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Just take Wilson and be done with it


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24 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

I’m all for drafting Wilson.

But for the Sam Stat Police...Gase’s offense (using that word loosely here) does not create easy throws and yardage.

It’s a garbage system, and it can’t be stressed enough how much it hampered Sam. 
 

Best options in order:

• Draft Wilson

• Keep Sam and trade down (as much as possible)

I can’t justify taking Fields at 2, or taking Sewell and trying to force him or Bechton to RT.

Does Gase's system teach Sam to run OOB behind the LOS w/o throwing the ball away.

Does his system make Sam throw into double or triple coverage.

Does it render Sam useless in being able to make a hot read and adjust to a Blitz

Does it make he bypass open receivers while he's locked in on his Primary target.

Sure Gase deserves criticism for lots of things on the offense and team overall , but he's not responsible for the Stuff between Sam's ears.

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I keep seeing all these scenarios all over the place on the Jets strategy. For me it’s very simple. Draft Zach Wilson 

You think it’s that easy? LOL We’re going to be listening to the Fields vs Wilson vs Keep Darnold sh*t for months.

#2 pick - Zach Wilson #27 pick - Najee Harris/Travis Etienne FA’s - Allen Robinson/JuJu

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25 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

The thing about this scenario is it's not our jobs on the line. It's easy for us as fans to just say take the next QB and move on.  If Wilson or Fields bust, then it's just rinse and repeat for us as fans.

For Douglas though, it is his job on the line.  If he is going QB this year, he better be 100% certain that the guy he's taking is THE guy.  If he's not, Douglas starting his expiration clock 1 year earlier.  

 

When is he gonna get a QB tho if it’s not this year? I don’t think we’ll be picking top 2 again next year? Are there any decent QB prospects coming out next year anyway? 

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

And countless workout/intangible wonders did nothing in the NFL too.  

You have to base your opinion on something, right?  Many (including most scouts, admittedly) place it on "what they see" but cannot really ever explain.  You get alot of "well, just look" and "can't you see it" rather than an actual analytical explanation.

Kinda reminds me of these guys from Moneyball:

Moneyball+6.jpg

Interesting, neither did most of JN.  Including most of our resident "physical skills/intangibles" guys.

Hell, more than half of JN was skill calling him a "RB" at seasons start this year, lol.

Agreed.  That is, in part, what I like about Trask that I've read so far (way early still).  That he is a mental QB.

Long road till Draft Day, lots still to learn.

I could be talked into Trask. 

I'm not going to pretend to know how good any these guys are or will in the NFL. I thought Darnold was going to be a really good pro. I was wrong. I thought Allen was likely going to bust. I was wrong. I thought Geno had a chance to be good. Wrong. 

I'm just saying that I don't think there is any one surefire way to evaluate these guys. You are correct. Big stat guys fail. Workout warriors fail. Actually, most guys fail, as there are only like 10-15 guys in the world at any one time who can play the QB position really well in the pros. 

I just don't want us to give up on drafting QBs. I just can't watch another year of Darnold. We need to take another QB (assuming we don't think Morgan has enough upside). It doesn't have to be with the #2 overall pick (Although, I'd probably take a QB there since that would give me my pick of the litter after Lawrence). 

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9 minutes ago, 56mehl56 said:

Does Gase's system teach Sam to run OOB behind the LOS w/o throwing the ball away.

Does his system make Sam throw into double or triple coverage.

Does it render Sam useless in being able to make a hot read and adjust to a Blitz

Does it make he bypass open receivers while he's locked in on his Primary target.

Sure Gase deserves criticism for lots of things on the offense and team overall , but he's not responsible for the Stuff between Sam's ears.

Yup it sure does 

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3 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

I keep seeing all these scenarios all over the place on the Jets strategy. For me it’s very simple. Draft Zach Wilson 

it's even simpler for me 

if you met these 2 people in person

like walk up to them, shake their hand

there'd be no doubt with one was more adept to life in the NFL 

 

 

a picture is worth 1000 words - honest question, you have 1 game for all the marbles who do you trust more on that day 

this dude? 

zach_man.png.819eba471b6919c3c4f8165f09c1960a.png

or this dude

 

 

sewell2.gif

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6 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's even simpler for me 

if you met these 2 people in person

like walk up to them, shake their hand

there'd be no doubt with one was more adept to life in the NFL 

 

 

a picture is worth 1000 words - honest question, you have 1 game for all the marbles who do you trust more on that day 

this dude? 

zach_man.png.819eba471b6919c3c4f8165f09c1960a.png

or this dude

 

 

sewell2.gif

this is stupid.

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34 minutes ago, Jets Things said:

Johnny manziel teammates backed him up too when he was in college, not surprising. I’m not expecting his teammates to throw their starting QB under the bus.

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3 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

this is stupid.

one time i saw Julio Jones up close, he was a junior at Alabama

I walked passed him on the sideline he was maybe a couple yards away  in street clothes 

he looked like a defensive end or possibly a statue from Michaelangelo 

my first thought was holy jesus that's a Wide receiver??

***

some guys you just know can do it for 10 years because they are like nothing you've ever seen before

that's Penei Sewell the rarest of the rare Orlando Pace level prospect

his coaches say he can perform at 375

he has the highest PFF grade in the history of PFF grades

***

In comparison, Zach Wilson is just a guy and already down 2 labrums 

now, can just regular guys have great careers? sure Drew Brees for example 

but you don't take that guy at 2 

 

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4 minutes ago, bitonti said:

one time i saw Julio Jones up close, he was a junior at Alabama

I walked passed him on the sideline he was maybe a couple yards away  in street clothes 

he looked like a defensive end or possibly a statue from Michaelangelo 

my first thought was holy jesus that's a Wide receiver??

***

some guys you just know can do it for 10 years because they are like nothing you've ever seen before

that's Penei Sewell the rarest of the rare Orlando Pace level prospect

his coaches say he can perform at 375

he has the highest PFF grade in the history of PFF grades

***

In comparison, Zach Wilson is just a guy and already down 2 labrums 

now, can just regular guys have great careers? sure Drew Brees for example 

but you don't take that guy at 2 

 

yeah - In Kyler Murray's instance you take him at 1.

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

one time i saw Julio Jones up close, he was a junior at Alabama

I walked passed him on the sideline he was maybe a couple yards away  in street clothes 

he looked like a defensive end or possibly a statue from Michaelangelo 

my first thought was holy jesus that's a Wide receiver??

***

some guys you just know can do it for 10 years because they are like nothing you've ever seen before

that's Penei Sewell the rarest of the rare Orlando Pace level prospect

his coaches say he can perform at 375

he has the highest PFF grade in the history of PFF grades

***

In comparison, Zach Wilson is just a guy and already down 2 labrums 

now, can just regular guys have great careers? sure Drew Brees for example 

but you don't take that guy at 2 

 

I can understand this, and people need to stop using Brees as a example because clearly his situation is a outlier 

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Just now, Morrissey said:

yeah - In Kyler Murray's instance you take him at 1.

Kyler Murray was built like a tank compared to Zach Wilson

he's 5'10, Wilson is 6'3" and they are both 205

Murray was an outstanding baseball prospect as well drafted 9th overall by Oakland 

Zach Wilson isn't that rare of an athlete and I'm pretty sure all his fans know it, deep down 

he's like a better Chad Pennington maybe. Smart, nice ball, played mid-level competition. Tears labrums like they are losing horse racing bet slips 

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2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

Kyler Murray was built like a tank compared to Zach Wilson

he's 5'10, Wilson is 6'3" and they are both 205

Murray was an outstanding baseball prospect as well drafted 9th overall by Oakland 

Zach Wilson isn't that rare of an athlete and I'm pretty sure all his fans know it, deep down 

he's like a better Chad Pennington maybe. Smart, nice ball, played mid-level competition. Tears labrums like they are losing horse racing bet slips 

a better Chad Pennington is the best QB the Jets ever had... lol I'll take it

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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

I thought the same. But I was wondering the same about Trask. His numbers are super impressive. Watching him just doesnt connect. He looks like Brandon Weeden.

Manziel, Tebow and MANY others looked special.    It's a tough business. What you just said... is a fair statement.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

a better Chad Pennington is the best QB the Jets ever had... lol I'll take it

I mean, I'd take a chance too 

but at 29 with the Jamal Adams pick 

don't take that guy at 2

he got beat up by Coastal Carolina... who just lost to Liberty

what happens if Zach Wilson faced Clemson or Alabama? would they break him on the field? It's a fair question of any player who has not faced top competition  

he really needs a great Senior Bowl to solidify mid-rd1 status 

like Chad Pennington did when he was at Marshall 

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3 hours ago, Patriot Killa said:

ATL will take Wilson and he will go on to have a 13 year long career and JD will have to answer for it because he ignored his arm talent/traits over something that barely makes sense like his frame.

CIN will take Sewell and have a HoF left tackle the likes of which they have not seen since Anthony Munoz.

We can play this out a number of ways.

 

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17 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Johnny manziel teammates backed him up too when he was in college, not surprising. I’m not expecting his teammates to throw their starting QB under the bus.

Sure, but Johnny football was a toolbag, drug addict... this kid can’t even drink coffee. And we are judging him because his uncle is wealthy? And this is ok? Sounds like an assumption to me that because he has money he must be a tool. 

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16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

I mean, I'd take a chance too 

but at 29 with the Jamal Adams pick 

don't take that guy at 2

he got beat up by Coastal Carolina... who just lost to Liberty

what happens if Zach Wilson faced Clemson or Alabama? would they break him on the field? It's a fair question of any player who has not faced top competition  

he really needs a great Senior Bowl to solidify mid-rd1 status 

like Chad Pennington did when he was at Marshall 

He did not get beat up by Coastal Carolina.. his team lost and he still almost won it for them in the end. Zach Wilson would do great against Clemson.. if he was Alabama's QB, obviously BYU would not stand up against the likes of Clemson or Alabama.

You gotta learn to evaluate the player not the team he plays.

and he's a junior and won't be in the senior bowl obviously.

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28 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's even simpler for me 

if you met these 2 people in person

like walk up to them, shake their hand

there'd be no doubt with one was more adept to life in the NFL 

 

 

a picture is worth 1000 words - honest question, you have 1 game for all the marbles who do you trust more on that day 

this dude? 

zach_man.png.819eba471b6919c3c4f8165f09c1960a.png

or this dude

 

 

sewell2.gif

To win a game? Probably the guy who touches the football on every single play. That seems more important.

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47 minutes ago, Rhg1084 said:

When is he gonna get a QB tho if it’s not this year? I don’t think we’ll be picking top 2 again next year? Are there any decent QB prospects coming out next year anyway? 

There are countless examples where teams took successful QBs outside of the top two.  In addition to that, part of what Douglas has done well so far is create flexibility in draft capital.  He will have the ability to move in the future if he needs to.

The question about decent QB prospects is a part of the equation.  Short answer yes(in my opinion).  I can say with almost 100% certainty both Sam Howell and Kedon Slovis are more highly regarded now than Wilson was at this point last year.  Potentially even on par(or better) with what people thought of Fields this time last year.  The way modern NFL drafts work, there are always going to be QBs in each draft that are discussed as 1st rounders, and probably multiple QBs.  

To me, it boils down to what is the more likely recipe for sustained future success.  I'll add that the assumption is all of the QBs(not named Lawrence) over the next few drafts are in the same general ball park as "grades".  What is more likely to build a consistent winner over the next 5 years?  Drafting a QB this year then filling out the roster around him?  Or filling out the roster as best as you can this year, and taking a relatively similar QB next year?  My opinion is the latter.  But in that scenario you run the risk of not having the opportunity to get a QB.  In the first scenario you run the risk of hindering the QBs development moreso than you would in the second scenario.

Anyway, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.  I actually don't even really think it's a question about Zach Wilson or Sam Darnold.  But the question for us as fans is a bit easier to answer than it is for Douglas.  He's not going to get fired for having a bad year next year.  He easily could get fired for having 3 bad years after this.  What is the best way to prevent that.  Gambling on a QB you may not believe is the guy, or making the talent on the team as best as you can first, but gambling on the chance you can still draft a decent QB prospect next year? 

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3 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

He did not get beat up by Coastal Carolina.. his team did. Zach Wilson would do great against Clemson.. if he was Alabama's QB.

You gotta learn to evaluate the player not the team he plays.

and he's a junior and won't be in the senior bowl obviously.

He drove 92 yards out of the 95 needed to nearly complete a miracle comeback. They beat BYU, yeah, but I don’t know about beat down BYU.

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4 hours ago, oatmeal said:

No ty with those shoulders 👍

 

maybe atl of car can get 5 years or more out of him(if they get lucky) but I wouldn’t risk it, I can see one bad hit crunching him

injury hx concern is valid. however, besides Blake Cashman any examples of this recurring that you can cite? I can cite Brees (this isnt a talent comparison just a durability point) as someone who had his shoulder repaired and was just fine for a lonnnng time.

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I don't get the wilson hype. Hes a 1 year wonder. He was pretty terrible as a freshman and sophomore. His sophomore season he had 11 tds 9 ints starting 9 games.  

This year he beat up on power houses like North Alabama, western Kentucky, Troy, and Navy. The only decent team they played was coastal Carolina and they lost.  

Fields is 10X the prospect that wilson is IMO.  

 

 

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39 minutes ago, bitonti said:

it's even simpler for me 

if you met these 2 people in person

like walk up to them, shake their hand

there'd be no doubt with one was more adept to life in the NFL 

 

 

a picture is worth 1000 words - honest question, you have 1 game for all the marbles who do you trust more on that day 

this dude? 

zach_man.png.819eba471b6919c3c4f8165f09c1960a.png

or this dude

 

 

sewell2.gif

 

image.png.19a8d2ad89ce3bcff60b515904d92a7b.png

 

YEAH BECAUSE this guy was so feared......

 

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

You were also, if I recall, 100% sure Darnold would be dominant in the NFL too.

That is true. Once someone becomes a Jet you tend to view them with more Green colored goggles.

Sam was, and is still a dynamic player out of the pocket.

He had clear issues coming into the NFL, throwing a lot of interception worthy balls, fumbling a lot, concerns on the long ball.

He seemed super coachable. He fixed the fumbling right away. He was among the best QBs in the NFL the end of 2018.

Far smarter people than me, thought he would be dominant like Orlovsky and Romo. (Greg Cosell didn't and sort of predicted his career accurately, really interested in his opinion of Wilson)

Then we hired literally the worst possible coach for Sam. Gase's offense is literally the opposite of what Sam needs. It is a complicated, rigid offense that requires a cerebral QB like PM. What Sam needs is a reactionary up tempo offense that builds confidence and rhythm and is more read and react and allows for improvisation, changes at the LOS, and off script plays

Sam got none of that. Couple that with an incredibly bad OL, lack of weapons and growing lack of confidence and Sam is basically ruined. He is not as good a QB as he was in the opener in Detroit.

Was it 100% wrong evaluation or 100% wrong development? Probably a little of both.

I am not a scout and I generally avoid making huge judgements on players before the draft. As mentioned I become a fan after the draft and not objective.

Josh Allen was drafted on his tools and skills (and size) not really his performance. He has developed.

Wilson IMO has the best set of tools I have seen in a college QB. Best accuracy, super fast release, big arm, protects the ball etc... I can certainly be wrong about Wilson too but his skill just completely jumps out at you.

QB decision should be largely up to the HC with assistance from JD and scouts. If we want to be successful we need to let the next HC have his guy. I just hope that is Wilson.

 

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9 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

There are countless examples where teams took successful QBs outside of the top two.  In addition to that, part of what Douglas has done well so far is create flexibility in draft capital.  He will have the ability to move in the future if he needs to.

The question about decent QB prospects is a part of the equation.  Short answer yes(in my opinion).  I can say with almost 100% certainty both Sam Howell and Kedon Slovis are more highly regarded now than Wilson was at this point last year.  Potentially even on par(or better) with what people thought of Fields this time last year.  The way modern NFL drafts work, there are always going to be QBs in each draft that are discussed as 1st rounders, and probably multiple QBs.  

To me, it boils down to what is the more likely recipe for sustained future success.  I'll add that the assumption is all of the QBs(not named Lawrence) over the next few drafts are in the same general ball park as "grades".  What is more likely to build a consistent winner over the next 5 years?  Drafting a QB this year then filling out the roster around him?  Or filling out the roster as best as you can this year, and taking a relatively similar QB next year?  My opinion is the latter.  But in that scenario you run the risk of not having the opportunity to get a QB.  In the first scenario you run the risk of hindering the QBs development moreso than you would in the second scenario.

Anyway, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.  I actually don't even really think it's a question about Zach Wilson or Sam Darnold.  But the question for us as fans is a bit easier to answer than it is for Douglas.  He's not going to get fired for having a bad year next year.  He easily could get fired for having 3 bad years after this.  What is the best way to prevent that.  Gambling on a QB you may not believe is the guy, or making the talent on the team as best as you can first, but gambling on the chance you can still draft a decent QB prospect next year? 

Solid response dude, appreciate the well thought out post! I’m more in the line of thinking that’s it’s very difficult to find a good QB and if you are in position to take one you do it. Who knows what’s gonna happen in the future. Jets may never be in this position again with a top 2 pick. If they go 6-10 or whatever next year they’ll have no shot at the top QBs in that draft. If this kid Wilson (or even Fields) has the potential to succeed then I think it’s a no brainer to take one of them.

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2 hours ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Tua is looking great right? SEC guy? Herbert from the PAC-12 will never be good

Tua got benched the other night.  Fitz cae in and won the game.

   IMO the Fish are very likely to take a QB with the pick at 3.  Douglas better get this right.  

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2 hours ago, oatmeal said:

Brees? A clear outlier, so it’s smart to hedge our bets on this.

great logic 👍

u still cannot cite an example? am just saying you are making a presumptive statement. he WILL get reinjured.

i am NOT stating that BRees is the be all and end all. I AM saying thats ONE specific example that I can point to. 

but YOU base your presumption w/o a single example? again. am not saying concern is invalid.

we're simply discussing the injury consideration.

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49 minutes ago, bitonti said:

a picture is worth 1000 words - honest question, you have 1 game for all the marbles who do you trust more on that day 

this dude? 

zach_man.png.819eba471b6919c3c4f8165f09c1960a.png

or this dude

Geez, I would never in a million years guess "football player".  Heck, I might not even guess "dude".

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8 minutes ago, aagarcia said:

 

image.png.19a8d2ad89ce3bcff60b515904d92a7b.png

 

YEAH BECAUSE this guy was so feared......

 

 

Vernon Gholston never showed the emotion that Sewell shows, and he wasn't even that rare of a defensive end prospect physically 

he had like a great vertical leap and some serious undiagnosed mental issues and went 6 overall 

meanwhile Sewell is the only true soph to ever win the Outland

it's only because of Trevor he's not going 1

if he doesn't go 2 he's going 3 

comparing Penei Sewell to Vernon Gholston is an insult to Sewell

 

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10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Wilson IMO has the best set of tools I have seen in a college QB. Best accuracy, super fast release, big arm, protects the ball etc... I can certainly be wrong about Wilson too but his skill just completely jumps out at you.

 

 

 a players body, his physical stature, his durability, these are also tools so to speak 

he has all sorts of great film against questionable competition 

the problem is what happens when Myles Garrett and Oliver Vernon get to him like they did Sam yesterday? 

does he snap in two? it's a fair question to ask

the dude is built like a normal human being 

Chad was a normal human too the league chewed him up 

 

 

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