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bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

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If you believe in a QB in this draft not named Trevor Lawrence, you take him at pick 2. Simple. I'd draft Wilson, Fields, or Lance. 

Where are you guys getting 10 million for Sam Darnold in 2021? Over the cap has his total salary for 2021 at $5.5 million.  Thats a freaking steal to see if a new coach & better surrounding Olin

Yes, I have advocated a veteran on a one year deal or draft a QB with the Seattle pick.

Think if Darnold is starting you dont waste the 2 pick on a QB you get the impact player that can help get wins in 2021

Cimini floated taking Trask from Florida with the late 1st rounder, give Sam one last chance with a real team, if it doesnt pan out you got the young QB in 2022.

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Mr. Samuel Darnold can become the QB of a mid-level team with sufficient coaching. Mr. Sam Flacco remains a serviceable replacement on the sidelines. That takes care of the next couple of years. Play-calling and the make-up of the offensive team can be tweaked to make use of Mr. Darnold's strong points.

 

For the future, though, a new prospect's not to be foregone. If the team's to be adjusted to suit Mr. Darnold, the new QB should also fit that pattern. Otherwise, a re-tweaking's needed all over again.

 

The defensive team, on the other hand, is not all that bad. In fact, it's pretty good, when the mood strikes it.

 

That's the view from here.

 

Go, Jets!

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As of now, I’m in the bring him back camp. Not because I have some unwavering faith that Sam will miraculously turn it around. But more so because that #2 must be, without fail, a 10 year starter/borderline hall of fame player for us. If you tell me either Wilson or Fields is that type of player, fine, then take one. As of now, I see Sewell or Chase more likely to end up in that boat. This is how you build a steady consistent winner, stacking pro bowl caliber guys. 

So that said, I’m all for bringing in competition, whether it’s Marriotta, Winston, Morgan, draft another an in round 2, whatever. I don’t think Sam should just be handed the job at this point, let him compete.

Also want to point out it’s way too early in the process and we have no idea who the coach will be, how the draft picks will look during championship games/combine, which free agents will be available, etc. So obviously our opinions may change greatly over the next couple months.

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38 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Yes, I have advocated a veteran on a one year deal or draft a QB with the Seattle pick.

Think if Darnold is starting you dont waste the 2 pick on a QB you get the impact player that can help get wins in 2021

Cimini floated taking Trask from Florida with the late 1st rounder, give Sam one last chance with a real team, if it doesnt pan out you got the young QB in 2022.

We need to not make the mistake the Eagles and Rams where you are stuck with crippling contracts on a QB that can't cut the mustard. We have to be sure with Sam before doing that or just don't do it.

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52 minutes ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

That’s what I’ve been saying the entire time

 

The Justin Fields fanclub wants to oversimplify our position and call us all blind Sam-lovers, we can bring in a Jameis Winston, Carson Wentz or draft a QB with the Seattle pick and let’s see next TC and preseason best man win

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3 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

We need to not make the mistake the Eagles and Rams where you are stuck with crippling contracts on a QB that can't cut the mustard. We have to be sure with Sam before doing that or just don't do it.

So give him another year.  If he somehow has a great year with the NFL’s best offensive line, better coaching and weapons we can resign him or simply franchise him

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I leave this decision up to the next coach. Personally, I’d prefer to bring in a veteran to at least compete with Sam. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that he did his best at USC when he had to win the job as the starter. Once given the job, I don’t think he works hard at it. He’s a gifted athlete who was the most athletic guy on the field most of his life. He simply has never had to put in the type of off the field work you need to succeed in the NFL. I don’t know if he’s capable of doing it. But this is where the rubber meets the road. He either puts in a full off-season working on the mental part of the game and his mechanics to truly try to save his career or he is destined to be what he has been the past few years. 
 

It is interesting to compare Josh Allen to Sam. At the end of last season Josh Allen had the worst completion percentage of any quarterback I believe. This year he’s at or near the top. Why? Because he worked very hard to improve himself mechanically and to be a student of the game. I just question whether Sam has the heart to do the work that is necessary to become a very good NFL quarterback. Has he really ever had to work for anything in his life? I mean really work? He was handed the quarterback job in high school after the quarterback was injured. He cruised on his natural athletic ability to a scholarship to USC and parlayed a comeback performance against Penn State in the Rose Bowl into a top five draft pick status.  To be cruelly honest, at this point Sam is about the equivalent of a well behaved Dwayne Haskins. Only Sam can change the narrative. I just question how hard he is willing to work to do so.

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I am in the group that is ready to move on from Sam.  But if we do keep him for another year, then we need to bring in legit competition.  And not a 35+ year old journeyman vet.  Bring in a guy in h is 20s.  Winston/Trubisky or trade for a Wentz/Mariota (if available) and let them compete. At least this way, whoever wins the competition, Sam, vet or Morgan (remember him) is a guy who is young enough to build around for the future if he plays at a high level.

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

I am in the group that is ready to move on from Sam.  But if we do keep him for another year, then we need to bring in legit competition.  And not a 35+ year old journeyman vet.  Bring in a guy in h is 20s.  Winston/Trubisky or trade for a Wentz/Mariota (if available) and let them compete. At least this way, whoever wins the competition, Sam, vet or Morgan (remember him) is a guy who is young enough to build around for the future if he plays at a high level.

The UFA under 29 QBs who make sense to me are: Jameis Winston, Brandon Allen, Jacoby Brisset and CJ Beathard. They would all be an upgrade over what Sam has brought to the table the past 3 years and you do not have to break the bank to sign them and they would all welcome the chance to compete against Sam for the starting job. At the very least they can serve as our Steve DeBerg bridge to our Joe Montana.  

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2 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Any legitimate completion is beating him out. So if the Jets bring back Darnold(bad) he’ll be the starter (really bad and doing the same bad stuff over).

Statue Joe Flacco was better than Darnold this season.

exactly.  if flacco or someone like bridgewater had played all season the jets would have 4-6 wins and nobody would have been talking tank all year.  darnold is who he is, a very below average starter who is perceived to have a higher ceiling only because of his draft position.  douglas will draft a new qb at 2 or in a trade down.  also i can't imagine any new HC would want darnold, especially any DC who schemed against him and saw all his flaws.

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3 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

As of now, I’m in the bring him back camp. Not because I have some unwavering faith that Sam will miraculously turn it around. But more so because that #2 must be, without fail, a 10 year starter/borderline hall of fame player for us. If you tell me either Wilson or Fields is that type of player, fine, then take one. As of now, I see Sewell or Chase more likely to end up in that boat. This is how you build a steady consistent winner, stacking pro bowl caliber guys. 

So that said, I’m all for bringing in competition, whether it’s Marriotta, Winston, Morgan, draft another an in round 2, whatever. I don’t think Sam should just be handed the job at this point, let him compete.

Also want to point out it’s way too early in the process and we have no idea who the coach will be, how the draft picks will look during championship games/combine, which free agents will be available, etc. So obviously our opinions may change greatly over the next couple months.

good points.  totally agree on not using the 2 pick on a qb unless he checks all of the boxes.  at that point darnold is trade bait.  as for bringing in a vet, maybe.  there are quite a few ex-starters available.  mariota and winston may be available.  minshew may be cast off from the jags once they pick lawrence.  even morgan should be in the mix.  and some serious competition for darnold can be a good thing.  i don't think he should necessarily be handed the job in 2021.

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I’m totally fine with bringing in more competition for the QB spot.  I’m not against drafting a QB but I feel at this point we might as well try to build our team.  I’ve always been honest about Sams issues.  But I still believe he has a lot of talent and that this organization failed him.  Honestly I can’t think of another young QBS who has had dreadful, coaching, protection, and weapons.  I do think the oline is starting to look a bit better and Mims and Crowder are jive pieces but In order for any QB to excel you need to build around him 

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3 hours ago, Sammybighead said:

As of now, I’m in the bring him back camp. Not because I have some unwavering faith that Sam will miraculously turn it around. But more so because that #2 must be, without fail, a 10 year starter/borderline hall of fame player for us. If you tell me either Wilson or Fields is that type of player, fine, then take one. As of now, I see Sewell or Chase more likely to end up in that boat. This is how you build a steady consistent winner, stacking pro bowl caliber guys. 

So that said, I’m all for bringing in competition, whether it’s Marriotta, Winston, Morgan, draft another an in round 2, whatever. I don’t think Sam should just be handed the job at this point, let him compete.

Also want to point out it’s way too early in the process and we have no idea who the coach will be, how the draft picks will look during championship games/combine, which free agents will be available, etc. So obviously our opinions may change greatly over the next couple months.

I agree with much of what you are saying, but if you are looking for a no risk QB in the draft, I don't think that exists.  Even Lawrence, who is a really good prospect, is not without fail a 10 year starter/HOF caliber player. 

Every prospect carries some degree of risk regardless of postiion.  Sewell is not guaranteed to be a 10-year All Pro OT.  Same with Wilson, Fields or anyone else at any point in the draft.  If it is me, and I had to decide today, I am taking Fields.  I think he has the potential to be a top 10 NFL QB for the next decade, but there are no guarantees. 

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4 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

I would let him be the qb and bring in some vet and probably draft impact players and bring in a good coach. Sam shows nothing indrsft someone next year.

 

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taking all the Fields/Wilson/Trevor talk away for a moment, 

the Jets owe Sam Darnold 10 million dollars in year 4 pretty much no matter what 

TL would have been super nice they couldn't have turned that down

they need a trade partner for Sam but again, 10 million dollars is hard to trade. Maybe with TL they eat some of it because they have to.

but the Jets are not the type of organization that will just flush 10 million dollars to a guy on the bench unless it's the last possible choice 

no matter how bad we want them to be this team that flushes the bad choices and doesn't engage in sunk costs, the Jets, like most NFL teams, dictate playing time by contract payouts 

 

and side note I can't believe it's taken this long for someone to say 

Start James Morgan

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Just now, RedBeardedSavage said:

Sure, bring in a vet. 

But the problem is not the quarterback. The problem is our coach is terrible and maybe 2 players on offense would get regular playing time on another team.

The quarterback wouldn't get playing time on another team, either. 

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As a rookie, Sam was rated similarly to Allen and Jackson, better than Rosen and worse than Mayfield.  Since then we've seen Jackson win the MVP and now Allen has emerged as a star. Mayfield has stayed reasonably consistent and Sam has gotten worse.  Ryan Tannehill under Joe Philbin had an avg PFF rating of 74.8.  Under Gase it was 62.5.  In Tenn, it's been over 90.  Based on all this, unless JD is in love with Fields, my vote would be to give Sam another year with a legit HC/OC combo before I trade him.  JMO...

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I think the biggest difference between those who advocate bringing Sam back vs those who want to get rid of him boils down to how one thinks the team should be built, specifically how the #2 pick should be used or leveraged.

Personally I'd like to see what Sam can do with a real coaching staff and a better supporting cast but I also fully support him competing for the QB1 spot and taking a QB in the draft anywhere but at #2. The last thing I want to see is a rush to failure by whiffing on raw QB prospect that draftniks fall in love with.  I've seen that movie too many times.

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3 hours ago, bitonti said:

taking all the Fields/Wilson/Trevor talk away for a moment, 

the Jets owe Sam Darnold 10 million dollars in year 4 pretty much no matter what 

TL would have been super nice they couldn't have turned that down

they need a trade partner for Sam but again, 10 million dollars is hard to trade. Maybe with TL they eat some of it because they have to.

but the Jets are not the type of organization that will just flush 10 million dollars to a guy on the bench unless it's the last possible choice 

no matter how bad we want them to be this team that flushes the bad choices and doesn't engage in sunk costs, the Jets, like most NFL teams, dictate playing time by contract payouts 

 

and side note I can't believe it's taken this long for someone to say 

Start James Morgan

200.gif

He's still very young. $10MM isn't hard to trade if a team - one who picks later in the draft - believes he could be their FQB; it's not a unique sentiment for many to feel a 3-year on-field tryout with the Jets isn't a fair assessment of what he could be compared to what they felt he could be on draft day. 

Just look at the Saints:

  • They signed Bridgewater to a 1 yr $12.5MM contract with every intention of him being just their backup.
  • A year later they did the same with Taysom Hill, except that was for $16.3MM. A player they signed off waivers 2.5 yrs earlier, who (preseason aside) had never thrown a TD pass before his 30th birthday, who had low-end 3rd down back stats in his limited action. 

Someone will absolutely be willing to take on Darnold's contract if he's on the trade block. Even if he ends up being nothing more than a backup for 1 year and then they cut bait, it's not much more of a financial investment than other backup QBs who don't carry his theoretical upside in talent and/or career longevity if they turn him around. FFS the Jets paid Josh McCown $10MM for 1 season and then threw another $5MM at Bridgewater ($15MM if he was the starter), and did so before the heavily hyped 2018 QB draft class (in which they held the #6 pick). 

It's nowhere near the immovable contracts for Glennon years back ($16MM under a lower cap, with far lower regard for his pie-in-the-sky upside), or the likes of Wentz now (due $25MM this coming season, including a $10MM RB in March). Darnold's is a far lower guaranteed $ investment at 1 yr $10MM guaranteed, with a May 3 deadline to pick up an option year (not guaranteed for skill) for 2022 at ~$25MM.

If the Jets want to trade him, someone will offer up a pick. The only question is what round. Is it just a mid-round pick, or does he still have round 2 (or even late round 1) trade value that some sportswriters have attested? The only reason they'd keep Darnold is the same reason they would for any tradable player: because the new HC and/or the GM values him more than the pick they'd get in return. 

EDIT: and it's $4.7MM to a new team, not $10MM. Should've known better than to just use your number without checking ;) 

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6 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

Absolutely I would bring in (and hold) an open competition for the starting QB position in 2021.

No, I would not sign a Veteran Free Agent.  I loathe the idea of recycling old veteran FA QB's, the McCowns, the Flacco's, etc.  Even Fitzmagic, whom I still hold in warm regard, isn't and wasn't an answer to our problem at QB (even if he has been better than every QB we've had since he left).

My plan would be Darnold, Draft Pick, Morgan in an open competition in 2021.

If I were the GM, I would not provide my new Head Coach with the baby blanket of a Veteran QB.  They are literal cancer.  I would force my new Coach to play a young QB and young QB's only until we found the right one.

And I continue to draft a QB every year, as high as is appropriate, until we find the Man.

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5 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Any legitimate completion is beating him out. So if the Jets bring back Darnold(bad) he’ll be the starter (really bad and doing the same bad stuff over).

Statue Joe Flacco was better than Darnold this season.

I’ve seen this Flacco argument mentioned many times. 

The 4 games Flacco started:  
 
vs AZ. 55% 195 yards  1 TD  0 INT

vs MIA 47% 185 yards 0 points  0 TD  1 INT

vs NE 72% 260 yards   3 TD  1 INT   

vs LAC 50% 205 yards  2 TD  1 INT

All Ls. 

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15 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I’ve seen this Flacco argument mentioned many times. 

The 4 games Flacco started:  
 
vs AZ. 55% 195 yards  1 TD  0 INT

vs MIA 47% 185 yards 0 points  0 TD  1 INT

vs NE 72% 260 yards   3 TD  1 INT   

vs LAC 50% 205 yards  2 TD  1 INT

All Ls. 

Flacco also stinks.

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I don't need anything more than a competent backup in case Sam gets hurt in 2021. 

If we draft Sewell at 2 and can sign Allan Robinson (or Godwin or Golladay - a #1) then I want Sam to have every rep in training camp, every meaningful snap in preseason, everything.  It is do or die, make or brake Sam Darnold's Jets career.  No excuses. 

I have stated before, I would pick up Sam's 5th year option no matter what this offseason.  I never want to be caught without a competent QB on the roster.  If Sam lights it up in 2021, make him play out most or all of 2022 under the option. If he puts together 24+ games worthy of a $100m+ contract then give it to him then with a big smile. If he is not good enough in 2021 then we know we have to draft a QB in 2022 and Sam will spend 2022 has the Vet backup to our new rookie under his 5th year option.  

 

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5 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

I leave this decision up to the next coach. Personally, I’d prefer to bring in a veteran to at least compete with Sam. With the benefit of hindsight, it seems that he did his best at USC when he had to win the job as the starter. Once given the job, I don’t think he works hard at it. He’s a gifted athlete who was the most athletic guy on the field most of his life. He simply has never had to put in the type of off the field work you need to succeed in the NFL. I don’t know if he’s capable of doing it. But this is where the rubber meets the road. He either puts in a full off-season working on the mental part of the game and his mechanics to truly try to save his career or he is destined to be what he has been the past few years. 
 

It is interesting to compare Josh Allen to Sam. At the end of last season Josh Allen had the worst completion percentage of any quarterback I believe. This year he’s at or near the top. Why? Because he worked very hard to improve himself mechanically and to be a student of the game. I just question whether Sam has the heart to do the work that is necessary to become a very good NFL quarterback. Has he really ever had to work for anything in his life? I mean really work? He was handed the quarterback job in high school after the quarterback was injured. He cruised on his natural athletic ability to a scholarship to USC and parlayed a comeback performance against Penn State in the Rose Bowl into a top five draft pick status.  To be cruelly honest, at this point Sam is about the equivalent of a well behaved Dwayne Haskins. Only Sam can change the narrative. I just question how hard he is willing to work to do so.

I agree it should be up to the next HC to decide.

As for your 2nd comment regarding Darnold's work ethic. I am not sure any of us can truly say. All we know is Darnold and Allen workout in the offseason with Jordan Palmer. There are enough articles out there regarding this and of course Palmer is going to speak highly of his clients.

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I get it, there's a lot of you that want to get rid of Sam.  Hell, I was there as well as long as we could replace him with Trevor Lawrence.

But since that pipe dream is gone and looking at the other choices available, I say pad the team with more capable players and roll with Sam in 2021.

If the same results, let's see what's available come 2022.

Because it's gotta be better than Jameisisis or Justin Fields.

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