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What if Trevor Lawrence isn’t a stud pro?


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Just now, Jets723 said:

I think you are misinterpreting.  I am realistic.  I never painted a rosy picture.  

Realism is based on evidence. You decline to share any regarding why you think Darnold is a secret FQB in disguise. That is the realm of hope. Which, again, is fine. 

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If he doesn’t come to Jets he will be amazing and we all know it

What if he’s just a kinda talented player in an ultra comfy spot? I’m not saying he will suck or anything (unless we draft him lol). Just that if this was the identical situation 3 years prior, p

Even if Lawrence isn't the goods, the # 1 pick carried weight with it.  I truly think today's result will have a tangible, negative impact on the pool of coaches available to the Jets come January/Feb

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6 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

Yes I am a glass half full guy.  I have frustrations like anybody.  But being ******* miserable is a horrible way to live 

This is your problem. Just because we aren't a homer, doesn't mean we are miserable. We know what was lost today and aren't covering it up with sour grapes rationalization. Reality is, this team just lost A huge opportunity to draft the highest rated player they would've ever drafted. We don't need you in every thread telling us everything will be ok. 

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Just now, jgb said:

Realism is based on evidence. You decline to share any regarding why you think Darnold is a secret FQB in disguise. That is the realm of hope. Which, again, is fine. 

I am realistic.  I never called Sam great.  I have pointed out his issues time and time again.  I just don’t think it’s fair to just say he sucks without looking at this whole dreadful situation.  But whatever man I don’t care.  You can keep calling me young and naive but that’s bullsh;t.  I have been fair and realistic.  It’s not like I’m saying this team is in its way to the playoffs anytime soon 😂 

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1 minute ago, Gramsci said:

Did anything related to Darnold's performance in his first two years indicated that his production wasn't sustainable? 

He wasn't good in his first two years. 

He showed flashes of maybe/possibly being good. But he was never close to consistently good. And this year, he's been the worst starter in the league, give or take. 

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1 minute ago, LockeJET said:

This is your problem. Just because we aren't a homer, doesn't mean we are miserable. We know what was lost today and aren't covering it up with sour grapes rationalization. Reality is, this team just lost A huge opportunity to draft the highest rated player they would've ever drafted. We don't need you in every thread telling us everything will be ok. 

I have no problem.  I have a right to feel like I do just like you have a right to feel the way you do.  Period cut and dry. No need to keep this discussion going. Take Care 

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37 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This has been bothering me for the past month or so. It really is ****ed up that we would have had to go winless to get the top pick—that one single win has basically torpedoed any hope we might have had. Cincinnati won twice last year and got the top pick, and Arizona won three times and got it the year before that. I know this is a whiny thing to say, but it really is just terribly unfair.

You and me both. 0-13, easily among the worst teams in history and enduring blowout loss after blowout in the middle of a god damn global pandemic, and we have to be on the edge of our seats rooting for them to lose on the rare occasions it’s even worth watching a game past half time. Any other team in any other year gets to “celebrate” their first win of the year at this point in the season. When I say “only the Jets”, it’s literally ONLY THE JETS. As in, every other 1-15 team in history earned the number one pick.

And yeah, you’re right, it’s whiny. As is saying point differential should really be the tiebreaker (it should). But I think at this point we’re allowed to whine a little bit.

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5 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

  It’s not like I’m saying this team is in its way to the playoffs anytime soon 😂 

Adding Lawrence would've sped this up big time! That's realistic! More realistic then telling us every second that everything's ok. 50 years of dog sh*t, yet in your mind everything's ok. 

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49 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

This has been bothering me for the past month or so. It really is ****ed up that we would have had to go winless to get the top pick—that one single win has basically torpedoed any hope we might have had. Cincinnati won twice last year and got the top pick, and Arizona won three times and got it the year before that. I know this is a whiny thing to say, but it really is just terribly unfair.

This. 

Especially since we have clearly been worse than the Jags for the majority of the season. It still feels like we are obviously the worst team. It's just brutal. 

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2 minutes ago, Jets723 said:

I am realistic.  I never called Sam great.  I have pointed out his issues time and time again.  I just don’t think it’s fair to just say he sucks without looking at this whole dreadful situation.  But whatever man I don’t care.  You can keep calling me young and naive but that’s bullsh;t.  I have been fair and realistic.  It’s not like I’m saying this team is in its way to the playoffs anytime soon 😂 

I wasn’t insulting you. I thought you were young. Obviously I was wrong. Then I praised your ability to stay optimistic. I genuinely hoped you’d put down some arguments that could persuade me to have some hope for Darnold.

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8 minutes ago, jgb said:

I wasn’t insulting you. I thought you were young. Obviously I was wrong. Then I praised your ability to stay optimistic. I genuinely hoped you’d put down some arguments that could persuade me to have some hope for Darnold.

There are none. He's flawed. Same flaws he had at USC. Biggest thing is he can't read defenses. That's not coachable. He also has terrible foot work, happy feet, lacks on his deep ball, holds on to the ball to long, has 0 pre snap awareness, still runs out of bounds and takes losses instead of throwing away and he throws at least 1 terrible pick a game it seems. He's flawed. Maybe not as bad as this year but he'll never carry a team like a franchise guy should. He's always played this way. 

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Just now, LockeJET said:

There are none. He's flawed. Same flaws he had at USC. Biggest thing is he can't read defenses. That's not coachable. He also has terrible foot work, happy feet, lacks on his deep ball, holds on to the ball to long, has 0 pre snap awareness, still runs out of bounds and takes losses instead of throwing away and he throws at least 1 terrible pick a game it seems. He's flawed. Maybe not as bad as this year but we'll never carry a team like a franchise guy should. He's always played this way. 

Yep, that’s how I see it. Every argument in his favor points out things beyond his control—his coaches, his supporting cast, etc. — haven’t seen one person make the case for Darnold based on what he has actually done.

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9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yes

What exactly? Because from everyone I've read and watched, the consensus was that Darnold's statistics were consistent with his ability and supporting cast. 

I'm not really sure who anticipated such a catastrophic year.

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Well I think you could tell darnold.sucked.after.his rookie year, but you.cpuld pretend not to see it because it was.too painful to accept.

After last season it was VERY obvious he didn't have it, but still too early for most of the fan base to accept.


This year obviously seals the deal, and even his performance today is as horrible, it could be replicated by any jag.

What exactly? Because from everyone I've read and watched, the consensus was that Darnold's statistics were consistent with his ability and supporting cast. 
I'm not really sure who anticipated such a catastrophic year.


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5 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

What if he’s just a kinda talented player in an ultra comfy spot?

I’m not saying he will suck or anything (unless we draft him lol). Just that if this was the identical situation 3 years prior, people would be just as apoplectic about blowing it & missing out on sure thing Sam Darnold “the best prospect since Andrew Luck” & stuff. Suck for Sam, remember?

No I wasn’t rooting for a Jets win today. But put aside the final draft order isn’t set yet — until the dust settles in a year or two it’s not known that he’s the best QB in this draft, or even second best for that matter, regardless of whether he’s taken 1st overall in April. 

 

At this point there’s been very little actual scrutiny of Lawrence or indeed any draft prospects. That only really comes once the season ends. 

The majority of people are going off the numbers and being wowed because for sure everything about TL is impressive but it’s once you start to dig deeper into his play that we’ll start to get a clearer picture. The scout who described Darnold as a ‘cow on ice’ was in the minority but turned out he was right. 

Has Lawrence ever been put under pressure? how has he coped? how many passes does he complete that go more then about 5 yards? how many times has he put the team on his back and gutted out a tough win? how much is the well-oiled Clemson machine a factor in making all those guys in orange look other-worldly?

I’m not saying the answer to any of these questions is that TL isn’t the gold star prospect he’s being made out to be because he sure looks impressive and ticks so many boxes but the vast majority of people simply haven’t looked deeper into him than simply noting he’s the prototype size, can run as well as any QB not named Kyler and has only ever lost 1 game.....all amazing but does that translate if you put him into our line-up?

I personally think Zach Wilson looks fantastic and makes some sensational, difficult throws into the tightest of windows. Sure the level of competition is not as tough as Lawrence is going up against but to me Wilson answers a lot of the type of questions that NFL evaluators will ask. He’s not 6-6 and isn’t on an unstoppable champion team but I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson turns out to be the better actual player at NFL level 

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6 hours ago, Gramsci said:

What exactly? Because from everyone I've read and watched, the consensus was that Darnold's statistics were consistent with his ability and supporting cast. 

I'm not really sure who anticipated such a catastrophic year.

Consensus isn’t unanimity. Many of us here were sounding the alarm bells. Good players play good football. Even allowing that Darnold’s supporting cast wasn’t strong, he has shown nothing to indicate he can be more than he is. He’s the same guy as in college: terrible footwork, locks onto receivers, doesn’t know how to step up in the pocket, throws the deep ball with no confidence,  boneheaded turnovers, etc. A potential FQB demonstrates greatness even if only in spurts despite a bad cast. At best, Darnold has (few) spurts of competent play. Our expectations are so low we have people talking about how he's "flashing" when he has a game without a turnover. That's not flashing. Flashing it putting the team on his back and delivering. Think about a time when he’s taken over a game. Got into the zone and willed his team to victory. Got anything? Me neither. It’s not nearly enough to inspire hope IMHO.

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I don’t know. It certainly seems like the jets just lost the Lawrence derby and now there seems to be some sour grapes. For sure there is no guarantee Lawrence would be the franchise QBs. It’s probably silly to think that way.  He may be great for some teams but only average for others. It all depends on the coaches and the surrounding players.  I will say that it appears that drafting this guy made all the sense in the world for the jets.  Yeah, darnold won a game.  That’s great but it’s still only one game. We’ll just have see what happens. It’s not like they still can’t continue to build a really good team starting with the second pick in this draft.

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