So Bill Belichick deserved a 2nd NFL head coaching stint alongside of Tom Brady but yet Jim Harbaugh doesn't deserve a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Trevor Lawrence?

[Defense Wins Championships]

Bill Belichick's first 6 years with CLE/NE (combined)

41-55 overall. 

(.427%). 

14 games below .500. 

5/6 losing years. 

1-1 playoff record (.500%). 

0 Conference Championship Games. 

0 SB appearances..

vs. 

Jim Harbaugh's first 4 years with San Francisco. 

44-19-1

(.695%).

25 games above .500. 

0/4 losing seasons. 

5-3 postseason record (.625%). 

3 Conference Championship Games. 

1 SB appearance. 

_____________________________

And Bill Belichick deserved a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Tom Brady after coaching the likes of Mike Tomczak, Bernie Kosar, Todd Philcox, Vinnie Testaverde, Eric Zeier, Matt Rypien and Drew Bledsoe?

But yet Jim Harbaugh doesn't deserve a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Trevor Lawrence after coaching the likes of Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick? 

_____________________________

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

_____________________________

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years prior to Jim Harbaugh's arrival: 

26-38 (.406%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances. 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years alongside of Jim Harbaugh:

44-19-1 (.695%), 3 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 3 NFC Conference Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (a muffed special teams punt away from 2 SB appearances). 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years following Jim Harbaugh's departure:

17-47 (.265%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances (Trent Baalke who wrongly fired Jim as GM; then became FIRED himself after only 2 losing years later). 

_____________________________

 

[Beerfish]

Why do you come up with these ridiculous comparisons that have NOTHING in common.

If you want to justify by comparison find a guy who was in the league, did pretty good then left for college for 7 years did poorly overall and then came back to be a great coach.

[SayNoToDMC]

It's too late for this sh*t. I'm going to sleep

[LAD_Brooklyn]

Is this a campaign to bring the butt fumble back?!

[Mogglez]

I gave you the answer to this in the other thread and you blatantly ignored it.  Now you start a new thread based on a cherry picked 10 paragraph essay that you wrote, full of pictures and GIFs?  Great.

I’ll repost it for you:

This same nonsensical logic was used around here to defend Adam Gase when he was hired. How’d that work out?  BB being bad once doesn’t mean every coach ever deserves a second chance.

Harbaugh finished his final year in the NFL 8-8.  He left his QB + offense an archaic, broken mess, disliked by his players, owner, and front office.  He ran to Michigan, got paid a boatload of cash, never developed a single QB, despite stealing a 5 star recruit in Shea Patterson, never landed big recruits despite his “massive NFL success, and will be leaving the program (when he’s inevitably fired) with an archaic offense, barely, if any, recruits worth writing home about, disliked by the fans/boosters, and his legacy a wreck.  No, he doesn’t really deserve a 5th season as an NFL Head Coach; at least not yet.  Especially not here, when the future of this franchise is on the line.

[Lupz27]

42 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Bill Belichick's first 6 years with CLE/NE (combined)

41-55 overall. 

(.427%). 

14 games below .500. 

5/6 losing years. 

1-1 playoff record (.500%). 

0 Conference Championship Games. 

0 SB appearances..

vs. 

Jim Harbaugh's first 4 years with San Francisco. 

44-19-1

(.695%).

25 games above .500. 

0/4 losing seasons. 

5-3 postseason record (.625%). 

3 Conference Championship Games. 

1 SB appearance. 

_____________________________

And Bill Belichick deserved a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Tom Brady after coaching the likes of Mike Tomczak, Bernie Kosar, Todd Philcox, Vinnie Testaverde, Eric Zeier, Matt Rypien and Drew Bledsoe?

But yet Jim Harbaugh doesn't deserve a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Trevor Lawrence after coaching the likes of Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick? 

_____________________________

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

_____________________________

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years prior to Jim Harbaugh's arrival: 

26-38 (.406%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances. 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years alongside of Jim Harbaugh:

44-19-1 (.695%), 3 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 3 NFC Conference Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (a muffed special teams punt away from 2 SB appearances). 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years following Jim Harbaugh's departure:

17-47 (.265%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances (Trent Baalke who wrongly fired Jim as GM; then became FIRED himself after only 2 losing years later). 

_____________________________

 

 Can we wait and make sure the Jets actually go 0-16 before we jump the Lawrence train, 1 win poof he is gone.

[Lupz27]

35 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Why do you come up with these ridiculous comparisons that have NOTHING in common.

If you want to justify by comparison find a guy who was in the league, did pretty good then left for college for 7 years did poorly overall and then came back to be a great coach.

What like Pete Carol?

[Mogglez]

22 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

What like Pete Carol?

Pete Carroll was a massive success at USC.  In no way would what he accomplished there be considered doing “poorly overall”, like Harbaughs tenure at Michigan, which is what @Beerfish said.

[Defense Wins Championships]

21 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Why do you come up with these ridiculous comparisons that have NOTHING in common.

If you want to justify by comparison find a guy who was in the league, did pretty good then left for college for 7 years did poorly overall and then came back to be a great coach.

Nope. Because my agenda is different than yours. 

I know what type of NFL winner Jim Harbaugh truly is and I know exactly what he'll do with a Trevor Lawrence type of QB talent; he'll win with him. 

I couldn't care less about his "college career" when it's based off of program recruiting ability instead of head coaching ability (throughout NFL drafts). 

I'm not going to judge him for MICHIGAN when their last National Championship was back in 1997 (23 years ago) and before that? lol 1948 (72 years ago; before the man was even born yet). 

He only went to Michigan because he's an alumni and wanted to live out his dream of coaching for his former school; and only a clueless pundit would hold that against him and judge him based off of his coaching loyalty. 

____________________

Michigan 6 years prior to his arrival =

42-33 (.560%). 

9 games above .500. 

Michigan 6 years after his arrival =

49-22 (.690%). 

27 games above .500. 

_____________________

But yeah. Right. Let's ignore the facts all because he's coaching an NCAA program that's won a whopping 2 National Championships dating back to 1948 of 72 years ago. Good riddance. 

_____________________

And let's not let these NFL fact's get in the way of your agenda either...

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

What? No comment? You wish to ignore the facts? 

________________________

And what about these NFL facts below? 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years prior to Jim Harbaugh's arrival: 

26-38 (.406%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances. 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years alongside of Jim Harbaugh:

44-19-1 (.695%), 3 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 3 NFC Conference Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (a muffed special teams punt away from 2 SB appearances). 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years following Jim Harbaugh's departure:

17-47 (.265%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances (Trent Baalke who wrongly fired Jim as GM; then became FIRED himself after only 2 losing years later).

What, you're just going to ignore them too while talking about "college"?

[Mogglez]

I completely missed the “deserved a second chance with Tom Brady” portion of this post.

Are you kidding me?  You can’t be a serious with this.

Why in the WORLD, would ANYONE, fire a Head Coach that WON a Super Bowl after being forced to make the switch to A 6th ROUND QB????? 

Brady wasn’t some sort of super prospect like Lawrence.  There was no hype like this.  He wasn’t even that fantastic in his first year as a starter, and Bill still made it to (and won) the Super Bowl with him.  Are you going to sit here with a straight face and say that Bill should have been fired, or even questioned, after that run?  What an absolutely ridiculous argument.

[Defense Wins Championships]

34 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

This same nonsensical logic was used around here to defend Adam Gase when he was hired. How’d that work out?  BB being bad once doesn’t mean every coach ever deserves a second chance.

Harbaugh finished his final year in the NFL 8-8.  He left his QB + offense an archaic, broken mess, disliked by his players, owner, and front office.  He ran to Michigan, got paid a boatload of cash, never developed a single QB, despite stealing a 5 star recruit in Shea Patterson, never landed big recruits, and will be leaving the program (when he’s inevitably fired) with an archaic offense, barely, if any, recruits worth writing home about, disliked by the fans/boosters, and his legacy a wreck.  No, he doesn’t really deserve a 5th season as an NFL Head Coach; at least not yet.  Especially not here, when the future of this franchise is on the line.

First and foremost, stop lying. 

He didn't "leave" his 49ers team; he was fired by a crap GM who ended up getting fired only two years after firing Jim (however, I wouldn't expect you to know that). 

And who cares if his last season was 8-8 lol do you realize how desperate you sound to me right now?

He turned a 7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10 team/franchise into an immediate...

13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 WINNER consisting of a 36-11-1 record (.750%) along with 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been 2 if not for a fumbled muffed punt) and you expect him to say sorry for a final 8-8 season? 

I'll continue to quote these numbers until you're blue in the face... Because you can't counter them (you don't know how to)....

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years prior to Jim Harbaugh's arrival: 

26-38 (.406%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances. 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years alongside of Jim Harbaugh:

44-19-1 (.695%), 3 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 3 NFC Conference Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (a muffed special teams punt away from 2 SB appearances). 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years following Jim Harbaugh's departure:

17-47 (.265%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances (Trent Baalke who wrongly fired Jim as GM; then became FIRED himself after only 2 losing years later). 

And these too...

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

And please never mention an 0-11 and current 30-45 (.400%) Adam Gase loser to me again when in comparison to a winning Jim Harbaugh (it doesn't make you out to appear as knowledgeable). 

Jim Harbaugh: 14 years = 122-62-1 (.659%)

vs. 

Adam Gase: 5 years = 30-45 (.400%). 

Jim Harbaugh is a career winner (who will coach again). 

Adam Gase is a career loser (who will never coach again after 0-16). 

So ok. You're right. The worst NFL season Jim had was 8-8. The worst season Gase will have is 0-16 (worse than Kotitie). 

You win? ??‍♂️?

[Patriot Killa]

24 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Nope. Because my agenda is different than yours. 

I know what type of NFL winner Jim Harbaugh truly is and I know exactly what he'll do with a Trevor Lawrence type of QB talent; he'll win with him. 

 

You don’t know any of this dude lmfao.

[Defense Wins Championships]

Only a critic and a blind pundit harps all over a final 8-8 (.500%) season but yet ignores all of this below...

He turned a 7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10 team/franchise into an immediate...

13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 WINNER

Consisting of a 36-11-1 record (.750%) along with 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been 2 if not for a fumbled muffed punt) 

But then lives off an 8-8 final season as their only ammo against him as an NFL coach? 

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

4 minutes ago, Patriot Killa said:

You don’t know any of this dude lmfao.

Well I know enough to know that he did this...

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

And I know enough to know that he did this, too...

He turned a 7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10 team/franchise into an immediate...

13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 WINNER

Consisting of a 36-11-1 record (.750%) along with 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been 2 if not for a fumbled muffed punt) throughout his first 3 seasons. 

And his 8-8 worst NFL season ever sure beats 0-16...

This much, I do know (sorry if you don't)?

[New York Mick]

He’s a better option than Gase

[Mogglez]

58 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

First and foremost, stop lying. 

He didn't leave his 49ers team; he was fired by a crap GM who ended up getting fired only two years after firing Jim. 

And who cares if his last season was 8-8 lol do you realize how weird and desperate you sound to me right now?

He turned a 7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10 team/franchise into an immediate 13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 WINNER consisting of a 36-11-1 record (.750%) along with 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been 2 if not for a fumbled muffed punt) and you expect him to say sorry for a final 8-8 season? 

I'll continue to quote these numbers until you're blue in the face...

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years prior to Jim Harbaugh's arrival: 

26-38 (.406%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances. 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years alongside of Jim Harbaugh:

44-19-1 (.695%), 3 winning seasons, 3 playoff appearances, 3 NFC Conference Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (a muffed special teams punt away from 2 SB appearances). 

vs. 

San Francisco 49ers throughout 4 years following Jim Harbaugh's departure:

17-47 (.265%), 0 winning seasons, 0 playoff appearances, 0 NFC Conference Championship Games and 0 SB appearances (Trent Baalke who wrongly fired Jim as GM; then became FIRED himself after only 2 losing years later). 

And these too...

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

And please never mention an 0-11 and current 30-45 (.400%) Adam Gase loser  to me again when in comparison to a winning Jim Harbaugh. 

Jim Harbaugh: 14 years = 122-62-1 (.659%)

vs. 

Adam Gase: 5 years = 30-45 (.400%). 

Jim Harbaugh is a career winner (who will coach again). 

Adam Gase is a career loser (who will never coach again after 0-16). 

First and foremost, I’m not lying.  He wasn’t fired.  They “mutually agreed to part ways” because he wanted more control over the roster and ownership wouldn’t neuter or fire Baalke and give it to him.

Second, I don’t care one iota about how I sound to you, and I care even less about your cherry picked, elementary school presentation on Harbaugh’s winning percentage, so I won’t be addressing it at all.  They aren’t relevant if you’re going to ignore the downward trend in 2014.  Rex Ryan had a phenomenal winning percentage after a few years in the NFL too.  History shows us that his 8-8 season, the first year where it looked like the league had figured him out, should have been a massive red flag.  Similarly, Harbaugh’s last year in San Francisco showed that the league had figured him and his coaching style out as well.  His QB was regressing. His offense was stagnant, archaic, unimaginative, ultimately finishing 30th in the league in yards per game, and 25th in scoring.  He was getting out coached, losing big important games, and getting beat by lesser opponents including the 5-11 Chicago Bears, 6-10 St. Louis Rams, 3-13 Oakland Raiders.  They missed the playoffs and he ran away from the NFL.  His stretch in college has been no different.  His offenses are boring, unimaginative, and arachic.  He can’t recruit, despite his resumé.  He can’t develop a halfway decent QB, even when given a 5 star recruit.  He can’t win big games.  He is beaten by lesser opponents (0-5 Penn State) and out-coached by the likes of James Franklin.  Now he’s looking to run away from the NCAA.

You can post the raw numbers all you want.  They don’t cover up the flaws of his final year.  They don’t cover up the regression.  They don’t cover up the fact that he was beaten and out-coached by lesser opponents/coaches, especially in big games that made the difference between them making the playoffs or not.  They don’t cover up that he was disliked by everyone, from players to owner.  They don’t erase his failures at Michigan, many of which were the same failures he had in the NFL (archaic offense, choke artist, playing down to opponents).  They just make you look like you’re desperately holding on to a tissue thin argument.

[Defense Wins Championships]

40 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Pete Carroll was a massive success at USC.  In no way would what he accomplished there be considered doing “poorly overall”, like Harbaughs tenure at Michigan, which is what @Beerfish said.

What?

You're just going to ignore his 46-48 losing NFL career throughout his first 6 NFL seasons of .489% losing football and only remember the rest? lol. 

PS: I want Jim Harbaugh as my NFL head coach, not "college" what part can't you comprehend? 

Looks like your boy Pete lost a SB too (as did Jim). 

Still want to act like your boy Pete is "undefeated"? 

PS: Pete didn't win his first NFL SB until his 8th season. 

PS: Andy Reid didn't win his first SB until his 21st season. 

PS: Bill Belichick didn't win his first SB untill his 7th season. 

So after 4 years with the NFL's 5th highest Head Coaching winning percentage of All-Time @ .695% consisting of 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been two SB appearances if not for a muffed fumble) throughout 4 years you're damn right he deserves a 2nd NFL stint (just like Bill and Pete lol). 

[Defense Wins Championships]

3 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

He can’t develop a halfway decent QB, even when given a 5 star recruit.  

He can't? 

Last time I checked he developed a 4 star recruit in Andrew Luck and developed him as a Freshman/Sophomore into the highest rated QB prospect to come out since dating back to Elway/Manning & went 12-1 @ Stanford during Luck's Sophomore season. 

And you say he can't develop a QB?

Did you not see him develop a former #1 overall bust and career loser in Alex Smith into an immediate winner? 

Did you not see Kaep become an immediate losing QB after him? 

He can't develop a QB?

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

Completely says otherwise. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

And why do Jet fans seem to believe Jim even recruited Shea Patterson as a 5 star recruit and developed him out of High School? lol. 

Because he didn't. 

Shea Patterson was a transfer to Michigan after spending two full years with Ole Miss and had a losing record of 4-6 during his two years @ Ole Miss and wasn't even good enough to be considered a full time starter before being forced to transfer as a former 5 star recruit BUST (he was no Trevor Lawrence to say the least). 

But I wouldn't expect Jim (genius) critics to know any better. 

And for anyone to claim Jim ruined the career of a two year transfer (during his only two season's with Shea Patterson; just goes to show how clueless they really are (Shea Patterson played good under Jim). 

Shea Patterson (under Jim): 19-7 (.730%)

424/706 (60.1%), 5,761 passing yards, 45 passing TD's/15 INT's along with 7 rushing TD's and a QB Rating of 144.2. 

But yea. Right. Leave it up to genius fans to tell us Jet fans how once upon a time Jim "ruined" a 5 star "recruit" despite the kid being a two year 4-6 overall Ole Miss transfer...

 

[Mogglez]

33 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

What?

You're just going to ignore his 46-48 losing NFL career throughout his first 6 NFL seasons of .489% losing football and only remember the rest? lol. 

PS: I want Jim Harbaugh as my NFL head coach, not "college" what part can't you comprehend? 

Looks like your boy Pete lost a SB too (as did Jim). 

Still want to act like your boy Pete is "undefeated"? 

PS: Pete didn't win his first NFL SB until his 8th season. 

PS: Andy Reid didn't win his first SB until his 21st season. 

PS: Bill Belichick didn't win his first SB untill his 7th season. 

So after 4 years with the NFL's 5th highest Head Coaching winning percentage of All-Time @ .695% consisting of 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been two SB appearances if not for a muffed fumble) throughout 4 years you're damn right he deserves a 2nd NFL stint (just like Bill and Pete lol). 

Do you know how to read?

We were discussing college success in relation to a Carroll/Harbaugh comparison.  Carroll was up and down in his first few stints in the NFL, went to college, dominated the NCAA, came back to the NFL, and carried that success over to the NFL.

My “boy” Pete, dominated his first Super Bowl appearance, despite being a massive underdog.  Harbaugh choked against a lesser opponent.  My “boy” Pete, learned from his mistakes, dominated in college, came back to the NFL a completely new coach, improved that team, became one of the best Head Coaches this league has seen in recent memory.  He, unlike Harbaugh, earned another chance to be in the NFL.  

You have yet to make an argument why a coach, who was already on the downswing in the NFL, should automatically get a second chance in the NFL, despite only getting worse in the NCAA, a place his NFL success should help him greatly.  You just keep saying you don’t care about college.  That’s not how any of this works.  He doesn’t get to erase his entire college resumé when trying to make an NFL comeback.  Especially when his last year in the NFL resembles his college stint.

[Mogglez]

1 hour ago, Mogglez said:

I completely missed the “deserved a second chance with Tom Brady” portion of this post.

Are you kidding me?  You can’t be a serious with this.

Why in the WORLD, would ANYONE, fire a Head Coach that WON a Super Bowl after being forced to make the switch to A 6th ROUND QB????? 

Brady wasn’t some sort of super prospect like Lawrence.  There was no hype like this.  He wasn’t even that fantastic in his first year as a starter, and Bill still made it to (and won) the Super Bowl with him.  Are you going to sit here with a straight face and say that Bill should have been fired, or even questioned, after that run?  What an absolutely ridiculous argument.

Still waiting on a reply to this absolutely incredible leap of logic @Defense Wins Championships.  Especially since you want to go around sarcastically calling people “geniuses”.

[Mogglez]

4 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

And why do Jet fans seem to believe Jim even recruited Shea Patterson as a 5 star recruit and developed him out of High School? lol. 

Because he didn't. 

Shea Patterson was a transfer to Michigan after spending two full years with Ole Miss and had a losing record of 4-6 during his two years @ Ole Miss and wasn't even good enough to be considered a full time starter before being forced to transfer as a former 5 star recruit BUST. 

But I wouldn't expect Jim (genius) critics to know any better. 

And for anyone to claim Jim ruined the career of a two year transfer (during his only two season's with Shea Patterson; just goes to show how clueless they really are (Shea Patterson played good under Jim). 

Shea Patterson (under Jim): 19-7 (.730%)

424/706 (60.1%), 5,761 passing yards, 45 passing TD's/15 INT's along with 7 rushing TD's and a QB Rating of 144.2. 

But yea. Right. Leave it up to genius fans to tell us Jet fans how once upon a time Jim "ruined" a 5 star "recruit" despite the kid being a two year 4-6 overall Ole Miss transfer...

So your argument for Jim Harbaugh is that he chose to chase Shea Patterson, a guy who, to you, wasn’t any good to begin with.  That’s who should be leading the charge.  A guy who handpicks bad players.

Got it.

[Mogglez]

39 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

He can't? 

Last time I checked he developed a 4 star recruit in Andrew Luck and developed him as a Freshman/Sophomore into the highest rated QB prospect to come out since dating back to Elway/Manning & went 12-1 @ Stanford during Luck's Sophomore season. 

And you say he can't develop a QB?

Did you not see him develop a former #1 overall bust and career loser in Alex Smith into an immediate winner? 

Did you not see Kaep become an immediate losing QB after him? 

He can't develop a QB?

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

Completely says otherwise. 

Stop pretending like Andrew Luck was a trash recruit.  He was the No. 3 ranked QB in the nation.  He didn’t turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad over there.

Same with Alex Smith.  Yes the consensus was that he was a bust at that point, but he was still a #1 overall pick that many felt the organization failed with his never ending carousel of offensive coordinators.  His stints in Kansas City and Washington say that Alex, likely, just needed some stability in his career, because the talent was already there.  If Harbaugh was as great as you make him sound, Alex would have fallen back to earth the second he left.

Kaepernick was Harbaughs only real “developmental” project and he, ultimately, failed.  Kaepernick never learned how to consistently go through his progressions, read a defense, or identify complex blitz packages, something that would fall on Jim’s shoulders.  He just relied on his dual threat abilities and flamed out when defenses figured out how to contain those abilities.

Stop posting W/L records when discussing QB development.  Mark Sanchez went 9-7, 11-5, with 4 playoff victories and 2 AFC Championship Game appearances under Rex Ryan.  That doesn’t mean Sanchez was a good QB, or that Rex was good at developing QBs.  It just means that the Jets were a good team.  2011-2014 was more telling for both of those guys.

[Defense Wins Championships]

29 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

Do you know how to read?

We were discussing college success in relation to a Carroll/Harbaugh comparison.

I couldn't care less about 'college" when I want Jim as my NFL coach. 

Carroll was up and and down in his first few stints in the NFL,

He was a career loser during his first couple of NFL stints. 

went to college, dominated the NCAA,

You mean he RAN to USC? lol (two can play this game). 

came back to the NFL, and carried that success over to the NFL.

No he didn't. His first two years in Seattle were two 7-9 losing seasons (14-18) but yet you harp all over Jim's final 8-8 season? Hypocritical hypocrite, much? lol

My “boy” Pete, dominated his first Super Bowl appearance, despite being a massive underdog. Harbaugh choked against a lesser opponent.

It took him 8 NFL seasons before he won his 1st and only SB before choking away the 2nd with the worst play call in NFL history; congrats? 

My “boy” Pete, learned from his mistakes, dominated in college, came back to the NFL a completely new coach, improved that team, became one of the best Head Coaches this league has seen in recent memory. 

Came into the NFL a completely new coach? How? By going 7-9 and 7-9 with two losing seasons before lucking into Russell Wilson? 

One of the best coaches in recent memory? Dude he's been in the league for 15 years with 1 SB lol...

He, unlike Harbaugh, earned another chance to be in the NFL.  

Tell that to Marshawm Lynch. 

You have yet to make an argument why a coach, who was already on the downswing in the NFL, should automatically get a second chance in the NFL, despite only getting worse in the NCAA, a place his NFL success should help him greatly.  You just keep saying you don’t care about college.  That’s not how any of this works.  He doesn’t get to erase his entire college resumé when trying to make an NFL comeback.  Especially when his last year in the NFL resembles his college stint.

Here's my case...

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

He turned a 7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10 team/franchise into an immediate 13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 WINNER consisting of a 36-11-1 record (.750%) along with 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been 2 if not for a fumbled muffed punt) and you expect him to say sorry for a final 8-8 season? 

Where was Pete's sorry for his back to back losing 7-9 seasons upon his NFL return; before an All-Time great Russell Wilson saved his NFL losing career?

You want to talk about Jim's 8-8 season but I can't make fun of Pete's losing NFL years of 6-10, 8-8 (how funny), 7-9 and 7-9? 

Don't be a hypocrite man it makes talking sports with you no fun...

[Defense Wins Championships]

18 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

So your argument for Jim Harbaugh is that he chose to chase Shea Patterson, a guy who, to you, wasn’t any good to begin with.  That’s who should be leading the charge.  A guy who handpicks bad players.

Got it.

Nope it's to show you that A.) He never recruited him out of HS (as you pretend he did). B.) He was a two year transfer and C.) He turned him into a Michigan winner (within only two seasons of "developing"). 

And stop acting like he ran to Alabama or Ohio State etc when he went back home to coach a program who's won two National Championships dating back to 72 years ago of 1948 so for you to sit here and pretend he's coaching for a powerful Football program just goes to show me you know zero about college Football and how recruiting works because who goes to Michigan for Vacation? lol. 

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Here's my case...

AlexSmith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (without Jim Harbaugh) =

19-40 (.322%). 

21 games below .500. 

vs. 

Alex Smith/Colin Kaepernick's record in San Francisco (with Jim Harbaugh) =

44-19-1 (.695%). 

25 games above .500. 

He turned a 7-9, 2-14, 4-12, 7-9, 5-11, 7-9, 8-8 and 6-10 team/franchise into an immediate 13-3, 11-4-1 and 12-4 WINNER consisting of a 36-11-1 record (.750%) along with 3 NFC Championship Games and 1 SB appearance (would've been 2 if not for a fumbled muffed punt) and you expect him to say sorry for a final 8-8 season? 

Where was Pete's sorry for his back to back losing 7-9 seasons upon his NFL return; before an All-Time great Russell Wilson saved his NFL losing career?

You want to talk about Jim's 8-8 season but I can't make fun of Pete's losing NFL years of 6-10, 8-8 (how funny), 7-9 and 7-9? 

Don't be a hypocrite man it makes talking sports with you no fun...

2nd time I’m posting this:

Stop posting W/L records when discussing QB development.  Mark Sanchez went 9-7, 11-5, with 4 playoff victories and 2 AFC Championship Game appearances under Rex Ryan.  That doesn’t mean Sanchez was a good QB, or that Rex was good at developing QBs.  It just means that the Jets were a good team.  2011-2014 was more telling for both of those guys.

Im not being a hypocrite.  In his first year back in the NFL, Pete went 7-9 and won a playoff game with the corpse of Matt Hasslebeck against an 11-5 Saints team.  He exceeded expectations.  In 2011 he matched that record with Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst making starts, again exceeding expectations.  He got Russell Wilson and his hand picked coaching staff developed him into a top 3 QB in the league.  Context matters.  You keep ignoring context.  THAT makes talking football not fun.

[Mogglez]

21 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Nope it's to show you that A.) He never recruited him out of HS (as you pretend he did). B.) He was a two year transfer and C.) He turned him into a Michigan winner (within only two seasons of "developing"). 

And stop acting like he ran to Alabama or Ohio State etc when he went back home to coach a program who's won two National Championships dating back to 72 years ago of 1948 so for you to sit here and pretend he's coaching for a powerful Football program just goes to show me you know zero about college Football and how recruiting works because who goes to Michigan for Vacation? lol. 

I have said from the very moment I mentioned Patterson, that Harbaugh took him from Ole Miss.  Stop making things up to suit your arguments.

Michigan had more National Championships than Clemson, as well as a MUCH richer history.  That didn’t stop Dabo from making a humongous difference when he took over for Tommy Bowden, eventually turning them into the powerhouse they are today.  He was a fantastic recruiter despite only being a positional coach previously.  The fact that you are arguing that Harbaugh’s couldn’t recruit simply because of location and not because he just sucks at recruiting shows me that YOU know zero about college football and how recruiting works.  The point of playing college ball for many of these players is to, eventually, get into the NFL.  An NFL coach with a resumé like Harbaugh’s, that also includes NCAA experience and success, should have no problem landing recruits and winning.  No excuses.  Zero.  

[Defense Wins Championships]

1 minute ago, Mogglez said:

2nd time I’m posting this:

Stop posting W/L records when discussing QB development.  Mark Sanchez went 9-7, 11-5, with 4 playoff victories and 2 AFC Championship Game appearances under Rex Ryan.  That doesn’t mean Sanchez was a good QB, or that Rex was good at developing QBs.  It just means that the Jets were a good team.  2011-2014 was more telling for both of those guys.

Im not being a hypocrite.  In his first year back in the NFL, Pete went 7-9 and won a playoff game with the corpse of Matt Hasslebeck against an 11-5 Saints team.  He exceeded expectations.  In 2011 he matched that record with Tarvaris Jackson and Charlie Whitehurst making starts, again exceeding expectations.  He got Russell Wilson and his hand picked coaching staff developed him into a top 3 QB in the league.  Context matters.  You keep ignoring context.  THAT makes talking football not fun.

You don't want win loss records? Fine. I can always post statistical examples. 

Alex Smith before Jim Harbaugh: 

54 games: 864/1,514 (57.1%), 9,399 yards (6.2 yards per pass attempt), 51 TDs/53 INTs (-0.96 TD to INT Ratio), QB Rating of 72.1 (lol). And oh yeah; 19-31 overall (.380%). 

Alex Smith with Jim Harbaugh: 

26 games: 426/663 (64.3%), 4,881 yards (7.4 yards per pass attempt), 30 TDs/10 INT's (+3.0 TD to INT Ratio), QB Rating of 95.1 (bang). And oh yeah. 19-5-1 overall (.760%). 

You want me to stop talking about QB records? Why? Because as if Alex becoming a better QB under Jim didn't result in MORE WINS? Doesn't fit your agenda?

Oh well. But those Alex QB improvement STATS under Jim fits mine perfectly fine. 

And Andy Reid owes Jim a thnx you. A thnx you for developing him a once #1 overall QB bust into an immediate winner (thnx, Jim). 

PS: It took Andy 21 years to win his first SB and he was never able to win one with Alex Smith... either. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

20 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

 Michigan had more National Championships than Clemson, as well as a MUCH richer history.  

You mean Championships before Jim Harbaugh was even ever born in 1963?

Are you referring to the Championships back in 1901, 1902, 1903, 1904, 1918, 1923, 1932, 1933, 1947 & 1948? Lol. 

That's your "rich history"? 

Hey Mogglez, how many times have YOU seen Michigan win it all, since you know oh so much about their "rich history"?

Because over the past 71 years they've won a whopping 1 National Title (1997). 

Football was much different during Michigan's "glory days" ??‍♂️?

PS: Dabo didn't win his first Clemson championship until his 8th year @ Clemson (compared to Jim who hasn't even been with Michigan for 8 years).... Too funny man, too funny. That "humongous difference" didn't result in a Championship until 8 years later. 

[Mogglez]

20 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

You mean Championships before Jim Harbaugh was even ever born in 1963?

Are you referring to the Championships back in 1901, 1902, 1903, 1904, 1918, 1923, 1932, 1933, 1947 & 1948? Lol. 

That's your "rich history"? 

Hey Mogglez, how many times have YOU seen Michigan win it all, since you know oh so much about their "rich history"?

Because over the past 71 years they've won a whopping 1 National Title (1997). 

Football was much different during Michigan's "glory days" ??‍♂️?

PS: Dabo didn't win his first Clemson championship until his 8th year @ Clemson (compared to Jim who hasn't even been with Michigan for 8 years).... Too funny man, too funny. That "humongous difference" didn't result in a Championship until 8 years later. 

Michigan is a more historic program than Clemson.  This isn’t up for debate.

Also, Dabo got to his 8th season because he won and his recruiting classes were getting better and better.  He, unlike Harbaugh, exceeded expectations.  Harbaugh won’t make it to year 7 and will remembered for being an overpaid disappointment.

[Mogglez]

39 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

You don't want win loss records? Fine. I can always post statistical examples. 

Alex Smith before Jim Harbaugh: 

54 games: 864/1,514 (57.1%), 9,399 yards (6.2 yards per pass attempt), 51 TDs/53 INTs (-0.96 TD to INT Ratio), QB Rating of 72.1 (lol). And oh yeah; 19-31 overall (.380%). 

Alex Smith with Jim Harbaugh: 

26 games: 426/663 (64.3%), 4,881 yards (7.4 yards per pass attempt), 30 TDs/10 INT's (+3.0 TD to INT Ratio), QB Rating of 95.1 (bang). And oh yeah. 19-5-1 overall (.760%). 

You want me to stop talking about QB records? Why? Because as if Alex becoming a better QB under Jim didn't result in MORE WINS? Doesn't fit your agenda?

Oh well. But those Alex QB improvement STATS under Jim fits mine perfectly fine. 

And Andy Reid owes Jim a thnx you. A thnx you for developing him a once #1 overall QB bust into an immediate winner (thnx, Jim). 

PS: It took Andy 21 years to win his first SB and he was never able to win one with Alex Smith... either. 

First off, Andy Reid made Alex Smith better than Jim ever did.  Not surprisingly, you only cherry pick the stats you want and don’t include the numbers after Alex Smith left Jim, because that destroys your argument that Harbaugh is some sort of QB whisperer.  Again.  If Alex Smith was nothing more than a product of Harbaugh, he would not have been good in KC or Washington, under the tutelage of Andy Reid and Jay Gruden.  I already said it in another post:  Alex Smith was always talented.  He just needed stability.  Kaepernick is where you should look, but again, you’re ignoring that because it ruins your argument.

Lastly, I also explained why you should stop posting W/L records but you conveniently ignored the rest of that post too because, as I’ve said multiple times, that’s exactly what you do when people destroy your Teflon-thin talking points.  You ignore them.  Every.  Single.  Time.  Speaking of which, I am still waiting on a reply to this rebuttal to the “deserved a second chance with Tom Brady” portion of your original post: 

Stop ignoring it.  Address it.  It’s your basis for this entire thread.

[Defense Wins Championships]

9 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

First off, Andy Reid made Alex Smith better than Jim ever did.  

No he didn't. More lies from you? Alex had a better winning percentage under Jim than Andy and under Jim/Andy he had a damn near identical completion percentage and QB Rating so the whole "Reid made Alex Smith better than Jim ever did" is just another lie. 

PS: Reid didn't "make" Alex anything ala it was JIM who MADE Alex into an immediate winner from a former career losing bust and it was JIM who developed Alex for Andy (and not the other way around lol). 

Secondly, I already said it in the post you quoted:  Alex Smith was always talented.  He just needed stability.

Not before Jim he wasn't, at least not in the NFL he wasn't; all of his numbers SKY ROCKETED under Jim (immediately, too). 

Lastly, I also explained why you should stop posting W/L records but you conveniently ignored the rest of that post because that’s what you do when people destroy your Teflon-thin talking points.  You ignore them.  Every.  Single.  Time.  Speaking of which, I am still waiting on a reply to this rebuttal to your “deserved a second chance with Tom Brady” point: 

Stop ignoring it.  Address it.  It’s your basis for this entire thread.

I never mentioned anything about Bill deservingly getting fired, what are you talking about? Another lie of yours?

I simply made a point that if Bill deserved a 2nd NFL chance alongside of Tom Brady during his 2nd NFL stint; well then Jim is more deserving of a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Lawrence ala...

________________________

Bill Belichick's first 6 years with CLE/NE (combined)

41-55 overall. 

(.427%). 

14 games below .500. 

5/6 losing years. 

1-1 playoff record (.500%). 

0 Conference Championship Games. 

0 SB appearances..

vs. 

Jim Harbaugh's first 4 years with San Francisco. 

44-19-1

(.695%).

25 games above .500. 

0/4 losing seasons. 

5-3 postseason record (.625%). 

3 Conference Championship Games. 

1 SB appearance. 

_____________________________

PS: I'll enjoy Jim as our next head coach alongside of Trevor Lawrence and you? Well, you'll just have to DEAL WITH IT...

[Mogglez]

19 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I never mentioned anything about Bill deservingly getting fired, what are you talking about? Another lie of yours?

It was a hypothetical question to your absolutely ridiculous point.  You really need to read what is posted before you respond.  It makes conversation with you hard.

I simply made a point that if Bill deserved a 2nd NFL chance alongside of Tom Brady during his 2nd NFL stint; well then Jim is more deserving of a 2nd NFL stint alongside of Lawrence ala...

I can’t believe you need this spelled out for you:  Bill got his “2nd chance with Brady” because Bill won a friggin Super Bowl with a 2nd year, 6th round QB, that he was forced into starting.  How you equate that to going 8-8 in your last NFL season and bombing out in the NCAA is an astronomical leap in logic.

_____________________________
 

removed this nonsense.

_____________________________

PS: I'll enjoy Jim as our next head coach alongside of Trevor Lawrence and you? Well, you'll just have to DEAL WITH IT...

Regarding Alex Smith:

Winning percentages are nonsense for the millionth time.  I already explained why.  You ignoring it doesn’t change that, so stop posting them because I’m not going to address it anymore than I already have.

Alex Smith’s numbers improved across the board under Reid, and he even threw for 4,000 yards in a, statistically, career year (2017).  It’s reality, not a lie DWC. The statistics won’t change, no matter how many times that you tell yourself that it is a “lie”.

Finally, if Jim is our next Head Coach, I will deal with it, no matter how badly I think it will end.  You?  You have made it abundantly clear that you will post a 12 page essay if we DON’T hire him.

[Defense Wins Championships]

4 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If Jim is our next Head Coach, I will deal with it, no matter how badly I think it will end.  You?  You have made it abundantly clear that you will post a 12 page essay if we DON’T hire him.

Bill Belichick's first 6 years with CLE/NE (combined)

41-55 overall. 

(.427%). 

14 games below .500. 

5/6 losing years. 

1-1 playoff record (.500%). 

0 Conference Championship Games. 

0 SB appearances..

vs. 

Jim Harbaugh's first 4 years with San Francisco. 

44-19-1

(.695%).

25 games above .500. 

0/4 losing seasons. 

5-3 postseason record (.625%). 

3 Conference Championship Games. 

1 SB appearance. 

[Mogglez]

24 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Bill Belichick's first 6 years with CLE/NE (combined)

41-55 overall. 

(.427%). 

14 games below .500. 

5/6 losing years. 

1-1 playoff record (.500%). 

0 Conference Championship Games. 

0 SB appearances..

vs. 

Jim Harbaugh's first 4 years with San Francisco. 

44-19-1

(.695%).

25 games above .500. 

0/4 losing seasons. 

5-3 postseason record (.625%). 

3 Conference Championship Games. 

1 SB appearance. 

You can keep screaming into the void all you want.

I’ve already wasted enough time dismantling this ridiculous comparison.