For the 35% who want to keep Sam, would you...

[peekskill68]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Absolutely I would bring in (and hold) an open competition for the starting QB position in 2021.

No, I would not sign a Veteran Free Agent.  I loathe the idea of recycling old veteran FA QB's, the McCowns, the Flacco's, etc.  Even Fitzmagic, whom I still hold in warm regard, isn't and wasn't an answer to our problem at QB (even if he has been better than every QB we've had since he left).

My plan would be Darnold, Draft Pick, Morgan in an open competition in 2021.

If I were the GM, I would not provide my new Head Coach with the baby blanket of a Veteran QB.  They are literal cancer.  I would force my new Coach to play a young QB and young QB's only until we found the right one.

And I continue to draft a QB every year, as high as is appropriate, until we find the Man.

Agree, with the exception of the "veteran QB = cancer" for two reasons.  1) You could make the case that in spite of Gase, McCown helped Sam a great deal his rookie year, given his regression in years 2 and 3. 2) 2021 is likely a 2nd rebuilding year for JD and the roster. With a Flacco or even a Fitz, who are both competent, if Darnold fails with a new HC/OC, you can still evaluate/develop the OL and skill players with a vet who can at least competently manage the offense.

[genot]

3 hours ago, Augustiniak said:

exactly.  if flacco or someone like bridgewater had played all season the jets would have 4-6 wins and nobody would have been talking tank all year.  darnold is who he is, a very below average starter who is perceived to have a higher ceiling only because of his draft position.  douglas will draft a new qb at 2 or in a trade down.  also i can't imagine any new HC would want darnold, especially any DC who schemed against him and saw all his flaws.

Darnold will be the QB next year, and the offense will look completely different. Herndon will actually be involved in the passing game. Wide receivers will be moved around pre snap to help them get open and make it more difficult to slow them down at the line. Scheming counts. Gase will never be a HC again because he was way to stubborn and it hurt the Dolphins. And it hurt the Jet's. Especially Darnold

[Jetster]

Where are you guys getting 10 million for Sam Darnold in 2021? Over the cap has his total salary for 2021 at $5.5 million. 
Thats a freaking steal to see if a new coach & better surrounding Oline & weapons can salvage him. 
He’s coming back, but that doesn’t mean JD will ignore QBs in this draft at Seattle or #34 depending on who slips? 

[Gangrene]

28 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Where are you guys getting 10 million for Sam Darnold in 2021? Over the cap has his total salary for 2021 at $5.5 million. 
Thats a freaking steal to see if a new coach & better surrounding Oline & weapons can salvage him. 
He’s coming back, but they doesn’t mean JD will ignore QBs in this draft at Seattle or #34 depending on who slips? 

He has a guaranteed salary of 4.6 Million. His prorated cap cost is 5 Million.

His 2021 cap number is 9.79M    He's reasonable NFL value to any team that trades for him a 5 Million reclamation project. In a post June 1st trade scenario the  Jets get hit with 5M in the prorated cap cost.

At 10 million in 2021 in NFL terms, Darnold still is reasonable value...when he is not throwing the ball to the other team .

I imagine Josh Allen will sign a new deal four times what Sam Darnold is getting paid in 2021.

[Sonny Werblin]

58 minutes ago, C Mart said:

I agree it should be up to the next HC to decide.

As for your 2nd comment regarding Darnold's work ethic. I am not sure any of us can truly say. All we know is Darnold and Allen workout in the offseason with Jordan Palmer. There are enough articles out there regarding this and of course Palmer is going to speak highly of his clients.

There is a ton of work to be put in other than under the direct guidance of Jordan Palmer. If Sam is working as hard as Allen and this season is the result, he is a lost cause.

[jetstream23]

7 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

If the Jets can't get decent trade value for Sam and decide to retain him then absolutely.  I'd bring in someone to compete with him.  I also might be one of the few people who would consider drafting a QB at #2 AND keeping Darnold.  The entire idea that you undermine a QB by bringing in solid competition is ridiculous.  A rookie can fight to supplant a veteran and sometimes the veteran holds off the rookie.

Any QB worth his salt shouldn't have a problem with competition, if anything it should elevate their game and serve as positive pressure.  You find out a lot about your QBs..... Look at what brining in Tannehill did with Mariota, Hurts with Wentz, Rudolph with Roethlisberger, Alex Smith with Haskins, etc.  You get all sorts of different results but the cream usually rises to the top.

[Sonny Werblin]

19 minutes ago, Gangrene said:

He has a guaranteed salary of 4.6 Million. His prorated cap cost is 5 Million.

His 2021 cap number is 9.79M    He's reasonable NFL value to any team that trades for him a 5 Million reclamation project. In a post June 1st trade scenario the  Jets get hit with 5M in the prorated cap cost.

At 10 million in 2021 in NFL terms, Darnold still is reasonable value...when he is not throwing the ball to the other team .

I imagine Josh Allen will sign a new deal four times what Sam Darnold is getting paid in 2021.

Totally agree. The Raiders paid Marcus Mariota $9.1 million this season and unless they waive him will be paying him $10.7 million next season. 

[Sperm Edwards]

52 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Where are you guys getting 10 million for Sam Darnold in 2021? Over the cap has his total salary for 2021 at $5.5 million. 
Thats a freaking steal to see if a new coach & better surrounding Oline & weapons can salvage him. 
He’s coming back, but that doesn’t mean JD will ignore QBs in this draft at Seattle or #34 depending on who slips? 

I should have known better than to take Bit's word for it & checked it out before responding lol.

A new team would be absorbing his new 2021 money, not his full Jets cap hit (which is what's ~$10MM). $5MM of it is a sunk cost whether he's here or not. 

It's ~$4.7MM really. $3.8MM roster bonus + $0.9MM salary. The rest is amortized signing bonus that wouldn't apply to a new team.

[Icer]

1 hour ago, C Mart said:

I’ve seen this Flacco argument mentioned many times. 

The 4 games Flacco started:  
 
vs AZ. 55% 195 yards  1 TD  0 INT

vs MIA 47% 185 yards 0 points  0 TD  1 INT

vs NE 72% 260 yards   3 TD  1 INT   

vs LAC 50% 205 yards  2 TD  1 INT

All Ls. 

Almost as many 200 yard games as Darnold in the other 12 this season and nearly as many TDs

[RedBeardedSavage]

1 hour ago, peebag said:

I get it, there's a lot of you that want to get rid of Sam.  Hell, I was there as well as long as we could replace him with Trevor Lawrence.

But since that pipe dream is gone and looking at the other choices available, I say pad the team with more capable players and roll with Sam in 2021.

If the same results, let's see what's available come 2022.

Because it's gotta be better than Jameisisis or Justin Fields.

This is clearly the most rational argument. Our roster is the worst in the league. 

Sam might not be the answer; but to take another quarterback right now not named Trevor Lawrence is to repeat what we did with Darnold.

[Beerfish]

I'll be glad to move on but only if we get someone tangibly better, otherwise by all means bring in competition for him but tossing him just because we are mad at him is poor asset management.

[bealeb319]

I am for keeping darnold I 100 percent think we need to draft a QB in round 3-4 and let them compete. I would also consider retaining flacco who looked half decent with our team. I would not even guarentee darnold the starting position.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet_Engine1]

9 hours ago, C Mart said:

I’ve seen this Flacco argument mentioned many times. 

The 4 games Flacco started:  
 
vs AZ. 55% 195 yards  1 TD  0 INT

vs MIA 47% 185 yards 0 points  0 TD  1 INT

vs NE 72% 260 yards   3 TD  1 INT   

vs LAC 50% 205 yards  2 TD  1 INT

All Ls. 

I watched those games, did you? 

 

Darnold was OUTPLAYED by the rotting Corpse of Joe Flacco.

[Jet_Engine1]

14 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

I am for keeping darnold I 100 percent think we need to draft a QB in round 3-4 and let them compete. I would also consider retaining flacco who looked half decent with our team. I would not even guarentee darnold the starting position.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

You mean along with Morgan? LOL

 

Pointless.

 

Sam is garbage now. Keeping him would be the height of absurdity. 

[Jet_Engine1]

7 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I'll be glad to move on but only if we get someone tangibly better, otherwise by all means bring in competition for him but tossing him just because we are mad at him is poor asset management.

We're "tossing him " so we don't have to pay him stupid money for poor performance. And we're not "Mad" at him, he just sucks and were tired of years of suck at the QB position. 

[ChuckkieB]

If the Jets don't LOVE a QB at #2, I'm fine with giving Sam one more year with a new and hopefully improved coaching staff and an upgrade in personnel around him. In either scenario, JD has to hit a few home runs in this draft. 

[Mike135]

No legit competition.  If he fails next year, it's better to fail bigly.

Makes drafting a rookie in 2022 easier.

[Charlie Brown]

17 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

@PointdexterNice query...

I think that JD had a plan and it involved "over-drafting" James Morgan @ QB last year!

IMO JD couldn't bank on Darnold turning it around and it is why Morgan was "mysteriously" brought in here as a QB and was never ONCE even mentioned yet as a potential player in the worst season in Jets history!. 

While Morgan is definitely a project he is said to have a cannon arm and can over time effectively play the position. Think Nick Foles here....

My guess is that JD wants to retain Darnold for one more year and then if he is no good allow a competition between Morgan, a rookie 22 QB draft pick and a potential veteran battle it out.

That is what I think it is going to happen and I think will work... and at the least it is a real plan but will be of course be contingent on what the new HC wants to do.

Gase being an absolute disaster disrupted the plan in part but the basics are still there......

So Sam really gets one more year, the Jets keep their internal promise to him and still make moves forward regardless if turns out as it does now that Darnold is NOT the chosen one!

[Snell41]

Its not that I love Sam or even like him, I just don’t like the QB prospects in this draft. If we can trade down from 2 and get a 1st in next years draft we’ll have 3 picks and a whole lot of options.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[Jet hustle]

10 hours ago, C Mart said:

I’ve seen this Flacco argument mentioned many times. 

The 4 games Flacco started:  
 
vs AZ. 55% 195 yards  1 TD  0 INT

vs MIA 47% 185 yards 0 points  0 TD  1 INT

vs NE 72% 260 yards   3 TD  1 INT   

vs LAC 50% 205 yards  2 TD  1 INT

All Ls. 

Flacco > Darnold

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

We're "tossing him " so we don't have to pay him stupid money for poor performance. And we're not "Mad" at him, he just sucks and were tired of years of suck at the QB position. 

We have to pay him next year do we?  I don't think we do.

[slimjasi]

12 hours ago, C Mart said:

I’ve seen this Flacco argument mentioned many times. 

The 4 games Flacco started:  
 
vs AZ. 55% 195 yards  1 TD  0 INT

vs MIA 47% 185 yards 0 points  0 TD  1 INT

vs NE 72% 260 yards   3 TD  1 INT   

vs LAC 50% 205 yards  2 TD  1 INT

All Ls. 

Ok but that NE game is the best QB play we have had all season - even with his one ridiculous interception 

[TuscanyTile2]

18 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

Im in the 35% camp but I would bring in Trey Lance (at 1.02) if JD believes in him.  He might need polishing (and some time to sit and learn) but he’d have that luxury if we bring Sam back next year. I know Lance is a boom/bust type pick but I don’t see how we’re going to win a Super Bowl if we don’t hit on a QB with very high upside.  

I’m far less convinced right now about Zach Wilson (looks too frail) and Justin Fields (just not a believer) but there’s a lot of time between now and the draft so things could change.

Oh and as far as a veteran, Flacco (or someone of that ilk) is fine.  Just someone not too expensive.  If Sam doesn’t pan out I’d rather we sh*t the bed than put a band aid on the problem and win some meaningless games that will hurt next year’s draft position. Plus maybe Lance will be ready for some games by like week 12. 

[doitny]

20 hours ago, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

but didnt we just do that with Flacco.

and Sam lost that comp cause Flacco looked much better

[doitny]

3 hours ago, Charlie Brown said:

@PointdexterNice query...

I think that JD had a plan and it involved "over-drafting" James Morgan @ QB last year!

IMO JD couldn't bank on Darnold turning it around and it is why Morgan was "mysteriously" brought in here as a QB and was never ONCE even mentioned yet as a potential player in the worst season in Jets history!. 

While Morgan is definitely a project he is said to have a cannon arm and can over time effectively play the position. Think Nick Foles here....

My guess is that JD wants to retain Darnold for one more year and then if he is no good allow a competition between Morgan, a rookie 22 QB draft pick and a potential veteran battle it out.

That is what I think it is going to happen and I think will work... and at the least it is a real plan but will be of course be contingent on what the new HC wants to do.

Gase being an absolute disaster disrupted the plan in part but the basics are still there......

So Sam really gets one more year, the Jets keep their internal promise to him and still make moves forward regardless if turns out as it does now that Darnold is NOT the chosen one!

where the hell was Morgan? from what i heard after half the year on the practice squad he still wasnt ready to back up Flacco when Sam was out. 

sounds to me JD either struck out or Morgan is a Big project. 

im going to say he struck out. if you cant grasp being an backup NFL OB from the practice squad than hes not going to make the team

[JETSY14]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

You mean along with Morgan? LOL

 

Pointless.

 

Sam is garbage now. Keeping him would be the height of absurdity. 

As Mr. Woody is the epitome of absurdity

[Wonderboy]

15 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

He's still very young. $10MM isn't hard to trade if a team - one who picks later in the draft - believes he could be their FQB; it's not a unique sentiment for many to feel a 3-year on-field tryout with the Jets isn't a fair assessment of what he could be compared to what they felt he could be on draft day. 

Just look at the Saints:

• They signed Bridgewater to a 1 yr $12.5MM contract with every intention of him being just their backup.
• A year later they did the same with Taysom Hill, except that was for $16.3MM. A player they signed off waivers 2.5 yrs earlier, who (preseason aside) had never thrown a TD pass before his 30th birthday, who had low-end 3rd down back stats in his limited action. 

Someone will absolutely be willing to take on Darnold's contract if he's on the trade block. Even if he ends up being nothing more than a backup for 1 year and then they cut bait, it's not much more of a financial investment than other backup QBs who don't carry his theoretical upside in talent and/or career longevity if they turn him around. FFS the Jets paid Josh McCown $10MM for 1 season and then threw another $5MM at Bridgewater ($15MM if he was the starter), and did so before the heavily hyped 2018 QB draft class (in which they held the #6 pick). 

It's nowhere near the immovable contracts for Glennon years back ($16MM under a lower cap, with far lower regard for his pie-in-the-sky upside), or the likes of Wentz now (due $25MM this coming season, including a $10MM RB in March). Darnold's is a far lower guaranteed $ investment at 1 yr $10MM guaranteed, with a May 3 deadline to pick up an option year (not guaranteed for skill) for 2022 at ~$25MM.

If the Jets want to trade him, someone will offer up a pick. The only question is what round. Is it just a mid-round pick, or does he still have round 2 (or even late round 1) trade value that some sportswriters have attested? The only reason they'd keep Darnold is the same reason they would for any tradable player: because the new HC and/or the GM values him more than the pick they'd get in return. 

EDIT: and it's $4.7MM to a new team, not $10MM. Should've known better than to just use your number without checking  

Well when you put it all out there - trade him.

[Wonderboy]

5 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

We're "tossing him " so we don't have to pay him stupid money for poor performance. And we're not "Mad" at him, he just sucks and were tired of years of suck at the QB position. 

Speak for yourself. I am irate. I was all gung ho when we drafted Darnold. Totally was oblivious to his lack of development.  Fed into the zillion excuses. It really began hitting me late last year that he’s just over his head and his ceiling is probably nothing more than a backup. Nothing wrong with that.  It’s time to roll the dice and see if we can strike gold. We are @ #2 which is a prime position. Someone noted we haven’t picked this high in over 20 years. We will be kicking ourselves in the head if we trade back or take Sewell over Fields or Wilson and they become stars in the NFL. You take the calculated risk.  Darnold is not even on the same level as our other under achieving QB’s: Todd, O’Brien, Sanchez, Pennington. 

[Sperm Edwards]

2 hours ago, Wonderboy said:

Well when you put it all out there - trade him.

Keep him only if you believe he could still be at least 80-90% of what you hoped he could become when he was taken #3 on draft day. Trade him otherwise; you don’t intentionally rent a day 2 pick for 1 season at another $5MM just to be camp competition for the guy you actually hope will take over. 

[Wonderboy]

58 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keep him only if you believe he could still be at least 80-90% of what you hoped he could become when he was taken #3 on draft day. Trade him otherwise; you don’t intentionally rent a day 2 pick for 1 season at another $5MM just to be camp competition for the guy you actually hope will take over. 

What about 8-9% 

[Warfish]

21 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The quarterback wouldn't get playing time on another team, either. 

That seems to contradict all the "just trade Sam, we'll get a 2nd round pick" theorcrafters, don't it?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Keep him only if you believe he could still be at least 80-90% of what you hoped he could become when he was taken #3 on draft day. Trade him otherwise; you don’t intentionally rent a day 2 pick for 1 season at another $5MM just to be camp competition for the guy you actually hope will take over. 

If we're stuck owing him $10 mil regardless, and he's that bad (so who is trading anything of value for a horrible $10 million QB), why not have him back?

He can backup as needed.  He can compete with whomever the "other" QB we get is.  And small tho the chance may be, he might be better than our flip flopping fanbase thinks once under a decent non-Gase Head Coach.  I don't think we can eliminate the "Gase Effect" from eval. of Sam.  Gase murders QB's talent and careers.

Seems like a very "cut off nose to spite face" thing to trade Sam for little gain.  Makes angry fans (most of whom were huge Sam hype people, lol) feel better, doesn't make the team better.

[GKnight83]

On 12/30/2020 at 7:00 AM, Pointdexter said:

bring in legitimate competition for him? If so, would you sign a free agent vet or hedge your bet through the draft?

For the 65% who want Sam gone, would you be more accepting of him remaining here in 2021 if we brought in legit competition (i.e. Minshew, Wentz, or draft pick). And would your preference be vet or draft pick for that comp?

Yes, I think it would be wise to bring in a vet who could seriously challenge Darnold.

[slats]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If we're stuck owing him $10 mil regardless, and he's that bad (so who is trading anything of value for a horrible $10 million QB), why not have him back?

He can backup as needed.  He can compete with whomever the "other" QB we get is.  And small tho the chance may be, he might be better than our flip flopping fanbase thinks once under a decent non-Gase Head Coach.  I don't think we can eliminate the "Gase Effect" from eval. of Sam.  Gase murders QB's talent and careers.

Seems like a very "cut off nose to spite face" thing to trade Sam for little gain.  Makes angry fans (most of whom were huge Sam hype people, lol) feel better, doesn't make the team better.

The Jets wouldn't owe him anything if they traded him before his roster bonus is due, but he would still count for $5M in dead money. That roster bonus is the bulk of his 2021 compensation at $3.8M, the rest is a $920k salary - which makes him easy to keep or trade once that's paid. 

Joe Douglas will hear offers for Darnold, and he'll weigh them against where he values Darnold -and the upcoming draft class- before pulling the trigger. If he and the new head coach decide early on that they will be settling on a QB at #2 overall, regardless, the move will be to trade Sam. If they're listening to offers for the pick right up until they're on the clock, they'll probably hold off - unless they get blown away with an offer. If they're determined to trade the pick for the best package, Sam almost certainly stays unless, again, they're just blown away with an offer. 

[Matt39]

I mean, is the object to win? Or to get Darnold another season? There will be guys available who are better than Darnold if they decide to not draft a QB at 2.