On Rooting for Losses

[Lupz27]

27 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

He is more likely to be a grandfather next year than be on an NFL roster.

Love it!

[HighPitch]

6 hours ago, bitonti said:

The best interest of the team is to win games 

Omg. 
so were 3 losses away from TL. 3 wins would benefit us more than Acquiring TL?

get off your high horse son. Your turning into sore1’s Little brother just slightly less funny

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

30 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The Jets aren't just tanking for 1 player.  The Jets have accumulated a boat load of draft picks and cap money.  They aren't trading picks for the No. 1 draft pick.  They aren't trying to trade up a bunch of guys for the third choice like they did 3 years ago.  This upcoming draft isn't just about the QB.  This upcoming draft is a chance to reload the team for the next several years.  

The Suck for Sam was nothing like the Tank for Trevor.  Sam was one of 4 QB's coming out not including Jackson who all could have gone No. 1.  The Jets were at the mercy of the Browns and the Giants.   We sucked for Mac's sloppy seconds including giving away picks.  Sam just fell to us.  

This year is different.  We are loaded with picks, loaded with cash and if this tank finishes we are getting our choice of QB hopefully drafted by a very competent GM.  

This choice will be on our GM.  The Jets future will be on our GM, not the Browns not the Giants.  We will have a boatload of good picks to put in place around Lawrence and we will have a wide open wallet.  Tank for Trevor is about changing the culture and more importantly changing the talent pool on this team going forward.  

You play to win the game is nice.  The goal is to consistently put a playoff team on the field, make the playoffs regularly and be healthy and good enough to make a run and take home a LV or two.  That takes a lot of very good players and a very good QB. 

This is a great post.  The Jets are at a major crossroads and have three big decisions/opportunities coming in early 2021 that could and should determine the future of the team over the next decade.  The first, in chronological order, will be to hire a new coaching staff.  This needs to be a transformational hire - similar to bringing Parcells here in 97.  A coach with name value/winning pedigree (Harbaugh?) if possible and one who can change the culture and develop players and QBs. The second is free agency. With a boatload of $$$, Douglas needs to make some smart signings to lift the talent level of the roster in those areas where he thinks the draft is weak in the first two rounds.  Lastly, there is the draft where, hopefully, the Jets draft a franchise QB in Lawrence and then Douglas hits on the other picks to infuse this team with much needed talent.  That is the trifecta that this needed. And its not a 1 year turnaround.  The coaching staff needs to make progress and the Jets need a few good drafts in a row.  

[HighPitch]

5 hours ago, shuler82 said:

How did the 6-2 finish last year help the Jets culture in 2020? How did it help Gase or Darnold or prevent CJ Mosley from opting out? 
 

I’m rooting for 0-16, the top prospect in the draft and cleaning house with the coaching staff. Something tells me that will have more significance on the Jets 2022 prospects and beyond over a win or two now that allegedly helps ‘team culture’.  

Omg why cant bitonti see this holy f

[HighPitch]

Like if we win the next 3 suddenly we can all drive to a tulip field, stick thorns in our asses hold hands and sing uplifting hyms

culture change baby! Get on the bus

[freestater]

I'm not rooting for loses so much as I'm rooting for the other team to win. 

[Rhg1084]

This year has nothing to do with next year anyway. Gonna be anew coach, new qb, and probably 20-30 new guys on the team. The argument that winning games this year to promote culture change going into next year is ridiculous. When you add it to the expense of possibly losing Trevor Lawrence? Now we’re in lunacy talk 

[slimjasi]

That's cool. 

I'll root for whoever I want, considering that it has no effect on the outcome, anyway.

The current Jets players can worry about winning meaningless games in December - I'm worried about the next decade worth of Sunday afternoons and all of the precious time I waste watching and thinking about this terrible football team.

Maybe getting the right player can change things for the better, in the long run.  And, if not, oh well. My rooting interests still will not have made one iota of difference. 

[slimjasi]

I have a question - What happened to the automatic "culture change" from finishing 6-2 last year? Did we put the code in wrong or something? Reverse jinx?

[Biggs]

5 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I have a question - What happened to the automatic "culture change" from finishing 6-2 last year? Did we put the code in wrong or something? Reverse jinx?

There was a culture change on our opponents.  This year the teams we play have better players. 

[Biggs]

24 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This is a great post.  The Jets are at a major crossroads and have three big decisions/opportunities coming in early 2021 that could and should determine the future of the team over the next decade.  The first, in chronological order, will be to hire a new coaching staff.  This needs to be a transformational hire - similar to bringing Parcells here in 97.  A coach with name value/winning pedigree (Harbaugh?) if possible and one who can change the culture and develop players and QBs. The second is free agency. With a boatload of $$$, Douglas needs to make some smart signings to lift the talent level of the roster in those areas where he thinks the draft is weak in the first two rounds.  Lastly, there is the draft where, hopefully, the Jets draft a franchise QB in Lawrence and then Douglas hits on the other picks to infuse this team with much needed talent.  That is the trifecta that this needed. And its not a 1 year turnaround.  The coaching staff needs to make progress and the Jets need a few good drafts in a row.  

We can reload fast if our GM is the real deal.  We don't need to make trades and hope guys fall to us.  We need to scout the crap out of the draft and FA pool.  We control our own destiny.  It's really up to Douglas.  I have zero confidence in Howard, Gabby, Olsen or Reverend Johnson to make any decision to move the team forward.  Hopefully they get out of the way and Douglas has the right stuff to get us a top coaching staff and a big, competitive talent pool to put something resembling a smart, tough football team on the field.  This is a sh*t show but it was the perfect year to be a sh*t show.  

[More Cowbell]

2 hours ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Who is the "they" that will mess up Lawrence?  The entire coaching staff will be gone.  The Johnson's don't develop QBs.  Either does Douglas, who was the first GM to draft an OL and a WR that will help the QB. The prior FO was enamored with defensive tackles and safeties.  Is the "they" the people who clean the building in Florham Park?  The ticket staff?  

Why do people think that Jets failures of past years and past coaching staffs and GMs mean future failure?  The Red Sox lost for 100 years....until they 2004 and then what happened?  The Steelers were the worst NFL franchise before the 70s.  The Patriots were a joke before 2001.  The Saints were a mess before 2006.  I could go on and on.  Did the Browns 1-31 record limit their ability to win this season?  

Because the Johnsons still own the team and every move we have made in their tenure has sucked. With JD I would say he is batting in the 200s. I don't see any FA pickups and any drafts picks sticking except Becton and Mims so I am not even sure how long he will last. 

I want to see Daboll be hired. He is the most logical choice. If they hire anyone else, I will most likely think we will just ruin another QB. 

[Gangrene]

We need a culture changer in control but ultimately it is about the players. Gase sucked in Miami but he sucked much worse in New York because we have a fraud of a roster.

Players and coaches want to win? Fine, great...go win and we will begin to cheer for more wins.

Fans need to justify to themselves their interest in what is, a historically bad team...the Jets are currently an awful football team to watch. If a fan wishes for losses because the draft is all we have left to care about, why criticize the fan?

 Perverse? yes but we are not apathetic...we still give a damn because nothing else has worked, rooting for wins, changing players, changing GMs, changing coaches? We can't change owners.

We attempt to rationalize our ridiculous obsession as fans...in return the Jets organization have left us a long trail of multi-millionaire ex-GMs and ex-coaches. We are the ones being played here, what we wish to root for is the one minutia we can control.

From February onwards we dig deep into the draft class and get super excited about a few hours in April. If we were given a semblance of a football team, if we were given a GM who does not think that Pierre Desir is a legitimate option at starting cornerback in the NFL, we might be excited during a football season.

 

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, HighPitch said:

Omg. 
so were 3 losses away from TL. 3 wins would benefit us more than Acquiring TL?

get off your high horse son. Your turning into sore1’s Little brother just slightly less funny

I want zero wins like it is the SB.  Not only for Lawrence but I want it on Woodys record.  

[GREENBEAN]

That should absolutely be the case for the players and coaches. Me?   I can do whatever the F I want. And if I want the Jets to lose I will root that way. 

Everyone can eat a bag of d*cks! 

With all love and tenderness 

[Irish Jet]

Yeah the Jets winning the next 3 games will be the culture change we’ve been looking for.

[MichaelScott]

9 hours ago, bitonti said:

with that amazing comment You've changed MY MIND! 

let's lose these next 3 games, and throw in the next 16 too 

 

 

Your argument has no legs to stand on man, its rolling around on the floor pitifully. Just let it go. 

[adb280z]

You want fans to stop rooting for losses during a lost season?  Then make the draft a full lottery among all non-playoff teams.  Not weighted at all.  All the teams not in the playoffs have the same shot at #1 overall.  If that happened fans wouldn't root for losses.  But the way things are now when the draft has been made into a 3 day event with months of coverage beforehand then of course fans will root for what they think is in the longterm best interests of their team.  

 

[Jetsfan80]

22 hours ago, y2k8 said:

You overweight the importance of having a great QB. Period stop. 

You need the person playing QB to play well. You do not need a HoF playing the position.

Eli Manning is only going to the HoF because he won 2 SBs. The Giants did not win 2 SBs because Eli Manning was an elite QB. 

Payton Manning is one of the greatest QBs of all time and his 2nd and last SB he won as a very average (at best) game manager. He was pretty brutal that year.

The Patriots roster this year is a joke. If Adam Gase was their coach they would be 0-13. They took a swing w Cam. Didn't work out. But what was BB's record the year Brady was hurt or on suspension.

It's a coach's league. If we get a good one we will be ok. If we don't, Trevor Lawrence aint going to help us

Coaching matters.  But its silly not to accept that its at least a 60/40 split in favor of the QB in that partnership.  Good coaches can't take sh*t QB's and make them good.  Belichick can't manufacture offense out of one-foot-in-retirement Cam Newton.  Meanwhile, Peyton Manning had a record-setting QB season with Adam Gase as his OC.  Gase had nothing to do with that.  Just like Aaron Rodgers succeeded in spite of Mike McCarthy.  Dak Prescott was on a similar path with McCarthy before getting hurt.  There are countless examples that indicate the QB means more than the coach.  

And one of the biggest reasons you need the QB first?  QB's attract quality HC's.  It doesn't work the other way around.  No matter how good Kyle Shanahan is at running an offense, he can't recruit a quality QB to the 49ers.  They have to find one in the draft.  And while he did get to a Super Bowl with Jimmy Garoppolo, that success isn't sustainable.  Franchises can have success for over a decade with a solid QB, regardless of who the HC is. 

[redlichtie]

On 12/17/2020 at 5:10 PM, bitonti said:

i wish people who had these perfect hypothetical knowledge of the future would share their insights with me 

do the Jets cover 17 points this week? will that cut on  my thumb ever heal? tell us nostradamus

when people say they are 2-14 as a ceiling so they might as well tank that's a prediction based on what exactly? wishes and dreams? 

I could easily say the Jets are 14-2 with Adams on the roster and we are both bringing the same amount of evidence 

Agree with you Bitonti, when they eventually get back to you with the winning state lottery numbers I suspect it’ll be sometime after the draw was made.

To your general point, the whole concept of losing on purpose is so utterly dubious but it’s hard not to be drawn into that race to the bottom when you have a draft system such as there is in the NFL. Maybe a lottery is the way to go, no guaranteed reward for failure and futility....let’s just do it next year please ??

I totally agree that those pinning it all on Trevor Lawrence are likely setting themselves up for more agony, at this point I’m not even sold he’ll be the best QB available in April but even if he is who’s blocking for him? whose running the football? Who’s he throwing to? Who’s rushing the passer etc etc 

it remains a team game, we need a roster full of talent and a coaching staff capable of bringing the best out of that talent and building a winning culture and mentality. Maybe we get the No 1 pick, select TL and he turns out be the real deal but deliberately losing is not the answer. 

[LIJetsFan]

23 hours ago, More Cowbell said:

What ever you want to call it. I totally don't care about this team and see no reason to think they will handle whoever the next QB is any differently than the way we handled Darnold unless we hire Daboll

 That is about the only thing that will excite me at this point. 

A serious question if I may.  Do you mean this team under Gase, or this team with Sam under center, or this team as a franchise?

As for me, if I didn't care I wouldn't be here.  Just looking for clarity here.    

[LIJetsFan]

21 hours ago, slimjasi said:

I have a question - What happened to the automatic "culture change" from finishing 6-2 last year? Did we put the code in wrong or something? Reverse jinx?

Actually (and I know I could be dead wrong) I think the players are playing hard so culture isn't really the issue.  I think they know we have an in over his head HC and are suffering through a losing season admirably.    

[Jetster]

22 minutes ago, redlichtie said:

Agree with you Bitonti, when they eventually get back to you with the winning state lottery numbers I suspect it’ll be sometime after the draw was made.

To your general point, the whole concept of losing on purpose is so utterly dubious but it’s hard not to be drawn into that race to the bottom when you have a draft system such as there is in the NFL. Maybe a lottery is the way to go, no guaranteed reward for failure and futility....let’s just do it next year please ??

I totally agree that those pinning it all on Trevor Lawrence are likely setting themselves up for more agony, at this point I’m not even sold he’ll be the best QB available in April but even if he is who’s blocking for him? whose running the football? Who’s he throwing to? Who’s rushing the passer etc etc 

it remains a team game, we need a roster full of talent and a coaching staff capable of bringing the best out of that talent and building a winning culture and mentality. Maybe we get the No 1 pick, select TL and he turns out be the real deal but deliberately losing is not the answer. 

Joe Douglas will have 100 million, and 9 or possibly more draft picks to find guys to block for him, to throw the ball to & to rush the passer. 
That’s why we’re excited to lose the next 3 weeks!

[ChuckkieB]

If there are any Jets fans out there who still thinks that a win or two has more value to the long term growth of this team than getting the #1 pick which lands the Jets a top shelf, once every 10 years blue chip QB prospect, this is why I weep for humanity.

 

P.S.  - 90% of the players that experience the wonderful "growth" and "learning" that comes with a meaningless late season victory won't be on the team in 2 years.

[pdxgreen]

Three more losses and you won't have to worry about me rooting for losses anymore.  It's that simple.

[Greenseed4]

22 hours ago, slimjasi said:

That's cool. 

I'll root for whoever I want, considering that it has no effect on the outcome, anyway.

The current Jets players can worry about winning meaningless games in December - I'm worried about the next decade worth of Sunday afternoons and all of the precious time I waste watching and thinking about this terrible football team.

Maybe getting the right player can change things for the better, in the long run.  And, if not, oh well. My rooting interests still will not have made one iota of difference. 

You must not be rooting correctly. 

[More Cowbell]

5 hours ago, LIJetsFan said:

A serious question if I may.  Do you mean this team under Gase, or this team with Sam under center, or this team as a franchise?

As for me, if I didn't care I wouldn't be here.  Just looking for clarity here.    

This year I really don't care. And it isn't Gase, Darnold, or the Franchise, it is the owners. The Johnsons have screwed everything up since they ha E been here

[fullblast]

4 hours ago, ChuckkieB said:

If there are any Jets fans out there who still thinks that a win or two has more value to the long term growth of this team than getting the #1 pick which lands the Jets a top shelf, once every 10 years blue chip QB prospect, this is why I weep for humanity.

 

P.S.  - 90% of the players that experience the wonderful "growth" and "learning" that comes with a meaningless late season victory won't be on the team in 2 years.

Not sure what you're on about, I'm still buzzing off of that 6-2 finish last year.

[jamesr]

Of course a player is going to take this point of view. Guys putting their body on the line every week, who arent guaranteed to be part of that team long term, don't give a damn about draft picks, nor should they. 
Fans, and front office people who's job it is to build over time have the luxury of being able to look logically at the future. 
Its plain and simple logic. The best PROSPECT (hense, player with the best projected chance at helping your team) is at the front of the draft. The goal of a season is to make the playoffs. If you are not in the playoffs, the scenario that gives you the best CHANCE of improving your team going forward, is loses in order to have a better chance at the best projected player. 
It's that simple. Winning the rest of the games this year does absolutely NOTHING to help you next year.
Your argument has absolutely no merits. And if you still want to go back and forth, I will point you to none other than our own Sam Darnold. If we hadn't won that game that season, we could have drafted Sam WITHOUT giving up all those second round picks to move up. That win, which did absolutely nothing to change the outcome of that season, cost us valuable draft capital. Thus, in conclusion, the Jets would have been significantly better off had they LOST that game. 
Also, how did winning those games at the end of last year work out for us? Did they contribute to a "winning culture" that carried us into this year? It did NOTHING for us.  If you look at it with some very simple basic logic you can see that losing those games would have produced more valuable draft capital for this year. 
If you're not in the playoffs, than it's all about next year. The only difference between 7-8 wins and 0-2 wins is that the latter puts you in a better position to acquire the talent that might help you win next year. 
/thread. 

So why are 31 teams going out there to win games this weekend?

Jets is debatable so I left them off.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[jamesr]

So here's a question.

Assume we lose out, draft The Messiah ... then what? Are we playoff bound, Superbowl contenders?

Let's for a moment assume no. Let's for a moment assume that 6-10 or something along those lines would be a good achievement.

In that case, why would we root for wins? Why not root for another year of losses, great draft position again, and REALLY build that super-duper roster that of course it's playoff bound / Superbowl contenders?

And so on ...

At some point those meaningless wins have got to start meaning something. I'm not talking about this year, I've utterly given up, but if we start out 0-6 next year is everyone going to want to tank again? Or would some "meaningless" wins be better?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Wonderboy]

On 12/17/2020 at 11:46 AM, bitonti said:

The best interest of the team is to win games 

Exactly- which is why we must collectively root to lose the next 3 games in order to be in a position to win games. This ain’t rocket science.

[MichaelScott]

52 minutes ago, jamesr said:

So why are 31 teams going out there to win games this weekend?

Jets is debatable so I left them off.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 

Well, the vast number of them still have a mathematical chance at the playoffs. Understand the difference?

[DetroitRed]

You can’t begin to create a winning culture with Gase in charge.  So that’s completely moot

[Jets723]

Personally I can’t root for my team to lose.  If we get Lawrence I would be happy but I don’t spend 3 hours on Sunday rooting for the other team to win.  I’m not trying to say I’m a better or worse fan.  It’s just the way I am.  From the players standpoint they Are competitors and they want to help their own future in the league so of course they want to Win.

[Jetster]

31 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Personally I can’t root for my team to lose.  If we get Lawrence I would be happy but I don’t spend 3 hours on Sunday rooting for the other team to win.  I’m not trying to say I’m a better or worse fan.  It’s just the way I am.  From the players standpoint they Are competitors and they want to help their own future in the league so of course they want to Win.

I really don't believe this at this point. Bless Austin got a penalty last week after frustration, guys are opting out with hangnails, and there are 6-7 locks on this team to be returning next year. The starting QB is GONE if the Jets get the top pick. The WRs have a lot of experience running free & seeing their QB not even see them. The Oline is blocking for a 37 year old RB that runs for 2.8 yards & falls down. The entire secondary has to try & defend players for 10 seconds as the Jets pass rush is worst in the league. There isn't one guy on this team left that believes they can compete at this point! Every week another 2 guys go to IR. 

You don't think players here the chatter? If I'm a guy that knows I'll be back, I'd want to be back with Trevor Wilson at the helm. I've seen Darnold & realize he's as good as gone! As are 30 of the guys standing on that sideline. 2021 is going to be a huge transformation of this team just based on all the 1 year contracts. There aren't enough guys left that really give to sh*ts at this point. And the good ones? Just want to stay healthy & get through the season. A team like the Pats would have to lay down like dogs to lose to this Jet team at this point.