On Rooting for Losses

[Saul Goodman]

I’m not going to root for losses under any circumstances. But, I am admittedly allowing myself to get excited about the prospect of drafting TL (bad idea, as most long-time Jet fans should know). So I’m good with losing out if that’s what happens.
 

Still, thought this was an amusing and probably accurate meme about the situation. 

[y2k8]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

On every NFL team, most of the players will be gone every three years. 

what remains over time is a handful of difference makers and the program itself

I'm skeptical of the tank because the stench as you call it is not easily washed away 

it doesn't just happen by changing the calendar 

 

It happens by changing the coaching staff, more specifically hiring someone who knows what he's doing and hires other coaches who know what they are suppose to do.

People say it is a QB league. It really isn't. Yes, it's the most important position on the team but you don't have to look far to see the difference between winning and losing organizations. It's not the QB.

Rooting for losses is more about making sure Adam Gase leaves the building more than it is about Trevor Lawrence entering it.

[More Cowbell]

This year is what it is now. At this point I'm totally numb. I'm more curious about how this board reacts when we start 0-4 and Lawrence throws a few picks. 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

People say it is a QB league. It really isn't. Yes, it's the most important position on the team but you don't have to look far to see the difference between winning and losing organizations. It's not the QB.

Seriously?  Since the Ty Law rule went into effect, only 10 different QB's have won Super Bowls over that 16-year period, and 8 of those 10 QB's are either lock HOFers or are on a HOF path.  

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

3 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

This year is what it is now. At this point I'm totally numb. I'm more curious about how this board reacts when we start 0-4 and Lawrence throws a few picks. 

This is numb? It seems a lot more like still butthurt that Darnold is terrible.

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Seriously?  Since the Ty Law rule went into effect, only 10 different QB's have won Super Bowls over that 16-year period, and 8 of those 10 QB's are either lock HOFers or are on a HOF path.  

Outliers

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

This is numb? It seems a lot more like still butthurt that Darnold is terrible.

Nah, real Jets fans defend their QB to the end but already start downplaying the next QB before he's even drafted.

[Jetster]

This is a bunch of CRAP!

Lets turn the clock back & tell every Colt fan that they win 2 meaningless games & lose Payton Manning. Then ask them, does it hurt to think about? 3 meaningless losses left, let's go get em. 

None of know what will happen but at least this week I know we'll be 0-14! Do you think for one iota I give a sh*t about a 0-16 record, compared to an 1-15 record if I'm buying tickets to watch Trevor Lawrence QB the Jets? 

We're not the 1st to be winless. Browns have an awesome record this year. They were 1-31 not long ago!

 

[Lupz27]

3 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

Didn’t the Eagles win a Super Bowl after using a top-2 draft pick on a QB?

 

Yes but they traded way up to get him they didn’t lose football games to get there.

[freestater]

we will end up with TL or Justin Fields. I'm good with either. Personally though, I will root for the New York Gases to lose every ******* snap until that googly eyed albatross and his gang of over the hill losers are tossed out like yesterday's trash. **** him, and Gore and anybody else that makes a living grifting off of phone calls from Peyton Manning. 

[dbatesman]

38 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And front offices and current players have diverging interests as well.  Hence why tanking is absolutely a thing in the NBA and probably a thing in the NFL, too.  

About half of the players on the current roster won't be on the team in 2021.  Some of them won't be in the league at all.  Of course they're all going to play hard.  For quite a few of these guys this might be the last time we see them in the NFL, and they're clawing to ensure that doesn't happen.  But that does almost nothing to help the 2021 Jets.  

Right on. A friend of mine is an Eagles fan, and he's about the same age as Kelce. Well, Kelce will be on his couch drooling into his beard in what, three years? Meanwhile my buddy has to watch the Eagles for (God willing) the next four decades. I'm not sure why we're all supposed to defer to the former viewpoint.

[Jet Nut]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

I agree, QB is unquestionably the most important position in the NFL.

But.....if someone is going to use the "Eagles winning the Super Bowl" as an argument for tanking a season for T.L., it shouldn't go unsaid that Wentz (the T.L. analog in this argument) has played 5 years, and has exactly one playoff appearance and a total of 3 playoff passing yards. 

A guy who only has a ring because a Journeyman 3rd rounder came in and saved his ass.

Wentz career record?  35-32-1.  He's basically a journeyman at this point.  A barely .500 QB.  

Respectfully, I'm not tanking to get a guy like Wentz.  And T.L. better be degrees BETTER than Wentz, frankly, given all the hype.

Let's be honest, were most o fthe best QB's in the NFL taken #1/#1 or at least as the first QB taken? 

Nope.

So sure, we can be happy we're going to get the #1 pick perhaps.  It's a guarantee of absolutely nothing.

No, I get what you were saying but thats the thing even in that example QB play was instrumental in Philly taking home the trophy.  Even with Wentz's one playoff trip last year, he carried that team on his back into the playoffs.  And really if he wasnt injured prior couple of seasons who knows.  

I'm not saying draft a stud QB prospect and the dynasty begins, I'm saying if he pans out the biggest part of the puzzle is accounted for.  But agree, 100% guarantees nothing 

[y2k8]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Seriously?  Since the Ty Law rule went into effect, only 10 different QB's have won Super Bowls over that 16-year period, and 8 of those 10 QB's are either lock HOFers or are on a HOF path.  

That's a pretty narrow view of what constitutes a winning organization. Other QBs that played in a SB this decade include Garoppolo, Goff. Foles, Kaepernick, Flacco and Eli Manning.  Hardly immortals.

Look at the Saints record the last 2 years playing without Brees.  

 

[Mogglez]

[Jet Nut]

7 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

That's a pretty narrow view of what constitutes a winning organization. Other QBs that played in a SB this decade include Garoppolo, Goff. Foles, Kaepernick, Flacco and Eli Manning.  Hardly immortals.

Look at the Saints record the last 2 years playing without Brees.  

 

And?  Almost half of those QBs lost.  The QBs that won had great runs, got hot at the right time to get the win.  

Still, nothing about the idea that its pretty much a given that a top QB or better yet top QB play is required to get there and to win the SB and I'd rather take my chances that that will happen with a top QB int place

 

[munchmemory]

[Jetsfan80]

22 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

That's a pretty narrow view of what constitutes a winning organization. Other QBs that played in a SB this decade include Garoppolo, Goff. Foles, Kaepernick, Flacco and Eli Manning.  Hardly immortals.

Look at the Saints record the last 2 years playing without Brees.  

So looking at Super Bowl winners is too narrow a focus for you?  Cool.  Well, if I expand outwards, I assure you that it will not be helpful for your side of the argument.  Ben Roethlisberger has 13 playoff wins in that 2005-present span I noted.  Aaron Rodgers has 10.  Russell Wilson has 9.  Drew Brees has 8.  Mahomes already has 4.  Poke fun at Eli Manning all you want, but he is likely going to the HOF, even if his pass rush had as much to do with his playoff success as he did.  

Sure, there are other instances of bad or mediocre QB's making playoff runs.  But the only sustainable success has come for teams with consistent franchise QB play.  There's a reason the Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, Packers and Saints have had sustained success over the last 1.5 decades (or 8 years, in Seattle's case).  In Green Bay's case they won their Super Bowl in SPITE of bad coaching out of Mike McCarthy.  All of those teams have been making deep playoff runs time and again because of QB play.  

If it really is primarily about coaching and the rest of the roster, and not primarily the QB....why is Bill Belichick struggling so badly without Tom Brady?  And why did Pete Carroll and the Seahawks suck so much prior to Russell Wilson's arrival?

[Mogglez]

4 hours ago, bitonti said:

The best interest of the team is to win games 

Nothing says “this is in our best interest” like a bunch of players that won’t be here next year beating the snot out of the Jarrett Stidham led Patriots, who have nothing to play for, en route to 1-15, costing us the best player, at the most important position in sports, to come out since Andrew Luck.

That will show the league we’re not meant to be taken lightly.

[More Cowbell]

41 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

This is numb? It seems a lot more like still butthurt that Darnold is terrible.

What ever you want to call it. I totally don't care about this team and see no reason to think they will handle whoever the next QB is any differently than the way we handled Darnold unless we hire Daboll

 That is about the only thing that will excite me at this point. 

[Be_a_Jet]

He's right as a player that's your priority - but out of pure self-interest because if you play bad that's not only bad for the team it is bad for your prospects of getting picked up somewhere else, getting more money, securing your future, or even if you want to stay with the team but want Trevor Lawrence - its still not smart for you to play bad because chances of team to keep a bad player is less than keeping a person who's making plays despite losing. 

 

As fans, we're right. We want Jets to lose out mostly because Sam Darnold is not the guy and even if he is A guy he's not OUR guy because of trash Adam Gase demolishing his confidence here. Truth is these players will in all due time be off the roster at some point and we'll still be here as fans while they reap the benefits/money of playing in this league. So spare us the self-righteous stuff cuz players and fans are not the same thing and therefore don't have the same outlook on what's best for the team. Doesn't make us or them wrong. 

[Greenseed4]

1 hour ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

To be fair, he was hurt before that post-season run.  

He was 11-2 before tearing his ACL. I think it’s fair to say he helped the team get into the playoffs.  Which goes to show that getting a good QB can turn things around fast. 

[varjet]

We all knew that 2020 was likely not a playoff year, but the consensus on the Board was that the Jets should try and win every week, develop Darnold and try for the playoffs in 2021.   We were hopeful for Darnold, and understood that his price increased to $25mm in 2022.   We were not looking to play the draft pick game and hope for a new QB with a new rookie contract.  Hopefully Darnold would work out, and the Jets would pay him what he deserved.  

We were optimistic that JD's one-year contracts were tryouts.   That JD built a team to compete in 2021.  That our draft picks would mostly be good.  

But at some point in time we realized that the 2020 Jets team was one of the worst in NFL history (true).  Many of the one-year contracts would not be extended.  JD seemed to lose his magic after round 2.  Gase's game plans were completely ineffective, and GW reverted to a loose cannon that the NFL knew how to attack.   Most importantly, despite the fact that Darnold is poorly supported and coached, it is apparent to everyone that, at a minimum, he is not worth committing today to pay $25mm in 2022.   We have seen the difference that Elway, the Mannings and Luck, even Goff and Wentz, has meant to teams.   So, especially now, I am rooting for the Jets to lose.   Nothing is gained from winning a single game and not getting Trevor.  We are not teaching most of the players on this roster to win.  They won't be here in 2021, and hopefully Gase will not either.  

2021 will be another reboot.   Even if the Jets get TL, they will still likely struggle.  But it is worth the fans rooting to lose, this one season.

But I don't expect Gase or the players to try and lose.  JD may have to make some adjustments as the season concludes.  

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

Nobody is arguing that the players should not play to win or that every player that has to take the field should not play to win.  As a fan, though, I have the right to root for the team to lose and - for the Jets - losing and getting the first pick is incredibly important.  One pick can make all the difference between say - Peyton Manning or Ryan Lief ;  Brett Favre and Browning Nagle; Andrew Luck and RGIII

[Greenseed4]

45 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Yes but they traded way up to get him they didn’t lose football games to get there.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. 
They moved from #8 to #2 in 2016.

...giving up a 1 (#8), 3 (#77), 5 (#100), first round (2017), second round (2018).

...the Browns traded the 2017 first round pick to HOU (Deshaun Watson), and got a later first round (2017), and HOU first round (2018), which was #4 overall. 

Can you imagine if PHI was able to land Wentz by staying put? Like, he was just there when their pick came up, and they didn’t need to trade away what became two 1st round picks, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 5th?  

They could have had their stud QB and all of those picks to draft talent to surround him with. 
——

It’s going to be like that, but without having to do anything. 

[y2k8]

47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So looking at Super Bowl winners is too narrow a focus for you?  Cool.  Well, if I expand outwards, I assure you that it will not be helpful for your side of the argument.  Ben Roethlisberger has 13 playoff wins in that 2005-present span I noted.  Aaron Rodgers has 10.  Russell Wilson has 9.  Drew Brees has 8.  Mahomes already has 4.  Poke fun at Eli Manning all you want, but he is likely going to the HOF, even if his pass rush had as much to do with his playoff success as he did.  

Sure, there are other instances of bad or mediocre QB's making playoff runs.  But the only sustainable success has come for teams with consistent franchise QB play.  There's a reason the Patriots, Steelers, Seahawks, Packers and Saints have had sustained success over the last 1.5 decades (or 8 years, in Seattle's case).  In Green Bay's case they won their Super Bowl in SPITE of bad coaching out of Mike McCarthy.  All of those teams have been making deep playoff runs time and again because of QB play.  

If it really is primarily about coaching and the rest of the roster, and not primarily the QB....why is Bill Belichick struggling so badly without Tom Brady?  And why did Pete Carroll and the Seahawks suck so much prior to Russell Wilson's arrival?

You overweight the importance of having a great QB. Period stop. 

You need the person playing QB to play well. You do not need a HoF playing the position.

Eli Manning is only going to the HoF because he won 2 SBs. The Giants did not win 2 SBs because Eli Manning was an elite QB. 

Payton Manning is one of the greatest QBs of all time and his 2nd and last SB he won as a very average (at best) game manager. He was pretty brutal that year.

The Patriots roster this year is a joke. If Adam Gase was their coach they would be 0-13. They took a swing w Cam. Didn't work out. But what was BB's record the year Brady was hurt or on suspension.

It's a coach's league. If we get a good one we will be ok. If we don't, Trevor Lawrence aint going to help us

 

 

[Rhg1084]

2 hours ago, bitonti said:

with that amazing comment You've changed MY MIND! 

let's lose these next 3 games, and throw in the next 16 too 

 

 

Let me ask you a serious question, and be honest. Do you think this franchise is better off winning the next 3 games, or losing the next 3 games? 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

49 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

What ever you want to call it. I totally don't care about this team and see no reason to think they will handle whoever the next QB is any differently than the way we handled Darnold unless we hire Daboll

 That is about the only thing that will excite me at this point. 

Who is the "they" that will mess up Lawrence?  The entire coaching staff will be gone.  The Johnson's don't develop QBs.  Either does Douglas, who was the first GM to draft an OL and a WR that will help the QB. The prior FO was enamored with defensive tackles and safeties.  Is the "they" the people who clean the building in Florham Park?  The ticket staff?  

Why do people think that Jets failures of past years and past coaching staffs and GMs mean future failure?  The Red Sox lost for 100 years....until they 2004 and then what happened?  The Steelers were the worst NFL franchise before the 70s.  The Patriots were a joke before 2001.  The Saints were a mess before 2006.  I could go on and on.  Did the Browns 1-31 record limit their ability to win this season?  

[Rhg1084]

2 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Who is the "they" that will mess up Lawrence?  The entire coaching staff will be gone.  The Johnson's don't develop QBs.  Either does Douglas, who was the first GM to draft an OL and a WR that will help the QB. The prior FO was enamored with defensive tackles and safeties.  Is the "they" the people who clean the building in Florham Park?  The ticket staff?  

Why do people think that Jets failures of past years and past coaching staffs and GMs mean future failure?  The Red Sox lost for 100 years....until they 2004 and then what happened?  The Steelers were the worst NFL franchise before the 70s.  The Patriots were a joke before 2001.  The Saints were a mess before 2006.  I could go on and on.  Did the Browns 1-31 record limit their ability to win this season?  

Exactly, we just gotta get the right people in here 

[SAM SAM HE'S OUR MAN]

5 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

Travis Kelce is a dumb ****. 

I care about his pontification on team culture as I do about my wife's evaluation of Mekhi Becton.

Edit:. So is Jason Kelce.  Their parents are probably cousins.

We pay his salary . SHUT UP KELCE

[Lupz27]

47 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. 
They moved from #8 to #2 in 2016.

...giving up a 1 (#8), 3 (#77), 5 (#100), first round (2017), second round (2018).

...the Browns traded the 2017 first round pick to HOU (Deshaun Watson), and got a later first round (2017), and HOU first round (2018), which was #4 overall. 

Can you imagine if PHI was able to land Wentz by staying put? Like, he was just there when their pick came up, and they didn’t need to trade away what became two 1st round picks, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 5th?  

They could have had their stud QB and all of those picks to draft talent to surround him with. 
——

It’s going to be like that, but without having to do anything. 

Could have been like that years ago for the Jets if they just draft Mahomes 

[Biggs]

The Jets aren't just tanking for 1 player.  The Jets have accumulated a boat load of draft picks and cap money.  They aren't trading picks for the No. 1 draft pick.  They aren't trying to trade up a bunch of guys for the third choice like they did 3 years ago.  This upcoming draft isn't just about the QB.  This upcoming draft is a chance to reload the team for the next several years.  

The Suck for Sam was nothing like the Tank for Trevor.  Sam was one of 4 QB's coming out not including Jackson who all could have gone No. 1.  The Jets were at the mercy of the Browns and the Giants.   We sucked for Mac's sloppy seconds including giving away picks.  Sam just fell to us.  

This year is different.  We are loaded with picks, loaded with cash and if this tank finishes we are getting our choice of QB hopefully drafted by a very competent GM.  

This choice will be on our GM.  The Jets future will be on our GM, not the Browns not the Giants.  We will have a boatload of good picks to put in place around Lawrence and we will have a wide open wallet.  Tank for Trevor is about changing the culture and more importantly changing the talent pool on this team going forward.  

You play to win the game is nice.  The goal is to consistently put a playoff team on the field, make the playoffs regularly and be healthy and good enough to make a run and take home a LV or two.  That takes a lot of very good players and a very good QB. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Eagles are 4-8-1. This week all-Pro center Jason Kelce addressed the fans who wanted the team to lose for better draft position. 

 

RE: Tank for Trevor 

 

 

You kind of lose credibility when you compare tanking for a franchise QB to tanking for the 8th pick vs the 9th pick. 

Regardless, many of the players know that their future in the league is limited so they don't care about draft picks they care about winning TODAY. You think Frank Gore cares about the Jets success in 2021? He is more likely to be a grandfather next year than be on an NFL roster. 

[ZachEY]

4 hours ago, shuler82 said:

How did the 6-2 finish last year help the Jets culture in 2020? How did it help Gase or Darnold or prevent CJ Mosley from opting out? 

I would like an answer to this...

@bitonti

Anything?

[RutgersJetFan]

29 minutes ago, Lupz27 said:

Could have been like that years ago for the Jets if they just draft Mahomes 

This is 100% true, which is why it's necessary the Jets tank. When they are put in a position to actually make decisions, they make bad ones. The only solution is to put yourself into a position where there is no decision to make.

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

This is 100% true, which is why it's necessary the Jets tank. When they are put in a position to actually make decisions, they make bad ones. The only solution is to put yourself into a position where there is no decision to make.

Just to add: Does anyone in here actually trust this godforsaken organization to make a good decision with yet another non-1 top 6 pick? Look at the ******* track record. The normal jagaloons are out in full force yet again saying the Jets will get a good player regardless, but WHEN DOES THAT EVER HAPPEN.