penny, are still legitimate rich dudes.

This SAR character just likes to think he's a rich dude. A middle class nobody who has deluded himself into believing he's elite because he moved to Ridgewood, drives a base model Beemer and paid for a PSL.

[TuscanyTile2]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, you have a scapegoat for everything.

You can criticize Gase's offensive production and stats all you want, you aren't wrong.  But Gase is doing a masterful job as an administrator, hiring Douglas and partnering with him to rebuild this thing as quickly as possible, that cannot be denied.  The man is decisive, he sized up Bell immediately and cut bait with Darnold when it was clear he busted. 

I can't think of a single front office exec we booted or a single player we have gotten rid of that was a mistake and I can't think of a single draft pick that we can say isn't tracking well and the likes of Becton and Mims look special-  under Adam Gase's tutelage, I might add.

A head coach is a lot more than W's and L's and statistics.  We are a rebuild.  We aren't actually trying to win right now.

SAR I

Joe D was known around the NFL as one of the up-and-coming candidates.  But to whatever extent Gase helped get him in here (which might be very little, btw), then I'll praise him for that.  Heck, I'll even praise CJ for getting him signed. 

Beyond that, though, Gase's tenure has been absolutely atrocious.  Last year, you were even saying that he picked the players (e.g. "let's sign Le'veon Bell").  Of course, you've since backtracked because it doesn't fit your narrative.  

[Philc1]

1 minute ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Joe D was known around the NFL as one of the up-and-coming candidates.  But to whatever extent Gase helped get him in here (which might be very little, btw), then I'll praise him for that.  Heck, I'll even praise CJ for getting him signed. 

Beyond that, though, Gase's tenure has been absolutely atrocious.  Last year, you were even saying that he picked the players (e.g. "let's sign Le'veon Bell").  Of course, you've since backtracked because it doesn't fit your narrative.  

Gase is the worst head coach I have ever seen and I was here for the Kotite years

 

Jury is out on JD

 

[Philc1]

3 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

Stop. Huge difference. 

Chris and Woody, despite never actually having earned a penny, are still legitimate rich dudes.

This SAR character just likes to think he's a rich dude. A middle class nobody who has deluded himself into believing he's elite because he moved to Ridgewood, drives a base model Beemer and paid for a PSL.

If Gase is still here next season (which could happen) I’m becoming a Giants fan

[RoadFan]

I don't like the word "develop."  The good QBs improve on their own. 

The coach's job is to put a QB in an offensive system that fits what he does best.  On that accord, Gase failed.

Positive examples are the Ravens with Lamar Jackson.  Brady with the Pats.  Kyler.  Josh Allen.  Goff.

When Darnold flings a floater back across his body into coverage... that's on Darnold. 

Missing open guys?  On Darnold.

Having 10 yards of space to scramble for a 1st down and choosing not to?  Darnold.

They both suck.

 

[JetPotato]

3 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If Gase is still here next season (which could happen) I’m becoming a Giants fan

I'd finally jump ship too. But hell no on the Giants. 

Not even the Johnsons can be that stupid, though.

[TuscanyTile2]

17 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I believe that Adam Gase plus the addition of a great offensive coordinator is the answer.  

In trying to find an offensive guru we accidentally found a great head coach and that's much harder to do.  Keep Gase as HC and let him do what he's good at.  Hire the best young offensive mind out of college or the pro's as OC and let him design a brilliant offense and call all the plays.  That is how we should do it. 

And we will.  Because the days of the Johnson's being influenced by entitled crybaby Mets fans is over.

SAR I

Just to be clear, will the job of the "best young offensive mind out of college or the pro's" be to "call 3 plays" ("this is not hard")? 

Or I guess 2 plays since Adam calls the 3rd downs.  ("‘Hey, these are the three plays.’ I do the third downs.”")

I wonder how many top young offensive minds are going to want to work under Gase in such conditions, where he lies about what he's responsible for (so he can scapegoat the OC when necessary).  I'm sure there will be plenty of great candidates willing to bet their careers on Gase, considering his amazing track record so far!

 

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2020/11/30/jets-play-calling-adam-gase-dowell-loggains

[TuscanyTile2]

7 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If Gase is still here next season (which could happen) I’m becoming a Giants fan

It would be very difficult for me to continue to root for this franchise if Gase is brought back next year.  

[SAR I]

32 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

If Gase gets fired after this season, will you admit you were wrong?

No, I will admit the Jets were wrong and that's far worse.

SAR I

[SAR I]

20 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Peyton is not only one of greatest QBs of all time, he was also known for diagnosing plays at the LOS.  Nobody was better at it.  He'd have the team at the LOS and stand there for 10-15 seconds calling out audibles (or fake ones, as needed).  He ran the show.  

Since Gase had success with a franchise quarterback calling his own plays the fault is Darnold's for not affording Gase the same luxury.

SAR I

[Philc1]

2 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

It would be very difficult for me to continue to root for this franchise if Gase is brought back next year.  

If Gase survives this season it would be a new epic low in a long history of lows for this franchise

 

The only thing that could be worse - I don’t know

[Philc1]

Just now, SAR I said:

Since Gase had success with a franchise quarterback calling his own plays the fault is Darnold's for not affording Gase the same luxury.

SAR I

And that was Gase’s only success was Peyton Manning doing everything for him

[TuscanyTile2]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Since Gase had success with a franchise quarterback calling his own plays the fault is Darnold's for not affording Gase the same luxury.

SAR I

Peyton Manning had been in the NFL for like 15 years by the time Adam Gase was his OC.  Meanwhile, Sam was younger than the #1 overall pick in this past draft.

[TuscanyTile2]

9 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No, I will admit the Jets were wrong and that's far worse.

SAR I

Will you no longer root for the Jets if the franchise fires Gase after this year?

EDIT: And if they fire Gase after this season will you then admit that you were wrong about the Johnson family being n"alphas" then?  

[SAR I]

33 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Gase isn't a scapegoat.  He's the biggest part of the Jets problem.  So the use of "scapegoat" is just another absurdity in your lunatic point of view regarding the sht show of Gase.

For fun, take the W's and L's out of it.  Assume that, like almost all experts, the Jets were no better than a 5-11 team this season and it really doesn't matter if we win 5 games or 0.  Work with me here, just take the record out of it.

Now, tell me, what has Adam Gase done since he's been here that hasn't positioned the team for a brighter future?  Here's what I see:

* Maccagnan gone, Douglas an immediate improvement.
* Glat gone, Elhai not in Johnson's ear.
* Bad players on bad contracts gone (Trumaine, Bell, etc.)
* Serviceable older players traded for important future capital (Williamson, McLendon, etc.)
* Malcontents shown the door for a draft haul (Leonard, Jamal, etc.)
* Leaders brought here to help change the culture (Gore, Flacco, etc.)
* Strong draft with what looks like studs in Becton and Mims and potential in Mann, Davis, Perine.
* Darnold given half a season to show improvement, cut bait when it was clear he's a bust.
* Team playing hard every game, giving 100% effort, no one mailing it in.
* Lockerroom sticking together, no backstabbing, no social media, no 'unnamed sources'.

Only 20% of what a head coach does is about playcalling and play design.  That can be solved by a new offensive coordinator which we desperately need.  We don't lose a head coach that has the 80% nailed especially on a franchise that hasn't come close to someone with these HC abilities since 1998.  Gase is the solution.  It's hard for some to see because they are so frustrated with meaningless W's and L's and next gen stats brought to you by AWS.

SAR I
 

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Name another Jets quarterback who was this epically bad for 3 consecutive seasons as a starter.

Hint:  You can't.

SAR I

Browning Nagel

Actually that isn't  fair. Nagel was far worse than Darnold

Name another HC who has run teams with an O consistently ranked in the bottom third of the league his entire career who still has a job. 

Hint: You can't 

[ZachEY]

43 minutes ago, Dcat said:

Sam was indeed coming along in year 1 as his game stats improved.  That's no "feeling", but rather fact.  Look, I get your motives here.  You claim that Darnold sucked from the beginning and imply that he never had a shot notwithstanding his terrible coaches.  That is a false narrative IMO, but it seems to make you feel better about the coaching here.   The Jets coaches have been atrocious with QBs and that's obvious.  But if it makes you feel better, then go on ahead with your claim that implies that Darnold wouldn't have been any good anyway... with the implication that he would be terrible under any coaching staff.  Now *that* is nothing more than presumption and probably based on some kind of "feelings" rather than facts.  That's just an unknown that for some reason you wish to cling to.  I think it's bullsht. 100%.  The funniest thing is that you accuse others of expressing "feelings" and your position is nothing but the same.

 

I don't need to feel any better about the coaching, as my "narrative" has always been that coaching plays a much smaller role than people here like to pretend.  Bill Belichick came out this year in agreement with my position.  On top of that, we see a guy like Schottenheimer go on to run a successful offense, and we see guys like Sanchez go on to continue to be horrible.  All of the evidence is on my side here.

If it was all the Jets coaches fault, why haven't Hackenberg, Sanchez, Clemens, Geno, et al. gone on to improve when they got away from the Jets coaches.  The fact is, not only QBs, but you can name maybe one player in the last decade, who left the Jets, and went on to be a much better player.  Demario Davis, and he was pretty good here, and let go for financial reasons.  If there was any evidence of what you claim, you'd expect to see some examples of players, especially QBs, improving.  Please, tell me what Jets QBs have gone on to have better careers after they got away from the Jets coaching?  Be specific, as Jets mishandling of QBs is an iron-clad fact, in your mind.  Or, were they all, "ruined?"  Another concept you can't actually prove is a thing.

Meanwhile, it may be time to reconsider the definition of facts.  Because, your claim that Darnold could or would have been better with other coaches, isn't actually a fact.  The only facts are that Darnold is bad.  He was bad in his first year.  He was bad in his second year.  And he was bad in his third year.  Another coach would make him better is an opinion, and it's an unsubstantiated one.  Lastly, the idea that Darnold was always going to be bad has some actual merit in QBASE, which gave him an over 50% bust rate.  He also had the lowest Elite rate of every top QB in 2018.  So, again, when we look at actual data, not Dcat's feelings, there's plenty of support for Darnold not ever being good.

So, again, all available data is on my side.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

It's quite appropriate now.  All the geniuses who swore it would be soooooo easy to replace Mark Sanchez now have to answer for Sonny, Carlo.  Again.  Just like they have since the day they forced the Jets to get rid of him.

Greg McElroy
Geno Smith
Michael Vick
Ryan Fitzpatrick
Bryce Petty
Christian Hackenberg
Josh McCown
Sam Darnold

What a collection of talent.  Choosing Rex Ryan over Brian Schottenheimer, Mike Tannenbaum, and Mark Sanchez is what put us in this situation today, and it's fans like you that forced our owners to do it.  Merry Christmas.

SAR I

I'm sorry, are you trying.to say yo miss Mark Sanchez?

I think I now understand the Base obsession.

[More Cowbell]

1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

I mean, you all still don't realize that SAR's taking something that's true: Gase is getting too much blame for not being able to succeed with this sh*t roster and sh*t QB, and trolling the **** out of all of you with it.  Repeatedly.

Right, so as a result, the best play he can come up with on 2nd and 10 is running Gore up the middle and producing an O that can't  score when he calls the plays but his OC scored over 50 points when he did. 

Are you also going to tell me he is in on the tank?

[Dcat]

6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't need to feel any better about the coaching, as my "narrative" has always been that coaching plays a much smaller role than people here like to pretend.  Bill Belichick came out this year in agreement with my position.  On top of that, we see a guy like Schottenheimer go on to run a successful offense, and we see guys like Sanchez go on to continue to be horrible.  All of the evidence is on my side here.

If it was all the Jets coaches fault, why haven't Hackenberg, Sanchez, Clemens, Geno, et al. gone on to improve when they got away from the Jets coaches.  The fact is, not only QBs, but you can name maybe one player in the last decade, who left the Jets, and went on to be a much better player.  Demario Davis, and he was pretty good here, and let go for financial reasons.  If there was any evidence of what you claim, you'd expect to see some examples of players, especially QBs, improving.  Please, tell me what Jets QBs have gone on to have better careers after they got away from the Jets coaching?  Be specific, as Jets mishandling of QBs is an iron-clad fact, in your mind.  Or, were they all, "ruined?"  Another concept you can't actually prove is a thing.

Meanwhile, it may be time to reconsider the definition of facts.  Because, your claim that Darnold could or would have been better with other coaches, isn't actually a fact.  The only facts are that Darnold is bad.  He was bad in his first year.  He was bad in his second year.  And he was bad in his third year.  Another coach would make him better is an opinion, and it's an unsubstantiated one.  Lastly, the idea that Darnold was always going to be bad has some actual merit in QBASE, which gave him an over 50% bust rate.  He also had the lowest Elite rate of every top QB in 2018.  So, again, when we look at actual data, not Dcat's feelings, there's plenty of support for Darnold not ever being good.

So, again, all available data is on my side.

None of that is data as it pertains to why Darnold got worse after Gase showed up.  Every stat points to it. You ignore the correlation and talk about sh*tty QBs of yesteryear.  Comical argument.  Borders on SAR-like.  I expect better.  

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

We will disagree there, GJ, I believe that some quarterbacks are busts and no development or coaching can change that.  There are more busts in NFL history than legitimate franchise quarterbacks probably by a ratio of 100:1.  Jordan Palmer is an excellent coach and 100 days in his House of Quarterbacks didn't help Sam one bit while the likes of Mahomes, Allen, and Burrow are exploding.

At any given time, there's like 12 people on the planet who can do this well, and grown men are logged on trying to be Nancy Drew as to why Sam Darnold isn't one of them.

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

At any given time, there's like 12 people on the planet who can do this well, and grown men are logged on trying to be Nancy Drew as to why Sam Darnold isn't one of them.

Point he hasn’t and he most likely won’t. Fun while it lasted. I guess, not really. 

[TuscanyTile2]

5 minutes ago, SAR I said:

For fun, take the W's and L's out of it.  Assume that, like almost all experts, the Jets were no better than a 5-11 team this season and it really doesn't matter if we win 5 games or 0.  Work with me here, just take the record out of it.

Now, tell me, what has Adam Gase done since he's been here that hasn't positioned the team for a brighter future?  Here's what I see:

* Maccagnan gone, Douglas an immediate improvement.
* Glat gone, Elhai not in Johnson's ear.
* Bad players on bad contracts gone (Trumaine, Bell, etc.)
* Serviceable older players traded for important future capital (Williamson, McLendon, etc.)
* Malcontents shown the door for a draft haul (Leonard, Jamal, etc.)
* Leaders brought here to help change the culture (Gore, Flacco, etc.)
* Strong draft with what looks like studs in Becton and Mims and potential in Mann, Davis, Perine.
* Darnold given half a season to show improvement, cut bait when it was clear he's a bust.
* Team playing hard every game, giving 100% effort, no one mailing it in.
* Lockerroom sticking together, no backstabbing, no social media, no 'unnamed sources'.

Only 20% of what a head coach does is about playcalling and play design.  That can be solved by a new offensive coordinator which we desperately need.  We don't lose a head coach that has the 80% nailed especially on a franchise that hasn't come close to someone with these HC abilities since 1998.  Gase is the solution.  It's hard for some to see because they are so frustrated with meaningless W's and L's and next gen stats brought to you by AWS.

SAR I
 

* Assume that, like almost all experts, the Jets were no better than a 5-11 team this season

Vegas had the Jets' O/U at 6.5 wins going into the season

 

* Glat gone, Elhai not in Johnson's ear.
* Bad players on bad contracts gone (Trumaine, Bell, etc.)
* Serviceable older players traded for important future capital (Williamson, McLendon, etc.)
* Malcontents shown the door for a draft haul (Leonard, Jamal, etc.)
* Leaders brought here to help change the culture (Gore, Flacco, etc.)
* Strong draft with what looks like studs in Becton and Mims and potential in Mann, Davis, Perine.

You were the one saying that Gase (along with CJ) ran free agency last year.  If so, Bell would be on Gase.  But none of the other things had anything to do with Gase.

 

* Darnold given half a season to show improvement, cut bait when it was clear he's a bust.

If Sam really was the problem (you claim he's not smart enough to make adjustments at the LOS) then that should've been identified prior to this season.  After all, both Gase and Sam were here last year.

 

* Team playing hard every game, giving 100% effort, no one mailing it in.

We looked pretty "meh" against the Dolphins.

* Lockerroom sticking together, no backstabbing, no social media, no 'unnamed sources'.

Alex Lewis? 

 

[ZachEY]

4 minutes ago, Dcat said:

None of that is data as it pertains to why Darnold got worse after Gase showed up.  Every stat points to it. You ignore the correlation and talk about sh*tty QBs of yesteryear.  Comical argument.   I expect better.  

Saying an argument is comical because you can't dispute it is an option, I guess.

As is maintaining the premise that Darnold was better pre-Gase, even though the actual data disputes this too.  He was 30+ is DYAR and DVOA.  So, sure, you can argue anything from a faulty premise, I suppose.  But, it doesn't make you right.

I, too, will always remember that loss to Green Bay fondly though.

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Right, so as a result, the best play he can come up with on 2nd and 10 is running Gore up the middle and producing an O that can't  score when he calls the plays but his OC scored over 50 points when he did. 

Are you also going to tell me he is in on the tank?

I'm going to tell you that there are problems far bigger than Adam Gase's playcalling on this team right now.  

Don't worry though.  He'll surely be fired.  THEN, the Jets (and apparently Darnold) will be good.

Just like it was when we fired Rex, just like it was when we fired Schotty, just like it was when we fired Heimerdinger, just like it was when we fired Herm, just like it was when we fired Hackett.

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I don't need to feel any better about the coaching, as my "narrative" has always been that coaching plays a much smaller role than people here like to pretend.  Bill Belichick came out this year in agreement with my position.

Of all the major sports, a HC in football maters the most BY FAR!  (Baseball matters the least as the GMs basically tell the managers what to do).

The easiest example to look at it how Bill Parcells won 9 games (almost 10) with a Jet team that went 1-15 the season prior.  Another great example is Belichick's 1st Superbowl title in New England, where they beat a heavily-favored Rams' team.

I'd like to see Belichick's quote btw.  

[More Cowbell]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

I'm going to tell you that there are problems far bigger than Adam Gase's playcalling on this team right now.  

Don't worry though.  He'll surely be fired.  THEN, the Jets (and apparently Darnold) will be good.

Darnold will be good, just not on the Jets

[SAR I]

44 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

If Gase is still here next season (which could happen) I’m becoming a Giants fan

You're on the list.

SAR I

[ZachEY]

2 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Darnold will be good, just not on the Jets

It's okay to believe anything you want I suppose.  There's nothing tangible to support this, however.

My belief is that Darnold will start very few NFL games after this season.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Of all the major sports, a HC in football maters the most BY FAR!  (Baseball matters the least as the GMs basically tell the managers what to do).

The easiest example to look at it how Bill Parcells won 9 games (almost 10) with a Jet team that went 1-15 the season prior.  Another great example is Belichick's 1st Superbowl title in New England, where they beat a heavily-favored Rams' team.

I'd like to see Belichick's quote btw.  

I don't have it at the ready, but he basically spoke about how the cupboards are bare now, and what do you want from me.