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8 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I can't wait until Fields plays against Bama, has a bad game and everyone here is suddenly convinced we should take a safety at #2.

Alabama outscores people. Not like they shut down ND yesterday.Their defense has some talent, but expect a high-scoring championship. The under/over in the SEC championship was 70 something and that was done early in the 3rd quarter. Was over 90 points scored.

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I get whiplash from you guys. So reactionary. As I’ve said Lawrence’s body of work makes him #1 in my book. Fields is also a ridiculously good and just needs more reps/good coaching since he’s played

I can't wait until Fields plays against Bama, has a bad game and everyone here is suddenly convinced we should take a safety at #2.

Fields is the better QB. I think his skill set and talents are better suited for the NFL. He is a bigger Russel Wilson and I see some Mahomes in him too.

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32 minutes ago, JiF said:

I'm sorry that I'm not interested in breaking down a TD pass in which JF recognized 1 on 1 coverage of 5'9 corner vs. 6'6 TE and put the ball so damn perfect that he even surprised his TE as an example of how he's really not good and actually a poor decision maker which will not translate to the NFL because he didnt throw to a crossing route being run short of the goalline on 3rd down instead of recognizing a mismatch and throwing a TD pass.

lmfao

 

You are not watching the game with any kind of objectivity. Based on what you’ve explained to me thus far, Justin Fields has never had a bad game and any time his production suffered...it’s been others fault.

at least I am objective about Darnold being broken. I just like the chances of him being fixed more then these overrated college kids.

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1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

i really wish i could watch these throws at face value like you. unfortunately ive seen too many young QB's get swallowed up by the NFL making the same exact throws. i acknowledge that just fields had a great college game last night...but thats about it. if you decide you want to evaluate his play in regards to how it translated to the NFL...we can pick this up. enjoy running naked through the streets :)

Career* fixed that for ya 👍

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17 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

You are not watching the game with any kind of objectivity. Based on what you’ve explained to me thus far, Justin Fields has never had a bad game and any time his production suffered...it’s been others fault.

at least I am objective about Darnold being broken. I just like the chances of him being fixed more then these overrated college kids.

I never said anything of the sort. JF was bad vs. Northwestern.  I think there were reasons why but he played bad. It was his 1 outlier.

So you're not being objective.  You're hoping Darnold pans out miraculously, therefore seeing what you want to see in Fields. 

lol

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1 minute ago, TheMo said:

@JiF is losing his sh*t because this board literally is the opposite of a logic course lol. On one hand you have people blathering on about how it’s just one game and clean pocket and anything that comes to mind. On the other hand they are touting a kid from BYU who has a whole season of mediocre tape from last year as the better option. 
 

He’s actually not a fields homer. Him and I have discussed in the draft forum about this. He’s just not willing to go along with the ridiculous takes people have on the guy. 
 

Fields is a great prospect. Lawrence is better, courtesy of more reps. 

Thank you.  I even said last night in the game thread, I'm not sure I wouldnt take a huge haul trade down.  I'm not dead set yet what I want really but it's hard for me to imagine passing on Fields. 

I've never argued that Fields was better than Lawrence.  I've argued, Lawrence is not generational, that there are flaws in his game and that Justin Fields does some things better and the gap is nowhere near as large as people make it out to be.  Not even close.  I think last night proved my point, if you disagree, fine but dont bring some weak sh*t like he threw to the wrong guy on a TD pass or that he wasnt impressive last night.  I cant hear that sh*t.

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2 minutes ago, TheMo said:

@JiF is losing his sh*t because this board literally is the opposite of a logic course lol. On one hand you have people blathering on about how it’s just one game and clean pocket and anything that comes to mind. On the other hand they are touting a kid from BYU who has a whole season of mediocre tape from last year as the better option. 
 

He’s actually not a fields homer. Him and I have discussed in the draft forum about this. He’s just not willing to go along with the ridiculous takes people have on the guy. 
 

Fields is a great prospect. Lawrence is better, courtesy of more reps. 

Respectfully disagree, take both QBs performances off the table.. you cannot look at the way Trevor was moping and being pampered On the sidelines and the way Justin, after getting hurt and still balling out, riding a bike on the sidelines didn’t raise some concern about Trevors abilities to overcome adversity. 

 

What do you think will happen next season when Trevor is getting wrecked in Jacksonville? You think he will magically find his balls??? Big red flag to me 🤷‍♂️

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13 minutes ago, oatmeal said:

Respectfully disagree, take both QBs performances off the table.. you cannot look at the way Trevor was moping and being pampered On the sidelines and the way Justin, after getting hurt and still balling out, riding a bike on the sidelines didn’t raise some concern about Trevors abilities to overcome adversity. 

 

What do you think will happen next season when Trevor is getting wrecked in Jacksonville? You think he will magically find his balls??? Big red flag to me 🤷‍♂️

I tend not to delve too much into the personality/psych stuff. I think it’s fraught with bad takes. I used to but look back at Herbert’s scouting reports and that’s one of the biggest negatives. Lots of babble about his mental makeup and leadership. Don’t want to super derail this thread, but again I’ll take Lawrence’s big sample size to field’s smaller sample. I think the reps are super important to future success simply from a training standpoint and help reduce draft misses by eliminating outliers in performance. It’s why I’ma proponent of drafting fields and having him sit to get more reps in. Darnold can keep the seat warm as we build a system. If Sam plays well we end up with a Brees/Rivers situation, oh the horror lol. 

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It’s amazing to me some of you can go years and some cases decades watching football and still don’t understand the game. Clemsons o line was knocked off the ball every play. Lawrence was under heavy pressure all night and still made good decisions and accurate passes and threw for 400 yards. Vintage Tom Brady loses that game.

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1 hour ago, TheMo said:

Hmmm ya except Fields has been a great QB through the seasons he’s played. People obsessed over his 3 less than stellar games claiming they were the real indicators because of competition etc. now he throttled the #3 team and people want to discount that as one game. The goal posts keep moving so people can avoid the cognitive dissonance of admitting that maybe their assessment was off.

Would people be as excited about Fields today if he was mediocre yesterday?

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3 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Would people be as excited about Fields today if he was mediocre yesterday?

To claim that recency bias is why he is considered a great prospect is flawed. At least for me. I’ve been a pretty big proponent of looking at his whole body of work through the season. 
 

There is no sense in debating the broader forum population’s thoughts on this. Many posters either are entrenched in a thought and will not move off of it even when presented with data. Furthermore they are to your point moved by what happened two seconds ago. I just think it’s silly to say that people are being moved by Fields due to one good game. In fact his bad games are generally the outlier not the other way around. 

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1 hour ago, k-met57 said:

You are not watching the game with any kind of objectivity. Based on what you’ve explained to me thus far, Justin Fields has never had a bad game and any time his production suffered...it’s been others fault.

at least I am objective about Darnold being broken. I just like the chances of him being fixed more then these overrated college kids.

Fields has had 1 bad game and 1 mediocre game  and its been for the same reason TL had a bad game last night , they were outcoached and manhandled on the defensive side of the ball . It may be time for some here to recognize that Northwestern and Indiana are no jokes and that maybe the ACC is a bit overrated.

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41 minutes ago, Morrissey said:

It’s amazing to me some of you can go years and some cases decades watching football and still don’t understand the game. Clemsons o line was knocked off the ball every play. Lawrence was under heavy pressure all night and still made good decisions and accurate passes and threw for 400 yards. Vintage Tom Brady loses that game.

I think you need to look in the mirror and stop talking sh*t about others lack of knowledge.  I don't think you know nearly as much about X's and O's as you like to project 

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1 hour ago, Morrissey said:

It’s amazing to me some of you can go years and some cases decades watching football and still don’t understand the game. Clemsons o line was knocked off the ball every play. Lawrence was under heavy pressure all night and still made good decisions and accurate passes and threw for 400 yards. Vintage Tom Brady loses that game.

Wut?  He fumbled 3 times threw one pick and threw another horrible pass that should have been picked.

When playing teams with similar talent his last three playoff games he has been okay at best and lousy in one of the games.

He is going to go to a bad NFL team how is he going to fair?

The argument has never been if he is the #1 Qb prospect in this draft, it has been that he is some can;t miss generational awesome QB worth tanking for.

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8 hours ago, DJF71 said:

He also had the blocking tonight that Darnold has seen his whole career. 

Yeah, and that is how TL looks when he is isn't on a superior team. Makes one wonder if he makes those around him better or if he's fortunate to have always been on the superior team.

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13 hours ago, CTJetsFan said:

Lawrence was less than impressive tonight.

But on a "bad night" where he was under siege,  he was 33 of 48 for 400 yards and 2 TDs (1 FL  and 1 INT)

Stats don't tell the story. He fumbled 3 times. Also, should have had another pick when he threw it right to the Ohio State defensive back. Sub par performance all around. Ohio State D had a lot to do with it, cutting down on his time to throw. That's what the NFL will be like.

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40 minutes ago, Greensleeves said:

Stats don't tell the story. He fumbled 3 times. Also, should have had another pick when he threw it right to the Ohio State defensive back. Sub par performance all around. Ohio State D had a lot to do with it, cutting down on his time to throw. That's what the NFL will be like.

You"we right. I guess my point was, on what was a really bad night for Lawrence, he was just as good as Sam on one of his better nights.

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4 hours ago, 56mehl56 said:

But it also exposed a flaw with TL , he's not best suited to a downfield passing game. When he's behind which Clemson rarely is , he has a harder time because Clemson's offense is so predicated on YAC.

Sure he compiled 400 yards passing but OSU was giving him the underneath throws when they were up by a large margin.  I saw plenty of times last night where TL threw off his back foot , didn't make reads and had poor decision making. You claim it was all due to the OSU Dline dominating Clemson, but its funny how that excuse wasn't valid for Fields against either Indiana or NW. 

I was seriously underwhelmed by Lawrence and have been almost every time I see him. I am not sure he is better than Darnold coming out. I would actually like to know why he is so highly regarded: his not super accurate, not particularly good deep and his last three playoff games have all been super average. Is it just because he won the National CHampionship as a true freshman?

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5 hours ago, JiF said:

Thank you.  I even said last night in the game thread, I'm not sure I wouldnt take a huge haul trade down.  I'm not dead set yet what I want really but it's hard for me to imagine passing on Fields. 

I've never argued that Fields was better than Lawrence.  I've argued, Lawrence is not generational, that there are flaws in his game and that Justin Fields does some things better and the gap is nowhere near as large as people make it out to be.  Not even close.  I think last night proved my point, if you disagree, fine but dont bring some weak sh*t like he threw to the wrong guy on a TD pass or that he wasnt impressive last night.  I cant hear that sh*t.

While I don't watch a ton of college ball to me a QB is great when he proves it in the NFL and not before.. Some here were ready to put TL in the HOF before he even played a Game. Funny how the so called Goats were 3rd and 6th rd picks if your choice was Montana or Brady.. Like Steve Young said about throwing to receivers, there is college open and NFL open and many young QB's find that out fast.. 

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46 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

While I don't watch a ton of college ball to me a QB is great when he proves it in the NFL and not before.. Some here were ready to put TL in the HOF before he even played a Game. Funny how the so called Goats were 3rd and 6th rd picks if your choice was Montana or Brady.. Like Steve Young said about throwing to receivers, there is college open and NFL open and many young QB's find that out fast.. 

I watch more college then pros, I've never seen a more over hyped prospect in my life.  It's wild.  You'd think he's Mike Vick with Manning's brain but really he's just Justin Herbert 2.0 who played at a better program.  And if he can repeat Herbert's success, that's awesome, obviously....but generational?  No.

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which guys do u think he threw to? there are a ton of examples like this from last night. lets not pretend he killed it.
 
justin_fields1.thumb.jpg.bbbcbd01fcca09d1c62b4e599cf125db.jpg


People keep talking about this. So he saw an open guy and threw it somewhere else? No. He threw a strike to a guy that was covered well. That was a heck of a throw and accuracy.
The easier throw to the open guy IF he saw him but he didn’t.

Coaches can teach him to scan the field better. Than can’t teach him accuracy and glad he showed he can make tough throws.


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10 minutes ago, prime21 said:

 


People keep talking about this. So he saw an open guy and threw it somewhere else? No. He threw a strike to a guy that was covered well. That was a heck of a throw and accuracy.
The easier throw to the open guy IF he saw him but he didn’t.

Coaches can teach him to scan the field better. Than can’t teach him accuracy and glad he showed he can make tough throws.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

What the still doesnt show (and I cant find a video/gif of just this play) but he had 2 WR's lined up wide to the right, 2 TE's on the left side of the line.  His first progression was on the right side of the field, looks like either WR were options 1/2, as he comes across the middle of the field to his next progressions, he saw a LB'er and Safety playing the middle of the endzone, TE he supposedly missed that was running right into their zone as they were bearing down, so he might have saw him but didnt think it was the right play because that drag route he was running created 1 on 1 to the outside with a 5'9 corner vs. a 6'6 TE. 

This is silliness.  It was a TD and we are questioning the decision.  It's like saying we didnt win the Super Bowl well enough.

Could you imagine if Sam made this play?  OMG, this play would collectively wet themselves. 

 

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22 minutes ago, JiF said:

What the still doesnt show (and I cant find a video/gif of just this play) but he had 2 WR's lined up wide to the right, 2 TE's on the left side of the line.  His first progression was on the right side of the field, looks like either WR were options 1/2, as he comes across the middle of the field to his next progressions, he saw a LB'er and Safety playing the middle of the endzone, TE he supposedly missed that was running right into their zone as they were bearing down, so he might have saw him but didnt think it was the right play because that drag route he was running created 1 on 1 to the outside with a 5'9 corner vs. a 6'6 TE. 

This is silliness.  It was a TD and we are questioning the decision.  It's like saying we didnt win the Super Bowl well enough.

Could you imagine if Sam made this play?  OMG, this play would collectively wet themselves. 

 

I am just wondering what happened when we pass on him and he goes to Atlanta....you are going to be a sad dude.

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7 hours ago, JiF said:

Thank you.  I even said last night in the game thread, I'm not sure I wouldnt take a huge haul trade down.  I'm not dead set yet what I want really but it's hard for me to imagine passing on Fields. 

 

14 minutes ago, k-met57 said:

I am just wondering what happened when we pass on him and he goes to Atlanta....you are going to be a sad dude.

You can try and make it seem like I have some type of narrative or allegiance or alliance or anything of the sort to any one player but I dont.  I'm not an Ohio St. fan, in fact, they make my skin crawl.  I hate the Georgia Bulldogs with a passion.  I have every reason to hate on Fields but why would I?  He's an incredible player/prospect and he could possibly play for the Jets.  Or the Jets could trade down, not sure what I want, both are exciting proposition.  I'll get back to you and let you know what I decide sometime soon and I will be sure to tell you how I plan on responding if I dont get my way.

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7 hours ago, JiF said:

d the gap is nowhere near as large as people make it out to be.  Not even close.

this is the dealio.

and its why all the unmanly whingeing when we won a football game was so disgusting.

JN is schitt at talent eval. 

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1 hour ago, prime21 said:

 


People keep talking about this. So he saw an open guy and threw it somewhere else? No. He threw a strike to a guy that was covered well. That was a heck of a throw and accuracy.
The easier throw to the open guy IF he saw him but he didn’t.

Coaches can teach him to scan the field better. Than can’t teach him accuracy and glad he showed he can make tough throws.

 

good post

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I haven’t scrutinized tl but what I have seen wasn’t particularly impressive generational talent. I still haven’t heard specifics about what makes him so great 

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17 hours ago, slimjasi said:

The fan base is gonna fall in love with this guy quickly.

It’s gonna take some big balls to pass on this guy and start Darnold next year. 

Well said man.  And I just don't see it happening. I would be very surprised if we pass the QB's at the top and grab the LT or Jamar Chase or something.  If JD trades back and gets a massive haul, which he could for either TLaw or Fields, it would be reeeeeeaaaally ballsy to be sure. 

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11 hours ago, Morrissey said:

It’s amazing to me some of you can go years and some cases decades watching football and still don’t understand the game. Clemsons o line was knocked off the ball every play. Lawrence was under heavy pressure all night and still made good decisions and accurate passes and threw for 400 yards. Vintage Tom Brady loses that game.

If this board was around in the late 90's Danny Wuerfel would be considered a better NFL prospect than Peyton Manning.

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