BUM-KNEE Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I'm not gonna blame Sam, it's the coaches that didn't put him in a situation to succeed. The owners know zippo about football, so it's hard to blame them much. Still, they could've demanded the young QB had some top notch guidance through all this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnie Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I don't blame Sam ... he's just not The Man.Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggs Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I blame myself for continually deluding myself that the next savior of the Jets is in next years draft... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Both. We wrote the book on how not to help a young QB but Darnold never hasn't shown improvement even when the situation around him has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 13 hours ago, southtown24th said: I voted: I blame Sam Darnold for his lack of progression, lack of learning, lack of improvement, etc. It's Sam's fault, mainly. we'd still be a poor team. just not a winless team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losmeister Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 28 minutes ago, Dunnie said: I don't blame Sam ... he's just not The Man. Sent from my SM-G950U1 using JetNation.com mobile app blame/responsibility... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 14 hours ago, Jets Voice of Reason said: It’s both of them. The Jets have not built around him properly and seem to have this massive aversion to prioritizing skill position players. Sam has not improved his mechanics or decision-making at all. A more driven player finds a way to get it done. From what we have read about Sam everything points to him putting in a ton of work (so he is driven) but come Sunday when you have to make decisions within a 2 second window and there is no Red Jersey things change in a hurry. No matter how much work you put in if you don't learn to process information at light speed as an NFL QB I'm not sure you can ever learn how too. Darnold, the past few weeks has limited the amount of times he has thrown off his back foot he is stepping up into the pocket and stepping into his throws. I felt that was the biggest problem but even with those adjustments he still does not make good decisions and continues to miss open receivers and make terrible throws into coverage In a perfect world where Darnold is throwing to an open guy he just happened to see he's very good but when that first read is not open he Fails in a big way and I'm not sure that can be taught. Also based on some comments he has made it clear he does not see the field well nor does he have a good grasp of reading a defense. I think 2/3rd's of this falls on the coaches the other third of processing info out on the field is just not there and may never be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waka Flocka Flacco Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 33 minutes ago, Smashmouth said: From what we have read about Sam everything points to him putting in a ton of work (so he is driven) but come Sunday when you have to make decisions within a 2 second window and there is no Red Jersey things change in a hurry. No matter how much work you put in if you don't learn to process information at light speed as an NFL QB I'm not sure you can ever learn how too. Darnold, the past few weeks has limited the amount of times he has thrown off his back foot he is stepping up into the pocket and stepping into his throws. I felt that was the biggest problem but even with those adjustments he still does not make good decisions and continues to miss open receivers and make terrible throws into coverage In a perfect world where Darnold is throwing to an open guy he just happened to see he's very good but when that first read is not open he Fails in a big way and I'm not sure that can be taught. Also based on some comments he has made it clear he does not see the field well nor does he have a good grasp of reading a defense. I think 2/3rd's of this falls on the coaches the other third of processing info out on the field is just not there and may never be. The guy can't do the thing but it's okay because based on comments we have determined it is 2/3 somebody else's fault dur dur durrrrrrrrrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 14 hours ago, SAR I said: Sam is a bust. We were warned, we didn't listen, and it happened. SAR I No one warned us. Rewriting history when the guy they picked to mentor him was totally incapable and incompetent and not going him tools to grow was a major reason to fail. That should have been the warning to the team, surround a kid with garbage and what should expect to come out of it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said: The guy can't do the thing but it's okay because based on comments we have determined it is 2/3 somebody else's fault dur dur durrrrrrrrrr Exactly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugg Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 3 hours ago, LockeJET said: Gase is garbage but he took the Dolphins to the playoffs one year. Ryan T wasn't great but he wasn't Sam bad. You saw flashes and he made plays. Sam is a bust and won't be good wherever he goes. His flaws were also issues at USC. He can't read defenses, hence the terrible picks and stupid throws, has no pre snap awareness, terrible deep ball, terrible footwork, terrible arm angles and is not s smart QB as he holds on to the ball to long and doesn't know when to throw it away. His issues are much deeper than coaching or weapons. When you are 0-13 everyone is at fault but make no mistake about it, Sam is a bust! Franchise QBs find a way to the top regardless of coaching or weapons. It's Sad it didn't work out here and I hope he can find his way but he's just not good. Might become serviceable but never will be a top 10-15 guy. So as a 3rd overall pick he's a failure. Hangs onto the ball forever, cannot read a defense to save his life and has no ability to sense the defense at the line. In year 3, he cannot audible, not only because Gase is a control freak, because he's incapable. His almost INT to Adams was his whole career in one play; how can you not pick up a safety in the middle of the field? As bad as Sunday was, imagine how much worse it would have been if Adams could catch. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 1 hour ago, Smashmouth said: From what we have read about Sam everything points to him putting in a ton of work (so he is driven) but come Sunday when you have to make decisions within a 2 second window and there is no Red Jersey things change in a hurry. No matter how much work you put in if you don't learn to process information at light speed as an NFL QB I'm not sure you can ever learn how too. Darnold, the past few weeks has limited the amount of times he has thrown off his back foot he is stepping up into the pocket and stepping into his throws. I felt that was the biggest problem but even with those adjustments he still does not make good decisions and continues to miss open receivers and make terrible throws into coverage In a perfect world where Darnold is throwing to an open guy he just happened to see he's very good but when that first read is not open he Fails in a big way and I'm not sure that can be taught. Also based on some comments he has made it clear he does not see the field well nor does he have a good grasp of reading a defense. I think 2/3rd's of this falls on the coaches the other third of processing info out on the field is just not there and may never be. I used to golf a ton in the US. I was never a good golfer. Some people have it, some people don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 4 hours ago, Irish Jet said: Both. We wrote the book on how not to help a young QB but Darnold never hasn't shown improvement even when the situation around him has. When exactly did the situation around him improve? From what I can tell it's gotten progressively worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 hours ago, Jet Nut said: No one warned us. Rewriting history when the guy they picked to mentor him was totally incapable and incompetent and not going him tools to grow was a major reason to fail. That should have been the warning to the team, surround a kid with garbage and what should expect to come out of it? Whether you want to believe it or not there were plenty of warning signs about Sam. I didn't like the pick I wanted Baker Mayfield but that was not in the cards so I hoped at some point Darnold would work out and he didn't. There's plenty of proof out there in video this guy consistently misses Open WR's and his pocket presence and blitz awareness is just plain bad, it was the exact same way in College when he should have been lighting it up but his last year he seemed to regress. QB"s learn by evaluating film and they know exactly what's coming at them based on what teams do from week to week on defense. Defenses do not develop new plays for every single game they have packages they use and may mix things up from time to time but a good QB should recognize WTF is going on based on the tendencies of that defense he's facing. If you don't recognize those things you will never make it as an NFL QB. Sam just like many other QB's fails in this category in a big way and processing information at fast speeds can not be taught, some have it some don't. Every once in a while a defense may give a Rodgers or a Mahome's or a Brady Fits but it doesn't happen often with Sam it happens every week. At some point you would expect a guy like Darnold to put up a game where he just lights it up and in 3 years I can count those on one hand. You talk about surrounding him with garbage but that garbage is open and Sam is missing those open guys. You add an elite QB to that mix and suddenly they are no longer garbage. In year 3 you know for sure whether you have that guy or not and we certainly do not. Just like Sanchez, Darnold will go elsewhere and do the same damn things he's doing here. IMO Opinion Darnold could be a good back up QB .... his numbers and how he plays dictate that. If he backs up for a number of years maybe something will click but as of right now he's a bottom 5 starter in the NFL and those guys just don't last long starting in this league. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 hours ago, jgb said: I used to golf a ton in the US. I was never a good golfer. Some people have it, some people don't. Exactly my point on Darnold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Smashmouth said: Exactly my point on Darnold. Yep. No one thinks he's a bad guy or lazy. He's just not a FQB and may not even be a starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 3 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said: The guy can't do the thing but it's okay because based on comments we have determined it is 2/3 somebody else's fault dur dur durrrrrrrrrr Rather nit picking peoples posts with stupid comments why don't you add something intelligent to the conversation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 21 minutes ago, Smashmouth said: You talk about surrounding him with garbage but that garbage is open and Sam is missing those open guys. You add an elite QB to that mix and suddenly they are no longer garbage. In year 3 you know for sure whether you have that guy or not and we certainly do not. Just like Sanchez, Darnold will go elsewhere and do the same damn things he's doing here. Youre out of your mind if you believe any QB could make anything out of the garbage hes had. I dont want to hear about one or two games with Mims etc. Im talking about a year where its basically crowder and a guy who runs outs. Or when your WRs are Berrios etc. Hes had pure garbage and no one would look good with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Youre out of your mind if you believe any QB could make anything out of the garbage hes had. I dont want to hear about one or two games with Mims etc. Im talking about a year where its basically crowder and a guy who runs outs. Or when your WRs are Berrios etc. Hes had pure garbage and no one would look good with them. This can all be true and Sam can still suck. Every QB on a bad team isn't a secret FQB in hiding -- most of them just stink. There is insufficient evidence to believe Sam is an outlier. Again, anything is possible and nothing is a guarantee. But betting on Darnold right now is a very bad bet and hence why I believe we're likely looking at a mid-round pick for him which would be a coup in and of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 It is not even close. The Jets drafted Darnold and then let him rot with one of the worst OL, bad Wr's, bad RB's, and a clown show at HC. I thought Bowels was the worst modern day HC until I saw Gase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 3 minutes ago, jgb said: This can all be true and Sam can still suck. Every QB on a bad team isn't a secret FQB in hiding -- most of them just stink. There is insufficient evidence to believe Sam is an outlier. Again, anything is possible and nothing is a guarantee. But betting on Darnold right now is a very bad bet and hence why I believe we're likely looking at a mid-round pick for him which would be a coup in and of itself. Yes he can. But with garbage around him you would never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Just now, Jet Nut said: Yes he can. But with garbage around him you would never know. Ok, @Hackenberg - Banned. But we do know the odds. And they ain't good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Just now, jgb said: Ok, @Hackenberg - Banned. But we do know the odds. And they ain't good. And I stand by the statement that with what was around him you dont know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: And I stand by the statement that with what was around him you dont know. Well JD isn't waiting for you to catch up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinc855 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 San never had a shot... JD was basically his hit man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 18 hours ago, jgb said: There has been zero evidence that Sam is a secret FQB in disguise. Just look at Tannehill numbers with Gase, the QB so many pin their hopes on for a Sam turnaround. Totally different league. Yeah, Tanny was so good on Miami they waived him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 17 hours ago, rangerous said: Just what exactly did darnold do at that guru Palmer’s QBs camp? Seems to me he should’ve been about to correct some of his mechanics but he came back worse. Palmer runs a QB camp that I put on the level of fantasy camps for fans. If Palmer was this QB whisperer ever E seems to think, don't you think he would be on an NFL staff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
68JET11 Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 Darnold has certainly not played well, and should shoulder his own blame, however this organization has been a sh!tshow since the brothers Johnson have taken ownership of this team and deserve 99.9% of all blame. Hire a damm PFO already you 2 screwed up pieces of poop.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 I'm just going to say this. If you put TL behind horrible OL that doesn't block and allows jailbreaks up the middle, if the best WR you give him is a slot guy and another that just runs post routes, if the best RB you give him is no better than what we got out of Bell, and if the best HC you give him is Todd Bowels and then follow it up with Gase, In three years we will be looking for another generational QB 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: Yeah, Tanny was so good on Miami they waived him. They traded him, actually. Tenn paid a 4th and a 7th and got Tannehill and a 6th. Tannehill showed infinitely more than Darnold up to that point but was more expensive. I think the trade value is roughly equal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 5 minutes ago, jgb said: They traded him, actually. Tenn paid a 4th and a 7th and got Tannehill and a 6th. Tannehill showed infinitely more than Darnold up to that point but was more expensive. I think the trade value is roughly equal. You are correct. I read something that Tanny and his agent chose to go there. Either way, Tammy was not a very well thought of QB on Miami and Miami had actually put talent around him. Saying Gase developed him on Miami is comical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 9 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: Palmer runs a QB camp that I put on the level of fantasy camps for fans. If Palmer was this QB whisperer ever E seems to think, don't you think he would be on an NFL staff? exactly. i can see him not wanting to be a position coach, especially if he can get all of these qbs to come from him for "instruction". he probably makes more than enough to have a pretty good lifestyle and keep him in wine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, More Cowbell said: You are correct. I read something that Tanny and his agent chose to go there. Either way, Tammy was not a very well thought of QB on Miami and Miami had actually put talent around him. Saying Gase developed him on Miami is comical. Who is saying that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 36 minutes ago, Jet Nut said: Youre out of your mind if you believe any QB could make anything out of the garbage hes had. I dont want to hear about one or two games with Mims etc. Im talking about a year where its basically crowder and a guy who runs outs. Or when your WRs are Berrios etc. Hes had pure garbage and no one would look good with them. Sorry but I'm not out of my mind since the video does not lie. While I agree the talent level is not the best in the league by a long shot. Crowder is a very good Slot guy Perriman was lighting it up end of last year until he got a good dose of Darnold and Mims is panning out to be a damn good receiver and Darnold has not had one really good game this entire season. Even when being behind most of the time Darnold can't even rack up yards in garbage time or when defense go prevent. That's sad because even the worst of QB's mop up well when the defense backs off. Darnold is not even a top 20 QB and my best guess is he will never be a top 20 QB that being said how many bottom 20 QB's consistently make the playoffs or even win a playoff game ? Very few unless you have an elite defense and an elite running game kind of like we had in 09 10 with Sanchez at QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted December 15, 2020 Share Posted December 15, 2020 13 minutes ago, 68JET11 said: Darnold has certainly not played well, and should shoulder his own blame, however this organization has been a sh!tshow since the brothers Johnson have taken ownership of this team and deserve 99.9% of all blame. Hire a damm PFO already you 2 screwed up pieces of poop.... you mean the johnson's didn't own the team when rex took them to two afc championship games? or when herm took them to a divisional championship game? or when mangini took them to the playoffs? imo their problem is they've listened to "experts" when they selected idzik and macagnan and those guys ran the team down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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