Smizzy Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Can anybody make a case for or against AJ Hawk @ 4 that doesn't involve the name "Andy Katzenmoyer" ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CluJet Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Can anybody make a case for or against AJ Hawk @ 4 that doesn't involve the name "Andy Katzenmoyer" ?? For: He is an absolute monster on and off the field. Physical specimen/great player who plays at a fast pace (Oh, and the sub 4.5 40 at 240 lbs. is pretty convincing as well) Against: I am afraid his 3rd week in the NFL will include testing positive for steroid use. No idea why, but I just feel like he is a major juicehead behind the scenes. (EDIT: It's not like I am convinced he does juice, but he just seems like the type that would, especially with his speed.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Mac Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 My RU buds were hanging in this honky tonk music pub off main st in Scottsdale. OSU was in town for the Fiesta Bowl several days beyond our game. AJ came in and everyone was like, "go Buckeyes, yada yada." He just said, "you guys root for Rutgers, screw you," and walked out front and just stood there for a while glowering at nothing in particular. From all reports, he's genuinely mean. Lucky for him, or me, I missed him by a few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 My RU buds were hanging in this honky tonk music pub off main st in Scottsdale. OSU was in town for the Fiesta Bowl several days beyond our game. AJ came in and everyone was like, "go Buckeyes, yada yada." He just said, "you guys root for Rutgers, screw you," and walked out front and just stood there for a while glowering at nothing in particular. From all reports, he's genuinely mean. Lucky for him, or me, I missed him by a few hours. I like the attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharrow Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Can anybody make a case for or against AJ Hawk @ 4 that doesn't involve the name "Andy Katzenmoyer" ?? I don't know... if we draft him will he go with the long hair look or short hair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Katzenmoyer was an absolute stud as a freshman for Ohio State in 1996, then fell off the map the next 2 seasons. He barely sneaked into the first round in 1999 mostly by reputation and physical skills (40 time, ect).... A.J is an absolute star, technically sound, ultra productive and a good workout player. And, unlike Katzenmoyer, he got better each season at OSU. Also, let's not forget, Katzenmoyer is mostly regarded as a bust due to a major career ending neck injury....Andy actually had 4 sacks (real good for a inside linebacker) and a huge 57 yard interception return for a TD as a rookie... He looked like anything but a bust for the Patriots, until he was forced to retire at 24...... That said, A.J's much better and barring injury, will even exceed what Katz did as a rookie. * Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Katzenmoyer was an absolute stud as a freshman for Ohio State in 1996, then fell off the map the next 2 seasons. He barely sneaked into the first round in 1999 mostly by reputation and physical skills (40 time, ect).... A.J is an absolute star, technically sound, ultra productive and a good workout player. And, unlike Katzenmoyer, he got better each season at OSU. Also, let's not forget, Katzenmoyer is mostly regarded as a bust due to a major career ending neck injury....Andy actually had 4 sacks (real good for a inside linebacker) and a huge 57 yard interception return for a TD as a rookie... He looked like anything but a bust for the Patriots, until he forced to retire at 24...... That said, A.J's much better and barring injury, while even exceed what Katz did as a rookie. How would you feel if the Jets took him @4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R44 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I don't see why not, other than he's very similar to Vilma. But if the Jets are going to a 3-4, another top linebacker will be needed....In the Patriots system, you want tough and fiesty LB's with talent, not just the stop-watch fast players. Personally, I believe Culter and Leinart will go after Bush, so it will be the OT from Virginia for the Jets....His Long Island ties will seal deal, as the Jets want a player that will stick around the area in the off-season too. Word in NFL circles is the Raiders and 49ers both want A.J and yesterdays coin flip means he's a 49er. I've read quotes from a zillion scouts on A.J and the only "flaw" they can find is he's fairly small. So, again, he's similar to VIlma, except faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnys025 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I wouldnt mind it at all. With the 3-4 system that mangini will most likley implement, that wouldnt be such a bad pick. We would have one HECK of a group of lb's thats for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CluJet Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I wouldnt mind it at all. With the 3-4 system that mangini will most likley implement, that wouldnt be such a bad pick. We would have one HECK of a group of lb's thats for sure. Yes, that LB corps would be one of the sickest in the league, if not THE sickest. Imagine the speed on the field with Vilma AND Hawk? Pretty sexy scenario, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinnys025 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Yes, that LB corps would be one of the sickest in the league, if not THE sickest. Imagine the speed on the field with Vilma AND Hawk? Pretty sexy scenario, if you ask me. Well, I say it like this...if he's the highest rated on Mangini's draft board, then take him, its as simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutout Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Can anybody make a case for or against AJ Hawk @ 4 that doesn't involve the name "Andy Katzenmoyer" ?? Nope,sure can't... Wait,I've got one "Hawk is dating Brady Quinn's sister...maybe if we draft him,then next year Quinn will say he wants to be a Jet" No wait,we probably won't need Quinn to pull an Eli to get him...plus,his sister kinda looks like Katzenmoyer Sorry Smizzy,I tried and failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted February 26, 2006 Author Share Posted February 26, 2006 Let me try. If we do switch to a 3-4 and draft Hawk,nobody is concerned Vilma & Aj will get eat'n up by blockers? Thomas-Drob-Ellis Thats a small Dline to begin with. Add an undersized Vilma and Hawk and I don't see how it will work. We need beef somewhere. Ferguson Or Ngata. We need beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 A.J Hawk has a mean streak in him -which is one of the qualities you want in a linebacker. I am not saying the Jets should pick him at 4 because I do not think they should but any position on your team that you have a chance to upgrade you do it IMO Linebacker is not our weakest position but if you can improve that area you go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetlag Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 How about this, trading up from our 2nd round pick to get DT Gabe Watson. So 3-4 looks like this. D-Line: Ellis - Watson - Robertson LB: Abraham - Hawk - Vilma - Barton/Hobson/Thomas That doesn't sound too shabby to me although our Offense would still be past putrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Here is my case against Katzenhawk: In terms of yards per game, the Jets defense ranked 12th in the league last year. Offensively, they ranked 31st. It seems that all of the people clammoring for Hawk have forgotten that a guy by the name of "Eric Barton" plays for the Jets. You know, the guy that led the team in tackles in 2004? Sure, the Hobson/Brown combo is not great, but there is no reason to spend a top five pick at a position where we are already better off than a lot of other teams. The Jets defense was on the field more than ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE NFL last year. And that was not because they were old and slow like in 2003, it was because the offense could not get it done. Look, I am all for Hams "Super Unit" idea, but that is for teams that are a piece or two away from a championship, not for teams that need to replace 90% of their offense. Within in the next two seasons, this team must find a new quarterback, running back, wide reciever(s), tight end, center, tackle, guard, and defensive tackle. Those are the musts. Positions like outside linebacker and cornerbacks are luxury picks, and 4-12 teams that have to replace an entire side of the ball do not have those luxuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JETSFAN5180 Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 If Abes a goner the defense will be weakened and A.J Hawk will be an instant fix.Lets all remember Mangini is very defensive oriented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Here is my case against Katzenhawk: In terms of yards per game, the Jets defense ranked 12th in the league last year. Offensively, they ranked 31st. It seems that all of the people clammoring for Hawk have forgotten that a guy by the name of "Eric Barton" plays for the Jets. You know, the guy that led the team in tackles in 2004? Sure, the Hobson/Brown combo is not great, but there is no reason to spend a top five pick at a position where we are already better off than a lot of other teams. The Jets defense was on the field more than ANY OTHER TEAM IN THE NFL last year. And that was not because they were old and slow like in 2003, it was because the offense could not get it done. Look, I am all for Hams "Super Unit" idea, but that is for teams that are a piece or two away from a championship, not for teams that need to replace 90% of their offense. Within in the next two seasons, this team must find a new quarterback, running back, wide reciever(s), tight end, center, tackle, guard, and defensive tackle. Those are the musts. Positions like outside linebacker and cornerbacks are luxury picks, and 4-12 teams that have to replace an entire side of the ball do not have those luxuries. Agree with a lot of stuff here, particularly our needs on offense (obvious as they may be). Our defense SUCKED last year. That 12th ranking, while statistically accurate, is misleading. We were almost always behind & the offense kept giving the ball back after not scoring. So what does the opposition do? They run the ball, usually in 3-5 yard chunks. We may have had the 12th-ranked defense in terms of total yards, but that's b/c few needed to pass the ball against us. They were already winning & we couldn't stop the run. Much like in 2003 when we were just about dead-last vs the run. Our defense was horrible, but to look at stats alone, we had one of the top pass defenses. Was our pass defense so great, or did they just not have to defend anything due to the (relative) rarity of people even attempting to pass on us. When teams NEEDED to pass on us last year, they did so with relative ease for most of the season. This is actually one area I'm very excited about. As much warranted criticism as Barrett has received, he's bound to get better under the proper coaching. Ditto Coleman after his sophomore slump & Rhodes/Miller going into their 2nd years. If Mangini can turn the likes of Ben Gay & Troy Brown into non-liabilities in the secondary, our guys should be just fine. It's our run defense that stunk. Vilma is only effective with a legitimate run-stuffing DT. Otherwise he'll make the tackle, but not until the RB has gone 5 yards already. Abraham is/was a total liability in this area. Losing Barton didn't help either. If we can get that NT from Baltimore or get a real run stuffer like Watson or Stanley in the draft, I'd be very happy. Also like to see what, if any, progress Pouha can make in his 2nd season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Troll Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 I agree on that, Sperm. We don't need to draft an outside linebacker to improve the run defense. We need a.)Barton back healthy, b.)someone to suck up blockers so our waste of three draft picks can be effective, c.)an improved offense that can give the defense a breather. Of course teams are going to be able to run all over a defense that is on the field 35 minutes every game. Particularly with Herm's policy of not giving a **** whether the players are well-conditioned or not. BTW, I am sorry for all the times I have referred to "AJ Katzenmoyer". To be honest, Katzenmoyer is not the first guy I think of when I hear the name AJ Hawk. I think of this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 When you think of guys who have worked well in the Belichick/Parcells-type scheme, you tend to think of bigger, versatile and rangier guys like carl Banks. An LB who can do it all very well, not necessarily a run or pass guy. Hawk isn't that big. And he seems more like a speed rusher than a complete package who can cover a TE or an RB. And he generally didn't see those kinds of plays in college. The Bosworth/roid thing scares the crap out of you. Seems like an parallel and not a good one. It may not be fair because it's one hearsay story. But having said that the Rutgers story above sounds like roid rage-type behavior. Just get the nagging sense the name, the hair, the attitude are all marketing like Bosworth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanTX Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Can anybody make a case for or against AJ Hawk @ 4 that doesn't involve the name "Andy Katzenmoyer" ?? Who is Andy Katzenmoyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shutout Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Who is Andy Katzenmoyer? Well TX,Andy Katzenmoyer is considered the top LB prospect by many in this year's draft. He's coming outta Ohio State,and apparantly is dating Brady Quinn's sister (Don't know if anyone knew about this,but there was a quick little blurb during the Fiesta Bowl about it).... Damn,sorry Smizzy,looks like I did it again. Man,I'm worse at this than i am at Tetris in the arcade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 My RU buds were hanging in this honky tonk music pub off main st in Scottsdale. OSU was in town for the Fiesta Bowl several days beyond our game. AJ came in and everyone was like, "go Buckeyes, yada yada." He just said, "you guys root for Rutgers, screw you," and walked out front and just stood there for a while glowering at nothing in particular. From all reports, he's genuinely mean. Lucky for him, or me, I missed him by a few hours. You would have mopped the floor with that rustbelt juicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Howley III Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Well, I say it like this...if he's the highest rated on Mangini's draft board, then take him, its as simple as that. Vinny, that sig pic is intense. That dude was pretty much done by that point, anyway, he didn't even try to block that round house to the head. Good night Irene. He should have closed in the guy, instead of backing away. Hope they found what was left of his brains, in the first three rows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentucky Jet Posted February 26, 2006 Share Posted February 26, 2006 Katzenmoyer was an absolute stud as a freshman for Ohio State in 1996, then fell off the map the next 2 seasons. He barely sneaked into the first round in 1999 mostly by reputation and physical skills (40 time, ect).... A.J is an absolute star, technically sound, ultra productive and a good workout player. And, unlike Katzenmoyer, he got better each season at OSU. Also, let's not forget, Katzenmoyer is mostly regarded as a bust due to a major career ending neck injury....Andy actually had 4 sacks (real good for a inside linebacker) and a huge 57 yard interception return for a TD as a rookie... He looked like anything but a bust for the Patriots, until he was forced to retire at 24...... That said, A.J's much better and barring injury, will even exceed what Katz did as a rookie. * AGREED and too many guys want to use the BUST label too quickly. Good post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Can anybody make a case for or against AJ Hawk @ 4 that doesn't involve the name "Andy Katzenmoyer" ?? He went to Ohio State. Isn't that enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 He went to Ohio State. Isn't that enough? They used to say the same things about Penn St. Rb's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 They used to say the same things about Penn St. Rb's. No.. I meant the entire program at Ohio State. It sucks... especially anything turned out by Jim Tressel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smizzy Posted February 27, 2006 Author Share Posted February 27, 2006 No.. I meant the entire program at Ohio State. It sucks... especially anything turned out by Jim Tressel. Mike Nugent ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormshadow19 Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 Mike Nugent ?? I stand by my statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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