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Mike Tannenbaum and Bart Scott advocate on "get up" to roll it back with Sam Darnold for 2021


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10 hours ago, usanyj said:

So not having looked ahead, would you say the qbs next year are better than fields and Wilson? If they are, who are they? And are you willing to risk not getting them if the Jets go 5-11 or 6-10 and fade into no mans land? Or do you take a qb with a top two picks and build around him and put him in a system that fits his skills?

I, admittedly, have not watched film on Fields and Wilson.

But after my error in judgement on endorsing the Le'Veon Bell signing... I would stick to the successful business model.

Build a team first, then draft a promising QB prospect and take advantage of his rookie contract.

The Jets have too many holes to fill before selecting a QB that is not Trevor Lawrence.

 
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I'm not saying it's the right or wrong move, but it is becoming clear that there is a real divide between how this board views that potential move versus those outside this board.

I like their suggestions. Allen Robinson plus Zach Ertz and a nasty guard would be great. Then draft Sewell or trade back and draft another OT. Wed still have enough draft capital to grab another

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26 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

 

You want a very high risk situation? Trading Sam to a place like SF for a 2nd day pick and watching him do well and taking these QB's that need alot of development 2nd overall

well he better do good there. they have a much better team.

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11 minutes ago, usanyj said:

So not having looked ahead, would you say the qbs next year are better than fields and Wilson? If they are, who are they? And are you willing to risk not getting them if the Jets go 5-11 or 6-10 and fade into no mans land? Or do you take a qb with a top two picks and build around him and put him in a system that fits his skills?

well JD better know what QBs are in next years draft, and the draft after that.

we have 2 number 1 picks next year. if there is a QB that JD really likes we could trade both to move up

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29 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Declining Sam's option and going into the draft with him as our starting QB is happening unless we're offered a first or we trade for Stafford. Its just a zero risk move. 

Rape a team or two in trade down's and see if a QB falls in your lap. You could always trade Sam later down the road. Very low risk situation. 

You want a very high risk situation? Trading Sam to a place like SF for a 2nd day pick and watching him do well and taking these QB's that need alot of development 2nd overall with a bad roster and starting them day 1. If your the GM its perfect if you plan on getting fired next offseason when Fields looks like a bust and Sam is in the playoffs. 

At least someone here gets it. This is exactly the situation that will unfold.

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1 hour ago, southtown24th said:

They will give him another shot with another OC and HC, assuming a miracle happens and Gase is let go...

Whatever, I don't even care anymore...

A big part of me says nobody deserves another chance with a third Coach (and I've been a Darnold supporter).  Even if Darnold got a bit of a raw deal with coaching and a crap roster (he did!) I could see improvements in those two areas only helping him marginally, not launching Darnold into being the Top 10 QB he'd really need to be in order to be worth keeping.

I feel like he can be a lot better than what he's been but again, that doesn't mean he'd be the QB worth building around.  At the end of the day we're looking for the QB who can lead a team to wins even when the rest of the team is average.  That's what great QBs do.

 

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2 points:

1) I think Sam can ply better than he has shown, but he has legitimate durability concerns now. He’s missed 4 games each season he has been in the league. This has to factor into the decision.

2) I think staying with Sam is very risky in some ways. If Sam stinks under a new staff and Wilson or Fields play well their rookie seasons, Douglas is going to get a lot of heat. If Darnold plays well elsewhere and the rookie struggles, at least you can chalk it up to first year struggles. You could always defend it by saying Darnold needed a fresh start.


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32 minutes ago, Shockwave said:

Declining Sam's option and going into the draft with him as our starting QB is happening unless we're offered a first or we trade for Stafford. Its just a zero risk move. 

Rape a team or two in trade down's and see if a QB falls in your lap. You could always trade Sam later down the road. Very low risk situation. 

You want a very high risk situation? Trading Sam to a place like SF for a 2nd day pick and watching him do well and taking these QB's that need alot of development 2nd overall with a bad roster and starting them day 1. If your the GM its perfect if you plan on getting fired next offseason when Fields looks like a bust and Sam is in the playoffs. 

 

What's the $ difference between the 5th year option for Sam and what the franchise tag would cost should Darnold have a miraculous 2021, and the Jets want to keep him?  I don't think it's a huge difference, maybe something like $24M vs. $21M???  I believe it's the difference between the franchise tag and transition tag value but maybe one of our resident capologists can chime in.  If I'm close then that wouldn't be a huge gamble for the Jets if they decide not to exercise the option but then decide after the 2021 season that they want to retain Darnold and can't come to a contract extension agreement.

 

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OK. So pass on a QB when we can pick any one of these highly touted ones (minus one of them) and roll the dice on Sam for one more year. And when (and it definitely is a "when" not an "if") he falls on his face again and we win a few more games in 2021 in meaningless fashion and end up picking somewhere in the 5-10 range instead of the 1 or 2 this year.. we will have set our franchise back ANOTHER bunch of years. Awesome. 

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3 minutes ago, maury77 said:

2 points:

1) I think Sam can ply better than he has shown, but he has legitimate durability concerns now. He’s missed 4 games each season he has been in the league. This has to factor into the decision.

2) I think staying with Sam is very risky in some ways. If Sam stinks under a new staff and Wilson or Fields play well their rookie seasons, Douglas is going to get a lot of heat. If Darnold plays well elsewhere and the rookie struggles, at least you can chalk it up to first year struggles. You could always defend it by saying Darnold needed a fresh start.


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I think JD may even try to have a place holder and still dump same. Contract is terrible but he likely helped in the process to draft Wentz.

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1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said:

I'm not saying it's the right or wrong move, but it is becoming clear that there is a real divide between how this board views that potential move versus those outside this board.

Seems standard.  We are a damaged lot. It's intense in Jetsfan land.  Everything in a microcosm. Which is understandable.  

but the rest of the league is usually in disagreement with a lot of what we think.  the problem is that we're right a lot. 

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2 hours ago, Jetsbb said:

The narrative is being set. I would be shocked if Jets go QB in the draft.

 

The notion that Bart Scott says anything other than what he thinks is laughable. The only critique of Scott is that he sometimes speaks before he thinks. What a wonderful man. 

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If Darnold is as bad as everyone thinks, we won’t win many games. In the meantime, we add draft picks and young players. 
We can then cut Darnold and draft a qb. And the extra picks let us trade up if that’s the right choice. 
So keep Darnold and trade down. 
If the brain trust decides one of the Not TLs is the next Ryan Leaf, then by all means take him with the #2 pick. 

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2 hours ago, doitny said:

we all wanted Trevor, and are sick of Sam. but this is not what we do. none of us are football guys. Trevor was easy cause EVERYONE said so. maybe JD isnt sold on Fields and the others. maybe he feels like not wasting the pick on a QB this year and put some more talent around this team. we might sign a decent FA QB. 

You gotta think though that JD in the back of his mind with the way he is concerned with $ knows a new rookie QB will be on the cheap for at least 3 years and Darnold will only have 1 more before his price goes up regardless. That may factor into this QB decision.

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2 hours ago, Shockwave said:

Declining Sam's option and going into the draft with him as our starting QB is happening unless we're offered a first or we trade for Stafford. Its just a zero risk move. 

Rape a team or two in trade down's and see if a QB falls in your lap. You could always trade Sam later down the road. Very low risk situation. 

You want a very high risk situation? Trading Sam to a place like SF for a 2nd day pick and watching him do well and taking these QB's that need alot of development 2nd overall with a bad roster and starting them day 1. If your the GM its perfect if you plan on getting fired next offseason when Fields looks like a bust and Sam is in the playoffs. 

This.

The drop off between Lawrence and everyone else is too great. And just like you said, the rest of the roster, as it stands now, isn't good enough to develop/support whatever consolation prize quarterback we'd get @ pick 2 or in a trade down. 

The easiest and best situation for JD would've been the first overall. But since that's likely not happening, his best play is to further improve the roster for a quarterback he didn't take and leave himself an out if the roster improves and Sam fails.

Once you get over the disappointment of not being in a position to draft Trevor, this is the most logical move for JD and for the organization. 

My only concern is what coach and what free agent would actually want to come into this situation. Woody better get his checkbook ready... you're gonna need to calculate the sh*t situation into any deal.

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3 hours ago, Creepy Lurker said:

Outside the board is ALWAYS WRONG and behind on everything, literally everything so this just proves that Sam needs to go. 

Yup Gase is a prime example, we all knew after last year it was time for him to go but most of the mainstream media talking heads called us idiots and ripped us. 

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I loved Darnold coming out, I think he would have developed differently some where else. What we did was ruined him, kids shell shocked. He needs a change of scenery, and we need to reset the QB clock now not in a year.

Those two clowns have no ability to judge anything. This would be as stupid as keeping Gase about. 

The plan id put my mortgage on is, trade out of #2, pick your new untainted Jag QB. Get a 3rd or better for Darnold. Stack picks build this teams roster. Use the late picks to trade for players from teams that can’t keep them because of cap space.

We aren’t making an impact in 2021, we need to add talent and build. We missed out on the golden prize, so take a more practical approach. The next head coaching choice will be massive, no Marvin Lewis, or Bill O’Brien or we are screwed.

He’s got to be a fresh offensive mind, not some spaced out coke head, with a massive ego.

 

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7 hours ago, Greenseed4 said:

If we were to add Thuney, Ertz, and Robinson in free agency.

Then draft Sewell in the first, and target a WR like Kadarius Toney or Tylan Wallace. 

Sam Darnold or my dead grandma could lead this offense to greatness. 

Throw in Ettiene or Harris at RB

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8 hours ago, johnnysd said:

That was not my point. The point is that they will want to pick their own QB. TL is not even going to be the most successful QB from this class, Wilson is.

100% agree....I’m clearly in the minority but I love Wilson and just don’t get wowed by Lawrence....perhaps I’m overanalysing but I just don’t see many wow throws from Lawrence, I sure do from ZW

Even if Lawrence is the real deal everyone seems to be assuming he’ll be a Tom Brady level winner in the league and that no other QB will have any sort of career. If history tells us anything it’s that your all time great QB is as likely to have been the 3rd, 4th or even 5th drafted QB and the guy who went first is just so-so. The 2018 class is currently the best example of that.

if we get Lawrence, great.....but if he’s going to be successful what he’s surrounded by in terms of coaches and teammates will be critical....people still don’t seem to get it. It’s a team game.

Stafford, Rivers, Luck.....all generational talented passers but won nothing. Even guys like Brees & Peyton ‘only’ won 3 SB’s between them in a combined 40 years of NFL trying.

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Indy and Tampa Bay are going to the playoffs with FA QB.  Chicago has a chance to go because a washed up QB who’s option was not picked up turned the team around and MVP 1st contract QB and offensive genius HC are being exposed every week in their playoff drive in AZ. 
 

Build a roster and a solid coaching staff.   There will be a QB who can be plugged in.  The teams going to the playoffs have solid rosters.  Mahomes and Rodgers will be better than any other teams QB.  The generational best QB in the league is signed long term.  We cannot win a SB by drafting the best QB in the NFL.  Lawrence will not be nearly as good as the elite NFL QBs.   We need a great team to do it.  Miami isnt going to the playoffs because Tau is an elite QB.  There going because they have assembled a very solid roster that’s very well coached.   

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