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Bengals win last night was HUGE


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100 agree  was thinking the same thing.   I for one would love to trade back 3 spots and take Penei,  I was hoping Cincy.. won.  Because they want Penei ..    and then trade back up for Zach Wilson.   Think he's better then Fields. 

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If you don't want Fields and would rather take Sewell last night was potentially game changing. If the Bengals can beat the Texans next weekend (or pull out another miracle and beat the Ravens we

Wilson is definitely overtaking him as the #2 QB. Zach Wilson...the petite Marcy D’Arcy lookalike who has already torn up his throwing shoulder. To hell with taking a QB. Either grab Sewell

Fields played so poorly last week I'm not sure if he's a first Rd pick anymore He looked like Geno Smith 

On 12/22/2020 at 9:42 AM, bitonti said:

The tok tik would be excusable if he did not fumble

He folded like a house of cards 

One game v career, one game v career, one game v career, one game v career, one game v career, one game v career, etc

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

One game v career, one game v career, one game v career, one game v career, one game v career, one game v career, etc

there's a saying in the stock market

past performance doesn't guarantee future returns 

we can mutter about his career all you want (brought to you by Carl's Jr) all that matters is what form is he in right now and what is he doing right now

if this is JuJu without a contract, I don't want to see JuJu once he's paid in full 

 

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1 hour ago, Wonderboy said:

You trade back with Bengals at 3 and steal a pick. Hopefully they bite. If not you just take your QB.  Panthers are taking a QB so you don't want to trade back any further than that.

You could or should do that if you want a QB.  Cincy isn’t picking a QB, you gain a pick(s) and get whichever QB you want not named Lawrence at 3

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12 minutes ago, bitonti said:

there's a saying in the stock market

past performance doesn't guarantee future returns 

we can mutter about his career all you want (brought to you by Carl's Jr) all that matters is what form is he in right now and what is he doing right now

if this is JuJu without a contract, I don't want to see JuJu once he's paid in full 

 

This isn’t the stock market in any way shape or form.  
You want to argue that one game is more important than 3 years worth of history, go for it

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4 hours ago, bitonti said:

The Jets can draft Sewell and keep Becton until both retire let's start with that. They have more than enough free cap space to make that happen 

But let's pretend that they don't. If they trade Becton in year 5 for another first Rd pick (or more) that's also a jd friendly outcome 

The worst outcome, which you seem to endorse, is take a bust qb or pass rusher at 2 because it's a need? 

The bird in the hand, bro. All this talk about what they do in 26 assumes this player has value. 

Other than TL, Sewell is that most valuable resource. 

There's no trade down, there's no other moves to make. You take either TL or Sewell

to do otherwise is an obvious reach / likely bust 

 

Also you can't find the quote about Warmack cause it doesn't exist. Google and archive. Org you won't find it 

They have more than enough cap space now. The idea is to draft well beyond just Becton and Sewell, and if they don't then it doesn't matter who the tackles are anyway.

There is no historical occurrence of a team using ~25% of its cap space on its two starting tackles. And if those two will command elite LT money then that's what it'll come to. If they don't, then the exercise was stupid in the first place. 

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4 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

For what it's worth even if you couldn't keep both (I think you could) you could absolutely flip one of them for a Laremy Tunsil style haul. 

Not necessarily, and using the #2 overall pick to upgrade the RT position is still ridiculous to me anyway. 

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3 hours ago, Jetster said:

It's pretty awesome how many #1 draft picks are still on the New York Jets since 2010. The list is too long to print here. 

This is relevant how? Are the same people from 2010-2019 running the draft in 2021? If not then what Douglas does, and his ability to evaluate prospects, has zero relevance to the ability of GMs before him. 

If JD can't draft any better than Maccagnan or Idzik or late Tannenbaum, then none of this matters anyway. But one doesn't employ a dumb strategy today because prior GMs couldn't draft. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This is relevant how? Are the same people from 2010-2019 running the draft in 2021? If not then what Douglas does, and his ability to evaluate prospects, has zero relevance to the ability of GMs before him. 

If JD can't draft any better than Maccagnan or Idzik or late Tannenbaum, then none of this matters anyway. But one doesn't employ a dumb strategy today because prior GMs couldn't draft. 

 

Ohhh, so the only strategy that's NOT DUMB is something you come up with? Gotcha, maybe Max should strip you of your moderator handle then. 

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8 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Ohhh, so the only strategy that's NOT DUMB is something you come up with? Gotcha, maybe Max should strip you of your moderator handle then. 

No, the strategy that's not dumb is the ones that lead to SB wins. 

Burning the #2 pick to upgrade a non-premium position like RT is a dumb idea to me. 

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30 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

There is no historical occurrence of a team using ~25% of its cap space on its two starting tackles. And if those two will command elite LT money then that's what it'll come to. If they don't, then the exercise was stupid in the first place. 

one point which we always come against in these discussions (a point you NEVER seem to acknowledge) 

is that the cap always goes up 

now this Covid thing has given it a short term exception to that rule 

but the new TV deals are looking bigger than the last one

this idea of a cap in Sperm's head is like a hard cap 

i feel like you aren't pricing in the 10 percent or more it goes up in normal years 

all of this is to say you take a player in year 1 you get that benefit of the rookie deal in year 5/6 it gets tight (for the first time in Jets history since 2010) and then there's room again as the natural cap expansions occur

these cap increases are significant like 8-15 mil per season in a non covid year 

if you bake those increases into the recipe it's not 25% on tackles 

 

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3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

This isn’t the stock market in any way shape or form.  
You want to argue that one game is more important than 3 years worth of history, go for it

we dont get to pay for JuJu as he was in 2018 

the team that pays for him gets him as he now

the tik tok jerk who got blown up by the bengals 

 

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10 minutes ago, bitonti said:

we dont get to pay for JuJu as he was in 2018 

the team that pays for him gets him as he now

the tik tok jerk who got blown up by the bengals 

 

Because you see a different player?   I see a player who is part of a wider, talented group and is used differently than before.  Playing with a QB who now looks like a shell of what he was.  Its debatable who is the better FA acquisition,  its not debatable that he would upgrade the WR group here

The whole BS over his dance is amusing though.  Because now that was why the Bengals won?  How come no team that is "motivated" by a player ever talks about it the times they lost.  At 10-1 no one cared, now after a few losses they chirp.  

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9 minutes ago, bitonti said:

one point which we always come against in these discussions (a point you NEVER seem to acknowledge) 

is that the cap always goes up 

now this Covid thing has given it a short term exception to that rule 

but the new TV deals are looking bigger than the last one

this idea of a cap in Sperm's head is like a hard cap 

i feel like you aren't pricing in the 10 percent or more it goes up in normal years 

all of this is to say you take a player in year 1 you get that benefit of the rookie deal in year 5/6 it gets tight (for the first time in Jets history since 2010) and then there's room again as the natural cap expansions occur

these cap increases are significant like 8-15 mil per season in a non covid year 

if you bake those increases into the recipe it's not 25% on tackles 

 

No, I'm using today's numbers with the idea that their contracts will go up proportionately. If the top couple LT contracts are $22-23MM from 2020, and the cap ceiling was $198MM, it's nearly 25% of the team's cap regardless. Just to use easy math, if the cap went up to $250MM by the time they're in line for second contracts, then they wouldn't still be at $22-23MM they'd each be in the $27MM/year range (but still in the range of 22% of overall cap). 

Nobody does that. Nobody successful, anyway. 

If you can name a single team that has ever used nearly 1/4 of its cap ceiling on a pair of tackles I'd love to hear about it. It'd still be an extreme exception rather than the rule, but I'm not sure such an exception even exists.

Also I'm quite sure I understand the salary cap economics more than one who thinks a box safety is worth the $18MM/year or more that he wanted, plus forgoing a pair of 1st rounders for the privilege, on a team with a double-digit number of holes and upgrades needed.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

No, the strategy that's not dumb is the ones that lead to SB wins. 

Burning the #2 pick to upgrade a non-premium position like RT is a dumb idea to me. 

Well, seems your in the minority. None of these guys coming out after TL will be thrown to the Wolves by Joe Douglas. You make it seem Like we don’t have 8 more picks & close to 100 million dollars to spend. 
The only way pick #2 is a QB is if Justin Fields balls out on Jan. 1st. 
With the cap being substantially a lot lower this off-season draft picks are at a premium which means no one is giving up the farm to move into #2 when every QB after TL are crapshoots. 

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6 hours ago, Jetster said:

Well, seems your in the minority. None of these guys coming out after TL will be thrown to the Wolves by Joe Douglas. You make it seem Like we don’t have 8 more picks & close to 100 million dollars to spend. 
The only way pick #2 is a QB is if Justin Fields balls out on Jan. 1st. 
With the cap being substantially a lot lower this off-season draft picks are at a premium which means no one is giving up the farm to move into #2 when every QB after TL are crapshoots. 

Wrong multiple fronts. 

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18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If you can name a single team that has ever used nearly 1/4 of its cap ceiling on a pair of tackles I'd love to hear about it. It'd still be an extreme exception rather than the rule, but I'm not sure such an exception even exists.

I'd have to look up the exact numbers but the Dallas Cowboys of 2016 had Tyron Smith at LT on a mega deal they drafted Zack Martin all pro guard mid rd 1 they draft Travis Frederick all pro center mid rd 1 they got Lael Collins on the cheap (but paid like a rd 1 player) they draft Conner Williams early rd 2 if memory serves - if the QB isn't making huge money you can  plow all the money into the line  

another team that comes to mind is the 2009 Jets with Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore and Woody - only Moore was the non first rd player all those guys (especially faneca) made enormous money 

did all that add up to a quarter of the cap? i'm not sure but it was close 

and again your numbers aren't accurate because we don't know what the cap will be in 6 years - you can't say these guys will take a quarter of the cap when the cap number is not known 

what we do know is it is possible for a team to pay elite money to line when they don't have any other entanglements

the Jets have zero stars, no one under non-rookie contract of any value, they can build this team anyway they want

the problem is finding stars not paying them 

 

 

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15 hours ago, bitonti said:

I'd have to look up the exact numbers but the Dallas Cowboys of 2016 had Tyron Smith at LT on a mega deal they drafted Zack Martin all pro guard mid rd 1 they draft Travis Frederick all pro center mid rd 1 they got Lael Collins on the cheap (but paid like a rd 1 player) they draft Conner Williams early rd 2 if memory serves - if the QB isn't making huge money you can  plow all the money into the line  

another team that comes to mind is the 2009 Jets with Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore and Woody - only Moore was the non first rd player all those guys (especially faneca) made enormous money 

did all that add up to a quarter of the cap? i'm not sure but it was close 

and again your numbers aren't accurate because we don't know what the cap will be in 6 years - you can't say these guys will take a quarter of the cap when the cap number is not known 

what we do know is it is possible for a team to pay elite money to line when they don't have any other entanglements

the Jets have zero stars, no one under non-rookie contract of any value, they can build this team anyway they want

the problem is finding stars not paying them 

 

 

I said just the two tackle positions alone taking up nearly 1/4 of the entire team budget; not the whole OL 5 across. 

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50 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I said just the two tackle positions alone taking up nearly 1/4 of the entire team budget; not the whole OL 5 across. 

The cap issues can be dealt with in another 3-4 years. If the Jets strike gold and draft two elite tackles that is a good problem to have. You’d be hard pressed to find more than one long term starter on the current Jets o-line so it is certainly a major need. 
 

That said, I strongly disagree the Jets should use an asset as valuable as the second overall draft on a guy who plays the same position as Mehki Becton. To me left tackle is set for the next ten years. The Jets need to find players who profile at right tackle, guard, and center. Those type of players can be found later in the draft. 
 

I’d be incredibly disappointed if the Jets walk away with any non-QB at 2. Douglas’s job is to find the best QB not named Trevor Lawrence and bring that guy to the Jets. If he doesn’t feel like there is a franchise QB in this draft then trade down. 

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On 12/24/2020 at 4:06 PM, Jetster said:

Well, seems your in the minority. None of these guys coming out after TL will be thrown to the Wolves by Joe Douglas. You make it seem Like we don’t have 8 more picks & close to 100 million dollars to spend. 
The only way pick #2 is a QB is if Justin Fields balls out on Jan. 1st. 
With the cap being substantially a lot lower this off-season draft picks are at a premium which means no one is giving up the farm to move into #2 when every QB after TL are crapshoots. 

Drafting a QB is always a leap of faith. Why do you think Joe Douglas is getting paid the big bucks? It is his job to find that guy. 
 

How many Jets fans still complain about the team passing on Watson/Mahomes for Jamal Adams? The Jets own second overall in a draft class that has legit QB prospects. The time is now to seize the opportunity. 

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