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Trade with Bengals for #5 overall? Target Lance.


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I’d pass on taking a QB altogether. JD should try his damndest to trade down, accumulate more picks and take a guy like Pitts in the 5-10 area or just stay put at #2 and take Sewell. And I R

Hasn't played enough to warrant a selection that high. Inexperience is a key factor in determining the likelihood of QB busts

FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see

If carolina is still at nine, this is where i go, to jump up to 2, package would need to include next yrs one. If you still wanted to go qb, either jones or lance will be there at 9. If not, there are the miami pass rushers, the alabama wrs, and potentially the te.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see who they hire and maybe have an idea of their vision.

That said, while I like Fields and would be happy with him at #2, I'm happy with any trade back scenario as well.  Just address QB, bottom line.  Whether it's Wilson/Lance in the 1st or Trask/Jones in the 2nd or trade or sign a FA, whatever, they just have to do something other then going into preseason with Darnold as incumbent with no competition for the job.

yep.  they need to keep drafting qbs until they get it right.  about the only issue is where you draft them unless they're a guy like lawrence.  and, not for nothing, we know nothing about what morgan can or can't do.  it's possible that he's projected to be a starter if darnold doesn't improve next season.  pretty unlikely for a 4th rounder but at the same time there are guys like dak, wilson and even cousins who are doing pretty well out of the middle rounds.

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6 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

If we move out of pick two it's a good indication that we are not targeting a first round qb. Does not mean we won't grab one with the seahawks pick but why move down and hope the guy who put any high is still there?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Not necessarily true, it just means the do not want to invest the 2 in fields or wilson, they may like trey or jones as much, and get at least a 2022 one,( likely more)for making drop to 9

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Someone needs to explain why someone like Ian Book is any more of a flyer than the other draftnik fanboy QBs not named Trevor Lawrence.

 

Why not take him or a guy like Ehlinger from Texas in the middle rounds?

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16 minutes ago, y2k8 said:

 

Someone needs to explain why someone like Ian Book is any more of a flyer than the other draftnik fanboy QBs not named Trevor Lawrence.

 

Why not take him or a guy like Ehlinger from Texas in the middle rounds?

Book stinks and is an udfa guy.  As for why I say this?  Just watching him the last couple of years.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see who they hire and maybe have an idea of their vision.

That said, while I like Fields and would be happy with him at #2, I'm happy with any trade back scenario as well.  Just address QB, bottom line.  Whether it's Wilson/Lance in the 1st or Trask/Jones in the 2nd or trade or sign a FA, whatever, they just have to do something other then going into preseason with Darnold as incumbent with no competition for the job.

unfortunately, I do not think outside of picking a QB at 2 the jets will be addressing the QB spot this year.  Obviously things are a long way off and the pre draft process changes a lot of minds, as does a new coaching staff, and finished post season evaluations, but just the sense I've gotten from the info shared from some in the know here and my own talks with people that are reliable sources.  Just feels like the general consensus will be to trade down, build a really solid team around Sam, and if he fails, a rookie walks into a much much better situation than any QB we've had in a long time and has a real chance to succeed with talent and a competent coaching staff. 

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Just watched his highlights from his 2019 season, he has one of the quickest releases I've seen. It takes him no time to get the ball out when he has decided on his target. Plus he seems very accurate, even on the long ball. Kind of get a boom or bust vibe. I feel like he'll either be the best in this class like Mahomes or be like Haskin and out in two to three seasons. He would be a kid I would feel much more comfortable with if he already had a solid team around him. A little worried about what he could do with the team we'd be able to put around him next year. Connor Rodgers said on the play like a jet podcast that he is high on him and that we'd have to still be in the 5-10 range in a trade back to get him. He said his only concern on Trey is who he played against. Trey has everything else you could want in a prospect.

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1 hour ago, JiF said:

FWIW, I think QB is going to be largely a combined decision between JD and the new coach and I hate to say it, probably the Johnson's.  So nobody knows anything right now and really wont until we see who they hire and maybe have an idea of their vision.

That said, while I like Fields and would be happy with him at #2, I'm happy with any trade back scenario as well.  Just address QB, bottom line.  Whether it's Wilson/Lance in the 1st or Trask/Jones in the 2nd or trade or sign a FA, whatever, they just have to do something other then going into preseason with Darnold as incumbent with no competition for the job.

All these guys need coaches that can actually help them develop. None of the prospects after Lawrence are polished guys, so really we are all just projecting tools and ability to get the mental part of the game.

For me, it’s whether JD likes Fields enough to pull the trigger at two. Otherwise, i’d want to just trade down and get a playmaker. we haven’t had a dominant receiver or tight end in forever. 
 

Then again i’d actually like to be able to watch a good passing game for once in my life so i’m biased. Haven’t had that since like the first half of the favre season. 
 

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1 minute ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

For me, it’s whether JD likes Fields enough to pull the trigger at two. Otherwise, i’d want to just trade down and get a playmaker. we haven’t had a dominant receiver or tight end in forever. 
 

Then again i’d actually like to be able to watch a good passing game for once in my life. Haven’t had that since like the first half of the favre season. 

That playmaker needs to be the QB 

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2 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

unfortunately, I do not think outside of picking a QB at 2 the jets will be addressing the QB spot this year.  Obviously things are a long way off and the pre draft process changes a lot of minds, as does a new coaching staff, and finished post season evaluations, but just the sense I've gotten from the info shared from some in the know here and my own talks with people that are reliable sources.  Just feels like the general consensus will be to trade down, build a really solid team around Sam, and if he fails, a rookie walks into a much much better situation than any QB we've had in a long time and has a real chance to succeed with talent and a competent coaching staff. 

Right on, like you said, I a lot can happen between then and now, especially with a new coaching staff.  I just hope we're not repeating the same mistake twice by holding out for hope because in this situation, we're gambling on a lot things to play out 1. Sam Darnold improving 2. being in position to take a blue chip Qb prospect 3. this unidentified rookie doest suck too 4. Fields or Wilson falling into the Watson/Mahomes category.  Just scary because its rare to have #2 overall and a QB worthy of the selection. 

 

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

Agreed

I was all about moving on from Darnold when it looked like we were going to land Lawrence.

But with that dream dead and buried, might as well build the sh*t out of the team with the most cap space in the league and a bounty of draft picks and see what Darnold can do under the tutelage of someone like Daboll.

Neither Fields or Wilson or Lance are some kind of amazing prospects that can’t be passed on. Take Lawrence out of the equation and there are plenty of people who would take the 2022 class of QB’s over the 2021 class.

Yeah people going to have to get used to same QB room and thats fine..  I'd re-sign Flacco who wasn't half bad after that first game and if they like what they saw from Morgan let him marinate another year.

If Darnold fails next year they'll have at least 2 1st rounders for 2022 draft.

Losing Lawrence def sucked but its not as dire as some make it out to be.

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7 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

All these guys need coaches that can actually help them develop. None of the prospects after Lawrence are polished guys, so really we are all just projecting tools and ability to get the mental part of the game.

For me, it’s whether JD likes Fields enough to pull the trigger at two. Otherwise, i’d want to just trade down and get a playmaker. we haven’t had a dominant receiver or tight end in forever. 
 

Then again i’d actually like to be able to watch a good passing game for once in my life so i’m biased. Haven’t had that since like the first half of the favre season. 
 

Agreed and after Lawrence, you dont have that much film on any of these dudes.  Fields is a year in a half.  Trask is a year in a half.  Wilson is a 1 year wonder.  Lance is 1 year.  Mac Jones is 1 year.   I think outside of Lawrence, Kellen Mond probably has the most experience of any QB coming out.  Not an easy task, so again it's tools and brains.  Which is why it's clear to me that Fields is that guy but that's just me I guess. 

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1 hour ago, Untouchable said:

No one knows that for certain

Especially if Fields keeps sh*tting the bed whenever he faces even remotely stiff competition and Wilson once again blows out one of his dainty shoulders.

So unless Wilson gets injured like he did when he was 17 and has recovered from and if Fields only loses to top 10 defenses in college football? Fields is flawed but his gifts make up for it and Wilson is a little small but otherwise he’s the total package. They’re number 1 overalls in any draft without Lawrence in it.

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8 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right on, like you said, I a lot can happen between then and now, especially with a new coaching staff.  I just hope we're not repeating the same mistake twice by holding out for hope because in this situation, we're gambling on a lot things to play out 1. Sam Darnold improving 2. being in position to take a blue chip Qb prospect 3. this unidentified rookie doest suck too 4. Fields or Wilson falling into the Watson/Mahomes category.  Just scary because its rare to have #2 overall and a QB worthy of the selection. 

 

Its definitely a risky venture anyway you slice it... Taking one of these QB's at 2 is risky, and not taking one of them is also risky.  Its about what gives you the best chance to be successful in the long run.  I think personally for where it stands right now, the Jets are more likely to have sustained success trading down and building an actual functioning competitive team then acquiring a QB they feel can be the guy all the while using that time to give their former QB hopeful a chance to succeed with the requisite talent.  Sam's age and perceived ceiling gives the jets some flexibility to take the chance on building a potentially very solid core.  If he reaches that ceiling? The jets are set for a decade plus, if he doesnt? then they have the ammunition to maneuver around the draft board and get a guy they like.  The only caveat is if you truly feel that Wilson or Fields is the answer to your decades long QB search.  To me I do not feel that way as of right now, and another miss at QB would set the team back quite a ways considering the capital they could gain by trading down.    Is it a perfect plan?  not at all, but its the one that makes the most sense fo the position the team is in. 

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2 hours ago, PepPep said:

I've been thinking at the best case scenario for the Jets in the draft and unless they are sold on Wilson and/or Fields as a Franchise QB (I'm not BTW), I think it would have to be moving down to #5 with the Bengals. The Bengals would get Sewell and the Jets would get more draft assets this year and next. Meanwhile, the plan would be to target Lance. NOT Wilson, NOT Fields. Now, I get it, the Bengals would have to bite. But they are kind of in no-mans land at 5, just out of reach of a generational LT who they truly need to protect their 2nd year Franchise QB. 

Personally, I think Lance's stock will rise after the combine but I don't think anyone will consider him the #2 QB. If the Jets move down to #5 I can only imagine one team ahead of them (the Falcons) being interested in a QB. Now, obviously someone could move up to the #3 pick with the Dolphins and take a QB but with Wilson and Fields being considered 'better' prospects than Lance, I can't imagine Lance being gone by #5. Possible but highly unlikely. 

What I like about Lance is his combination of immense upside (physical tools and traits- size/athleticism, cannon arm), leadership, and accuracy. All he's done is put up insane numbers and win. But he's raw and comes from playing in weaker conference. Anyway, I love him as a 'consolation prize' to TL, especially if the Jets can trade down, sit him and develop him while they give Darnold another shot. 

I'm no scout but if the Jets saw Lance as a legit Franchise QB who just needed to be developed a couple of years would you be on board for this strategy? Or would you rather punt on a QB completely this year OR conversely, go with Wilson or Fields #2? (I guess the option would be another QB later on like Mac Jones or Trask).       

I'm posting this thread because it seems like with all the talk since missing out on TL, nobody seems to be considering Lance as even an option.  

Hasn't he played like in a year?

Take Sewell and have the best tandem of tackles de nfl has ever known...

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People need to abandon the train of thought that the only two options at QB for 2021 are Darnold or a rookie. Jacoby Brissett, CJ Beathard, Jamies Winston, and Brandon Allen are all 28 and under UFA QBs. And they would all be more than adequate QBs for a rebuilding team and allow JD to not risk wasting draft capital on a rookie QB who is sure to struggle on a developing team.

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2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I'll admit I flip flop, but seeing Tannehill go from complete garbage under Gase to being ranked #4 in the league (QBR) makes me want to see Sam have a year with a real HC/OC combination before I dump him for a 3rd rounder

Sorry but he was not complete garbage under Gase.  Gase probably held him back, sure, but he was still head and shoulders above Sam that whole while.  I don't know where the Tannehill TOTALLY s'ked under Gase came from.  JMHO. 

Sam is a knucklehead, something which Tannehill wasn't.     

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2 hours ago, Untouchable said:

Agreed

I was all about moving on from Darnold when it looked like we were going to land Lawrence.

But with that dream dead and buried, might as well build the sh*t out of the team with the most cap space in the league and a bounty of draft picks and see what Darnold can do under the tutelage of someone like Daboll.

Neither Fields or Wilson or Lance are some kind of amazing prospects that can’t be passed on. Take Lawrence out of the equation and there are plenty of people who would take the 2022 class of QB’s over the 2021 class.

Like we were so smart for passing on the 2017 QBs for the 2018 class?

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2 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

I'll admit I flip flop, but seeing Tannehill go from complete garbage under Gase to being ranked #4 in the league (QBR) makes me want to see Sam have a year with a real HC/OC combination before I dump him for a 3rd rounder

Tannehill's QB rating in his 2 seasons under Gase:  93, 88.  Not great but certainly not "garbage".  He wasn't garbage before, during, or after the Gase era. 

Darnold,, meanwhile was garbage in college, under Bowles/Bates, and under Gase outside of one Rose Bowl game and the Packers game.  

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1 hour ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

The rep on the Bengals is that they never trade up. Not sure how legit it is, and maybe it changes with Burrow... but I’ve seen dozens of people say this as if it’s fact.

 

Regarding Lance, I think people are underestimating how big a part of the conversation be will be come draft time. Daniel Jeremiah ranked him AHEAD of Trevor Lawerence before the season based on 2019 tape, and he’s the type of guy that will crush the interview process and probably combine. 
 

 

What also needs to be evaluated is whether or not 9 games vs the ND State schedule is better preparation for the NFL game then spending 6 months taking snaps under center, learning NFL protections/defenses and working on mechanics. 

Playing games is important and Lance’s team actually runs a pro offense with a huddle and snaps from center but no one has ever done what he is doing now so we don’t really know how helpful it may be. College QBs spend their last year before the draft game planning for College opponents and then working the pre draft stuff. Lance has been working with Quincy Avery for months working on pro passing concepts, defensive recognition etc. it’s entirely possible that is more valuable then a college season. 

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21 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

Sorry but he was not complete garbage under Gase.  Gase probably held him back, sure, but he was still head and shoulders above Sam that whole while.  I don't know where the Tannehill TOTALLY s'ked under Gase came from.  JMHO. 

Sam is a knucklehead, something which Tannehill wasn't.     

Point taken. I guess this "is Sam salvageable" debate will dominate the discussion here for a while

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24 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Its definitely a risky venture anyway you slice it... Taking one of these QB's at 2 is risky, and not taking one of them is also risky.  Its about what gives you the best chance to be successful in the long run.  I think personally for where it stands right now, the Jets are more likely to have sustained success trading down and building an actual functioning competitive team then acquiring a QB they feel can be the guy all the while using that time to give their former QB hopeful a chance to succeed with the requisite talent.  Sam's age and perceived ceiling gives the jets some flexibility to take the chance on building a potentially very solid core.  If he reaches that ceiling? The jets are set for a decade plus, if he doesnt? then they have the ammunition to maneuver around the draft board and get a guy they like.  The only caveat is if you truly feel that Wilson or Fields is the answer to your decades long QB search.  To me I do not feel that way as of right now, and another miss at QB would set the team back quite a ways considering the capital they could gain by trading down.    Is it a perfect plan?  not at all, but its the one that makes the most sense fo the position the team is in. 

Right on and as much as I like Fields, the trade down scenario is juicy for the long term build.  As we've been having this conversation, I've been messing around the draft simulations in the draft forum and it's hard not to like the idea of stacking up talent and picks.  Some of the drafts I and others have done are on paper are just ridiculous. 

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37 minutes ago, JiF said:

Right on and as much as I like Fields, the trade down scenario is juicy for the long term build.  As we've been having this conversation, I've been messing around the draft simulations in the draft forum and it's hard not to like the idea of stacking up talent and picks.  Some of the drafts I and others have done are on paper are just ridiculous. 

lol check out the last one i did in that thread, I traded down with San fran and got maybe the greatest draft of all time lol basically completely rebuild the team and set the franchise up to do whatever they want next season too.  Its nice to dream ahah

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