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Patriots in Twilight Bodes Well for the Jets, Not Just In Wins and Losses...


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1 hour ago, FidelioJet said:

I agree his roster is garbage this year - but....If Brady was there they likely win 11 games instead of missing the playoffs.  Now he has a crappy team will be, at best, .500 and miss the playoffs.

This is the part of your argument I don't understand.  Why did he clearly not know what he was doing? How do you now that? 

He was a two time Super Bowl winning DC - he understood the game. 

He didn't have a quality QB so he failed.

That's the point here.  He's a good  HC, no doubt and possibly the best Defensive mind ever..  But he's like every other coach in the league in that you need a quality QB to have sustained success. 

When he hasn't one he's mostly failed.  Why is that hard to accept?  It's fact.

With this roster, don't bet on it. 

BB has been fortunate to have Brady, I'm not discounting that. What I am saying is he isn't the trash the OP is making him out to be. Most of the loses he pointed to were from the Browns. When BB gets his bust in Canton do you think anyone is going to care about that? 

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5 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

With this roster, don't bet on it. 

BB has been fortunate to have Brady, I'm not discounting that. What I am saying is he isn't the trash the OP is making him out to be. Most of the loses he pointed to were from the Browns. When BB gets his bust in Canton do you think anyone is going to care about that? 

Patriots WRs are league-last in average separation per route. They have much worse weaponz than the Jets. Belichick remains a genius.

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14 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Buffalo can keep Josh Allen. 

Miami can have Tua. 

Because once our Jets land Trevor Lawrence while JD begins to seriously build around him; we'll without question then have the most talented QB within our Division and for many of years to come too. 

And let's see Josh Allen not completely melt down throughout the 2nd half of the playoffs (as he did last year vs. Watson/Houston) and let's first see Buffalo win a single playoff game (for the first time in 26 years) before we go crowning Buffalo as long term AFC East monsters...

 

Tua will be a bust.  After this season Belichick will sign Jimmy G who might play 8 games next season

 

If we get Lawrence and Harbaugh in the offseason and make the right roster moves we could win the division next year

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

Patriots WRs are league-last in average separation per route. They have much worse weaponz than the Jets. Belichick remains a genius.

Belichick finishing 7-9 is a genius?  What does that make Rex Ryan who went 8-8 with Geno Smith and even worse WRs than what the pats have this season?

 

That ESPN kool aid must taste great

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1 hour ago, More Cowbell said:

With this roster, don't bet on it. 

BB has been fortunate to have Brady, I'm not discounting that. What I am saying is he isn't the trash the OP is making him out to be. Most of the loses he pointed to were from the Browns. When BB gets his bust in Canton do you think anyone is going to care about that? 

Belichick is 12 games under .500 without Tom Brady.  He also hasn't appeared in a playoff game without Tom Brady since 1994.

 

He's not trash but he's not this god of football the patriot-loving media makes him out to be

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2 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

Belichick finishing 7-9 is a genius?  What does that make Rex Ryan who went 8-8 with Geno Smith and even worse WRs than what the pats have this season?

 

That ESPN kool aid must taste great

#1 He's not 7-9, yet.

#2 Why do "bad weaponz" only excuse Jets' players/coaches performance?

You can definitely slam Belichick the GM, but he's doing a good job coaching with what he has.

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

#1 He's not 7-9, yet.

#2 Why do "bad weaponz" only excuse Jets' players/coaches performance?

You can definitely slam Belichick the GM, but he's doing a good job coaching with what he has.

He's doing an average job this year.  You are grading on the Adam Gase/Todd Bowles hideousness curve were any mediocre HC looks like Vince Lombardi compared to our trash HCs

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4 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

He's doing an average job this year.  You are grading on the Adam Gase/Todd Bowles hideousness curve were any mediocre HC looks like Vince Lombardi compared to our trash HCs

I don't think so. The Patriots talent level is terrible and many starters opted out. If he had this record with the 2018 Pats, I'd agree with you.

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Just now, jgb said:

I don't think so. The Patriots talent level is terrible and many starters opted out. If he had this record with the 2018 Pats, I'd agree with you.

No it's not.  Cam has played fairly well this year after having a year off to get healthy again.  Their OL is one of the better units in the NFL.  You keep crying about their WRs yet they have a stable of decent running backs with Harris, White, Michel and their defensive roster is largely unchanged from last season when they were statistically one of the best defenses in the entire league. 

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6 minutes ago, Philc1 said:

No it's not.  Cam has played fairly well this year after having a year off to get healthy again.  Their OL is one of the better units in the NFL.  You keep crying about their WRs yet they have a stable of decent running backs with Harris, White, Michel and their defensive roster is largely unchanged from last season when they were statistically one of the best defenses in the entire league. 

Who is crying? I just disagree with you bud. Don't let it spoil your weekend lol 

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4 hours ago, hamat711 said:

Just picture this scenario........

Lawrence struggles by rookie standards, and so do the Jets in general with a unproven head coach, things can get ugly.

By next year, the honeymoon phase with Joe Douglas is over. You simply do not have job security if you go 1-15 or 0-16 in your first full year. Two bad years can very likely cost Douglas his job.

If a new GM is brought in, he will have no ties to the current coach. Sometimes rookie head coaches just aren't the answer. Wilks was fired in his first year with Arizona. 

A lot of assumptions are made here, but all these scenarios seem plausible. I did this same thought process with Darnold before the season and I nailed it. I said this year is more important for Darnold than any other QB in his draft class because nobody in the organization was tied to his future and his coach was on the hot seat.

 

And if you repeatedly fire the GM and coach after 1 / 2 years, you'll be hiring and firing second and third rate guys from then on. No-one who is any good will come near the organisation with that reputation going around.

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If your theory is correct and the league is rigged than they rigged it so that this team will be a laughing stock

Ione thing all of middle and southern America can agree upon, its f NYC.

The Jets sell out every game and are the 6th most valuable franchise in the league.

Maybe you're right about the rig. Woody Johnson took a deal to be the leagues heel than he left the country

Why would they rig it in the Jets favor? It's a winning formula for the league

What’s better for the league? 
 Trevor to New York or Trevor to Jacksonville? 
 
I say adding TL to the AFC East might be the most exciting division in football since you had Marino, Obrien & Kelly in this division. 
It was the worst division in football (QB wise during the Pats 19 year run!)
Allen, Tua, Lawrence. 
 
I don’t know what I’m getting at only that the NFL is a business & Goodell and these owners only care about the bottom line so I’m hoping word has come down from above that the Jets need TO LOSE these next 4 or the Jags need to win 1. 
The leagues been rigged for a while now & now that snidely whiplash (Brady) is out of New England they’re no longer cheating for them.
Its a new decade. 


Sent from my Pixel 2 using JetNation.com mobile app

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14 hours ago, hamat711 said:

So you crown a QB you haven't even drafted yet as the best QB in the division but discredit the Bills for not winning a playoff game? The hypocrisy in this comment is insane.

Josh Allen is surrounded by a good organization. I can't say the same for the Jets and their future QB. 

For some reason you guys are in love with a GM who made a below average team into one of the worst teams ever. 

Half the board did it with Darnold....

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2 hours ago, Philc1 said:

Belichick finishing 7-9 is a genius?  What does that make Rex Ryan who went 8-8 with Geno Smith and even worse WRs than what the pats have this season?

 

That ESPN kool aid must taste great

Yup. Rex Ryan won 11 games with Sanchez and went to back to back AFC Championship games!!! That must be Einstien level stuff.

 

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1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

The Patriots looking like crap would be much more satisfying if instead of 0-12 and the worst team of all time we were winning the division like the Bills or making the playoffs like the Dolphins.

Let's hope we nab Lawrence and Joe Douglas turns things around.

After all... the pig is finally ripe.

Our best years over ten years resemble the Pat’s 2020 season—which we mock without irony.

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19 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Stop it. Just stop already. 

Bill Belichick throughout 130 games is only 60-70 overall (.428%) without Tom Brady. 

That is no "small sample size" either; that's 8.1 years worth of Head Coaching experience without Tom Brady. 

He's a 60-70 (.428%) career loser without Tom Brady throughout 130 games and that's (not quite) but almost Adam Gase like (.395%). 

Fraud!

 

We live in a world we’re people have hero worshipping problems which leads to them omitting basic facts. It’s not just a problem in sports as you can see from these past election cycles...

 

 

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5 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

We live in a world we’re people have hero worshipping problems which leads to them omitting basic facts. It’s not just a problem in sports as you can see from these past election cycles...

 

 

Except this conclusion requires the absurd assumption that Belichick has not evolved or learned anything in his last 25 years of NOT being the HC of the Browns 

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Except this conclusion requires the absurd assumption that Belichick has not evolved or learned anything in his last 25 years of NOT being the HC of the Browns 

Learned? What? How to get carried by a Generational talent QB? The point is he hasn’t won anything substantial as a head coach without Tom Brady 

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7 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Btw....look at Parcells record without BB.  It's very bad.

BB isn't a great coach.  He's a guy that happened to have the best DC of all times.

I think you mean to say “BP isn’t a great coach.”

But I disagree. Great coaches build great staffs that stick with them a long time because they respect them. It’s a huge part of the job.

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8 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Learned? What? How to get carried by a Generational talent QB? The point is he hasn’t won anything substantial as a head coach without Tom Brady 

He has had one year in the last 25 without him. He’s not the same guy that he was back in CLE. 6 rings. This is just really sour grapes.

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4 hours ago, jgb said:

He has had one year in the last 25 without him. He’s not the same guy that he was back in CLE. 6 rings. This is just really sour grapes.

Amazing... back to my original statement “we live in a world where people have hero worshipping issues, which leads to them purposefully or mistakenly omitting simple facts. 
 

me or anyone for that matter typing “bill hasn’t won’t anything substantial without 12” - isn’t wrong, it’s a fact period. BUT YOU CALL THAT FACT SOUR GRAPES 🤣🤦‍♂️

 

why even argue when someone is this entrapped in the fantasy that they cannot accept simple facts presented to them? 


 

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14 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Amazing... back to my original statement “we live in a world where people have hero worshipping issues, which leads to them purposefully or mistakenly omitting simple facts. 
 

me or anyone for that matter typing “bill hasn’t won’t anything substantial without 12” - isn’t wrong, it’s a fact period. BUT YOU CALL THAT FACT SOUR GRAPES 🤣🤦‍♂️

 

why even argue when someone is this entrapped in the fantasy that they cannot accept simple facts presented to them? 


 

Looks like only one of us is getting worked up. Why does it threaten you that some people think he has earned the near-universal consensus that he’s the best coach of all time? 

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8 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Amazing... back to my original statement “we live in a world where people have hero worshipping issues, which leads to them purposefully or mistakenly omitting simple facts. 
 

me or anyone for that matter typing “bill hasn’t won’t anything substantial without 12” - isn’t wrong, it’s a fact period. BUT YOU CALL THAT FACT SOUR GRAPES 🤣🤦‍♂️

 

why even argue when someone is this entrapped in the fantasy that they cannot accept simple facts presented to them? 

 

8 hours ago, jgb said:

Looks like only one of us is getting worked up. Why does it threaten you that some people think he has earned the near-universal consensus that he’s the best coach of all time? 

Why can’t both of these things be true, and can’t both of you be correct to a certain degree?

It seems pretty factual that Belichick was a failure in Cleveland and is now struggling this year with the Patriots, and also struggled (to a degree) in his first year or two in New England without Brady. But those are the ugly pieces of bread on either side of a HOF sandwich.

Having an elite quarterback does not guarantee success, and it certainly doesn’t guarantee repeated success. BB coached the most successful NFL franchise over a 20 year period with constant assistant coach changes, personnel changes, strengths and weaknesses on offense and defense, and numerous adversaries that rose and fell over those years. He is one of the most adaptable head coaches I have ever seen, tailoring his teams approach to what will work with what he has. Just because you have the best car in NASCAR doesn’t guarantee you will win every race.

That Aaron Rodgers only won one Super Bowl under Mike McCarthy, that Drew Brees has only won one with Sean Payton, that Peyton Manning never went to more than one Super Bowl with the same coach, that a first-of-its-kind offensive system and core group of 49ers personnel was able to win Super Bowls with two different quarterbacks, etc. all goes to show the strength of both Belichick and the combination he had with his quarterback.

These next couple of years will likely shine more light on these two guys given their new situations. They are not the same without each other.

BB and TB were a match made in heaven for NFL historians and a match made in hell for the Jets. 

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19 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Bellichicks Bill O'Brien like GM resume finally caught up to him. 

His drafting has been garbage and he has let a lot of excellent players walk that he could have kept.

His Qb covered up a lot of faults.  His QB development has sucked despite drafting many 'Heirs'

Having the greatest QB ever for 20 years covers up a lot of mistakes

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

Looks like only one of us is getting worked up. Why does it threaten you that some people think he has earned the near-universal consensus that he’s the best coach of all time? 

Because that's an incorrect opinion.  He's not even going to have a .500 record after losing Brady this season and it will probably go downhill further next year since what he really should have been doing is tanking for trevor

 

Belichick is the NFL's Phil Jackson

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On 12/10/2020 at 10:47 PM, hamat711 said:

Idk man. The AFCE is looking very scary for the Jets. Everyone seems to have gotten their act together.

Miami and Buffalo each went 3-1 vs the NFCW, which is easily the best division in football. Even their loses were close games. Just look at their schedules. Both teams have had extremely hard schedules unlike the teams in the AFCN.

 

Buffalo - They have been one of the best run organizations since McDermott was hired. You can argue their GM has been the best in the league since he was hired. Just look at his first draft class in 2018, which might have been the most complete draft in that time span. He drafted a Franchise QB, Pro-Bowl Linebacker, Future All-Pro Guard, a starting Nickel CB, and several depth players who are still on the team. Only one player from that draft class isn't in the league. He even found a starter in UDFA.

 

Miami - They already have their coach, GM, and they already drafted their QB. Like the Jets, Miami also has amazing draft capital. In one year Flores was able to turn a historically bad defense into a elite unit. They have massively exceeded expectations in both years. Flores looks to be the real deal. If you give them a few more offensive pieces, they can be very scary as Tua develops. It's interesting that Flores has even stated that he wanted to build the Dolphins in a similar model to the McDermott and the Bills.

 

Patriots - Their on pace to go 8-8 or 7-9, which is amazing when you consider their talent and what transpired this off-season. They simply don't have the talent on offense right now. The hoodie is still an elite coach. They also have a lot of cap space to reload from the talent they lost. They can easily return to contender status this off-season. I wouldn't be shocked if they acquire a QB like Jimmy G or Wentz and contend for the AFCE next year.

 

Jets - You assume the Jets get Lawrence. The Jets still need to get the right coach first. I'm not convinced Douglas is even going to be the GM of the Jets in two years. Reality is your leash is short if your team gets the first pick. If you get a New HC and Lawrence struggles his first year, the new Head Coach and Douglas will instantly be on the hot seat. Can the Jets even attract a top Head Coach with a proven track record? The Jets have very few foundational pieces for their rebuild. Becton, Quinnen and maybe Mosley, Mims and Fatukasi. The rest of the roster is below average or not under contract. 

Excellent observations.  A more complete story would include their ownership and how they earned their wealth.  I'd argue we have the weakest ownership in the division.  I do think we have some of the foundation laid and hope Douglas knows what he's doing.  I think we can stick a fork in Mosely.  Such a bad contract.  I'm tired of watching my team always pay off stars from other teams who will not.  Oh yeah, the Jets have to keep losing this year. 

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